11-23-08 10:57 AM
95 1234
tools
  1. GapBoyPCS's Avatar
    I wanted to post something yesterday when I first saw the thread. I held off, and I read it again today. The main beef I have is the overall tone from the OP in that all people here condone this, and that isn't true.

    The blame goes many ways, and not squarely at CB. Blame the people who find a loophole and exploit a corporation's policy. Blame the corporation that has such a policy and doesn't fully think of the ramifications of such a policy until it's too late, or doesn't properly monitor the effects of its policies. What I gather from this thread is that although the fee might come into effect, some dealers will just eat up the cost for the sake of customer relations. Will the OP start blaming those dealers for having that competitive advantage or customer service detail when they lose out on a sale because the store down the road won't charge them a restocking fee?

    Everyone has to make money somewhere. I understand the reasons behind the fee, but don't blame the whole because of the actions of a select few.
    11-15-08 09:27 AM
  2. chromedome's Avatar
    why do all you stores hollar it costs me so much I don't make anything selling it. If that were true then everyone of you would refuse to open your doors cause you wouldn't be able to pay the lightbill muchless the employees. so drop the lies say a phone cost about 50 bucks to make then add 25% markup for profit from manufacturing then an addtional 25% for Verison corp then the 25% store markup so the store makes enough to keep going. now you up to roughly 97 bucks so they charge 99.99 with a two year contract and jump to 399.99 without a contract so they can tie you in to an agreement to make sure they have your service for atleast 2 years. I used to work in sales and noone sells nothing if they don't make a profit. Business is all about profit.
    Well spoken. It is as simple as this: Someone who sells a product or a service dictates the terms of sale, no ifs ands or buts. If you don't like what someone is selling or you don't like the terms they dictate, sorry about your bad luck but nobody said you had to buy ANYTHING. People always complain about how much money a company is making off of them or how much profit they earn. Technically that isn't ANY of your business, and that IS their business, that's why they're in business!!
    11-15-08 11:27 AM
  3. Five's Avatar
    People, please.

    Do you actually think that VZW's business model really allows for a few thousand customers to affect their bottom line so much that they have to initiate a $15 fee to compensate for it? Come back to reality. This is the largest carrier in the US and one of the biggest in the free world. Verizon has known about the Storm for well over a year, and has been planning for just as long to initiate the higher "restocking fee" in order to generate more revenue. The Storm is a cash cow just as the iPhone was for AT&T, and to see it as anything less is pure fantasy.

    If you think VZW loses money when someone returns a phone, you are delusional. They actually make more money with refurbished phones than they do with new ones. They're used as retention tools and save more revenue from churn than any new sales could ever generate--and in less time.

    If you think the "restocking fee" is anything but pure profit, you are delusional.

    If you think VZW cares as much about its associates' commission checks as it does its own bottom line, you are also delusional.

    And if any of this is unfathomable to you, this is why you are stuck here bickering in this thread while the rest of us are actually out doing something that will make a difference in our lives or the lives of others.

    As I said before, this thread began with a useless post and continues to proliferate with useless replies--this one included. Wake up people and realize that VZW does not care about you or your life. All they care about is their bottom line and they will give as little as possible in order to get the most in return. To think otherwise is the product of corporate and commercial brainwashing. Wake up!
    11-15-08 11:41 AM
  4. adiorable's Avatar
    No it takes commission away from the original sales person and gives it to the new one.

    If you are taking returns from 2005 that is your fault.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    No it isn't my fault its the company I work for who allow us to take that **** back. Even the crappiest stores with horrible policies give 30 days to return something.

    You would think by law a business would have to give a period of time to return something? I mean what if you get a crappy sales person and they don't know what they're talking about and you get a crappy phone? Will people have to pay restocking fees on duds? Yea it won't last long with verizon, buddy.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    11-15-08 12:17 PM
  5. TyD's Avatar
    All I have to say is.... you guys think its bad here.. try browsing the ppcgeeks.com site.. Some of the warranty and insurance fraud that goes on there is crazy..
    11-15-08 12:45 PM
  6. tech42er's Avatar
    You can't return clothes with tags off just because you changed your mind or you want the newer model. You can't return a car because the next year came out.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Right, but if the store I buy the clothes ADVERTISES that I can return the clothes within 30 days, I better well be able to. Verizon does not HAVE to do this, and the debate is not over whether or not it's a good policy. The bottom line is that they prominently ADVERTISE this 30 day return policy and taking advantage of it is not fraud. I'm not lying and saying the phone doesn't work; I'm just saying I'd like a different phone, I'll pay the difference, I'll even pay the little restocking fee. I am not a crook!
    11-15-08 12:54 PM
  7. ommpahlummpah's Avatar
    People make me giggle.

