05-26-09 03:19 PM
62 123
tools
  1. thebignewt's Avatar
    OK, we all know that Wifi is faster than any EVDO/3G network when it comes to downloading webpages onto Blackberry phones, there's no question about that anymore. So why (thus far) has Verizon not included WiFi in any of their phones to date? With ATT and Tmobile including it for quite awhile does anyone but me thing that Verizon is looking like a has been because of this? I keep looking for a $$ reason for this, but I can't anymore. Their new Tour phone (basically an 8900 with no WiFi) now looks like it's old even before it comes out. Most people have access to WiFi a lot of the time they are using their phone now. Can anyone shed some light on this (and don't tell me that Wifi isn't a lot faster than EVDO please-because it is)?
    05-21-09 03:43 PM
  2. Jared DiPane's Avatar
    check this thread out and post in there, plenty of talk about verizon and wifi in there...

    http://forums.crackberry.com/f141/verizon-fail-225545/
    05-21-09 03:44 PM
  3. LDubs's Avatar
    Reading (and searching) is fundamental.. Check the thread the previous poster linked to, and do a search for many many many other threads on this same question.

    Also, way to bash a device before it's even released...
    05-21-09 03:49 PM
  4. vatothe0's Avatar
    Why doesn't the iPhone 7 come with interstellar satellite communication?

    Whaa whaa whaa!!

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    05-21-09 04:08 PM
  5. jason.klein's Avatar
    Well, this will also change with the upcoming Storm 2, which DOES have wifi...
    05-21-09 04:27 PM
  6. Jared DiPane's Avatar
    THERE ARE VERIZON DEVICES WITH WI FI. TRY READING MY THREAD:

    VERIZON WI FI DEVICES PRESENTLY AVAILABLE
    Where as you may have found that article with ease, maybe the OP did not. There is no need to be rude, everyone has made posts that others find silly. Try to keep your answers productive and helpful in a nice fashion, and not be mean and disrespectful to other members.

    Forum Guidelines
    Do not flame, insult or post personal attacks against other users. Be courteous, not rude. Any instances or reports of harassment of members will be treated seriously. CrackBerry.com has a zero tolerance policy against this kind of behavior, which may result with an immediate temporary or permanent ban at moderators' discretion. CrackBerry.com is a friendly place - treat members with respect at all times. If you don't have something nice to say, do not say it!
    05-21-09 04:38 PM
  7. thebignewt's Avatar
    I'm not bashing anything, I was just asking if anyone knew a reason for leaving it out. I see the thread under 9630. From what I see there CDMA network and WiFi just may not be compatable in BB phones. I'm not technically up on that but there has to be a reason and that sounds good. They'd like to have it I'm sure and I'm sure they're working on it because leaving it out is making them look a little bit behind the times IMO. I know I won't go back there until they have WiFi for BB phones and they have the best overall coverage where I live.
    (BTW it would be nice if msherro could have included a link to his thread. If he had read my post it had to do with Blackberry devices and I don't think any have WiFi on Verizon yet.)
    Last edited by thebignewt; 05-21-09 at 04:44 PM.
    05-21-09 04:41 PM
  8. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    This subject has been covered ad-nauseum within these pages. Many are tired of the repetition and, as will happen on so many sites, frustration does occasionally show itself.
    Here are the facts:

    VZW doesn't block WiFi or have it removed, any more than any other CDMA carrier does. If they did, why are there WiFi devices sold by VZW & other CDMA carriers? Witness several HTC, Moto & Samsung CDMA devices currently or previously available on VZW, Sprint, etc.

    WiFi is not necessarily faster than EV-DO, but the way WiFi connects to the device may be.

    WiFi eats up battery resources at a much faster rate than either CDMA or GSM technologies. Considering that RIM takes pride in the battery life of BlackBerrys in general, the smaller BlackBerrys may not have room for the extra battery capacity, more complex CDMA circuitry & GPS to achieve what they feel is an acceptable battery life rating. Look at comparisons between current CDMA BlackBerrys & competitors like Samsung Omnia/Saga & you will find the competition generally scores better than BlackBerry except in battery life. Most tech sites that aren't based or tied to a certain platform, like this one is, pan the Samsungs only in this regard. Taking an objective view of these reviews would lead you to believe the shorter battery life may be a deal breaker for some - especially for those who have no interest in WiFi.

    If you are in an area of the country without CDMA coverage, what do you think the odds are of having a WiFi broadband connection? Sure, some will say they have minimal signal at their office, but good WiFi, but all too many of those don't have access permissions to that connection anyway.

