11-12-09 06:07 PM
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  1. Hankster's Avatar
    The average cost for an ETF is $150, but Verizon is now changing it to $350.

    Yeah, I WILL NOT be renewing any phone with VZ considering every phone gets an upgrade every 12 months. $350...no thanks. What a scam.

    Verizon's Steep Early-Termination Fees | John Paczkowski | Digital Daily | AllThingsD

    Oh, and for those who think it's VZ just trying to get their money back due to the lower price attached to the contract...

    "So it’s certainly understandable that Verizon and other carriers want to protect the subsidies they dole out for these new smart phones. And as noted earlier, Verizon’s new ETF drops by $10 each month a subscriber remains under contract. But at this rate, subscribers are still bound to pay a $110 termination fee in the 23rd month of a two-year contract. The contract is nearly over, the subscriber obligation to Verizon almost fulfilled, yet the company can still slap its customers with nearly a third of the full ETF if they break it at that time."
    Last edited by Hankster; 11-08-09 at 12:31 PM.
    11-08-09 12:28 PM
  2. Username00089's Avatar
    Yeah it's just simple. If you don't like their business practice don't subscribe.
    Nothing that really needs to be discussed.
    11-08-09 12:37 PM
  3. habs_fan's Avatar
    Really don't know why people are crying over this! In canada rogers etf is 400 and I believe bell and Telus doesn't have a cap, I know Telus doesn't have a etf cap!

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    11-08-09 01:50 PM
  4. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    Verizon probably started doing this because too many people were getting the BOGO phones and then cancelling one line and selling one of the phones on eBay or Craigslist for more money than the $175. This will prevent people from making money off the BOGO phones that way.
    11-08-09 01:59 PM
  5. TheScionicMan's Avatar
    Well, if someone loves Verizon, then the ETF probably won't make any difference since they won't be leaving...

    THe current average is 150, but the devices are getting more and more expensive. It's not a huge shocker, to me, that they would raise that price to be relevant to the current market of phones.

    I could be wrong, but I don't think they charge an ETF when upgrading.

    Easiest way to avoid the ETF - don't terminate early
    11-08-09 02:00 PM
  6. JackTrade's Avatar
    Well, if someone loves Verizon, then the ETF probably won't make any difference since they won't be leaving...

    THe current average is 150, but the devices are getting more and more expensive. It's not a huge shocker, to me, that they would raise that price to be relevant to the current market of phones.

    I could be wrong, but I don't think they charge an ETF when upgrading.

    Easiest way to avoid the ETF - don't terminate early
    simple and plain, if you love verizon it doesnt matter what the etf is because you wont need to terminate early...

    Easiest way to avoid the ETF - don't terminate early
    11-08-09 02:06 PM
  7. skyboxer's Avatar
    It doesn't bother me, because I don't plan to go anywhere anytime soon. Nobody else's ETF is this high, but nobody else does BOGO promotions on expensive phones either.
    11-08-09 02:12 PM
  8. cenloe's Avatar
    Whatever. You only get charged the ETF if YOU BREAK YOUR CONTRACT.

    I've been with Verizon for 5 years now and I do not plan on leaving anytime soon, so the ETF does not apply to me.
    11-08-09 02:15 PM
  9. jlsparks's Avatar
    It doesn't bother me, because I don't plan to go anywhere anytime soon. Nobody else's ETF is this high, but nobody else does BOGO promotions on expensive phones either.
    +1 I've been with VZW for a long time and as long as they continue to invest the kind of capital in their network that they have been, continue to provide me with service that's so consistent I can't remember the last time I had a dropped call, continue to introduce innovative devices to the marketplace, I'm not going anywhere. Who am I going to move my service to? T-Mobile? (SK/Microsoft/Danger fiasco followed by their outage this week caused by network overload in a quad in Indiana). Sprint/Nextel? Been there, done that. They're still trying to figure out what to do with iden. I don't know anyone who uses their service anymore. I moved my company away from them before the merger because their service was so spotty. AT&T? We all know about their coverage. VZW is simply the best. When you're the best you can charge a premium. If you don't like the ETF get a pay-as-you-go phone
    11-08-09 02:19 PM
  10. r.wats75's Avatar
    I don't think Verizon or AT&T are hurting for customers. And as stated above, if you don't like the ETF, don't cancel your contract early or go with someone else.
    11-08-09 03:44 PM
  11. TheSultan's Avatar
    I didn't even know what the original ETF was before it changed, I'm with Verizon, and won't be switching anytime soon. I'm sure this will only effect a small portion of the population.
    11-08-09 04:13 PM
  12. Gawain's Avatar
    I don't think this will impact their subscriber growth rate one bit. The new ETF is for "smart" devices. I keep wondering what circumstances would make me want to leave VZW...and I can't think of any.

    This quote from the article sums it up:
    Your first question regarding the balance at month 23 or 24 assumes that, at that point, we have recovered all of our subsidy and up-front costs for every device. That simply is not so.

    On your second question, while the pace of innovation plays a role in prices coming down somewhat, it also plays a role in driving up costs as more and more complexity that customers want is added to phones–from premium HTML browsers to high-resolution MP cameras with optical zoom; videoplayers; music players; dual processor chipsets; WiFi; very high display resolution, operating systems such as BlackBerry, Windows Mobile, Palm, Android–ALL with the added value (vs a desktop) of mobility, and ALL in one tiny device that ALSO allows you to talk to anyone from anywhere. phew! (by comparison, I recently paid $200 for a camera and all it can do is take pictures, and it has only middle of the road capabilities.)