    Think about it phones and MANY other devices made don't cost all that great of money to produce most expensive is the labor imo. And I beleave the 30 days is great I had a voyager and hated it and got the curve and love it and I plan on getting a nice long service outta vzw and my berry. And yes I don't agree with people cheeting the system and "oh my phone messed up so ima just open a new line and cancel it within a week" but every body does what they do its life. But let's get alil technical here if vzw did not have 30 days I would still be with alltel until the "buyout" now how many consumers would have done that just because verizon was "confadent" that their service was superior to others. So let's just take into account that I did that and took the voyager back and got curve now I'm happy payin my rather expensive phone bill and plan to be with verizon for a while to come that is 200 some a month easy now take into account that 60 some MILLION iirc pay any where from say 60 to 200 even 300 that is a **** load of money now in my eyes that money should be great to cover the costs of 30 day trial and the guys and gals that "cheat" the system and still can produce the network that vzw carries. And I am sorry for the people that work comission because at times it can suck just like some buisnesses, for example carpet cleaning for a majoity its a season based thing for apartment complexes and flood damage etc and I can vouch for that but I guess what I'm gettin at is that u dig ur own hole. And on the insurance note just like many other ppl out there I pay 7 a month I believe for 3 phones on my account I know it dosent sound like a lot of money but think if atleast 40 million custumers payed the insurance for non smart phone I think its like 5$ and 7$ for smart. That would be a lot of money givin so many customers actually need a replacement or that take care of the phones and never use the service. So let's say 7 for a bb a month X 12 months = about 84 a year 1 year of that is under manafactures warrentee unless lost stolen or damaged by water or smashed so ppl like me and many others would keep phone like new and still pay the money just in case so in my eyes that would pay for the services that are "loosing" money and so the service will no longer be there I don't buy that. I beleve if the sevice was complete crap it would fail.

    Sory for the long obnoxious 1 paragraph but I know I'm not the only one that thinks like this. And I'm not tryin to start crap just trying to put in my 2c

    Jason

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    11-15-08 01:48 PM
  8. Reed McLay's Avatar
    Revenue for fiscal 2008 was $6.01 billion, an increase of $2.97 billion, or 97.9%, from $3.04 billion in fiscal 2007. The number of BlackBerry devices sold increased by approximately 7.4 million, or 114.8%, to approximately 13.8 million in fiscal 2008, compared to approximately 6.4 million in fiscal 2007.

    Device revenue increased by $2.55 billion, or 115.2 %, to $4.77 billion, reflecting primarily the higher number of devices sold. Service revenue increased by $300.5 million to $860.6 million, reflecting the Company’s increase in BlackBerry subscriber accounts since fiscal 2007. Software revenue increased by $61.2 million to $234.4 million in fiscal 2008.
    ...

    Device revenue: $4.77 Billion (CDN)

    Devices shipped: 13.8 Million

    Average revenue / device = $346

    Consider too, RIM manufactured about 50% corporate (8700) and 50% consumer devices. Clearly the cost of manufacturing the 8700 is less then the Curve and Pearls. The average consumer device is likely closer to $400.

    If the carrier is paying $400 per device and selling them at $200, then they are subsidized.

    Revenue
    Wireless (network revenue) $ 5,154 Million
    ...

    Equipment sales $349 Million
    ...
    Cost of equipment sales $ 703 Million
    ...
    Rogers gross margin on equipment sales is -49.64%.

    That is likely typical of most carriers, a 50% subsidy on equipment sales.

    Rogers is not making money on equipment sales. They make their money, over $5 Billion, on subscriber service fees.