    Take a look at the Curve (8300-8330) lineup - how many of them had both aGPS and WiFi? Even on AT&T & T-Mobile, you chose one or the other - not both. With this in mind, I could come up with a business reason for VZW to ask for GPS instead of WiFi & that is VZNav. They make money on VZNav, but not WiFi. Yet what excuse is there for other carriers to make the same choice, when not all CDMA carriers necessarily offer a subscription based navigation app?

    I have had RIM & Qualcomm engineers tell me there were technical limitations with conflicts between CDMA & WiFi - but I think this is only part of the story. I think the technical limitations are caused by having a set size for the device, coupled with battery life expectations. Based on what I mentioned a few paragraphs ago, one could then make a case for technical limitations precluding havinf WiFi, CDMA, GPS and reasonable battery life in an 8300-8330 series Curve or a Pearl.

    RIM figured out how to do WiFi & GPS in the Bold, but that is a GSM device with a much larger form factor.

    Lastly, don't bet on Niagara or Storm2 having WiFi. There were reports that the Storm & original Curve would have WiFi & GPS. We know that didn't happen and history of bad rumors may repeat. From what I've been told, Storm2 might have it, while Niagara probably will not.

    And remember, I was the first one to mention Storm2 in this forum probably 6 weeks before it popped up - I was panned for even claiming RIM was creating a Storm replacement so soon. Now we have a Storm2 discussion forum on CB. Go figure.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    05-21-09 05:14 PM
  9. mab4285's Avatar
    This subject has been covered ad-nauseum within these pages. Many are tired of the repetition and, as will happen on so many sites, frustration does occasionally show itself.
    Here are the facts:

    VZW doesn't block WiFi or have it removed, any more than any other CDMA carrier does. If they did, why are there WiFi devices sold by VZW & other CDMA carriers? Witness several HTC, Moto & Samsung CDMA devices currently or previously available on VZW, Sprint, etc.

    WiFi is not necessarily faster than EV-DO, but the way WiFi connects to the device may be.

    WiFi eats up battery resources at a much faster rate than either CDMA or GSM technologies. Considering that RIM takes pride in the battery life of BlackBerrys in general, the smaller BlackBerrys may not have room for the extra battery capacity, more complex CDMA circuitry & GPS to achieve what they feel is an acceptable battery life rating. Look at comparisons between current CDMA BlackBerrys & competitors like Samsung Omnia/Saga & you will find the competition generally scores better than BlackBerry except in battery life. Most tech sites that aren't based or tied to a certain platform, like this one is, pan the Samsungs only in this regard. Taking an objective view of these reviews would lead you to believe the shorter battery life may be a deal breaker for some - especially for those who have no interest in WiFi.

    If you are in an area of the country without CDMA coverage, what do you think the odds are of having a WiFi broadband connection? Sure, some will say they have minimal signal at their office, but good WiFi, but all too many of those don't have access permissions to that connection anyway.

    Take a look at the Curve (8300-8330) lineup - how many of them had both aGPS and WiFi? Even on AT&T & T-Mobile, you chose one or the other - not both. With this in mind, I could come up with a business reason for VZW to ask for GPS instead of WiFi & that is VZNav. They make money on VZNav, but not WiFi. Yet what excuse is there for other carriers to make the same choice, when not all CDMA carriers necessarily offer a subscription based navigation app?

    I have had RIM & Qualcomm engineers tell me there were technical limitations with conflicts between CDMA & WiFi - but I think this is only part of the story. I think the technical limitations are caused by having a set size for the device, coupled with battery life expectations. Based on what I mentioned a few paragraphs ago, one could then make a case for technical limitations precluding havinf WiFi, CDMA, GPS and reasonable battery life in an 8300-8330 series Curve or a Pearl.

    RIM figured out how to do WiFi & GPS in the Bold, but that is a GSM device with a much larger form factor.

    Lastly, don't bet on Niagara or Storm2 having WiFi. There were reports that the Storm & original Curve would have WiFi & GPS. We know that didn't happen and history of bad rumors may repeat. From what I've been told, Storm2 might have it, while Niagara probably will not.

    And remember, I was the first one to mention Storm2 in this forum probably 6 weeks before it popped up - I was panned for even claiming RIM was creating a Storm replacement so soon. Now we have a Storm2 discussion forum on CB. Go figure.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Don't forget that the 8900 Curve has GPS and WiFi as well, and that's a smaller phone....
    05-21-09 05:16 PM
  10. cenloe's Avatar
    Because Verizon, mandated by the Federal Government, must be able to turn over any and all call, text, mms and data information that it keeps on each of it's users that utilize Blackberrys. Why just Blackberrys you ask? Well because the majority of RIM's servers are in Canada and the Feds consider this a security risk, one that they arent willing to take. With wi-fi as an option, any terrorist or trickster could bypass the warrantless wiretapping initiated by the last admistration and wi-fi their way to terrorist heaven.

    Scary isnt it?

    Next week I will cover why aliens probe only Windows Mobile and Sprint users.
    Last edited by cenloe; 05-21-09 at 05:38 PM.
    05-21-09 05:31 PM
  11. thebignewt's Avatar
    TwinsX2Dad: I know this has been covered. I've been interested in technical reasons for Vzn omitting WiFi in BB phones for some time. There has to be a reason. What usually starts is a bunch of rants about why you don't need it, Vzn is SO fast and SO everywhere yaddayadda. I'm really not interested in that. What I've been able to gather is that it may be about battery life, which makes sense. You throw in the pay-per-GPS issue (vs. free WiFi), another Vzn glitch for years. If it's not a technical/security issue with BB phones and CDMA/quadband Vzn network then that's a good guess. I think it's significant that we BB forum bloggers have to guess about this and that Vzn hasn't released any info. They can't keep hiding their head in the sand forever IMO. They hid about the locked GPS issue for years until they lost business and had to offer free services last year. There's a fine line between charging your customers a monthly GPS fee and losing customers to networks that give GPS away for free. The bean counters keep track, I bet they're keeping track of WiFi too.
    Last edited by thebignewt; 05-21-09 at 06:19 PM.
    05-21-09 06:16 PM
  12. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    Don't forget that the 8900 Curve has GPS and WiFi as well, and that's a smaller phone....
    Why do I keep forhetting about that phone? Old age must be setting in & I probably shouldve mentioned that. Still, it is GSM, which is a little different animal.

    I need to take time to look at the specs for the Curve2 to compare against Curve1. Maybe there have been some improvements or maybe RIM might have reduced their battery expectations...
    Because Verizon, mandated by the Federal Government, must be able to turn over any and all call, text, mms and data information that it keeps on each of it's users that utilize Blackberrys. Why just Blackberrys you ask? Well because the majority of RIM's servers are in Canada and the Feds consider this a security risk, one that they arent willing to take. With wi-fi as an option, any terrorist or trickster could bypass the warrantless wiretapping initiated by the last admistration and wi-fi their way to terrorist heaven.

    Scary isnt it?

    Next week I will cover why aliens probe only Windows Mobile and Sprint users.
    LOL! I believe all of that, up to & including the words "Because Verizon." Anything after that, we need to talk about, because I think you're withholding the rest of the story.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    05-21-09 06:21 PM
  13. scurvydlicious's Avatar
    Don't forget that the 8900 Curve has GPS and WiFi as well, and that's a smaller phone....
    Don't forget the 8900 isn't 3G either.
    05-21-09 06:23 PM
  14. mab4285's Avatar
    Don't forget the 8900 isn't 3G either.
    never said it was....
    05-21-09 06:29 PM
  15. scurvydlicious's Avatar
    never said it was....
    Didn't mean to make you cry. But I was just saying the reason it has wi-fi and GPS and a smaller form factor, could possibly be due to not having 3G.
    05-21-09 06:31 PM
  16. mab4285's Avatar
    Didn't mean to make you cry. But I was just saying the reason it has wi-fi and GPS and a smaller form factor, could possibly be due to not having 3G.
    Not crying man...just stating facts....and you're right...it may be because it doesn't have 3G, but who knows.... No need to get your panties in a bunch
    05-21-09 06:33 PM
  17. scurvydlicious's Avatar
    Not crying man...just stating facts....and you're right...it may be because it doesn't have 3G, but who knows.... No need to get your panties in a bunch
    That's the way I like them.... bunched up in my mouth Sorry my replies are so bland and heartless. I was also just stating facts, not trying to make friends. Maybe I should change the demeanor of my messages. I am sorry.
    05-21-09 06:36 PM
  18. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    TwinsX2Dad: I know this has been covered. I've been interested in technical reasons for Vzn omitting WiFi in BB phones for some time. There has to be a reason. What usually starts is a bunch of rants about why you don't need it, Vzn is SO fast and SO everywhere yaddayadda. I'm really not interested in that. What I've been able to gather is that it may be about battery life, which makes sense. You throw in the pay-per-GPS issue (vs. free WiFi), another Vzn glitch for years. If it's not a technical/security issue with BB phones and CDMA/quadband Vzn network then that's a good guess. I think it's significant that we BB forum bloggers have to guess about this and that Vzn hasn't released any info. They can't keep hiding their head in the sand forever IMO. They hid about the locked GPS issue for years until they lost business and had to offer free services last year. There's a fine line between charging your customers a monthly GPS fee and losing customers to networks that give GPS away for free. The bean counters keep track, I bet they're keeping track of WiFi too.
    Well for one, taking out the Alltel merger gains in customers, VZW has gained customers - and at a rate outpacing the other three largest carriers - so I don't know how you figure they've been losing customers over anything.

