01-22-11 01:56 PM
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  1. dutchtender's Avatar
    its not about RIM competing. The big deal with that iPhone garbage is that its been exclusive. Everyone wants a piece of it. Now that its coming to other networks its losing that exclusiveness
    no. people want iphones on the network they are tied to. because it's BETTER.

    oh and yes the Iphone is a toy. we get it!
    01-11-11 06:00 PM
  2. dutchtender's Avatar
    You could also say, "Android sales went up because customers wanted an iPhone on Verizon but it didn't exist, so they bought the iPhone clone instead."
    yes if it makes you feel better to say that go ahead. that won't turn ip4 on Verizon into good news for rimm. it's terrible news for rimm. and that is the bottom line.
    01-11-11 06:02 PM
  3. dutchtender's Avatar
    There is NO android or iPhone equivalent to the 8530, or 9330.
    these phones are entry level keyboard messaging phones, and will continue to sell well on verizon, they wont be flashships,

    RIM will probably not get more than 15-25% of the Verizon smartphone business, but Android will go from 80% to 40% after the iPhone is released, they will be the ones fighting it out at the top spot
    I doubt it. rimm is only at 20% now and that was before ip4. you are suggesting they won't lose any more share and that's overly optimistic to the point of being a fan boy. you aren't that are you? besides, that was yesterday. people want more than texting now. no kid or adult will want to just message when you can get android for $99 or even less.
    Last edited by dutchtender; 01-11-11 at 06:09 PM.
    01-11-11 06:05 PM
  4. dutchtender's Avatar
    iPhone is on AT&T, and AT&T still gets plenty of Blackberry love. Maybe Apple showing some CDMA love will force RIM too also. RIM needs to get away from exclusivity like the Torch and Storm, and focus on getting handsets to carriers, both CDMA and GSM. Storm and Torch both would have sold much better in US if they weren't exclusive to one carrier. Apple is saturated with just AT&T in the US, only growing a fraction of percent this past 3 months, they have to add a carrier to grow more.
    the reason is simple. the only modern phone rim sells is on ATT and that had a massive advertising campaign to suck in people who didn't know any better. The other poster is correct. Now that ATT is losing ip4 exclusivity, expect a huge Android push from them and rim will be the victim of that android push.
    01-11-11 06:08 PM
  5. 67Tucker's Avatar
    You could also say, "Android sales went up because customers wanted an iPhone on Verizon but it didn't exist, so they bought the iPhone clone instead."
    Put another way: In one year, RIM's satisfaction level at VZW fell from 90% to below 20%. See how that works?
    JoelTruckerDude likes this.
    01-11-11 06:18 PM
  6. TheScionicMan's Avatar
    I don't believe there will be any room for RIM on Big Red.
    If you're referring to bandwidth, I agree, there won't be much room left, but luckily the BB doesn't use as much data...
    01-11-11 06:25 PM
  7. Steve Rizla's Avatar
    yes if it makes you feel better to say that go ahead. that won't turn ip4 on Verizon into good news for rimm. it's terrible news for rimm. and that is the bottom line.
    Anyways, lol

    I was just trying to say that it would be bad news for BlackBerry sales as well as Android sales.
    Of course there will be Verizon customers who own a Blackberry and were waiting for this day so that they could finally get an iPhone while staying with Verizon. There are also the customers who left Blackberry and got an Android because it was iPhone-like, moreso than a Blackberry, now they can finally keep their carrier and get the phone that they wanted in the first place. Obviously, the people who are happy with their Android purchase won't be a factor and this iPhone news will mean nothing to them.

    I was looking at it from the point of view of the average consumer who just buys what they see, not from the point of view of a geek or fanboi who already knows what they want.
    Last edited by Steve Rizla; 01-11-11 at 06:39 PM.
    01-11-11 06:37 PM
  8. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    I doubt it. rimm is only at 20% now and that was before ip4. you are suggesting they won't lose any more share and that's overly optimistic to the point of being a fan boy. you aren't that are you? besides, that was yesterday. people want more than texting now. no kid or adult will want to just message when you can get android for $99 or even less.

