05-20-10 01:02 PM
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  1. i7guy's Avatar
    WRONG ! He is the customer..he is ALWAYS right as long as there is a civil discourse between the rep and customer. Any other attitude is wrong on the customers side . What you just posted is the reason American business is going down the tubes.
    This man bought a product that was not delivered and the vendor has a responsibility to deliver that product which it failed to do. He should not be upset??? Come on now this holier then thou crap from customer service and business is what congress needs to tackle...start hitting guys like Verizon and AT&T in the pocket for this kind of crap. Deliver the goods within 10 days or give the customer a full refund.PERIOD
    Wrong. See my comments in red. The customer does not have a right to abuse the rep. This is why society is going downhill.

    I fully agree the customer should not have been charged for the phone. Maybe the op should go to ATT.
    05-19-10 10:55 AM
  2. AirSupply's Avatar
    The only thing make me really mad is why I can't cancel my order and get my money back when the phone is not available until next month???? Why????
    05-19-10 10:56 AM
  3. tech_head's Avatar
    Hi,

    It is illegal in some areas and definitely unethical to charge for an item that hasn't shipped.

    Until the item is shipped you should not be charged.
    I don't unload on reps. at any company unless they refuse to move me higher up the food chain.

    My typical statement: "Please connect me to someone that has the authority to effect change. If you cannot resolve the situation, I am speaking to the wrong person."

    I usually get a higher up. If I meet resistance in the form of :
    "I don't have a manager." or "I'm the person in charge."

    My retort is "Do you sign your own paycheck? Please connect me with someone in a more authoritative position."
    05-19-10 11:20 AM
  4. i_hiker's Avatar
    Have you ever waited for the latest flat screen TV or other tech toy to arrive? If you want it as soon as it comes in you pay for it up front. Right or wrong...this is how the big box stores do business. The main issues in this particular situation seem to be bad behavior on the part of the OP and disclosure on the part of VZW.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    05-19-10 11:42 AM
  5. Feeeeg's Avatar
    Yes people preorder stuff all the time. I do it for ps3 games, and books. It is a way of making sure you get a copy upon release.

    But that is a little different pre order compared to something that is on backorder.. but I guess if you want your product at earliest available slot you need to pay for it, otherwise it is not yours, and you are waiting longer....

    He should however be able to cancel that transaction if it bothers him that much.
    05-19-10 12:24 PM
  6. snork's Avatar
    I wouldn't be so mad about the backordering (since it was advertised) but it's inexcusable to bill someone BEFORE the product is shipped. Isn't that illegal?

    I'd file a complaint. Don't let them do that crap.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    It's not illegal, but it is poor business practice. You're still paying for the device, the question is just when. Call Verizon and tell them to cancel the charge and bill you when it is shipped. It would be illegal for them to NOT do that.

    Sounds like what was said earlier, there isn't accurate, up to date information available to the reps, and unfortunately it seems like they aren't communicating with the billing departments well enough. Sucks you are stuck waiting, OP.. but the lashing out isn't going to get you anywhere. Just remain calm, explain how you've been wronged and see what they can do. The nicer you are to the sales reps, the more willing they will be to help you.
    05-19-10 12:37 PM
  7. Super_Mario's Avatar
    Believe me I know I'm not the only one waiting. All I'm asking for is some honesty when I talk to one of the reps when I call. supermario....that's pretty adult of you there. Way to go..
    Adult of me? That's the pot calling the kettle black. Did you not read your post? You were not only proud of being a belligerent ***** you called in only to act like a belligerent *****. I quoted EVERY instance in your post where not only did you claim you yelled and told off a rep or got angry but where you were proud of yourself for acting in such a way. Like it was some sort of achievement. So please, do not pretend you are an adult.
    05-19-10 12:50 PM
  8. Gawain's Avatar
    WRONG ! He is the customer..he is ALWAYS right.
    Ahem, that model is outdated. The customer is not always right. In fact, the customer is more often wrong.

    Any other attitude is wrong . What you just posted is the reason American business is going down the tubes.
    American business is hardly going down the tubes. Bending over backwards on the mantra of "customer always right" would put businesses out of business.

    This man bought a product that was not delivered and the vendor has a responsibility to deliver that product which it failed to do. He should not be upset???
    I don't discount the OPs being upset (though his delivery is a tad elevated).

    Come on now this holier then thou crap from customer service and business is what congress needs to tackle...start hitting guys like Verizon and AT&T in the pocket for this kind of crap. Deliver the goods within 10 days or give the customer a full refund.PERIOD
    Spoken like a true entitlement mentality. Congress has no business (or ability) to interfere in commerce like this. If VZW had committed to 10-day delivery schedules (which is long by VZW standards, usually it's a two-day time-frame) then yes, they should offer a refund or something for failing the commitment.
    ***** ain't free folks. It's been widely reported that there are component shortages for the Incredible for weeks. It's in a big red label on VZWs web-site about shipping by June 9th.
    05-19-10 03:29 PM
  9. CASActuary's Avatar
    Spoken like a true entitlement mentality. Congress has no business (or ability) to interfere in commerce like this. If VZW had committed to 10-day delivery schedules (which is long by VZW standards, usually it's a two-day time-frame) then yes, they should offer a refund or something for failing the commitment.

    ***** ain't free folks. It's been widely reported that there are component shortages for the Incredible for weeks. It's in a big red label on VZWs web-site about shipping by June 9th.
    Perhaps, then, Verizon shouldn't be entitled to free interest on millions of dollars from Incredible sales when the goods won't be delivered for a month?
    05-19-10 03:39 PM
  10. Gawain's Avatar
    Perhaps, then, Verizon shouldn't be entitled to free interest on millions of dollars from Incredible sales when the goods won't be delivered for a month?
    If you don't want to buy on VZWs terms and conditions, then you don't buy from VZW. There are plenty of indirect agents you can buy from too. There are certainly some available from private owners for sale on craigslist or ebay.

    OR....

    You can wait until they aren't on backorder.

    There are choices folks...none of them with instant gratification (which is what this entitlement generation thinks it deserves).

    As a shareholder of VZ, I'm all for them making a buck or billion....
    05-19-10 04:15 PM
  11. Feeeeg's Avatar
    Perhaps, then, Verizon shouldn't be entitled to free interest on millions of dollars from Incredible sales when the goods won't be delivered for a month?
    Any of you remember walmart's apparent gift card system downage three years back?

    The day after christmas when all the kiddies will be coming in with their parents to use their gift cards on games and music and other techno stuff, the walmart gift card system mysteriously went down for two days. Imagine all that money walmart made off that one?

    Two things happened here,
    1) walmart made a ton of money on interest while that money sat in the bank even if it was for a measly two days.
    2) what parent that takes their 5-12 year child is gonna tell their kids they cant have that $25 game that they have been waiting months for to get at christmas? So the parent says Ill buy it with my money and just take the gift card and spend it later, INSTANT DOUBLE IN SALES!!!

    Just thought I would share that,, I remember this incident every time i hear something like this.
    05-19-10 04:25 PM
  12. ericsmcdonald's Avatar
    If you don't want to buy on VZWs terms and conditions, then you don't buy from VZW. There are plenty of indirect agents you can buy from too. There are certainly some available from private owners for sale on craigslist or ebay.

    OR....

    You can wait until they aren't on backorder.

    There are choices folks...none of them with instant gratification (which is what this entitlement generation thinks it deserves).
    I agree with you, that there are choices. However, relating this to the "entitlement generation" is absurd. The OP, like any customer, is indeed entitled to OPEN DISCLOSURE about anything he or she orders, regardless of whether some of the information is posted on the website.

    If I understand the OP correctly, he was told that the phone would arrive by 5/12, then, when it didn't, he called, and was TWICE assured that it would ship the next day, and TWICE was told he couldn't talk to a manager.

    I agree with you about choice. And here's how it should have been handled.

    "Sir, the phone is on back-order. I can place the order for you now and charge your credit card now, and as soon as we are re-stocked it will ship to you. Our best estimate is no later than June 15th (or 9th or whatever the website states). Would you like me to place the order?"

    Then he has a choice. He wasn't GIVEN a choice. And now, if it's true that he cannot cancel the order, he still has NO choice.

    He is most certainly entitled to full disclosure about a purchasing decision. That applies to anyone of any generation. But to say that it's his fault because he's part of the "entitled generation" is an absurd insinuation.
    05-19-10 04:31 PM
  13. CASActuary's Avatar
    If you don't want to buy on VZWs terms and conditions, then you don't buy from VZW. There are plenty of indirect agents you can buy from too. There are certainly some available from private owners for sale on craigslist or ebay.

    OR....

    You can wait until they aren't on backorder.

    There are choices folks...none of them with instant gratification (which is what this entitlement generation thinks it deserves).

    As a shareholder of VZ, I'm all for them making a buck or billion....
    So, in your opinion, entitlement by a corporation is fine, just not individuals. Gotcha.

    To take the money before you have a product to ship is absurd.
    05-19-10 05:03 PM
  14. R.O.C.'s Avatar
    The Incredible sold out very quickly online, and Verizon immediately posted the "will ship by XX/XX" on the site. So when the phone was ordered, this sign was probably ignored...

    Your phone might not ship until the 29th....
    05-19-10 06:09 PM
  15. Gawain's Avatar
    So, in your opinion, entitlement by a corporation is fine, just not individuals. Gotcha.

    To take the money before you have a product to ship is absurd.
    I said no such thing. I pointed out the choices that any consumer has. One of them is to buy from VZW on VZW's terms and conditions.

    When I sign on sub-contractors for a project, we do so under my terms and conditions. If the sub doesn't like it, then they don't sign and I find another one. If you don't like the T&Cs for buying from VZW...there are a dozen other choices out there for service.

    Paying for a product before shipping is what you do every day. What do you think happens with any purchase you make online? ****, it happens in real life too...you pay at Best Buy before that TV leaves the store. You pay at the grocery store before you get to your car.

    Your soapbox is non-existent.
    05-19-10 06:29 PM
  16. wizard87's Avatar
    Ahem, that model is outdated. The customer is not always right. In fact, the customer is more often wrong.



    American business is hardly going down the tubes. Bending over backwards on the mantra of "customer always right" would put businesses out of business.



    I don't discount the OPs being upset (though his delivery is a tad elevated).



    Spoken like a true entitlement mentality. Congress has no business (or ability) to interfere in commerce like this. If VZW had committed to 10-day delivery schedules (which is long by VZW standards, usually it's a two-day time-frame) then yes, they should offer a refund or something for failing the commitment.
    ***** ain't free folks. It's been widely reported that there are component shortages for the Incredible for weeks. It's in a big red label on VZWs web-site about shipping by June 9th.
    You have no idea how many gunslingers with your attitude I have fired. Your so far out in left it's laughable.
    Tell your customer he is a @!$%W@! and is mostly wrong , see how long you stay in business.
    Government needs to protect folks from wolves that lie and avoid giving people what they paid for. Last I heard it was theft to pay for something and not receive it.
    05-19-10 06:44 PM
  17. snork's Avatar
    You have no idea how many gunslingers with your attitude I have fired. Your so far out in left it's laughable.
    Tell your customer he is a @!$%W@! and is mostly wrong , see how long you stay in business.
    Government needs to protect folks from wolves that lie and avoid giving people what they paid for. Last I heard it was theft to pay for something and not receive it.
    waa waa. If he wants a refund he can just call verizon and say hey refund my money and bill me when it ships. no big deal. there is no need to make a big stink because they billed you for your phone. just because it is on your bill doesn't even mean you have to pay it right away. dont pay it, if vzw tries to hit you with a late fee, call them and tell them hey, i haven't even gotten my phone, they'll remove it.

    companies make mistakes here and there. you can get your panties in a bunch when you happen to be a victim or you can roll with the punches. if you're going this crazy over something like this, i can't imagine what you'll do when you have a real problem.
    05-19-10 06:53 PM
  18. CASActuary's Avatar
    I said no such thing. I pointed out the choices that any consumer has. One of them is to buy from VZW on VZW's terms and conditions.

    When I sign on sub-contractors for a project, we do so under my terms and conditions. If the sub doesn't like it, then they don't sign and I find another one. If you don't like the T&Cs for buying from VZW...there are a dozen other choices out there for service.

    Paying for a product before shipping is what you do every day. What do you think happens with any purchase you make online? ****, it happens in real life too...you pay at Best Buy before that TV leaves the store. You pay at the grocery store before you get to your car.

    Your soapbox is non-existent.
    Actually, when I preorder with Amazon, or order something out of stock, they charge me WHEN it ships. Amazon just treats its customers better than/has better customer service than Verizon. I figured that waiting until a product actually exists to charge people was common sense. Silly me.

    You comparisons to Best Buy or the grocery store are not apt, as the item is in my possession. Even when ordering other places online, they've shipped my item, it's on the way to me, so paying makes sense. In this case, there is no item yet. Nice try though. Go easier on the strawman next time.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Last edited by CASActuary; 05-19-10 at 07:04 PM.
    05-19-10 07:00 PM
  19. Gawain's Avatar
    You have no idea how many gunslingers with your attitude I have fired. Your so far out in left it's laughable.
    Tell your customer he is a @!$%W@! and is mostly wrong , see how long you stay in business.
    Government needs to protect folks from wolves that lie and avoid giving people what they paid for. Last I heard it was theft to pay for something and not receive it.
    Can't fire me, I don't work for VZW (and VZComm) and when I did, I was in Major Accounts, and yes...had to tell other companies (customers) when they were wrong.

    As for VZW, can you name a pattern of behavior by this company that shows people who by and large, pay for a product and service, and do not receive it?

    If anything, the exposure to the contrary exists. How many consumers that signed the dotted line, then whine when they "didn't know" about going over minutes or $1.99/MB for data, or tethering without the feature activated, ad infinitum.

    If you need to government to protect you from your lack of being an educated consumer (caveat emptor) then please allow me to consult with you on a parcel of beach-front property in South Dakota I'd like to sell you.

    I'm not defending VZWs poor performance in handling the OPs queries, but he was clearly off the hook...and it's not an indicator of what is a pretty well run company.
    05-19-10 07:07 PM
  20. jahoobob's Avatar
    there was no disclaimer on the website when i ordered...
    There has always been a tag on the Incredible stating the ship date. I believe it has changed to the current 6/10 since there is a reported parts shortage.
    05-19-10 10:58 PM
  21. Super_Mario's Avatar
    There has always been a tag on the Incredible stating the ship date. I believe it has changed to the current 6/10 since there is a reported parts shortage.
    Thats a pretty obvious disclaimer. The OP must have been so drunk with rage, yelling and cussing at reps and supervisors, to notice.
    05-20-10 12:35 AM
  22. rgray331975's Avatar
    how can you **** a phone or a face for that matter??
    05-20-10 08:34 AM
  23. rgray331975's Avatar
    well i guess you can a face, but not your own. ive tried
    05-20-10 08:35 AM
  24. Super_Mario's Avatar
    well i guess you can a face, but not your own. Ive tried
    .....hahahahahahaha!
    05-20-10 12:11 PM
  25. champr's Avatar
    Funny but the day the phone was released I was on VZW website and looked at the phone. It didn't have a flag stating the shipping date. A few days later when I looked it did. But based on the OP statement, I take it that he called to order the phone, not that he ordered in over the internet. I completely agree with him being upset since they continually told him incorrect information. While getting upset on the phone with CS probably didn't do anything to help his side, they sould have told him the truth from the beginning. There is also no reason to bill him for the phone until it ships.
    05-20-10 01:02 PM
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