    But getting back to ETFs specifically. The most important point is that Verizon Wireless customers do not have to have an ETF at all if they do not want to. ETFs allow customers to have it either way: They can have no ETF and pay full retail for their device. OR, they can get a greatly discounted device by having an ETF.
    11-08-09 04:23 PM
  13. tlo07's Avatar
    I'm betting that the other carriers will raise their ETFs for smartphones as well. Its only a matter of time. Its not suprising considering how many people are always trying to work the system to get the latest and greatest phone before their upgrade date.
    11-08-09 04:24 PM
  14. MobileMadness002's Avatar
    I think all carriers should only provide phones at full retail price, service on a monthly basis, and let the customers come and go as they please. The issue is that most users, at least in Canada and the US have become very cheap when wanting phones. Wanting them for free with no consequences. That is where the issue lies. Customer perception that the phones should be free and they think they deserve them for free.
    11-08-09 04:44 PM
  15. TheScionicMan's Avatar
    Customer perception that the phones should be free and they think they deserve them for free.
    And because of that, lots of people also treat them like they are free and will just be handed another free one when it breaks. If they paid full retail, they'd baby the thing. The market for insurance and protective cases would skyrocket.
    11-08-09 04:51 PM
  16. Coruptyed's Avatar
    still cheaper then the providers in canada, cost to cancel here on all providers is 400.
    11-08-09 05:51 PM
  17. dcgore's Avatar
    I understand the change from a "bottom line" revenue stance but this will hurt without a doubt the capacity in which people upgrade phones/get the latest thing out there.
    I will sure think twice about getting a new device now that i have to pay 350 if for whatever reason i have/decide to cancel my service and i wouldn't mind paying full retail price for it only if a month later the device would be worth $150 less.

    If VZ is the only carrier that adopts this policy, i am sure the will have to go back to $175 because they will lose a lot of business.
    11-09-09 02:31 PM
  18. Afangrywarrior's Avatar
    This ONLY APPLIES to Advanced Devices (Blackberry, Palm, Winmo, Droid). All other normal phones (Non pda) are still only $175. This was done because a lot of people were scamming by getting a Blackberry for free or close to, paying the $175 ETF and then selling the Blackberry for $200 - 300 on Craigslist... So we had to change the ETF of the advanced devices to avoid these scammers.
    11-09-09 02:36 PM
  19. dcgore's Avatar
    This ONLY APPLIES to Advanced Devices (Blackberry, Palm, Winmo, Droid). All other normal phones (Non pda) are still only $175. This was done because a lot of people were scamming by getting a Blackberry for free or close to, paying the $175 ETF and then selling the Blackberry for $200 - 300 on Craigslist... So we had to change the ETF of the advanced devices to avoid these scammers.
    I think it would've been more reasonable if VZ stops offering BOGO on smart devices (but i can see how this attacks new business). People that upgrade their phone or get the latest thing will not simply upgrade to a phone that does not have the IT factor. After having a bberry i don't think i can go back to just a flip phone but i will certainly will not be willing to sign something for 2 full years with a $350 condition on it. I am sure a lot of people will voice the same concern and VZ will see their contumer base that upgrade from a S1 to a S2 i.e diminish quite significanlty.
    11-09-09 02:47 PM
  20. Afangrywarrior's Avatar
    IDK about that... Most people who are upgrading with advanced devices are all about getting it now, having it in their hand. When the contracts being explained most people are tuned out and dont care. We are a society of "Now", everything has to be had now so I dont see this effecting the upgrade status.
    11-09-09 02:57 PM
  21. kjjb0204's Avatar
    So I don't really understand something here. If someone gets two new lines on BOGO and cancels service before 30 days, they either have to give the devices back or pay full retail for both units. Are people waiting 30 days then canceling? Once the $175 fee plus one month of service @ at least $60, you're looking at $235 cost plus the original device cost against a sale of maybe $300 max depending on device? Why would someone go to the hassle of doing this just to make next to nothing in profit?
    11-09-09 03:04 PM
  22. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    So I don't really understand something here. If someone gets two new lines on BOGO and cancels service before 30 days, they either have to give the devices back or pay full retail for both units. Are people waiting 30 days then canceling? Once the $175 fee plus one month of service @ at least $60, you're looking at $235 cost plus the original device cost against a sale of maybe $300 max depending on device? Why would someone go to the hassle of doing this just to make next to nothing in profit?
    Just look at the eBay listings here for the Storm 2. They are going for a lot more than $300. That is why Verizon is changing their policy. blackberry storm 2, great deals on Cell Phones Smartphones, Camera on eBay!
    11-09-09 03:11 PM
  23. dcgore's Avatar
    I agree with you, our society wants everything now, however, i believe when one sees paying for a $350 ETF and trying to sell a devalued device does not justfy going through the trouble of upgrading, people will abtain from doing so. Please kept us posted and thanks for your observations.
    11-09-09 03:17 PM
  24. yacoby54's Avatar
    These threads are getting old. I dread how many more we are going to have sift through when all of the other US carriers follow suit soon.
    11-09-09 03:26 PM
  25. kjjb0204's Avatar
    Yeah, this seems like a huge pain in the rear for a couple hundred bucks. What a waste of time.
    11-09-09 04:03 PM
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