06-24-09 04:24 PM
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  1. vatothe0's Avatar
    There's no way RIM would sell their equipment at a loss and try to recoup the money on service revenue.

    I would bet the Storm is sold to carriers and distributors for about $350. Their cost to manufacture it (not development costs, marketing etc) is just over $200. iSuppli: BlackBerry Storm costs $4 more than its purchase price to build
    06-22-09 02:59 AM
  2. itsthemusic's Avatar
    If you are still having problems, PM me. Im at work and actually not in a crabby mood today. ha ha
    06-22-09 09:22 AM
  3. jdnlou's Avatar
    There's no way RIM would sell their equipment at a loss and try to recoup the money on service revenue.

    I would bet the Storm is sold to carriers and distributors for about $350. Their cost to manufacture it (not development costs, marketing etc) is just over $200. iSuppli: BlackBerry Storm costs $4 more than its purchase price to build
    Wrong! I've seen pricing sheets on the price we pay for phones from the manufacturer. The price we set as full retail price is about the same...if not less than what we paid for the phone from the manufacturer. Verizon takes a serious hit on the subsidizing phones for contracts. It usually takes months to make that up. In the case of 9.99 add lines, we may never make that money back.

    You are correct in that it doesn't take much to manufacture the phones, but the phone manufacturer is the one making the money on that deal. VZW doesn't make money off the phones.

    VZW makes money off the accessories and services that we sell.

    Also, most phones that are returned or exchanged under warranty are actually functioning properly. User error is the reason they are returned, not device malfunction.
    06-22-09 09:28 AM
  4. IDsweetcheeks's Avatar
    i used to be an AT&T customer, and never had a problem with them. I switched to verizon and me and my girlfriend have the family plan...saves us some cash. i started with a storm and had a ton of problems, so i went back to a curve before my 30 days. then the storm update came out, and i tried it again. i am now on my third storm since going back (4 storms total).

    yesterday i called customer service about my storm, stating that i honestly am fed up with my phones freezing, shutting down, and my buttons not working, and the screen problems (AND YES, I AM ON THE MOST CURRENT OS). i told them that i want a phone that i dont have to worry about, and told them i wouldnt even mind a phone that wasnt exactly equal value of the storm.

    the first rep i spoke to told me basically i had no choice...i either keep exchanging the storms, or pay $155 to cancel my service, and that there was no way they would wiave the fee. this guy spoke to me like i was three years old, and was somewhat insulting, so i asked to speek to his manager.

    now the manager was even worse...he was extremely sarcastic and condesending towards me. for example, he told me that they go through steps to check out the phone before they issue a replacement. i told him i am aware of that since i have done it more than once. he then said "oh, im sorry...are you a verizon technician??". i said excuse me? so he asked again! i asked if he was getting sarcastic with me! anyway, the conversation ended with him telling me they would do nothing but exchange the storm again.

    i have never EVER been treated this way by ANY company customer service before! does anyone have any suggestions on what my next step should be?? i like verizon service, but just want a worry free phone. i am very tempted to cancel my service with verizon just because of how i was treated!you can only touch a stove and be burnt so many times before you stop touching it!