    For two - and I repeat this reluctantly - VZW has never blocked WiFi - I have HTC devices on VZW from several years ago that had WiFi, along with a battery life that would get me from the charger to the truck.

    GPS is also a no-brainer. I have a Curve with autonomous GPS & another without. Different interbal chipsets. I have also taken Sprint & Alltel phones, activated them on VZW without any software/firmware changes & the GPS didn't work. Did the same thing with VZW phones - activated on Sprint with no software/firmware changes & the GPS worked. So it isn't a device block. Rather, it is a network incompatibility with VZW's proprietary PDE & their efforts in customer & network privacy/security.

    If the device maker makes a phone with autonomous GPS and/or with WiFi, VZW will sell it. Until then, you won't get it - you cannot have WiFi without a WiFi radio (and VZW has sold them for years) and you will not get open PDE access for assisted GPS functionality until the third-party application software vendor agrees to VZW's security & privacy policies.

    Those policies may seem draconian to some, but it is not causing any discernable exodus from the ranks of VZW customers.

    That's the way I like them.... bunched up in my mouth Sorry my replies are so bland and heartless. I was also just stating facts, not trying to make friends. Maybe I should change the demeanor of my messages. I am sorry.
    Hey - I like them that way, too. Righr to the point, without added fluff. No need wasting ether on flowery prose.

    The PC attitude of "thou shalt not offend" is for the birds.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    05-21-09 06:49 PM
  19. RicanMedic78's Avatar
    I have good feeling that vz learned its lesson about this subject which is why we're hearing about wifi across the board from every tech site. Even on the original storm, the chatter wasn't this loud.

    Its just a shame that the Tour prob wont have it. Its not so much that I have to have wifi this very second, its just that for most people, just like me, I get a new device one to two years apart and I would definitely not be able to settle with another device for this amount of time without the technology.

    It was way overdue even when I got my curve last spring! Purchasing a non wifi device again just gives vz the green light to continue the practice. If more people follow suit and their #s go down simply because of this limitation (among others), things change. Things have probably already changed
    Last edited by RicanMedic78; 05-21-09 at 08:09 PM.
    05-21-09 07:05 PM
  20. vatothe0's Avatar
    You do realize Verizon Wireless has had the lowest rate of customers leaving for 18 consecutive quarters right? That didn't happen because they make bad decisions.
    05-21-09 08:06 PM
  21. RicanMedic78's Avatar
    thats all well and good. The blackberry market is a lot smaller than their entire customer base! And even a 5% drop in customer retention is something to take note of!
    05-21-09 08:10 PM
  22. thebignewt's Avatar
    You do realize Verizon Wireless has had the lowest rate of customers leaving for 18 consecutive quarters right? That didn't happen because they make bad decisions.
    Maybe excluding WiFi is their best bet with BB phones because of battery life issues. I think most of their customers use their GIN features which load pretty fast and give you movie times and little news/sports updates. Their GPS Nav thing works really fast and plenty of people pay their fee (my son loves it). They don't need WiFi for that stuff so maybe they're good to go the way they are. I think Vzn is a good carrier, I had them for years. I actually went to Tmob just to get the 8100, and I am happy with them too. I think a lot of Vzn people don't need data really, they can get that GIN service for like $10/mo, add GPS for a little more and be fine with their phones. Good for them
    05-21-09 08:19 PM
  23. vatothe0's Avatar
    thats all well and good. The blackberry market is a lot smaller than their entire customer base! And even a 5% drop in customer retention is something to take note of!
    And the market for people that care about wifi is even smaller which is why there are very few phones that have it and yet Verizon adds customers hand over fist every quarter of every year.
    05-21-09 08:20 PM
  24. RicanMedic78's Avatar
    And the market for people that care about wifi is even smaller which is why there are very few phones that have it and yet Verizon adds customers hand over fist every quarter of every year.
    guess thats y its one of the main topics on any blog or any tech review out there, even crackberry! guess thats why theres so few topics on wifi on this forum
    Last edited by RicanMedic78; 05-21-09 at 08:27 PM.
    05-21-09 08:25 PM
  25. vatothe0's Avatar
    Maybe you didn't get the memo that tech blogs don't run the world. Crackberry might have a million users, worldwide. Verizon has 87 million customers in one country. I would bet 2 million of them have Blackberries.

    Nobody that matters, cares.
    05-21-09 08:29 PM
62 123
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD