02-19-14 02:14 AM
42 12
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  1. undone's Avatar
    Really, you're making things up.

    Given the CDMA network technology requirements and various other reasons (ie, law enforcement, among many others), there is NO reason why a network provider like Verizon would propagate a "synthetic time" throughout their network, and in fact it would be a complete absurdity, because they would have to create their own global time reference to keep that synchronized, which is independent of the wireless network itself, ie launch their own constellation of satellites to replicate what GPS/Glonass/Beidou/Galileo SATNAV systems already provide.

    The CDMA network requires better than one MICROsecond time synchronization between every single tower. Trust me, the network "knows" the correct time. Every single tower has a GPS receiver as part of the radio.

    CDMA System Time (CDG Technology : Welcome to the World of CDMA)

    The issue is either the time-reference provided to end-user devices is off, or there is something with the timesync implementation in BlackBerry 10 that is not working properly.

    Given what some others have said which I take to mean other non-BlackBerry devices on Verizon's network also have inaccurate clocks, it's looking like the former at this point.






    Well you must be correct then.
    Sure the Verizon network knows it clocked time related to Zulu. And I bet there drift is like 5-10 secs easy. Doesn't really matter how fast CDMA can update time, if Verizon's internal network is set to have a deviation +- 5-20 secs that what you get. Also they could be purposely doing this as well. VPN Tunnels require sync'ed time, good way to stop that is not have perfect time.

    The examples of time problems I noticed on Verizon's forums where not only BB 10 devices. Android and Apple devices as well.
    01-15-14 12:04 PM
  2. pkcable's Avatar
    He simply asked a question that was bothering him ... no need to tell him to relax about it... and no need to make fun...

    Omnitech your best bet is to call your carrier and ask them.. maybe your device needs to be resynced to the network.
    Spade, I'm pretty sure BBW was only joking. Additionally it's best to let us handle this stuff. OT and BBW are already PMing about this and OT has already spoken to me, you should leave it alone. Except of course for the advise about contacting Verizon.


    That being said. I am with other who are of the belief that this is a Verizon issue, and not limited to the BB10 devices. Additionally sometimes we have to ask ourselves how important is it? a 10 second time deviation does not really make much of a difference in the grand scheme of things does it?
    BigBadWulf likes this.
    01-15-14 12:30 PM
  3. MayorHaji's Avatar
    Spade, I'm pretty sure BBW
    *stops reading*

    *blinks twice*

    Wulf is a *cough* BBW?!?

    *runs for toilet to puke*


    The Mayor hath spoken.
    BigBadWulf and pkcable like this.
    01-15-14 01:51 PM
  4. pkcable's Avatar
    *stops reading*

    *blinks twice*

    Wulf is a *cough* BBW?!?

    *runs for toilet to puke*


    The Mayor hath spoken.
    If you saw him in person as I have then you would REALLY know how funny this joke is!!!!! LOL And folks this IS a joke they are friends.
    BigBadWulf likes this.
    01-15-14 02:45 PM
  5. MayorHaji's Avatar
    If you saw him in person as I have then you would REALLY know how funny this joke is!!!!! LOL And folks this IS a joke they are friends.
    Yes. We've met several times. Hahaha.

    The Mayor hath spoken.
    BigBadWulf likes this.
    01-15-14 02:53 PM
  6. BigBadWulf's Avatar
    Dang shame. If members would simply PM someone for clarification, instead of presuming the worst, we probably wouldn't have half the fighting we have now.

    Waiting for an answer to this "issue", from someone at VZW, so we can put this baby to rest

    Edit - Make that PM the person who wrote it for clarification. 3rd party guesses at what someone meant, not so good.
    pkcable likes this.
    01-15-14 04:06 PM
  7. peter0328's Avatar
    Sure the Verizon network knows it clocked time related to Zulu. And I bet there drift is like 5-10 secs easy. Doesn't really matter how fast CDMA can update time, if Verizon's internal network is set to have a deviation +- 5-20 secs that what you get. Also they could be purposely doing this as well. VPN Tunnels require sync'ed time, good way to stop that is not have perfect time.

    The examples of time problems I noticed on Verizon's forums where not only BB 10 devices. Android and Apple devices as well.
    I just thought of something. Maybe this is why Remote File Access over the Verizon network has NEVER been reliable, if anyone gets it to ever work at all.

    Posted via CB10
    01-15-14 09:16 PM
  8. Omnitech's Avatar
    Yes. We've met several times. Hahaha.

    The Mayor hath spoken.


    A truly big surprise.
    01-15-14 11:36 PM
  9. canuckvoip's Avatar
    Digital communications does not work without atomic clocks. Omni is right.
    There are two atomic clocks in Canada, one in Calgary, and one in Ottawa. Oddly, there is only one in the USA (can't remember where). Of course there are others elsewhere...
    These clocks are all synced with the main clock in Greenwich (ever heard of Greenwich meantime?). All digital PBX systems "clock/sync" to the carrier (Telus/Bell/AT&T etc) central office. In turn, those carrier digital services are synced ultimately to an atomic clock.
    When digital communications systems get out of sync, bad things happen. In the short term (seconds) conversations are garbled and connections are lost. If the issue remains communications cannot be re-established. In other words, if you cannot sync with the clock, you get NOTHING.
    Your cell is digital, but your voice is quite possibly transmitted between switches/locations via VOIP/SIP routers.
    Not sure what is up with VZW, but that's just wrong. I should check my Z against Telus.
    01-16-14 01:35 AM
  10. southlander's Avatar
    Just checked a Verizon iPhone 5 a relative has against my Verizon Z10. There is about a 10 second difference. I checked it twice about two hours apart.

    I think it might be something within BlackBerry 10.

    Z10STL100-4/10.2.1.1925
    01-16-14 02:17 AM
  11. canuckvoip's Avatar
    Okay... experiment...
    I checked my phone against my laptop. My laptop is synced to an atomic clock using NTP (network time protocol) which is as Omni mentioned.
    They are exactly the same.
    Then I decided to turn the wifi off on my Z30 to see if there was a difference between my laptop on internet, and my phone on the cell data.
    It may be a trick of the eye, but I'd say the clocks clicked over (second hands) at slightly different intervals but in general had the exact same time again.
    Same thing with wifi on and cell radio off.
    Try that Omni.
    01-16-14 02:24 AM
  12. canuckvoip's Avatar
    Just checked a Verizon iPhone 5 a relative has against my Verizon Z10. There is about a 10 second difference. I checked it twice about two hours apart.

    I think it might be something within BlackBerry 10.

    Z10STL100-4/10.2.1.1925
    Wow...
    Try my experiment against a computer. Toggle the radios like I did. I rebooted after a radio change just to see what would happen. Again, my Z30 is bang on with Telus. This is interesting...

    STA100-5/10.2.1.1925
    Last edited by canuckvoip; 01-16-14 at 02:38 AM.
    01-16-14 02:26 AM
  13. Omnitech's Avatar
    Okay... experiment...
    I checked my phone against my laptop. My laptop is synced to an atomic clock using NTP (network time protocol) which is as Omni mentioned.
    They are exactly the same.
    Then I decided to turn the wifi off on my Z30 to see if there was a difference between my laptop on internet, and my phone on the cell data.
    It may be a trick of the eye, but I'd say the clocks clicked over (second hands) at slightly different intervals but in general had the exact same time again.
    Same thing with wifi on and cell radio off.
    Try that Omni.

    Well the time signal delivered from your carrier in CA is likely correct, whereas it's becoming clear at this point that many people using Verizon in the USA are seeing inaccuracies, as Bla1ze also mentioned earlier here.

    I have also seen evidence of this complaint wrt to Verizon, based on some searches I have done, from a variety of sources outside of Crackberry and BlackBerry devices. Also if you are in CA I do not believe any carriers are running CDMA there any more so the underlying network technology is likely different.

    The time signal on your BB10 device, like most cellular devices, is generally derived from the network itself, not via internet "IP") protocol running over that network. (In networking parlance that would be the Link Layer or Layer 2 of the OSI model, rather than layer 3 or above which is what the internet link would represent.)

    As it so happens, the time accuracy on a properly-run CDMA network is so high that various companies use the CDMA network signal as the foundation of precise time reference equipment that they sell to customers for accurate timekeeping purposes.

    http://www.endruntechnologies.com/cdma.htm

    One issue that afflicted Android devices a few years ago was the OS did not properly compensate for the offset between "civil time" which is based on UTC and what we set our clocks to, and "International Atomic Time" (typically based on GPS or atomic clocks) which does not account for "leap seconds" used in UTC to accomodate earth rotational variations.

    But apparently that wouldn't explain this phenomena either, because apparently the current UTC --> TIA offset is nowhere near 10 seconds.
    01-16-14 03:09 AM
  14. pkcable's Avatar
    Just checked mine and Verizon is 10 to 11 seconds fast. Am I living in the future?
    01-17-14 08:52 AM
  15. Uzi's Avatar
    Just checked mine and Verizon is 10 to 11 seconds fast. Am I living in the future?
    not you Rich, but I am 11:07:22 PM friday , 17 Jan 2014
    here

    Posted via CB10
    01-17-14 09:07 AM
  16. bikenski's Avatar
    Just loaded 10.2.1.2102 (Software Release) / .2141 (OS Version) onto my Q10, and the clock is still running ~9 seconds fast. Was hoping the latest software release would fix the problem, but no joy!
    02-18-14 03:03 PM
  17. Omnitech's Avatar
    Just loaded 10.2.1.2102 (Software Release) / .2141 (OS Version) onto my Q10, and the clock is still running ~9 seconds fast. Was hoping the latest software release would fix the problem, but no joy!

    Same here.

    I have some technical info I was planning to post here about how time is synced over the network, got to go dig that up..
    02-19-14 02:14 AM
42 12

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