    Last edited by Reed McLay; 11-15-08 at 03:10 PM.
    11-15-08 03:02 PM
  9. cannonballgsu's Avatar
    i hate people trying to get something for nothing. I've been dealing with my dieing phone for the past month because i'm waiting for the storm. Its crappy for people to do that.

    where is your store, i'll come buy from you!!! haha
    11-15-08 03:56 PM
  10. berry me with it's Avatar
    why do all you stores hollar it costs me so much I don't make anything selling it. If that were true then everyone of you would refuse to open your doors cause you wouldn't be able to pay the lightbill muchless the employees. so drop the lies say a phone cost about 50 bucks to make then add 25% markup for profit from manufacturing then an addtional 25% for Verison corp then the 25% store markup so the store makes enough to keep going. now you up to roughly 97 bucks so they charge 99.99 with a two year contract and jump to 399.99 without a contract so they can tie you in to an agreement to make sure they have your service for atleast 2 years. I used to work in sales and noone sells nothing if they don't make a profit. Business is all about profit.
    You think RIM works off 25% markup?

    I guarantee you that here in Texas Verison will not be charging a restocking fee for less than 30 days. The state of Texas has a law that you have 30 days to return ANYTHING regardless of the reason and the retailer IS REQUIRED to refund your money without ANY fees taken out.
    This is not correct at all. Many retail stores have restocking fees.
    11-15-08 04:33 PM
  11. vndlewis's Avatar
    if vzw did not have 30 days I would still be with alltel until the "buyout" now how many consumers would have done that just because verizon was "confadent" that their service was superior to others. So let's just take into account that I did that and took the voyager back and got curve now I'm happy
    But you didn't get the voyager knowing full well you would return it in your 30 day period for the curve. You did it the way the policy was intended. You are not the problem.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    11-15-08 04:40 PM
  12. ShortStop51001's Avatar
    It's tiring seeing people saying the "correct" and "incorrect" uses of this test drive. honestly until the fine print in the 30 day period states the specific uses of the grace period(& they have a way to prove why you returned it , no one is doing anything wrong, and if they want to charge 35 bucks to restock i dont think many people have a problem paying that.
    11-15-08 07:46 PM
  13. sexysweetk22's Avatar
    With every good thing there are always more then a few people out to abuse and work the system, which sucks for honest people like myself who try and always do the right thing...unfortunately that's life.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    11-15-08 09:25 PM
  14. ommpahlummpah's Avatar
    But you didn't get the voyager knowing full well you would return it in your 30 day period for the curve. You did it the way the policy was intended. You are not the problem.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    hehe didnt mean for it to sould like i was the problem :P. just meant it was a great program to be offered to consumers.

    but in any case i have a blackberry now and its all gravy, it got alil scratched now so new housing time!! thinking titanium with seido? 2600 batt and oem bb case yumm i love blackberry!
    Last edited by ommpahlummpah; 11-15-08 at 09:29 PM. Reason: butt??? it added it like a cuss word lolz
    11-15-08 09:28 PM
  15. tlhead's Avatar
    I'm with sprint and I bought an instinct a week ago and i called them back later that night to tell them i didnt want that crap. I then sent it in and got my curve. They told me I had 30 days though..i didnt pay a restocking fee i dont think..
    11-15-08 09:48 PM
  16. CipherDias's Avatar
    I foresee this thread spiraling out of control fast
    11-16-08 05:34 AM
  17. ff_emtd's Avatar
    I cringe when I read a post telling how to lie, cheat, or defraud. But, it's not CB's fault - it's the fault of the people who do that kind of stuff.
    11-16-08 05:59 AM
  18. garpt's Avatar
    The liberal return policies are a strategic business plan put in place to give a competitive edge to the retailer. They end up being MORE profitable for the store/ carrier that enacts them. As a District Manager for RadioShack, I absolutely KNOW when an AT&T store opens across the mall or in the same strip as one of my stores, AT&T sales are going to double. In one mall store I ran back in CT., we went from 90 to 170 AT&T sales a month when AT&T opened a store right next to us. This is not at all unusual. Returns ran just over 10%, which is high, but we still almost DOUBLED contracts. And with commissions running from $16.00 to over $90.00 for a Family Plan, I believe the sales associates would take the trade off anyday. Take the hit on one commission for almost 50% more in total commissions. And why did we have the success? Because RadioShack has the most liberal return policies in the industry, (30 days, no questions asked, no fees,) and most of the lowest prices- cheaper than AT&T stores in virtually every instance. Sprint is in serious trouble, but they would have been out of business a year and a half ago if not for RS and their liberal return policies and prices such as the Instinct for $99.00 and the BlackBerry Curve for $49. I'm sure there may be an isolated incidence where one of you are going to complain about a bad experience in an RS, but the bottom line, if it gets to me or ANY DM, you ARE getting your money back, within 30 days, no questions asked- it doesn't matter WHAT is implied about "abusing" the policy. That's the policy. And it's there because it works. Verizon is "cutting its nose to spite its face" by removing one of those policies.
    Last edited by garpt; 11-16-08 at 10:19 AM.
    11-16-08 09:58 AM
  19. gmkahuna's Avatar
    I'm stating the reasons why verizon is changing and will continue to change the policies. Abuse of a good program by a few ruins it for all. Most don't realize that a phone is a subsidized cost. It costs these companies more than they sell it to you for. Most make up the cost of the phone after about 6 months (on an adda line)
    And you seriously think we're all dumb enough to believe that it costs you and the other cell phone companies $100+ dollars a month for you to supply us with what we want. Sorry but the difference in the phone cost is passed on to us and anyone who doesn't realize that is fooling themselves. Why else would there be a price for over the counter sale with no contract, a 1 year contract price and a two year contract price that all get progressively cheaper the longer you agree to stay with said carrier. Your cutting your loses by adding it to the bill automatically and those who bring their own phone still pay for it.
    11-16-08 10:08 AM
  20. Stonewall's Avatar
    Well that why I am getting the Storm at BestBuy TomWiz. I have 30 days and no ramifications for a restocking fee. I personally have been debating between the Storm & the iPhone for quite some time. BestBuy's policy will allow me to decide which phone I will buy from a one stop shop.
    11-16-08 11:13 AM
  21. Back Stabbath's Avatar
    yeah.....