    any reps or anyone else out there with any ideas?
    Speaking as a Tech rep AND a customer service oriented individual with Verizon. HOW dare you get treated that way. I cannot believe that one of my collegues would be so rude ( actually I can... ) I am SO sorry that you were treated that way. In no way should you have been treated so rudely. That is NOT the credo of Big Red.
    If you read some of the other threads most everyone is very happy with the service they recieve over the phone and/or in the stores.
    I'm going to cross my fingers that you got a rep and sup that were just having bad days or had bad attitudes. Its not the norm I promise you. Every one of my collegues in my center have the utmost respect for our customers and would never treat you so harshly.
    NOW... as for your issue with the Storm. I do agree as some of the others have said. I would have recommended staying with the curve. Do a hard reset on the Storm and see if it resolves the issue. You definately have a major mem leak issue somewhere. Hard reset may or may not resolve.
    Unfortunately there is only so much that we are ALLOWED to do in regard to replacing phones. We get audited and we have to backup everthing we do. If we were to replace your Storm and you havent completely been through all the steps possible that we have to go through then WE can get in trouble. WE as in the tech rep/store rep/supervisor.
    You also want to understand that in regards to your phone issues; its important to us, but we have been hearing the same story from hundreds of people multiple times a day. Its like a broken record. As a tech rep... I didnt make the phone and I am just an employee... all I can do is my job.
    As I'm sure you have read here even the Verizon reps in this forum are biased against this phone due to the problems.
    I will say that I'm hoping that the phone improves and some say that peoples issues are all about ignorance and user error... but I cant see how there can be THAT many people having the same issues and have it be user error. I just cant believe that.
    Stand tall and please be patient. We DO appriciate you and I will be willing to bet if you contact back in you will be given the utmost apology for the way you were treated.
    06-22-09 09:45 AM
  5. big.daddy's Avatar
    im not on verizon (yet) but i know that alltel will replace a phone 3 times and if your still having problems with the phone they will switch you to a similar phone.
    06-22-09 10:29 AM
  6. IDsweetcheeks's Avatar
    im not on verizon (yet) but i know that alltel will replace a phone 3 times and if your still having problems with the phone they will switch you to a similar phone.
    we do have a similar program but it has to be within 90 days of each other. He would have to start with the most current storm he has and go from there. And they have to be VALID issues and all have extensive t/s done to it.

    We dont like to advertize this program bc of people misusing it and taking advantage, but the store reps let it out of the bag all the time and its the tech reps that have to deal with the consequences.
    06-22-09 11:27 AM
  7. patches152's Avatar
    we do have a similar program but it has to be within 90 days of each other. He would have to start with the most current storm he has and go from there. And they have to be VALID issues and all have extensive t/s done to it.

    We dont like to advertize this program bc of people misusing it and taking advantage, but the store reps let it out of the bag all the time and its the tech reps that have to deal with the consequences.
    pot, meet kettle...


    ROFL!
    jk
    06-22-09 11:33 AM
  8. IDsweetcheeks's Avatar
    I know I realized that after I posted it. :-p

    DOH!
    06-22-09 11:59 AM
  9. patches152's Avatar
    ah, the irony of being a VZW employee...

    btw leaving for donnelly on thursday. should i bring you a coffee on my way through?

    06-22-09 12:01 PM
  10. ScottRPriester's Avatar
    As I'm sure you have read here even the Verizon reps in this forum are biased against this phone due to the problems.
    I will say that I'm hoping that the phone improves and some say that peoples issues are all about ignorance and user error... but I cant see how there can be THAT many people having the same issues and have it be user error. I just cant believe that.
    On the other hand, its hard for me to believe that one person has had to have a phone replaced multiple upon multiple times. I can see someone getting a bad phone once, and maybe, maybe twice, but when it gets to three times or more, something isn't right.

    When someone is interested in this phone, I admit to them that I've seen and heard every glitch possible. Especially when it's a new BB user, I will also recommend the Curve over the Storm. I also tell them I've had mine since December of last year and haven't had it replaced once. Sure there have been disappointments along the way, like the camera issue, and the white screen and hour and clock appearing, etc. Maybe I'm a bit more tolerant, and don't expect something this advanced to be 100 percent perfect all the time. But the new upgrade did wonders for it, almost like it's a whole new phone.

    We have a girl who comes in to our store, and I believe she's had it replaced at least four times. I just can't and won't believe that you can get that unlucky that many times.
    06-22-09 12:02 PM
  11. IDsweetcheeks's Avatar
    On the other hand, its hard for me to believe that one person has had to have a phone replaced multiple upon multiple times. I can see someone getting a bad phone once, and maybe, maybe twice, but when it gets to three times or more, something isn't right.