    You paint everyone with the same brush,

    the people who purchased Blackberry's in 2010, are the same type of people who will purchase them in 2011 on Verizon, they don't want touchscreen phones, they don't want slider phones,
    Their options are limited to the Curve series,
    and I really don't see the iPhone taking much of the RIM business, because the RIM business is the low end business, and the iPhone is not in that business,
    Many users still just txt, heck a friend of mine who works for a discount carrier says she gets asked all the time for Mobile phones that JUST MAKE CALLS, they don't even care about txting,

    You and I will never agree on this, we've but heads many time because you can't grasp people think differently than you, and I too am pig headed and wont step down and concede my point.
    01-11-11 06:45 PM
  9. pjmacklin's Avatar
    wow, iphone to verizon! certainly has to be the end for rim and other cell carriers as we've known them! it'll likely drive at&t to the brink as well! there couldn't possibly be worse news in the world! what ever will those of us that refuse to hop the apple cart do? i dread to think!
    Steve Rizla likes this.
    01-11-11 06:46 PM
  10. dutchtender's Avatar
    You paint everyone with the same brush,

    the people who purchased Blackberry's in 2010, are the same type of people who will purchase them in 2011 on Verizon, they don't want touchscreen phones, they don't want slider phones,
    Their options are limited to the Curve series,
    and I really don't see the iPhone taking much of the RIM business, because the RIM business is the low end business, and the iPhone is not in that business,
    Many users still just txt, heck a friend of mine who works for a discount carrier says she gets asked all the time for Mobile phones that JUST MAKE CALLS, they don't even care about txting,

    You and I will never agree on this, we've but heads many time because you can't grasp people think differently than you, and I too am pig headed and wont step down and concede my point.

    many of those people get along just fine with virtual keyboards. and when their contracts expire they move to android and now ip4. you are saying that market share for rimm on vz has bottomed out. but you have no proof of that. it's an odd thing to say on teh very day ip4 is announced for VZ. There is no evidence to suggest that BB market share has bottomed out on VZ. it's you just making a guess and applying wishful thinking. in fact rimm is working desperately to clone the android ip experience. they are just way late in doing it. why would people, when they finally learn the ropes, want a poor internet and browsing experience for the same monthly price as you pay for a great one on android and ip4. people are going to wise and up and realize they are being massively overcharged for data when they buy bb. nobody is going to want to be left behind when all their friends have great touch screen devices. there will be a few HC BB holdouts. very few.
    Last edited by dutchtender; 01-11-11 at 07:09 PM.
    01-11-11 07:03 PM
  11. blakeberry's Avatar
    A lot of interesting thoughts expressed here. I'll add mine as a vzw (personal) and at&t user (business). I have had BlackBerry's on vzw since the 7250 and currently have three on a family plan at vzw. The one I use is the original storm (9530) and that phone has been due an upgrade for awhile now. I have waited for VZW and RIM to add something new the the BB lineup at VZW. They have only tweaked existing phones without adding a new device for quite some time. My storm is failing with a faulty screen and touch recognition. I need a new phone. My first choice would be a blackberry because I like them. However, the android devices and the iphone have got me looking at them. I haven't seen or heard of anything new coming to vzw in the way of a new bb device. I will wait only so long until the frustration with a faulty device becomes too much. Had a bought a bb at vzw 6 months ago, I would be in a better position to wait out a new bb device. As it stands, I may have no choice but to purchase an android or iphone device. I know these two devices have there issues as well and somethings are done better by the blackberry, but I don't want to sign a two year contract for any one of the existing crop of bb's on vzw.

    My at&t device for work is the Torch. I have been very happy with it. In my opinion it is the best bb device. I would recommend it to anyone.

