02-01-09 01:00 PM
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  1. bbgeek7's Avatar
    Why is it that vz does not allow wi-fi on their blackberry devices? I'll bet you that the niagara will not support wi-fi when it comes out.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    01-26-09 08:12 AM
  2. Jared DiPane's Avatar
    probably the niagra will not, you are correct, but with the coverage they offer, and the speeds, do you really need the wifi?
    01-26-09 08:15 AM
  3. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    It has nothing to do with VZW. Curves & Pearls are made with either GPS or WiFi. All CDMA BlackBerrys are made only with GPS.

    VZW has no issues with WiFi. Witness the WinMo devices with it. The device first must be WiFi capable. VZW cannot add hardware capability the maker didn't include.

    In the current run of BlackBerrys there is no room for two radios AND GPS.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Last edited by TwinsX2Dad; 01-26-09 at 10:04 AM.
    01-26-09 09:59 AM
  4. ksat's Avatar
    It has nothing to do with VZW. Curves & Pearls are made with either GPS or WiFi. All CDMA BlackBerrys are made only with GPS.

    VZW has no issues with WiFi. Witness the WinMo devices with it. The device first must be WiFi capable. VZW cannot add hardware capability the maker didn't include.

    In the current run of BlackBerrys there is no room for two radios AND GPS.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    I'm not sure I entirely agree, TwinsX2Dad. While this is personal presumption, I believe each carrier provides a list of requirements to the hardware manufacturer and identifies a list of features to include in their phones. Manufacturer probably comes back and provides a price quote per 1000 phones, or something. In this, the carrier is clearly identifying what features are to be included. Maybe Verizon feels the WinMo phones have more of a need for WiFi due to their roots as a stand-alone PDA device where BlackBerry has always (to my knowledge) been a phone or simple pager-type of device(cellular network vs. wifi), an environment where WiFi wasn't very useful.

    I agree that VZW will probably order Niagara's w/o WiFi even though the Bold big brother has it as a standard feature. I sure would like to see VZW surprise us all with this, though!!!
    01-26-09 11:44 AM
  5. vatothe0's Avatar
    So you're just going to ignore the fact that there is no such thing as a CDMA BlackBerry with wifi?

    Verizon is not the only CDMA carrier in the world you know....

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    01-26-09 12:59 PM
  6. Ponderous's Avatar
    So its because it CDMA that it doesn't have wifi? How do they fit radio, gps, and wifi in the iPhone? Yes, I know the iPhone is not cdman but its such a small form factor with all three. If/when iPhone comes to vzw, think it'll have wifi?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    01-26-09 01:07 PM
  7. secretagentberry's Avatar
    hopefully the iphone wont come to verizon because verizon will loose money on it just like att is doing. second, verizon doesnt make the phones, but they often tell the makers how to make them. RIM said in an official press release that there was room on the circuit board of the storm for wifi, but verizon requested that wifi be excluded. IPHONE SUCKS
    01-26-09 02:01 PM
  8. vatothe0's Avatar
    Please link us to this official press release.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    01-26-09 02:42 PM
  9. rwking's Avatar
    I've asked this very same question the past 3 years to some of VZW's biggest names including the former CEO (Strigle) and current CEO McAdam. According to both of them, Wifi is NOT a priority because with devices like Blackberries, they require a constant data connection anyhow which is why we charge $29.99/$44.99 for the Blackberry BIS/BES data plans.

    Note the words REQUIRE A CONSTANT DATA CONNECTION...this is a Blackberry requirement. Thus making wifi a redundant service. VZW would rather see GPS on their devices.

    VZW does not shy away from Wifi, we have plenty of windows mobile products that carry wifi. Just not Blackberries. And you can bet that the next generation of BBs prob won't have wifi either. This is not confirmed, just a guess.
    01-26-09 08:42 PM
  10. CrimsonClad's Avatar
    The only time I've found myself missing WiFi is when I'm on planes that offer the service. That's really been the only time I've missed it. As that service becomes more widespread, the lack of WiFi could become a problem, but right now the network is awesome.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    01-26-09 09:00 PM
  11. RicanMedic78's Avatar
    It has nothing to do with VZW. Curves & Pearls are made with either GPS or WiFi. All CDMA BlackBerrys are made only with GPS.