    When someone is interested in this phone, I admit to them that I've seen and heard every glitch possible. Especially when it's a new BB user, I will also recommend the Curve over the Storm. I also tell them I've had mine since December of last year and haven't had it replaced once. Sure there have been disappointments along the way, like the camera issue, and the white screen and hour and clock appearing, etc. Maybe I'm a bit more tolerant, and don't expect something this advanced to be 100 percent perfect all the time. But the new upgrade did wonders for it, almost like it's a whole new phone.

    We have a girl who comes in to our store, and I believe she's had it replaced at least four times. I just can't and won't believe that you can get that unlucky that many times.
    See that is what we are up against. SO many people have come back and said they've had 4 or 5 or 6 of these things. I have trouble seeing how THAT many phones have issues.
    Although a lot of people call in with the SAME issues... it could go either way and its definately a conundrum (SP)
    All I know is that I'm tired of the broken record... I can count on at LEAST 8 calls of my day being someone complaining about their storm... I am having a hard time having anymore empathy for the situation.

    I think I just contradicted myself.
    I'm having a bad day... just disregard some of what I said.
    Last edited by heather.law; 06-22-09 at 12:53 PM.
    06-22-09 12:32 PM
  12. patches152's Avatar
    i personally had 5

    first one had bad click in the corners, to the point where i had to change from portrait/landscape or visa versa just to get to a key or an app icon.

    2nd one rebooted like a metronome

    3rd wasn't fully refurbished, scraches all over screen and chrome edging

    4th had an almost orange screen. the LCD was bad i believe. looked like it was dropped in a fish takn and a bunch of algae grew on it or something, lol!

    5th is good. the plastic pieces on the sides where the convenience keys are loose, and they flex if i hold the phone too tight, but no biggie ATM. i had them document it on my account that it came in that way so if later it gets worse i can get another warantee exchange vs. having to pay for an insurance claim.

    guess you don't want coffee heather!!!
    06-22-09 12:36 PM
  13. IDsweetcheeks's Avatar
    ah, the irony of being a VZW employee...

    btw leaving for donnelly on thursday. should i bring you a coffee on my way through?

    YAY! Better than the sludge we have here in the center... blech...
    06-22-09 12:54 PM
  14. patches152's Avatar
    i'll see what i can do...
    06-22-09 01:02 PM
  15. jmburke1982's Avatar
    heather.law, I want to thank you for your input. And let me reassure everyone out there who is quick to judge everyone as inexperienced, and blame user error, that this is not the case. My phone randomly reboots and my left bottom corner does not click. As I type this, my buttons are not highlighting and my qwerty is very slow to respond. I am not looking for something free, I would even pay for a phone if I can rely on it. For those like heather who offered good advice, thank you so much and I greatly appreciate it. For those looking to talk down to everyone, thank you for wasting my time

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    06-22-09 01:05 PM
  16. mexiken's Avatar
    I understand, but at the same time why would a company put out a product that is not reliable?!
    Because Verizon is like any other company. They're greedy, and have deadlines, just like any other publicly traded company. They have shareholders to answer to. The hardware for the most part is fine. The software was just. Well, its been beat to death. Had VZW released the Storm with .148 running on it, the image of it would have been completely different. But thats just VZW's fault, plain and simple. And customers shouldn't have to pay for that.

    and lets get serious here...RIM makes good products, but once they started mass producing consumer friendly devices that are targeted at a younger, broader demographic, the quality dropped. if you want to talk about "how much money is being being bled", then inform me how much money it takes to make one of these phones...and i gaurantee you it isnt $500.
    I agree 100% wholeheartedly about the mass product statement. Its sad. They were one of the last genuine QUALITY (consistent, reputable, etc) OEM's left.

    I have no idea how much it takes to make the phone. I assume you can find this by Googling. Please bear in mind the overhead involved at getting it to either a store where you can pick it up, someone to answer your phone and let you order it, or the automated servers that you let you purchase and have it shipped to your home. This adds up to a pretty penny. Most small business owners know this, after the little things add up, you end up not making much, unless the owner cuts corners somewhere. A bit harder for a large corporation to achieve this. Harder still for the largest wireless company in the US.

    so nevermind that...you should know that "retail price" has nothing to do with how much is spent on the phone..."retail price" is how much the phone is bumped up in price to sell at RETAIL places. for example, lets say the average CD is sold at $15. do you know how much it takes to produce the CD?! PENNIES!!! so you are looking at a $14.90 profit.
    That can be said about anything. Cars, electronic gadgets, phones, houses. EVerything. You have the right to find a lower price, and by all means, please do whenever possible. I do.

    I dont feel verizon "did me a favor" by any means. but dont go getting in depth and comparing phones to cars. if you work for verizon, then thats great. again i have NOTHING against the company OR the service...just how I was treated.
    I've sold both for a few years now. I believe that qualifies me to speak on both ends. The method by which they lose their value is not the same, but the fact that they lose value once used would resonate a bit more with people than the obvious return. The company doesn't operate like Best Buy or Fry's, where you can find an "Open Box" item for less. It just quite doesn't work that way. Would be nice. But it doesn't.

    if you want to be in business...make sure your product holds up. my opinion is that verizon bought into the storm, and whether it was RIM or verizon, it was pushed out too soon. now they are struggling to keep up with it, and i have been giving them the benefit of the doubt. but i can only do that so much.
    I agree 100%. And it was entirely VZW's fault. They should have delayed the phone until the software was (in my opinion) usable without a daily frustration.

    i signed a 2 year deal, and paid everything they needed me too, and the 2year deal i signed was supposed to include a device that works. i have not yet seen that device. bad business and bad customer service.
    You fail to understand the concept yet again. I could explain this to you, but so many people fail to realize it and get mad and think the company is ripping them off, etc , that I believe it belongs in a sticky.

    The company will eventually recoup its loss on the phone (yes, the phone in all likely hood didn't cost VZW $500 either, but it sure cost them more than the $200 you paid (less with the NE2, if that applied to you) And yes, eventually make a profit on you. However, this does not happen in one month. At the minimum, it happens after 10-12 months. So in theory, you're making out on the deal, until the company recoups its loss on the phone via you being a customer, aka, your service.

    and yes mexikan...you did come across brash. i posted this post to get help with being treated like crap from verizon and see if anyone had ideas for me, not to be lectured by someone who may or may not know what they are talking about.
    I'm sorry that you didn't find the help you were looking for. Unfortunately, you're in a situation that many others are in. And contrary to what you believe, you DID indeed have exceptions made for you. The company is getting more and more strict with this policy now (as in, less exceptions are being made) because in the end, its costing the company lots of money.

    You might try to spell correctly in the future, especially when you refer to people by their handles. Might make you seem like you know what you're talking to.
    Last edited by mexiken; 06-22-09 at 01:49 PM.
    06-22-09 01:47 PM
  17. RxPx33's Avatar
    Be like me and pay the 155 to cancel your service go back to where ever you came from. Verizon is the worst provider I have ever been with. As soon as payday rolls around its time to find a new provider and a new phone. Between there customer service which sucks and their stupid effin storm I dont know how they keep business.
    06-22-09 01:51 PM
  18. mexiken's Avatar
    If Verizon is "bleeding" money because of the returns as you say, then they need to do better QC of the phones they are going sell, or perhaps get out of selling phones completely and open their network to other phones like they promised. It would be better for all customers if we really had that option.
    I agree, wholeheartedly. Again, its VZW's fault. I'd be happy to forward any formal written complaints you have. You can PM me and I'll give you details.
    06-22-09 01:58 PM
  19. patches152's Avatar
    Because Verizon is like any other company. They're greedy, and have deadlines, just like any other publicly traded company. They have shareholders to answer to. The hardware for the most part is fine. The software was just. Well, its been beat to death. Had VZW released the Storm with .148 running on it, the image of it would have been completely different. But thats just VZW's fault, plain and simple. And customers shouldn't have to pay for that.
    verizon landline is publicly traded, VZW is NOT public. it's privately owned. VZCOMM is a part owner, as is vodafone.


