01-17-10 06:26 AM
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  1. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    As an added point - LTE uses algorhythms similar to CDMA over a process close to UMTS & acts a lot like a secured WiMAX.

    It is beyond CDMA which is beyond the archaic TDMA backbone of GSM.

    Early LTE capable devices will fall back on CDMA.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    04-13-09 12:30 AM
  2. ihackeverything's Avatar
    Sorry, but LTE is in no way tied to GSM, other than they are both radios transmission types.

    VZW has exclusive rights to the 700MHz band and there is zero reporting that they will have roaming agreements or even reason to believe they will enter into any with AT&T.

    There is also the carrier statements that has VZW's LTE rollout starting 2 years before AT&T's and with a much more aggressive rollout schedule.

    Any hope that AT&T phones will be allowed access to VZW's network is nothing more than the pipedreams of AT&T chatrooms.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    I respectfully disagree with some of your statements.

    Please, allow me to retort.


    1st: LTE as defined by the 3GPP will allow seamless integration with existing GSM, WCDMA, and CDMA infrastructures.

    2nd: LTE as defined by the 3GPP is based on UMTS which is AT&T 3G (in combination with HSDPA.)

    3rd: UMTS is based on WCDMA with a GSM based voice band.

    4th: VZW is adopting and presently testing LTE as defined by the 3GPP. Which is the reason that they are migrating to a completely different infrastructure that supports the evolution of UMTS 3G, also known as LTE.

    5th: The iPhone contractual agreements set forth by Apple to AT&T expire in 2010. I'm speculating, but I have a hard time believing that VZW is not going to jump at the chance to grab the next incarnation of that agreement if offered the chance. Now, even if there are no roaming agreements, and VZW does not grab the iPhone, given the fact that VZW is going to embrace 4G LTE based on UMTS, I can always grab a factory unlocked 4G iPhone from Italy or Australia and activate that on VZW.

    6th: There are basically 3 effective 4G technologies as stated below:

    -LTE: Based on GSM/UMTS with a flexible bandwidth selection. That being said, it would be unwise for VZW to choose an off beat spectrum and make phone manufacturers build devices to work on just its network while the rest of the world is using a standardized spectrum. This will not only push away phone manufacturers but also increase costs for all parties involved. As it stands now, CDMA is not exclusive to the US, and there are a few other countries that use it. So it is still somewhat cost effective to produce these phones. Plus, VZW could preach that all their phones are World Phones, as does AT&T currently, effectively removing AT&T's World Phone advertising advantage.

    -UMB: Based on CDMA. Effectively killed off by Qualcomm

    -WiMAX: Sprint (Need I say more?)


    So, I cannot predict the future, as far as I know neither can any of you, but I do believe that what we see in the next couple of years is going to be completely b1tchin'.

    Regardless of what happens VZW will have the best network in the US. They have the money and the customer base to back it up, and we all know this. What I am hoping for is a contractual agreement between Apple and VZW to release the iPhone on VZW. Although, I would be extremely pissed off if VZW locked down the GPS and WiFi...LOL...and I highly doubt that AT&T will allow that contract to fall into the hands of one of it's competitors, but hey, ya never know.

    As an added point - LTE uses algorhythms similar to CDMA over a process close to UMTS & acts a lot like a secured WiMAX.

    It is beyond CDMA which is beyond the archaic TDMA backbone of GSM.

    Early LTE capable devices will fall back on CDMA.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    The one problem I see with this statement is that LTE is supposed to be standardized, is it not? So, that being said, how is it that early LTE capable devices in other countries are going to fall back on CDMA when they have no CDMA infrastructure?

    Now, don't take me wrong, I switched for the phone, definitely not the service. AT&T is an archaic company that should just be put out of business in the wireless field. They should stick to DSL, landlines, and U-verse. Personally when I walk into an AT&T store I feel like I have went back in time by about 5 years and dread dealing with the CSR's that are absolutely useless.


    Anyways, enough rambling for now. Time to get some sleep, I just pulled a 12 hour shift.

    If any of my information is wrong, do feel free to correct me. I just wont be able to look at it until tomorrow sometime.
    04-13-09 12:59 AM
  3. shwemp's Avatar
    ...VZW has exclusive rights to the 700MHz band...
    Where do you get your information? According to the FCC, 1090 licenses were sold to 101 different bidders during the last 700 MHz auction.
    04-13-09 12:24 PM
  4. heartofeverything's Avatar
    This guy speaks the truth.

    When I was on AT&T (or Cingular as they called it back then), I had more dropped calls over the course of two DAYS than I've had on Verizon in nearly two YEARS.
    04-13-09 05:27 PM
  5. unseenme's Avatar
    i can tell ya hands on, everyday, verizon totally dominates at&t. the company i work for uses at&t towers for data transmission, and i am a verizon customer. i compare my work machine to my storm to see the differences in signal strength. not even close. at&t can have their iphone (or as i call it, the iPOS), ill stick with my storm and verizon. half way trough the day, everyday, without fail, i travel out to an area where i have no signal on my work machine for at least 2 hours, as im constantly texting my wife with no problems. i wouldnt have at&t if they paid me to (sorry tiger woods).
    04-13-09 09:22 PM
  6. gotblackberry's Avatar
    So I was talking to a customer who I was helping port out to AT&T. It was interesting because she was keeping her phone but her daughter was going to AT&T and of course her text messages were not working fresh after the port.

    I guess the AT&T port center rep had called me and conferenced the customer in and she randomly popped into the call. The customer was like "I really hope they made the right choice going to an iPhone because I know the service seems to be better with Verizon." The AT&T rep jumps in and goes "Well they did, I mean you have received quality service already and it will only get better with us." I go, "Well AT&T has posted about known issues with their network battling between 3G and EDGE in common 3G areas which totally destroys the battery life on their devices." The rep was silent.

    Then I said, "Unforutunately that line is AT&T now and you're going to have to talk to her for text messaging troubleshooting."
    04-13-09 09:31 PM
  7. DesertDogs's Avatar
    All GSM is UMTS but not all UMTS is GSM.

    And I feel really sorry for the lady who switched to the iPhone. The phone is better than the Storm which I just got rid of after 3 of them, but AT&T sucks and GSM puts out a ton more radiation than does CDMA or LTE.

    Anyone who says GSM and LTE are related is a loon.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    04-13-09 09:40 PM
  8. gotblackberry's Avatar
    It was her daughter the mother stayed with Verizon Wireless depsite her two daughters both moving over.

    I'm sure the daughters will be back .
    04-13-09 09:51 PM
  9. DesertDogs's Avatar
    So typical. The adults are the smart ones and the kids aren't. Kids tend to believe all the crap fed to them online and have no discernment for information. Make a pretty site. Put up junk the kids friends agree with and the kids would believe anything even the stupidest stuff is swallowed hook line & sinker by todays kids. The junk about AT&T and GSM being better is proof they don't know much of anything. God help us when they actually have to make real decisions.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    04-13-09 10:11 PM
  10. patches152's Avatar
    just because LTE comes around CDMA and GSM networks won't go away...so they can fall back on that. but no existing phones will be able to connect to LTE as it is planned currently, there are no "forward compatible" radios in the existing devices, only "backwards compatible".
    04-14-09 12:26 AM
  11. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    just because LTE comes around CDMA and GSM networks won't go away...so they can fall back on that. but no existing phones will be able to connect to LTE as it is planned currently, there are no "forward compatible" radios in the existing devices, only "backwards compatible".
    It is nice to see some folks get it.