    So is bb dead at vzw. No, but it has it is headed in the direction of a distant 3rd unless RIM does something. QNX in a phone would probably do it, but the longer that takes to hit the market without anything new coming on board bb will have trouble keeping up. I'm guessing RIM recognizes this and is working hard at trying to avoid this situation. So far though, I'm not hearing anything. It would be encouraging to hear anything at all.
    01-11-11 07:25 PM
  12. Daniel Ratcliffe's Avatar
    And the way I see it is given what Nokia are bringing out these days, even Nokia are going to overtake RIM on Verizon Wireless. 12Mpixel cameras are gonna get heads turning.

    I reckon it'll go like this:
    1) Android
    2) iPhone
    3) Nokia
    4) BlackBerry

    Nokias will end up being seen as the budget devices (you get more bang for your buck with a Nokia than you do with a BlackBerry). Best Nokia QWERTY keypad device: 120
    Most basic QWERTY BlackBerry: 150

    You pay more for less with BlackBerry, and the people are gonna latch onto that and move to Nokia for a budget device. This then leaves BlackBerry totally in the cold, with even less sales, and getting beaten by a company who also got relegated to "budget phone" status.

    I'd love to see Palm annihalate RIM too, every single company (even SEGA) beat RIM in the phone business. Maybe then, they'll realise they're not doing enough and will work hard to catch up and get their name back out, because if they don't they'll go bust.
    01-11-11 07:40 PM
  13. avt123's Avatar
    even Nokia are going to overtake RIM on Verizon Wireless.
    Nokia has almost no presence in the smartphone market in the U.S. Nokia doesn't even have a smartphone on Verizon.
    01-11-11 07:46 PM
  14. hootyhoo's Avatar
    And the way I see it is given what Nokia are bringing out these days, even Nokia are going to overtake RIM on Verizon Wireless. 12Mpixel cameras are gonna get heads turning.

    I reckon it'll go like this:
    1) Android
    2) iPhone
    3) Nokia
    4) BlackBerry

    Nokias will end up being seen as the budget devices (you get more bang for your buck with a Nokia than you do with a BlackBerry). Best Nokia QWERTY keypad device: 120
    Most basic QWERTY BlackBerry: 150

    You pay more for less with BlackBerry, and the people are gonna latch onto that and move to Nokia for a budget device. This then leaves BlackBerry totally in the cold, with even less sales, and getting beaten by a company who also got relegated to "budget phone" status.

    I'd love to see Palm annihalate RIM too, every single company (even SEGA) beat RIM in the phone business. Maybe then, they'll realise they're not doing enough and will work hard to catch up and get their name back out, because if they don't they'll go bust.
    Lol @ the sega comment!

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    01-11-11 08:23 PM
  15. techjunkieforlife's Avatar
    the vzw rep told me about an hour ago "we may not be carrying blackberry soon".....I was shocked. He tried to sell me a droid 2 and I said id wait for the bionic. He tried to tell me the bionic hasnt been confirmed yet
    Interesting comment as a couple of people I work with have been told the same in verizon stores in the past 4mths, they also was pushed a Droid instead. But this just maybe the awful way they sell on commission in company stores rather than actually helping a customer make the right choice for them.
    01-11-11 09:13 PM
  16. lssanjose's Avatar
    It's about the almighty licensing agreement, and partnership between Verizon and its partners - Microsoft, Google being the big fish they're with now. Don't forget they also have a partnership with the NFL, exemplified in its NFL mobile app.
    01-11-11 09:56 PM
  17. i7guy's Avatar
    Interesting comment as a couple of people I work with have been told the same in verizon stores in the past 4mths, they also was pushed a Droid instead. But this just maybe the awful way they sell on commission in company stores rather than actually helping a customer make the right choice for them.
    While I don't believe in switching carriers for a phone if vzw drops rim I'm dropping vzw.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    01-11-11 10:22 PM
  18. QWKSNKE's Avatar
    LOL..6 mos from now this site will be littered with.." Jumping back to BB, Iphone is not what I thought it would be" just like we see with people who jump ship to go to Android and come back.. I have several friends who have had iphones and were not that happy with them
    Everybody has different needs or requirements for the smartphone. I do not nor will I ever use a smartphone as my primary internet surfing tool. That is what PC's are for. So I don't care how much 'better' the browser is.

    So yeah, I am in the minority that is happy with what Rim has to offer.
    01-11-11 10:27 PM
  19. zwoof's Avatar
    people are going to wise and up and realize they are being massively overcharged for data when they buy bb
    It's why I'm dumping my Bold as soon as I can. I'm throwing away money on a data plan I can hardly use. The iPhone will solve my problem. I see the Droids and the others as iPhone clones. Now that Verizon getting the real deal, that's what I'm going for.
    To each their own of course and I'm sure Blackberry will have its niche but not for someone like myself that wants to get the most out of the internet
    As for touchscreens, I'm so much more comfortable with them over a tiny keypad.
    01-11-11 10:33 PM
  20. iamajim's Avatar
    'Ya can't blame Vz; what has RIM given them to work with? NOTHING!! They pulled the S3 probably because all it had was OS6 which doesn't cut it for consumers. That playbook will be locked down to mostly corporate types so...what's left? Com'on, nobody here want's to upgrade to the current inventory, all I see on this forum is people complaining about the lack of new phones to upgrade to; everyone is migrating to Android for now. We're doomed I tell's ya!!
    JoelTruckerDude likes this.
    01-11-11 11:40 PM
  21. n8ter#AC's Avatar
    They are selling all 3 now, aren't they?
    AT&T sells high end phones for practically every smartphone OS. That statement doesn't really prove anything.

    They have Palm Pre/Pixi+, Touch Pro II's, High End WP7 Devices, Bolds and Torches, Galaxy S (Captivate), iOS (i3GS/i4), Symbian (Nokia Eseries).

    Then there's their Feature Phones, and at least one "GPS Phone" similar to T-Mobile's Garmin Nuviphone on top of Netbooks, Laptop Sticks, etc.

    They have always sold at least one decent device for every smartphone OS, pretty much, and I don't expect that to change.

    AT&T had a contract with Apple and businesses cannot make plans assuming contracts will be extended. It comes as no suprise that ~1 year before the contract was over, they have launched Android phones and introduced a number of Android superphones on their network.

    Keep in mind that while there are people who will go to Verizon for an Android phone, there are also people who may go to AT&T for their great Android phones because AT&T never had a high end Android phone until the Captivate, and pretty much every carrier got a Galaxy S phone, anyways. Devices like th ATRIX 4G will probably peel customers off of other carriers. It will surely peel me.
    01-12-11 03:53 AM
  22. pcgizmo#IM's Avatar
    AT&T sells high end phones for practically every smartphone OS. That statement doesn't really prove anything.
    AT&T's selling "high-end phones for every platform" didn't mean the end of Blackberry on AT&T, and it will be the same on VZW. iphone will take sales away from android more than Blackberry.

    They have Palm Pre/Pixi....
    Lmao....still?
    01-12-11 07:36 AM
  23. Shodan775's Avatar
    people are going to wise and up and realize they are being massively overcharged for data when they buy bb

    That's not true at all. I have both iphone4 and torch and the iphone4 is a data vampire, even if you only have a moderate number of applications. I can't even imagine how much the data usage for those who littered their ip4 with hundreds of apps.
    01-12-11 08:04 AM
  24. Slapnpop826's Avatar
    Excellent discussion. Interesting points made. I want RIM to succeed. I will personally be moving to the iphone 4 or the thunderbolt. But I'm hoping a Storm 3 will have me conflicted again this time next year.
    01-12-11 03:37 PM
  25. apalm8's Avatar
    I think Blackberry will lose market share in 2010 and when they come out with the QNX devices they better be more amazing than anything else out there if they want to regain that market share back...
    01-12-11 04:20 PM
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