    its really hard for me to feel sorry for a corporate entity that screws its customers over and cries poverty when one of their own policies is used by paying customers and they dont get to rape the **** out of them instead. not to mention it might not happen as much if verizon offered decent phones.


    /you get what you give. this is business. if i didnt try to find the best deal and take full advantage of it i would be failing at it.
    Last edited by Back Stabbath; 11-16-08 at 01:41 PM.
    11-16-08 11:32 AM
  22. exelant's Avatar
    I think the OP is complaining to the wrong people. At CrackBerry we don't put up with thieves, scammers or people who take advantage of providers. We tell people with malfunctioning devices to use their warranties. That is what they're for, right? As far as the cost of a device, they are subsidized because the companies make their money on the service contracts. If they were losing money, they'd increase prices.

    I see people get flamed all the time for bragging about unethical behavior. You are getting on the wrong people. Spend some more time here and you'll see the truth.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    11-16-08 12:19 PM
  23. vndlewis's Avatar
    I spend time here and I see honest people being flamed - especially here in this thread. No one cares to admit that the people being dishonest and bragging about it is only hurting the other customers. They say take to corporate but don't give a flying rats a*s about the real people who are getting hurt - the customers and employees.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    11-16-08 03:10 PM
  24. milimowze's Avatar
    comments reg this whole post--tom's right, they add a line to get the storm, then if they cancel after 3 days, they are required to return the phone or the system auto generates the cost of retail charge to the bill, and is a "manufacturer suggested retail cost" (to those who think vzw decide to choose their own retail price) if theyve already had past the 30 days and try to cancel the line to keep the phone, they pay a termination fee so its a loselose situation. companies just dont sell amazing phones for $200 for nothing, they cost way more than that to make, they need business to make up for all those thousands of phones they practically give away, so even if it didnt actually cost $600 exact to make, thats what the manufacturer offers as a suggestive price, and honestly if u look at the cost of technology for all diff parts, it should be right around 600. if your not an engineer for blackberry then you have no idea of cost, $600 seems pretty low for such a remarkable computer that fits in your hand
    11-16-08 03:55 PM
  25. ATTrepinbama's Avatar
    To second what everyone has said, AT&T now has a $20 restocking fee for returned phones (effective October 20). I agree with the verizon rep that was sick of customers abusing the system. I cannot tell you how many customers came in and purchased the curve only to swap it for the bold. These customers do not realize that we cannot turn around and resell that phone as new to someone else even though nothing is wrong with it. We have to send all returned phones back and have them tested and reconditioned and then they are re sold as refurbished for a significant discount. Therefore, people simply 'test driving' phones greatly annoy me. We have fully working phones on display and people can play with them all they want prior to purchasing. Okay, I am finished ranting now!
    11-16-08 04:07 PM
95 1234
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD