08-02-09 03:28 PM
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  1. JRSCCivic98's Avatar
    Bottom line is, CB isn't causing loose battery doors to happen on Tours, poor QC is. No doubt some people false brick their phones by loading stuff wrong and can't fix it, but even you guys can't fix it and just mindlessly swap out the phone and send the other back to RIM for no real reason.

    So, as you can see, the blame can be placed on everyone at some point. Really, when VZW noticed the loose battery door issues, they should have internally resolved the issue instead of selling the BS builds to people in hopes of hiding the truth, but hey, that would have been way above VZW's bottom line interests. So hey, let's just blame CB for poor QC from RIM and poor QC from VZW inventory control. It's easier that way.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    08-02-09 01:27 AM
  2. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    It is true - many times in life, we're happy & without problems until someone tells us we have a problem.

    The funny thing is, the industry claims that over 92% of BlackBerry owners never owned another type of smatphone. Yet to most BlackBerry owners, they are expert in claiming their device is the best.

    Back in the late 70's, when GM was still by far the largest car company out there, they were selling cars with 350ci (5.7litre for the import crowd) V8 engines. These engines came from two slightly different designs - one was Chevrolet/Pontiac & one was Cadillac/Buick/Oldsmobile. The cars in question were B-Bodies (Caprice/Delta 88/LeSabre) and C-Bodies (98/Electra/Deville). People loved these cars until someone discovered that some of the Cadillac/Buick/Oldsmobile models might have Chevrolet/Pontiac engines in them. Same power, torque & fuel economy, but the serial numbers were different and they were made in a different plant. There were lawsuits, congressional inquiries ml more. GM ended up giving vouchers to people with the affected cars, good on their next purchase.

    Slight design differences effectively meant the Chevrolet/Pontiac engines were a bit more durable & some parts were cheaper, but this didn't matter - people felt they were being ripped off paying for a Buick that had the exact same rocker arms as a lowly Pontiac. Never mind the fact the cars were often built on the same line. But this meant the people who got the vouchers also had the better engines & GM had to pony up, simply because they didn't divulge then what they do now - that engines may be built by different divisions.

    And this all because someone found out & news leaked.

    The same thing happens here and on other fansites. Happy people told they are supposed to be unhappy & they buy into it. Community organizers stir up the same type of problems by taking happy people & ticking them off.

    But notice what is being talked about throughout this thread, with analogies & such. It really doesn't matter the cost. With the cars, the dealer is a warranty service center. Something goes wrong with the car, the dealer fixes it and bills the manufacturer. Depending on the brand & the dealer, you might be without a car for awhile, as you don't always get a loaner - and when you do, it usually isn't as nice as yours. Take your Lexus LS470 in and you will probably be using an ES250 for a few days. Take your Hyundai Sonata in & you might be renting a car for a few days. In either case, you're dealing with a franchised dealer, authorized by the manufacturer to make repairs and that dealer gets reimbursed by the manufacturer. If your issue is not resolved, you contact the manufacturer. Through their zone manager, you might get resolution.

    With the restaurant, if you get a bad meal, again, you're dealing again with the manufacturer - the restaurant.

    In both scenarios, depending on your experience and the ability/desire of the manufacturer to effect repairs or make corrections, if you're not happy, the next time you choose Chevy instead of Ford or Burger King instead of Joe's Burger Shop.

    In the case of a carrier, the situation is different - more like Best Buy or Kroger. After a certain period of time, the retail outlet will no longer help you, as neither is an authorized warranty repair center. If they take something back, they may or may not get reimbursed from the manufacturer. Carriers, out of a desire for improved customer service, handle warranty returns for customers. They don't repair and they don't diagnose - much like your TV dealer or grocery store. So they have to look at things differently.

    While looking at the situations differently, they have to make a judgment call - they have to determine their likelihood of getting reimbursed for the issue at hand.

    Sites, like this one, will often point out manufacturing flaws that are so minor, someone had to look to find it. Then people get upset and go back to the carrier. The problem may not be something the manufacturer will reimburse for. You know the routine - that isn't a defect, sir. It is an intentional design feature!

    In the end, if I have a Samsung flat-panel display that goes bad in six months or a year, I don't go yelling at Starpower. I yell at Samsung. If Samsung doesn't correct it, or they do & three months later, I have another problem, the next TV I buy might be a Pioneer or LG or whatever - it certainly won't be another Samsung. And I'll probably go back to Starpower to get it.

    So why is it people have all these BlackBerry issues that RIM caused, but VZW or AT&T or Sprint or whomever gets blamed?

    It all started on CB or Howard or PhoneArena or wherever.

    For me, I am not stupid enough to keep buying junk - and although the problem may have never been noticed except for some fansite posts, it isn't the carrier who is making the junk.

    Your Curve had a flimsy battery cover. Your Storm had a recalcitrant OS. Now you want to scream, cry & make a fool out of yourself in an attempt to get a Tour with a flimsy battery cover, a laggy OS and a rippled screen?

    I warned of Tour issues here months ago. No one listened. Maybe the only problems you care about are the ones someone tells you that you have & you don't care about the ones someone tells you that you will have.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    08-02-09 01:38 AM
  3. JRSCCivic98's Avatar
    I don't think the public should be expected to "just deal" with issues from large companies, especially not ones who's CEO make more in one year then most will in their entire lifetimes. If they want our money, they should be held accountable.

    Frack man, large corporations don't even absorb their own operating costs anymore. They shove that on the consumer via fees and other BS cost increases. I'm all for a democratic way of life, but there's a limit! It should be the people's will to keep things in check, no matter how small.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    08-02-09 01:53 AM
  4. mattyg151's Avatar
    Bottom line is, CB isn't causing loose battery doors to happen on Tours, poor QC is. No doubt some people false brick their phones by loading stuff wrong and can't fix it, but even you guys can't fix it and just mindlessly swap out the phone and send the other back to RIM for no real reason.

    So, as you can see, the blame can be placed on everyone at some point. Really, when VZW noticed the loose battery door issues, they should have internally resolved the issue instead of selling the BS builds to people in hopes of hiding the truth, but hey, that would have been way above VZW's bottom line interests. So hey, let's just blame CB for poor QC from RIM and poor QC from VZW inventory control. It's easier that way.
    i'm holding CB personally responsible for me bricking my phone ... hahaha yea right. if anything VZW should be thanking this site for all of the phones/issues people have been able to get fixed with the help of people on here. Also, for say the Storm i'm sure a lot of people would have returned their phones while sitting around waiting for VZW to release an OS update if they hadn't gotten something to make it more usable from CB.
    08-02-09 02:01 AM
  5. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    Frack man, large corporations don't even absorb their own operating costs anymore. They shove that on the consumer via fees and other BS cost increases.
    Anymore? Like they ever did? In business, since the beginning of time, all operating expenses, overhead & whatnot were rolled into the cost of what you purchase.

    Let's soak the businesses & increase their costs. They will only charge us more. Let's tax the same businesses. Again, businesses don't pay taxes - they charge us more.

    Yup - we really showed those big businesses.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    08-02-09 02:03 AM
  6. DesertDogs's Avatar
    I don't think the public should be expected to "just deal" with issues from large companies, especially not ones who's CEO make more in one year then most will in their entire lifetimes. If they want our money, they should be held accountable.
    They are held accountable. To the shareholders.

    What difference does it make how much the CEO makes? They all make a lot of money. If you don't like a company, find another. Pretty cut and dry.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    08-02-09 01:01 PM
  7. i_hiker's Avatar
    I have to admit that I came to the "smart phone party" late. I bought my Curve (my first smart phone) last November after a lot of research. I selected it because of the track record, and problems friends had with their Palm devices. My use was for business and I wanted something reliable. During the selection process, I was very close to switching to VZW and getting the Storm...I even had it in my hand! Instinct said go for the Curve and I am glad I did.

    The point I am getting to is that consumers who want the "latest and greatest" toy aren't necessarily making a smart choice. They are making an emotional decision and get emotional when the darn thing doesn't work right.

    The manufacturers are rushing a product to market before it is ready, just so they can meet the demands of the buying public and beat the competition to the punch. As consumers, those who elect to jump on a new product usually pay a premium for the device and become unpaid quality control stooges for the company who brought the product to market.

    Same thing when someone wants to put the latest OS on their device because it is the newest OS. Who cares about any bugs it might have...it's the newest! Frankly, I'm glad there are folks out there that are adventurous enough to jump right in like this; but I am content to sit back and read the threads before making a decision to change the OS on my Curve...or buy the Tour.

    The manufacturers and distributors of our devices should be grateful for this site. If a weakness exists in a product, it will be found by someone on this site. If a solution to an operating problem exists, it can often be found on this site. If it's a hardware issue, it is up to the manufacturer to fix it. If you go out and spend a premium on the latest, greatest device, and it doesn't live up to your expectations...you won't get a lot of sympathy from me, but I'll admire your courage. Keep up the good work!
    08-02-09 02:46 PM
  8. DesertDogs's Avatar
    It is true - many times in life, we're happy & without problems until someone tells us we have a problem.

    The funny thing is, the industry claims that over 92% of BlackBerry owners never owned another type of smatphone. Yet to most BlackBerry owners, they are expert in claiming their device is the best.

    Back in the late 70's, when GM was still by far the largest car company out there, they were selling cars with 350ci (5.7litre for the import crowd) V8 engines. These engines came from two slightly different designs - one was Chevrolet/Pontiac & one was Cadillac/Buick/Oldsmobile. The cars in question were B-Bodies (Caprice/Delta 88/LeSabre) and C-Bodies (98/Electra/Deville). People loved these cars until someone discovered that some of the Cadillac/Buick/Oldsmobile models might have Chevrolet/Pontiac engines in them. Same power, torque & fuel economy, but the serial numbers were different and they were made in a different plant. There were lawsuits, congressional inquiries ml more. GM ended up giving vouchers to people with the affected cars, good on their next purchase.

    Slight design differences effectively meant the Chevrolet/Pontiac engines were a bit more durable & some parts were cheaper, but this didn't matter - people felt they were being ripped off paying for a Buick that had the exact same rocker arms as a lowly Pontiac. Never mind the fact the cars were often built on the same line. But this meant the people who got the vouchers also had the better engines & GM had to pony up, simply because they didn't divulge then what they do now - that engines may be built by different divisions.

    And this all because someone found out & news leaked.

    The same thing happens here and on other fansites. Happy people told they are supposed to be unhappy & they buy into it. Community organizers stir up the same type of problems by taking happy people & ticking them off.

    But notice what is being talked about throughout this thread, with analogies & such. It really doesn't matter the cost. With the cars, the dealer is a warranty service center. Something goes wrong with the car, the dealer fixes it and bills the manufacturer. Depending on the brand & the dealer, you might be without a car for awhile, as you don't always get a loaner - and when you do, it usually isn't as nice as yours. Take your Lexus LS470 in and you will probably be using an ES250 for a few days. Take your Hyundai Sonata in & you might be renting a car for a few days. In either case, you're dealing with a franchised dealer, authorized by the manufacturer to make repairs and that dealer gets reimbursed by the manufacturer. If your issue is not resolved, you contact the manufacturer. Through their zone manager, you might get resolution.

    With the restaurant, if you get a bad meal, again, you're dealing again with the manufacturer - the restaurant.

    In both scenarios, depending on your experience and the ability/desire of the manufacturer to effect repairs or make corrections, if you're not happy, the next time you choose Chevy instead of Ford or Burger King instead of Joe's Burger Shop.

    In the case of a carrier, the situation is different - more like Best Buy or Kroger. After a certain period of time, the retail outlet will no longer help you, as neither is an authorized warranty repair center. If they take something back, they may or may not get reimbursed from the manufacturer. Carriers, out of a desire for improved customer service, handle warranty returns for customers. They don't repair and they don't diagnose - much like your TV dealer or grocery store. So they have to look at things differently.

    While looking at the situations differently, they have to make a judgment call - they have to determine their likelihood of getting reimbursed for the issue at hand.

    Sites, like this one, will often point out manufacturing flaws that are so minor, someone had to look to find it. Then people get upset and go back to the carrier. The problem may not be something the manufacturer will reimburse for. You know the routine - that isn't a defect, sir. It is an intentional design feature!

    In the end, if I have a Samsung flat-panel display that goes bad in six months or a year, I don't go yelling at Starpower. I yell at Samsung. If Samsung doesn't correct it, or they do & three months later, I have another problem, the next TV I buy might be a Pioneer or LG or whatever - it certainly won't be another Samsung. And I'll probably go back to Starpower to get it.

    So why is it people have all these BlackBerry issues that RIM caused, but VZW or AT&T or Sprint or whomever gets blamed?

    It all started on CB or Howard or PhoneArena or wherever.

    For me, I am not stupid enough to keep buying junk - and although the problem may have never been noticed except for some fansite posts, it isn't the carrier who is making the junk.

    Your Curve had a flimsy battery cover. Your Storm had a recalcitrant OS. Now you want to scream, cry & make a fool out of yourself in an attempt to get a Tour with a flimsy battery cover, a laggy OS and a rippled screen?

    I warned of Tour issues here months ago. No one listened. Maybe the only problems you care about are the ones someone tells you that you have & you don't care about the ones someone tells you that you will have.
    +++2.691.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    08-02-09 03:25 PM
  9. DesertDogs's Avatar
    I have to admit that I came to the "smart phone party" late. I bought my Curve (my first smart phone) last November after a lot of research. I selected it because of the track record, and problems friends had with their Palm devices. My use was for business and I wanted something reliable. During the selection process, I was very close to switching to VZW and getting the Storm...I even had it in my hand! Instinct said go for the Curve and I am glad I did.

    The point I am getting to is that consumers who want the "latest and greatest" toy aren't necessarily making a smart choice. They are making an emotional decision and get emotional when the darn thing doesn't work right.

    The manufacturers are rushing a product to market before it is ready, just so they can meet the demands of the buying public and beat the competition to the punch. As consumers, those who elect to jump on a new product usually pay a premium for the device and become unpaid quality control stooges for the company who brought the product to market.

    Same thing when someone wants to put the latest OS on their device because it is the newest OS. Who cares about any bugs it might have...it's the newest! Frankly, I'm glad there are folks out there that are adventurous enough to jump right in like this; but I am content to sit back and read the threads before making a decision to change the OS on my Curve...or buy the Tour.

    The manufacturers and distributors of our devices should be grateful for this site. If a weakness exists in a product, it will be found by someone on this site. If a solution to an operating problem exists, it can often be found on this site. If it's a hardware issue, it is up to the manufacturer to fix it. If you go out and spend a premium on the latest, greatest device, and it doesn't live up to your expectations...you won't get a lot of sympathy from me, but I'll admire your courage. Keep up the good work!
    ++++2.497

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    08-02-09 03:26 PM
  10. DesertDogs's Avatar
    I just love it when people live in reality and not fantasy.

    And when there are two who can articulate reality in an intelligent, thoughtful manner, it is even better.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    08-02-09 03:28 PM
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