    just wanted to clarify that part, don't want to get the two confused. that could cause for quite the confusion.
    06-22-09 01:59 PM
  20. jmburke1982's Avatar
    mexiken....sorry about spelling your handle wrong. i was scrolling up and down the page while typing and just read it wrong. my appologies.

    and you do make good points, and again...everyones feedback is much appreciated. i just get frustrated when someone have a legitimate complaint/problem and everyone starts getting on them about "user error" just because they havent had the same experience.

    trust me, i would LOVE to have gotten the storm and still be on my first one! its not fun by any means to have to keep going to the store or calling vzw to get a replacement!

    but again, thank you everyone for your input! i greatly appreciate it.
    06-22-09 03:23 PM
  21. mexiken's Avatar
    thank you! thats my whole point...thank you wxman.

    again, i like the storm...but everyone i just want a phone that is reliable and i dont have to visit the store for monthly.
    I understand your concern. It is one. Hopefully in the long run, .148 and future versions corrects this issue.

    plus mexikan, if they have no problem sending me a new storm everytime mine decided to not work, then why not just send me a different model of something?! what is the difference??
    The difference is, you're exchanging a used phone for another CLN (Certified Like New) device. This is exactly what the OP returned. They go through a certification process, the outsides are swapped out, and any issue the phone has is corrected and tested before being sent out again as a CLN device.

    If they get you anothe model, they're sending you a brand new device. Again, it now goes for "retail" price. And when you're not exchanging it for a contract, the company is then out that money. Since you may or may not be in a contract, and you leave the company in 2 months, how would they ever recover the money ???? Can you imagine if thousands, hundreds of thousands of customers did this ????

    They could in theory replace you for another used device. But those don't come with a back nor a battery, so thats another issue entirely....

    Either way, there is a method to replace phones in those situations, however, they aren't done in the retail store anymore, due to customer's abusing the policy.
    06-22-09 03:26 PM
  22. mexiken's Avatar
    Wrong! I've seen pricing sheets on the price we pay for phones from the manufacturer. The price we set as full retail price is about the same...if not less than what we paid for the phone from the manufacturer. Verizon takes a serious hit on the subsidizing phones for contracts. It usually takes months to make that up. In the case of 9.99 add lines, we may never make that money back.

    You are correct in that it doesn't take much to manufacture the phones, but the phone manufacturer is the one making the money on that deal. VZW doesn't make money off the phones.

    VZW makes money off the accessories and services that we sell.

    Also, most phones that are returned or exchanged under warranty are actually functioning properly. User error is the reason they are returned, not device malfunction.

    Glad to see someone has their head on straight about the situation.

    Its like going to the movies. The theatre doesn't make money on the movie, or if they do, very little. Not nearly enough to keep a huge building like that staffed, and operating. They make money on the candy/popcorn you buy. Same with gas stations. They make virtually nothing on the gas, they make it on the chips and soda and water you buy.
    06-22-09 03:36 PM
  23. mexiken's Avatar
    we do have a similar program but it has to be within 90 days of each other. He would have to start with the most current storm he has and go from there. And they have to be VALID issues and all have extensive t/s done to it.

    We dont like to advertize this program bc of people misusing it and taking advantage, but the store reps let it out of the bag all the time and its the tech reps that have to deal with the consequences.
    Yes, its called a Multi-FRU exchange. Its not done at the retail store level anymore (at least, not in my region/district).

    And thats actually the reason given to us why we dont do it. Its been abused much too much.
    06-22-09 03:44 PM
  24. jmburke1982's Avatar
    If someone can show me how screen click issues and phones freezing with the alarm clock blasting are user error and I will GLADLY keep this phone

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    06-22-09 03:47 PM
  25. jcash74's Avatar
    Leave Verizon, I am having the same CS problems as you. I have been getting dropped calls frequently lately and no one seems educated enough to help when I call. One joker wanted me to re-new and get a different phone?!? LOL
    06-22-09 04:17 PM
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