02-18-09 09:42 AM
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  1. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    It matters not who I 'convince' for I am not here to convince.

    The topic is titled VZW Insurance is a Ripoff or something to that effect. I simply agreed with that premise & added that they are all a rippoff; that VZW is probably the least so.

    If I cannot add in personal experience, then what I say has less meaningand, to your assertion that I am not convincing anyone, some of the other comments posted, as well as multiple PMs tell me otherwise.

    By the way, I would never place my living environment in the care of an employer. Lose your job and you're not only out of work, you're out of a home. This tells me you're not convincing anyone of your ability to make anywhere near the decisions needed for financial security.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    02-04-09 12:49 AM
  2. taddley's Avatar
    Some yes - those with poor credit, few possessions and/or fumble-fingers, might be able to benefit from it. I don't mean to say that only those kinds of people buy the insurance, as much of the sales tactics for cell-phone insurance sounds pretty good ...

    I don't pay extra for no-deductible on my phone - I pay extra for no deductible on the lower dollar items - pretty much anything under $5000 or so. The phones fall under this, and the crazy thing is, it costs me only about $60/year extra for the zero deductible

    You can add levels of coverage for suprisingly little - or reconfigure your coverage to include it.

    That basic personal use rider, minus the higher dollar items, as I mentioned above, is $60/year. Let's do a little math on the subject. I lose a laptop and a BlackBerry in one year. I paid $60 for some piece of mind and some coverage. Even if my deductible was $50 per event, I would've paid $160. Now lets say you have VZW insurance (or whomever, as the VZW insurance is by far the best cell carrier insurance), you'd pay $6/mo for 12 months out of the year for $72. Now you lose a phone and you're out another $50. You get a used or refurbished phone (read the Asurion policy, folks), while I get a new one. You're out $122 and still don't have your laptop, your watch, your guns, your jewelry covered. BUT I didn't pay a deductible, so I paid $60, or less than half what you paid.

    Now if you're with a company for renter's insurance, some of these options may not be available - some of the online carriers may have a cap or a deductible, but most of the mainline companies will offer similar coverages. By mainline, I am not referring to Geico or Progressive or whatnot. I am talking about American Family, Liberty Mutual, State Farm, Mass Mutual, etc.

    There is no "standard" homeowner's insurance, unless you're talking about some sort of subsidized socialist model of insurance (Medicare, anyone?). Policies vary widely from company to company and even within the same company.

    They send it within 24 hours, IF they have it in stock. If they don't, you get to wait or take a lesser phone. The wait time can be for as long as 8 weeks.

    If I was, that would still be better than the $72 you get soaked for cell phone insurance. Asurion is making a living while paying the VZW's & the Sprint's of the world as much as 60% commission. I wonder what kind of real insurance you'd get if it were added on top of an existing plan you already pay for?


    Now, look at the Asurion promise:

    2. Our Options
    At our option, we or Asurion Insurance Services, Inc., may provide
    substitute equipment or repair the Covered Property with substitute
    parts, of like kind, quality and functionality...

    As I said before - if you want to toss money away for cell phone insurance, that is your decision. All I am saying is that there are better options that are a lot cheaper.

    If you're poor or have bad credit, you may have fewer options - then again, if you're poor or have bad credit, maybe its because you've not been making sound financial decisions & tossing money away on cell phone insurance. Of course, the way I look at it, if you're poor or have bad credit, you don't have any business carrying a BlackBerry.

    TwinsX:

    Thanks again. As long as the mods don't throw us out, I'll continue to discuss - and don't worry about flowers - iron sharpens iron.

    I'm not sure I understand the reason for your first few paragraphs ... but, that's my problem. Suffice to say, your story of the fraud-girl illustrates why we all pay higher premiums.

    "...those with poor credit, few possessions, or fumble fingers"? What? TwinsX, forgive me, but this comment is just inane. And add to that your implication that "sales tactics" have duped all these poor idiots into purchasing insurance coverage? Wow.

    You don't pay extra ... but, you do pay extra ... and it's $60 for no deductible. Fine. As mentioned, you pay something for your phone cover.

    Agreed. You can add coverage ... "for surprisingly little". But, again, this is a relative term. You are still paying.