    There are some other things above I really want to get to, but not tonight - I am not feeling well.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    04-14-09 01:19 AM
  12. DesertDogs's Avatar
    just because LTE comes around CDMA and GSM networks won't go away...so they can fall back on that. but no existing phones will be able to connect to LTE as it is planned currently, there are no "forward compatible" radios in the existing devices, only "backwards compatible".
    You are so correct. Current phones will not work on LTE at all. It is a whole different animal. But the current phones will not be obsolete overnight. It will take several years before it will be all LTE. One of the cool features of LTE will be a home preference capability where home network phones will have priority over roamers. For those hoping to roam onto another carrier this means you will have to wait or take a lesser connection. The current plan is to support roamers at a much lower speed instead of blocking them out.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    04-14-09 01:19 AM
  13. patches152's Avatar
    You're gonna hurt yourself trying to fix ALL of the noobs. Just use the "no noobs left behind act" (TM) outline listed on my homepage to determine which noobs to focus your attention upon.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    04-14-09 01:38 AM
  14. bnbpapa's Avatar
    OK, so I switched to VZW from AT&T after 11yrs because of ****-poor service (the people not the phone). While I'm 110% satisfied with VZW's service and pretty much agree with TwinsX2Dad, I will say this about VZW vs. AT&T coverage in my area: The two places I spend 90% of my time home and at work I had max bars of signal with AT&T but very weak or no bars of signal with VZW. Everywhere else I go I have better signal with VZW than I ever had with AT&T. Dont know if it will improve my signal at home and work after the merge with Alltel is complete or not. It would be noce to know though.
    04-14-09 07:53 AM
  15. TrendyProfessional1's Avatar
    Where do you get your information? According to the FCC, 1090 licenses were sold to 101 different bidders during the last 700 MHz auction.
    Twin was wondering if u saw this would like to see your answer on it.
    04-14-09 01:47 PM
  16. Darthkuriboh's Avatar
    OK, so I switched to VZW from AT&T after 11yrs because of ****-poor service (the people not the phone). While I'm 110% satisfied with VZW's service and pretty much agree with TwinsX2Dad, I will say this about VZW vs. AT&T coverage in my area: The two places I spend 90% of my time home and at work I had max bars of signal with AT&T but very weak or no bars of signal with VZW. Everywhere else I go I have better signal with VZW than I ever had with AT&T. Dont know if it will improve my signal at home and work after the merge with Alltel is complete or not. It would be noce to know though.
    Call in to tech and have it troubleshot or a trouble ticket entered.
    04-14-09 04:09 PM
  17. mab4285's Avatar
    OK, so I switched to VZW from AT&T after 11yrs because of ****-poor service (the people not the phone). While I'm 110% satisfied with VZW's service and pretty much agree with TwinsX2Dad, I will say this about VZW vs. AT&T coverage in my area: The two places I spend 90% of my time home and at work I had max bars of signal with AT&T but very weak or no bars of signal with VZW. Everywhere else I go I have better signal with VZW than I ever had with AT&T. Dont know if it will improve my signal at home and work after the merge with Alltel is complete or not. It would be noce to know though.
    Call in to tech and have it troubleshot or a trouble ticket entered.
    Note that they will say that they do not guarantee service inside a house or building. Any time you are inside, that is not considered guaranteed service, and thus able to be denied by Verizon.
    04-14-09 04:15 PM
  18. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    I just did - and while I failed to be more specific (and, frankly, worded my statement wrong), shwemp failed to note that the 700MHz spectrum was sold in blocks of frequencies.

    AT&T got the entire B block, for LTE rollout late 2012, while VZW got the C block, for full-blown rollout in 2010. It bears mention that the C block is effectively the largest of the blocks.

    Of those 101 bidders, companies like MetroPCS got one licence (Boston) and EchoStar/Leap & others got some licences for various purposes.

    Google came away with absolutely nothing.

    Of note, while VZW & AT&T are both offering up open network access to devices & applications, each will maintain proprietary features, services and connectivity. This means you will be able to buy a phone anywhere and, as long as it is capable of handling the frequencies needed, you will be able to use it on your choice of networks. The same goes for various applications - like java controlled devices instead of BREW. It means less for smartphone users, as the majority of smartphones can already handle software written for their platform.

    Android phones will be available on VZW if Google allows it. You'll be able to buy an unlocked Nokia through Pete's Cell Phone Emporium & Laundromat, then call VZW to activate it. But the question still is open on specialty phones. We know the BlackBerry 8350 is a no-go, but what about those iPhones & Androids? After all, the manufacturer does not have to abide by any open network rules. The courts have refused to overturn Apple's policy of not allowing its operating systems on non-Apple approved platforms, so challenges to the Apple/AT&T agreements do not seem likely.

    It also does not mean that AT&T phones will be allowed to roam on VZW or vice-versa. Initial feedback says that you will not see roaming between AT&T & VZW. Both are promising nationwide rollout, but only VZW has claimed their ultimate goal is seamless nationwide. VZW wants to fill their holes and upgrade existing, while AT&T will be content initially to upgrade their existing network. With their track record on 3G and their bid requests, I wouldn't bet on heavy 4G deployment from AT&T anytime soon.

    And for those who insist on claiming LTE is GSM, know that new equipment is needed. - for the foreseeable future, VZW will be LTE & CDMA, while AT&T will be LTE & GSM. Supposedly, AT&T wants to hold onto GSM for longer. Unsure if this is just from confusion surrounding the later start or if they are using it as a contingency plan to cover for slower than promised LTE rollout.

    So, the VZW exclusive is for the 700MHz C block.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    04-14-09 05:12 PM
  19. DesertDogs's Avatar
    Open network does not mean open roaming. It means I can take my phone with me when I change carriers.

    I was confused with your first 700 post Dad. Thanks for clearing it up.

    I wonder how many of those other winning bidders are owned or shills for AT&T or Verizon?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    04-14-09 08:05 PM
  20. DesertDogs's Avatar
    Owned BY or shills for. I can't seem to edit my posts.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    04-14-09 08:06 PM
  21. TrendyProfessional1's Avatar
    Hey Twin
    Thanks for clarifying.........
    04-15-09 08:24 AM
  22. oifvet1967's Avatar
    04-15-09 10:06 PM
  23. TrendyProfessional1's Avatar
    Now why u wanna go and start some $hit...........
    U are wrong.
    Ignore it Twin..............
    04-15-09 11:39 PM
  24. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    Now why u wanna go and start some $hit...........
    U are wrong.
    Ignore it Twin..............
    You know, when the personal message issues became unbearable - every nutcase from the Sprint propaganda factory came out in droves - I swore off the other forums. I figured that I have time to help fellow VZW customers and not be Alinski'd on everything I said.

    While I'd be happy to hald any dummy their lunch, I think I'll stay over here. Thanks for the invite though. Who knows... I may get into a pissy mood in the next day or two & head over there to raise some H&D.

    Still, I love an occasional poke at Sprint, the company least likely to pay contractors on time and who has been struggling to even meet payroll.


    Sprint Nextel Financial Snapshot
    Year Revenue Net Income EPSEBITDA Long Term Debt
    2007 $40.1B $-29.6B $-10.3 $10.3B $20.5B
    2006 $41.0B $1.3B $0.5 $12.3B $21.0B


    Verizon Financial Snapshot
    Year Revenue Net Income EPSEBITDA Long Term Debt
    2007 $93.5B $5.5B $1.9 $30.0B $28.2B
    2006 $88.2B $6.2B $2.2 $27.9B $28.6B

    See that? Is that a great company or what? Losing $29.6 BILLION in 2007 alone and then 2008 isn't any prettier. And check out that long term debt load. Debt five times net income is considered very good for a technology company - Verizon has that with room to spare. Sprint's 2006 debt load of 15 times net is a sign of a company near failure. Their 2007 figure makes it difficult to comprehend how they are still in business.

    Near-term prognosis for Sprint - especially if the best they can do on exclusives is Palm Pre and the worst network performance rating of ALL four major carriers, losing out even to sub-carriers Leap, MetroPCS & Virgin/Helio - bankruptcy, liquidation or outright takeover. At around $4/share, it might be worthwhile now for Verizon to swallow them and get rid of the troublesome & limited 1900MHz PCS band once & for all. Then again, Verizon might be hesitant to take on that huge debt.

    By the way gang - this one from industry insiders - latest is that dual-band CDMA/LTE devices will begin flooding VZW shortly with a possible complete revamp of the BlackBerry & WinMo phone lineup being completed by this time next year. The roadmap for VZW shows now complete rollout of LTE in about three years. They have also said that they will be abandoning CDMA completely in no more than 5-7 years. Expect all of the current BlackBerry models to be phased out rather quickly for dual-band devices and yes, it does look like the Storm will be replaced before Christmas. So some of the rumors we've been hearing appear to be heading toward being non-rumors...
    04-16-09 01:20 AM
  25. YourMobileGuru's Avatar
    @ TwinsX2Dad

    You do know that LTE is backward compatible right? Older CDMA and GSM devices will still work just not at the newer speeds.

    I'm expecting VZW to eat Sprint in about a year or so once they have finalized the complete integration of the old AllTell into VZW (minus the divested markets of course). By then the price will probably be half what it is now. IF Pre is as good as they make it out to be they may buy an extra year with it but on single device will save a company in as bad a shape as Sprint is.
    04-16-09 03:03 AM
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