    VZW has no issues with WiFi. Witness the WinMo devices with it. The device first must be WiFi capable. VZW cannot add hardware capability the maker didn't include.

    In the current run of BlackBerrys there is no room for two radios AND GPS.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    oh, u mean that little worthless piece of **** GPS chip that verizon locks down in an act of extortion?
    Last edited by RicanMedic78; 01-27-09 at 07:22 AM.
    01-26-09 09:12 PM
  12. Sith_Apprentice's Avatar
    Verizon doesnt want a BB with Verizon so they dont order them. They cant charge users when using WiFi for data, but they do require the data plan on their devices. RIM builds devices based on what the carrier requests of the available options.

    For instance, the only reason the Bold exists in the form it does, when it was made, was because AT&T the then largest BB carrier in the world wanted a 3G BB. Vzw the now largest BB carrier in the world (and Voda since they are part and parcel with VZW) wanted a Touchscreen device, ergo the Storm
    01-26-09 09:16 PM
  13. ksat's Avatar
    because with devices like Blackberries, they require a constant data connection anyhow which is why we charge $29.99/$44.99 for the Blackberry BIS/BES data plans.

    Note the words REQUIRE A CONSTANT DATA CONNECTION...this is a Blackberry requirement. Thus making wifi a redundant service. VZW would rather see GPS on their devices.

    FYI - this isn't entirely true. AT&T allows BlackBerry's to be used without a data package. A friend of mine is currently configured this way - he got rid of his data package completely.

    To be useful, yes - I would completely agree that a BlackBerry needs a constant data connection. VZW requires a data package, this is true.
    01-26-09 09:24 PM
  14. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    As for the comments regarding the GPS with VZW, check the specs of every Curve made - both CDMA & GSM - aGPS. In other words, ASSISTED GPS. Oops. Opening it up to any app seriously compromises your privacy.

    As for the WiFi comments, tell me of any Curve that RIM makes that provides both GPS & WiFi.

    Some people have it backwards. The carriers do not order custom phones. The manufacturer offers something up and the carriers get to tell them what they will take & what to leave off.

    It is interesting that people say VZW doesn't allow WiFi, when I have several smartsphones with the VZW logo on them that do have WiFi radios in them.

    For the conspiracy nuts out there, learn more about the industry before you fall in with the cheap opinions available online for those with little discernment for truth.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    01-26-09 10:33 PM
  15. RicanMedic78's Avatar
    i see a lot of post on here by ppl who claim to be in "THE KNOW" about these types of things! So... since u claim to know, it must mean that u sit at the negotiating table and see these processes in action right???

    Or can I use a little reverse psychology and say your doing the EXACT same thing I am doing and JUST GUESSING based on what you see.

    I guess in favor of the opinion that verizon is always trying to just make a buck. I feel this way because the evidence is that every single practice they use is about makin money, fairly or unfairly. So I put little faith in the idea that they are not responsible for what RIM puts out for them.

    Until I know FACTS, I will always opt against verizon because of their track record. Make sense? I think it does!

    Also, at the end of the day, it may be correct that both GPS and WIFI radios dont fit in the form factor of the curve as it is currently. But, just as nextel requested it for its push to talk and made it slightly larger to acomodate that, if its something verizon wanted, they can push for the same thing. So even if it turned out that they did not push to have wifi eliminated, its def true that they did not fight to have it in there either. And I'm pretty sure I know why that is, especially considering that a data plan is required! Can't justify having a "required" data plan if you have wifi now can you?

    Follow the drops that lead you to water my friends!!!
    Last edited by RicanMedic78; 01-27-09 at 08:04 AM.
    01-27-09 07:32 AM
  16. Sith_Apprentice's Avatar
    As for the comments regarding the GPS with VZW, check the specs of every Curve made - both CDMA & GSM - aGPS. In other words, ASSISTED GPS. Oops. Opening it up to any app seriously compromises your privacy.

    As for the WiFi comments, tell me of any Curve that RIM makes that provides both GPS & WiFi.
    Some people have it backwards. The carriers do not order custom phones. The manufacturer offers something up and the carriers get to tell them what they will take & what to leave off.

    It is interesting that people say VZW doesn't allow WiFi, when I have several smartsphones with the VZW logo on them that do have WiFi radios in them.

    For the conspiracy nuts out there, learn more about the industry before you fall in with the cheap opinions available online for those with little discernment for truth.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Survey says.... 8350i...

    And that is a CLEAR case of Sprint going to RIM and saying they want another iDEN device (which includes GPS) and they added WiFi because iDEN has terrible data transfer rates. So they have a device with a better data portion, that gives the voice, PTT, and GPS that iDEN users want.
    01-27-09 07:42 AM
  17. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    Survey says.... 8350i...

    And that is a CLEAR case of Sprint going to RIM and saying they want another iDEN device (which includes GPS) and they added WiFi because iDEN has terrible data transfer rates. So they have a device with a better data portion, that gives the voice, PTT, and GPS that iDEN users want.
    Not quite - iDEN is a different animal altogether, with a radio that lends itself to dual-band operation. It is also marketed toward business users, mainly contractors.

    Also notice it is longer, thicker & heavier than the CDMA/GSM Curves - plenty of room to fit in more componentry. The real world battery life is also about a third that of an 8330. I do believe that it is NOT a 3G device.

    RIM saw a market & some extra capacity & made a radio for the Nextel crowd. It may very well be the last high-end Nextel device made.

    The rest of us don't want a bloated battery sucker.
    Last edited by TwinsX2Dad; 01-27-09 at 01:31 PM.
    01-27-09 07:58 AM
  18. RicanMedic78's Avatar
    It is also marketed toward business users, mainly contractors.
    yea... as oppossed to verizon blackberries which are marketed to kids like sidekicks right?

    I sure hope you work as some sort of "higher up" because you speak a lot of specifics about RIM and the carriers and claim to know absolute truths on what they do and negotiate behind closed doors! And then you claim that those of us on the other side are doing all the guess work.

    If u turn out to be some janitor posting here on ur spare time, I'ma be pissed off that I took the time to give your posts actual thought

    Last edited by RicanMedic78; 01-27-09 at 08:49 AM.
    01-27-09 08:47 AM
  19. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    yea... as oppossed to verizon blackberries which are marketed to kids like sidekicks right?
    As if the dominant Nextel feature (Push-to-Talk), with its premium pricing & limited coverage area would be attractive to many non-business types. Plus, what do you think the Pearl & Storm are targeting? Certainly not doctors, lawyers or CEOs. More like moms & teens. All carriers have started pushing BlackBerrys to everyone. More revenue that way.

    I sure hope you work as some sort of "higher up" because you speak a lot of specifics about RIM and the carriers and claim to know absolute truths on what they do and negotiate behind closed doors!
    when did I ever say anything about absolute truths? I write what I write based on reason, common sense & experience from many decades in the industry, and make no claims as to absolute truths. I do not work as a VZW employee, which is an advantage. Rather, I am a partner in a communications infrastructure contracting company that does business with a variety of carriers, both domestically & internationally. So you could say I work for VZW, but the same can be said for any number of carriers.

    As far as what I know, I can tell the difference between a Lucent or Nortel switch & can readily identify a Qualcomm chipset & Pirelli fiber optics cables. I also know no carrier can offer anything that a manufacturer does not make.

    If u turn out to be some janitor posting here on ur spare time, I'ma be pissed off that I took the time to give your posts actual thought
    If you turn out to be a dishwasher at Mario's Italian Bistro, I'ma notta gonna worry about it'a. If you seem to know what you're talking about, using reason, logic & good intent toward the community here as a whole, I will listen. If not, I will be out there, calling you out for your inccuracies.

    Read & believe what you will. It really matters little to me.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    01-27-09 01:29 PM
  20. RicanMedic78's Avatar
    I'm not lashing out at u in any way so don't take it that way, hense the goofy faces. I just don't truely understand why ppl back up and defend practices when they are clearly enacted as revenue makers for the company. GPS is crippled, thats a fact. Its not because its AGPS as some ppl keep saying, its because its GPS period that has been reprogramed to be locked down! I don't understand why ppl keep on defending it. And then when they are backed into a corner, then they admit it and then begin to argue that they (verizon) have the right to do it and if we don't like it, choose another company. Which in theory is fine if its an argument one wants to make. But I just don't understand the uphill battle in convincing ppl to support something that isn't just right in principle, but also in their personal interest as well! Make sense?
    01-27-09 01:57 PM
  21. RicanMedic78's Avatar
    as for data... I do know one thing. It is required when in all reality, it doesn't have to be (codes need to be put in to change it as ppl have done it). I also know that its not in their interest to place wifi radios in their blackberries.

    So me being a laymen to communications (in part), I put 2 and 2 together and figure, why add wifi and give the customer a justifiable reason to argue that they should not be required to get data when wifi is free and in most cases, abundant!

    And then lastly, when you get a cheap reason for no GPS like, "we're protecting your privacy," can't you just see right through that? Guess storm users privacy is not an issue huh? So please, STOP DEFENDING THESE PRACTICES! The more we unit, the faster they will fix these blemishes and serve the customer rather than the bottom line!
    Last edited by RicanMedic78; 01-27-09 at 02:01 PM.
    01-27-09 01:59 PM
  22. briankeith513's Avatar
    As others have said, their is not one single cdma blackberry for any carrier, not just Verizon that has wifi? The only one is the Iden Blackberry Curve, that was just released. This is fact. If it were Verizon that asked for RIM not to include wifi, why doesn't Sprint's, Alltel's or any other cdma carrier's 8330, 8130, or 8830 have wifi?

    Second, if Verizon didn't want wifi, why do they allow it on their winmo devices?

    Third, it can't be a money thing with Verizon, first of all, Verizon requires a data plan whether your phone has wifi or not, so it's not a money issue.

    Why do people keep making stuff like this up, even with the proof that I said above, and that others have also pointed out?
    01-27-09 02:12 PM
  23. codeyh's Avatar
    It's frustrating that even when an iDEN phone can have WiFi, the CDMA's can't.
    01-27-09 03:06 PM
  24. scurvydlicious's Avatar
    i see a lot of post on here by ppl who claim to be in "THE KNOW" about these types of things! So... since u claim to know, it must mean that u sit at the negotiating table and see these processes in action right???

    Or can I use a little reverse psychology and say your doing the EXACT same thing I am doing and JUST GUESSING based on what you see.

    I guess in favor of the opinion that verizon is always trying to just make a buck. I feel this way because the evidence is that every single practice they use is about makin money, fairly or unfairly. So I put little faith in the idea that they are not responsible for what RIM puts out for them.

    Until I know FACTS, I will always opt against verizon because of their track record. Make sense? I think it does!

    Also, at the end of the day, it may be correct that both GPS and WIFI radios dont fit in the form factor of the curve as it is currently. But, just as nextel requested it for its push to talk and made it slightly larger to acomodate that, if its something verizon wanted, they can push for the same thing. So even if it turned out that they did not push to have wifi eliminated, its def true that they did not fight to have it in there either. And I'm pretty sure I know why that is, especially considering that a data plan is required! Can't justify having a "required" data plan if you have wifi now can you?

    Follow the drops that lead you to water my friends!!!
    I didn't read the comments on page 2, so if this was already pointed out, I apologize. First, the 8350i is garbage. Sure, it has wi-fi and push to talk and gps, but it's not 3g. So, unless you're near a wi-fi hotspot, then the data speeds are super slow. Second, the last comment you made about not being able to require a data plan when a phone has wi-fi, just so you know, the Samsung Saga and Samsung Omnia both have wi-fi and both require a data plan.
    01-27-09 03:45 PM
  25. scurvydlicious's Avatar
    It's frustrating that even when an iDEN phone can have WiFi, the CDMA's can't.
    It only makes sense for an iDEN phone to have wi-fi because iDEN's coverage area is tiny and doesn't penetrate buildings well. I had Nextel for a year and a half, while working at FedEx and unless I was on the interstate or downtown, I could not get a signal anywhere. Also, iDEN is not 3G, so the download speeds when in a coverage area, are really slow. So, wi-fi would be almost a necessity for that Berry.
    01-27-09 04:17 PM
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