    Ok. $122 versus $60. That's terrific for those who pay to have this cover. But, there are those that don't have other forms of insurance, etc. or who (like me) purposefully carry high deductibles on home, auto and health to save significant money. And by significant, I mean a number that you would agree is significant.

    Geico and Progressive *are* mainline companies. But, irrespective ... Liberty Mutual? Agreed. Mainline. And also the underwriter for ... Asurion. I think CNA and Continental Casualty (certainly mainline) may have a piece of the portfolio, as well.

    "There is no standard insurance ... unless you're talking about a subsidized socialist model"? TwinsX ... every state department of insurance requires standard admitted carriers (as opposed to excess & surplus writers) to file their "standard" insurance contract forms with the state, the terms and conditions of which must include "standardized" and regulated terms and conditions. Not socialism. Simply self-regulation to avoid getting sideways with McCarren-Ferguson and other regulatory. "Standard" policies do vary, but within stipulated guidelines. Sheesh.

    For Blackberry replacements - I defy you to find a material number of individuals who have waited eight weeks for replacement and/or who have not received their model of BB. Not LG. Not Motorola. Not the inexpensive subsidized phones. ... Blackberry. And not a bunch of trumped-up malcontents. I'm talking about people who can reasonably substantiate an abuse.

    You call 72 bucks a soaking? Really? And I have no disagreement about those who can do it better with existing cover. Again, I have no disagreement about those who can do it better. My bone is the tag "Rip-off". But, because of the way I structure deductibles, I wouldn't necessarily opt for this alternative. And I'm not a poor credit, fumble fingered ***** with no material possessions. So, "better" options that are "a lot" cheaper. Again, you're calling $62 to $72 plus a deductible "a lot"?

    Speaking of socialism ... you presume to tell someone that they shouldn't have a cell phone, or you decry the open marketplace and the receipt of a 60% commission?

    The Asurion contract language you've included is not a big departure from standard insuring clause language from a property policy. Check your insuring clause in your standard homeowners / auto / other property cover ... it will have substantially similar reservation of rights language about replacement, with like kind and ability to substitute, parts procurement, etc.

    Oh, incidentally, I am one of the poor dumb idiots who was duped by a shifty salesman into buying this incredible rip-off scam. Three days after I purchased an 8830, my silly fumble-fingered self dropped my 8830 in the toilet. I received an exact replacement in less than 24 hours, no shipping cost, with a prepaid return package for my damaged phone. Right now, I am up about $125. My wife now uses the replacement 8830 and, for reasons I won't go into, I like it better than the original. And please, spare me the all the horse-pucky about how I'm using Bob's refurbished reject that was dropped in *his* toilet 3 weeks ago.

    Your turn.
    02-04-09 01:59 AM
  3. RicanMedic78's Avatar
    No offense, but the insurance company really could care less if you BREAK your phone or you lose it. Either way, you have to pay the deductible and can do only 2/yr.

    And the insurance is not a rip-off. For the tons of people who break their phone, they need that insurance.

    And sorry but its just like car insurance. You pay the rates and you may have to pay something at the time of accident for a certain part of the repairs.

    And I've had a cell phone for 6 years...I've never had one broken or lost. I've been hard on them, but honestly...people...its still an electronic. You do need to be careful with them.

    Yes, accidents happen. But thats why you would carry the insurance.
    the debate is not whether insurance in general is good to have. Its whether the cost of this insurance is worth the price. Its not like "any" price will do, just because we're calling it "insurance!"
    02-04-09 08:36 AM
  4. thinkamp's Avatar
    hahaha actually its really not. i've had my bb over half a year and have never has to use my insurance. and who would break their phone not only once but 2 times? pffft just take care of your bb like its a baby and it will all be okay!!
    02-04-09 08:38 AM
  5. RicanMedic78's Avatar
    hahaha actually its really not. i've had my bb over half a year and have never has to use my insurance. and who would break their phone not only once but 2 times? pffft just take care of your bb like its a baby and it will all be okay!!
    exactly! Mine stays holstered and by my side at all times! If I do end up with a once in a lifetime accident, I'll revert back to my old phone until I get the 2 year price again... simple!
    02-04-09 08:46 AM
  6. thinkamp's Avatar
    exactly! Mine stays holstered and by my side at all times! If I do end up with a once in a lifetime accident, I'll revert back to my old phone until I get the 2 year price again... simple!
    Mine just stays in his cute little purple condom. I am guilty of dropping him, but never caused him any hospitalized damage! haha, but I would just use my insurance if it ever came down to it. 50$ verses God knows how much, def a much better deal! I really just want the 8900 to come out or even the bold!
    02-04-09 08:54 AM
  7. hagosrush's Avatar
    I should probably feel bad doing this but it seems verizon could do at least a little better with insurance. If i lose or break my phone and have to replace it i have to pay 50 bucks on top of the monthly fee i already pay plus i can only get two replacements a year

    My girlfriend has sprint and they pay some fairly low monthly fee and get unlimited yearly replacements with no deductible...


    So do you think it is justified to say that i "lost" my phone when i actually broke it so that i can keep all the accessories? Seems like such a ripoff that i have to pay them to get just the phone without any accessories for a broken phone
    I have had VZW for a while before I switched over to ATT. Listen...it is understandable that you broke your phone and everything...considering all of that you did not have have to shell out the money for a brand new phone. All you paid was $50. You really should be great-full considering your circumstances.
    02-04-09 08:59 AM
  8. mab4285's Avatar
    It matters not who I 'convince' for I am not here to convince.

    The topic is titled VZW Insurance is a Ripoff or something to that effect. I simply agreed with that premise & added that they are all a rippoff; that VZW is probably the least so.

    If I cannot add in personal experience, then what I say has less meaningand, to your assertion that I am not convincing anyone, some of the other comments posted, as well as multiple PMs tell me otherwise.

    By the way, I would never place my living environment in the care of an employer. Lose your job and you're not only out of work, you're out of a home. This tells me you're not convincing anyone of your ability to make anywhere near the decisions needed for financial security.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Well, considering my position is a residence hall director at a university and I am required by my job to live on campus in the residence hall and saving up to buy my house when the time is appropriate, I am very well capable of making the decisions needed to secure my financial security in the future.

    I don't expect you to know the ins and outs of the student affairs profession, but please do not attack me saying I don't have the decision making skills to secure my financial future.
    02-04-09 11:09 AM
  9. Kaylajoy21's Avatar
    the debate is not whether insurance in general is good to have. Its whether the cost of this insurance is worth the price. Its not like "any" price will do, just because we're calling it "insurance!"
    But thats what I mean...for the ppl who break their phone, the insurance is worth it. I've seen ppl say its not worth it and they are back a week later with a broken phone.
    02-04-09 01:26 PM
  10. snork's Avatar
    $6/month equals out to a whopping $120 for the length of your contract. If you'd rather pay the $500 for a new phone from VZW, or possibly find one for $400-450 on ebay, go for it.. but to me, its just peace of mind. I normally don't get insurance, but since the storm is a new phone and the only one with a click screen, i found it might be nice to have insurance. not only if something goes wrong, but its peace of mind knowing IF something does, verizon will take care of it, you don't have to go through the manufacturer, who also only covers the phone for the first year of your typical 2 year contract.

    so yes, if you lose your phone once, and pay the deductible, you'll have paid $170 basically to get that new phone. still $200-$300+ less than you'd pay if you have to buy a new one outright.

    Your call though, the insurance is optional, so if you really think its a rip, you have the beauty of CHOICE on your side.
    02-04-09 03:36 PM
  11. RicanMedic78's Avatar
    But thats what I mean...for the ppl who break their phone, the insurance is worth it. I've seen ppl say its not worth it and they are back a week later with a broken phone.
    same goes the other way around. Im not saying it isn't worth it for some. I mean it has to be or there will be no business for these companies. But as for me, its way too much. If I do break my phone and have to pay full price, I could do that once and it'll still be cheaper than a lifetime of insurance deductibles and monthly payments.

    Then to think that all u have to do is keep ur phone safe for a year (that way u can buy a new one at the 2 year price if it breaks after the first year) or u can just revert back to an old phone till ur able to upgrade... its simple! Insurance not needed! EVER!

    I have a curve now... if it broke, I can still get a new phone with $50 off since I'm passed the first year. But if I wasn't, I'd just revert back to my old LG 8330. Then if that broke, I'd revert back to my LG 7000. If that broke, I'd go back to my motorola T720. if that broke, I'd go back to my startac, LOL. And if my one day my future CDMA niagra/bold or whatever they'll call it broke, I'd just use my curve until I was able to upgrade again, LOL

    Phone cases are also my friend! If ur prone to breaking ur phone, buy an otterbox case and save ur insurance money!
    Last edited by RicanMedic78; 02-04-09 at 06:43 PM.
    02-04-09 05:39 PM
  12. lastraid's Avatar
    same goes the other way around. Im not saying it isn't worth it for some. I mean it has to be or there will be no business for these companies. But as for me, its way too much. If I do break my phone and have to pay full price, I could do that once and it'll still be cheaper than a lifetime of insurance deductibles and monthly payments.

    Then to think that all u have to do is keep ur phone safe for a year (that way u can buy a new one at the 2 year price if it breaks after the first year) or u can just revert back to an old phone till ur able to upgrade... its simple! Insurance not needed! EVER!

    I have a curve now... if it broke, I can still get a new phone with $50 off since I'm passed the first year. But if I wasn't, I'd just revert back to my old LG 8330. Then if that broke, I'd revert back to my LG 7000. And if my one day CDMA bold or curve broke, I'd just use my curve until I was able to upgrade again, LOL
    not a bad idea unless you break or lose the phone in second month of your 2 year contract. THen you have to back to your old phone for 8 months min. till you get your early upgrade option.
    02-04-09 05:45 PM
  13. RicanMedic78's Avatar
    not a bad idea unless you break or lose the phone in second month of your 2 year contract. THen you have to back to your old phone for 8 months min. till you get your early upgrade option.
    LOL, I actually found my old motorola star tac right after I wrote that last post. I editied it to add that phone. Guess u quoted be before I edited it! Thought it was funny how far back I can go.

    I don't own anything older than that but man, I get nostalgic just thinkin ab out how far back I can actually go!
    02-04-09 06:02 PM
  14. lastraid's Avatar
    Star Tac. This is funny, the guy next to me had a call in and the customer was still using one of these. We almost did not know trouble shoot it anymore hahaha
    02-04-09 06:07 PM
  15. OHCop's Avatar
    I remember my good ole' Star Tac. Now that was a cool phone. Lol!

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    02-04-09 06:55 PM
  16. RicanMedic78's Avatar
    just the idea that its still tickin shows u how awesome that phone was. Right around the time the T720 came out, thats when motorola went to sh*t in my book, lol.

    I had to buy my mom an updated LG for christmas '07 just to pry that star tac from her hands! She loved it that much! As for the LG, great phone, technology is far beyond her capability tho... and thats not even a smart phone, LOL!

    Now for my star tac, I'd def put insurance on that bad boy!!! Just doubt they'd have a replacement lying around to give me if it broke, lol! I think I'll keep it in my drawer as my collectors piece
    02-04-09 08:06 PM
  17. lastraid's Avatar
    Take the tax write off and donate it to the smithsonian
    02-04-09 08:18 PM
  18. RicanMedic78's Avatar
    had to do it....

    02-04-09 08:57 PM
  19. jwilson6's Avatar
    Who could forget the lovely Star Tac lol

    Anyways, back to the insurance thing:

    For me, it makes me more comfortable carrying around a $500 BB with insurance just because it's easier to take $5 a month from my income with a potential $50 somewhere down the line than it is to spend $500 on a replacement.

    Even if I don't end up ever needing a replacement, after 2 years that $5 a month was well spent because it made me feel better carrying my Storm around.
    02-08-09 01:46 AM
  20. NayNer's Avatar
    I have Sprint and their fee is $7 a month for insurance. You can only file 2 claims a year and I just got a letter in the mail saying that some phones will stay at a $50 deductable but others will be a $100 deductable now. And wouldn't you know it...all the Blackberry devices went up to a $100 deductable. So Verizon's insurance is actually better than Sprint's.
    02-08-09 02:10 PM
  21. Queen4111's Avatar
    If you're on a 2 year contract, just get insurance for the first year.

    I'm on a 1 year contract, and I canceled my insurance after 6 months.

    New BB's come out every year. Most likely, I'll be upgrading.
    Plus, I have a old 7105t as a backup anyway.
    02-08-09 03:22 PM
  22. Beachman50's Avatar
    I wouldn't think twice about not having insurance with three teenagers with phones....the 13 yo has an Alias that was replaced twice in 4 months....neither a fault of his actually(honestly) My 14 yo daughter dropped her nVie in the toilet and my 17yo son has had his BB replaced once. What everyone has failed to mention is the fact that if you use both claims for the yr you are not charged the monthly amount for the remainder of the yr.
    02-08-09 03:56 PM
  23. Ginfro's Avatar
    I should probably feel bad doing this but it seems verizon could do at least a little better with insurance. If i lose or break my phone and have to replace it i have to pay 50 bucks on top of the monthly fee i already pay plus i can only get two replacements a year

    My girlfriend has sprint and they pay some fairly low monthly fee and get unlimited yearly replacements with no deductible...


    So do you think it is justified to say that i "lost" my phone when i actually broke it so that i can keep all the accessories? Seems like such a ripoff that i have to pay them to get just the phone without any accessories for a broken phone
    So.... what you are saying is that the company should replace your phone at no cost because of your stupidity? Does Honda replace your Civic because you wrap it around a tree? Does Sony replace your PS3 because you get pissed off and kick it? Does Phillips replace your tv if you get drunk and knock it over? Answer.... no.

    BTW, at verizon, they replace your phones for manufacters defects, so you don't HAVE to go through Asurion. I cracked my screen when I was being dumb, $50 in store, out the door with new curve. Yes you have two claims a year, but its only for damage thats TOO severe that they refuse to replace it in store. Lets put it this way, if you get your phone wet, lose it, or get it stolen more than twice in a year, you don't deserve to own a phone. Period.

    Quit b****ing and get over it, at least they replace it at all so you don't have to pay $500 bucks for a new blackberry.
    Last edited by Ginfro; 02-08-09 at 04:55 PM.
    02-08-09 04:27 PM
  24. Pauley#CB's Avatar
    Read this and I am sorry, but sounds like someone is twisting things jsut for the sake of argument.

    TwinsX:

    Thanks again. As long as the mods don't throw us out, I'll continue to discuss - and don't worry about flowers - iron sharpens iron.

    I'm not sure I understand the reason for your first few paragraphs ... but, that's my problem. Suffice to say, your story of the fraud-girl illustrates why we all pay higher premiums.

    "...those with poor credit, few possessions, or fumble fingers"? What? TwinsX, forgive me, but this comment is just inane. And add to that your implication that "sales tactics" have duped all these poor idiots into purchasing insurance coverage? Wow.

    You don't pay extra ... but, you do pay extra ... and it's $60 for no deductible. Fine. As mentioned, you pay something for your phone cover.

    Agreed. You can add coverage ... "for surprisingly little". But, again, this is a relative term. You are still paying.

    Ok. $122 versus $60. That's terrific for those who pay to have this cover. But, there are those that don't have other forms of insurance, etc. or who (like me) purposefully carry high deductibles on home, auto and health to save significant money. And by significant, I mean a number that you would agree is significant.

    Geico and Progressive *are* mainline companies. But, irrespective ... Liberty Mutual? Agreed. Mainline. And also the underwriter for ... Asurion. I think CNA and Continental Casualty (certainly mainline) may have a piece of the portfolio, as well.

    "There is no standard insurance ... unless you're talking about a subsidized socialist model"? TwinsX ... every state department of insurance requires standard admitted carriers (as opposed to excess & surplus writers) to file their "standard" insurance contract forms with the state, the terms and conditions of which must include "standardized" and regulated terms and conditions. Not socialism. Simply self-regulation to avoid getting sideways with McCarren-Ferguson and other regulatory. "Standard" policies do vary, but within stipulated guidelines. Sheesh.

    For Blackberry replacements - I defy you to find a material number of individuals who have waited eight weeks for replacement and/or who have not received their model of BB. Not LG. Not Motorola. Not the inexpensive subsidized phones. ... Blackberry. And not a bunch of trumped-up malcontents. I'm talking about people who can reasonably substantiate an abuse.

    You call 72 bucks a soaking? Really? And I have no disagreement about those who can do it better with existing cover. Again, I have no disagreement about those who can do it better. My bone is the tag "Rip-off". But, because of the way I structure deductibles, I wouldn't necessarily opt for this alternative. And I'm not a poor credit, fumble fingered ***** with no material possessions. So, "better" options that are "a lot" cheaper. Again, you're calling $62 to $72 plus a deductible "a lot"?

    Speaking of socialism ... you presume to tell someone that they shouldn't have a cell phone, or you decry the open marketplace and the receipt of a 60% commission?

    The Asurion contract language you've included is not a big departure from standard insuring clause language from a property policy. Check your insuring clause in your standard homeowners / auto / other property cover ... it will have substantially similar reservation of rights language about replacement, with like kind and ability to substitute, parts procurement, etc.

    Oh, incidentally, I am one of the poor dumb idiots who was duped by a shifty salesman into buying this incredible rip-off scam. Three days after I purchased an 8830, my silly fumble-fingered self dropped my 8830 in the toilet. I received an exact replacement in less than 24 hours, no shipping cost, with a prepaid return package for my damaged phone. Right now, I am up about $125. My wife now uses the replacement 8830 and, for reasons I won't go into, I like it better than the original. And please, spare me the all the horse-pucky about how I'm using Bob's refurbished reject that was dropped in *his* toilet 3 weeks ago.

    Your turn.
    He mentioned he pays extra for enhanced coverage for his laptops and I would assume gps, ipod and other electronics. So he isn't paying extra for his phone. I have similar insurance riders on my homeowners insurance I didn't know I had it until my agent pointed it out to me. I pay nothing extra and all
    my family's phones are covered with no deductible. I am sure that if the loss ratio got too high my premiums might go up but we have averaged a replacement about every 16 months with four phones. Not bad considering the asurion scam would cost me how much? $5x4x16 months=$320 per 16 months plus $50. That's awfully expensive to get a refurbished or used phone especially when there is no guarantee I would even get the same phone. My insurance (Liberty Mutual by the way) guarantees a new replacement as long as the device is less than two years old with the same device or its market replacement.

    And your wrong Tadberry. Geico and Progressive may be A rated companies but they are not considered the old-line full service companies. There is a difference between them and companies like State Farm, Liberty, Farmers and AmFam. Maybe if twins had said old-line or full service you might have understood. Geico is the old Government Employees Insurance Company. Progressive evolved from a high-risk outfit to include lower risk policies too. Even though both are now opening local offices neither has agents who will come to my home and sit down to get to know my needes or my family needs. When my wife got into a major traffic accident two years ago my agent was the one who called me and he was at the hopsital before I was and had made the calls to alert the school that the kids would be picked up late. Kinda nice when youre on a first name basis with your agent. You dont get that from Geico or Progressive or Titan.

    The cellphone industry is a ripoff and has a horrible rating with the bbb and has many lawsuits and injunctions out there against them. I can rationalize bad choices all day long and I can pick apart the best of arguments but in the end the only people who'd believe me would be those making the same flawed rationalizations. Those who are smarted probably aren't reading anyway. I will validate the original question with a little change.

    Is (insert your cell carrier here)'s Insurance a Ripoff? YES. Without reservations, YES. You cannot justify the expense using real accounting practices or an acceptable loss/risk ratio. What would be the loss risk ratio compared to other things? $5000-$12000 annual insurance premium on your $20000 car yet you still have a $2500 deductible. Maybe paying $10000 per month in insurance for your $210000 home and if it burns down you would still have to cough up $50000. That is the unacceptable loss risk ratio when you bring it into apples and apples. Would you pay that much for car insurance or home insurance? Your friends and family and neighbors would all say you were a fool who lost his mind. And you still try to rationalize getting taken to the cleaners by asurion or whoever? If you need to make yourself feel better then go ahead. It is still a stupid purchase.
    02-16-09 01:57 PM
  25. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    I swore I was going to avoid this topic as no matter what the answer or how one responded, someone would get their panties in a wad.

    But I guess I should've said "FULL SERVICE, OLD LINE, TRADITIONAL INSURANCE CARRIERS."

    Some people will twist the semantics game to suit their argument, no matter how it is played.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    02-16-09 02:52 PM
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