1. reagan247's Avatar
    If you do not like and it is this important to you, why are you with VZW, or better yet why not ask yourself, why does not sprint block it? If they did they could make more money and not be at the brink of banruptcy
    You have two problems in your statement...

    1. Sprint isn't going bankrupt (and I correctly spelled it). Between selling off the Sprint cell towers and leasing them like the rest of the companies do, the related revenue increase from the cell tower workers salaries staying retained, and they slight growth this quarter it's had to speculate they bankruptcy (spelled that one right too)
    2. Actually, Sprint just lost a court case (it effects ALL U.S. Carriers) that explicitly layed out the property rights of a consumer/carrier agreement. It states when you do pay for a phone, you own it as purchased property, not as rented or leased. It always for a consumer to demand their phone be unlocked at the end of their agreed contract... So theoretically, you need to sue VZW in court at the end of your contract for GPS

    Thanks,

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    08-24-08 04:08 AM
  2. vatothe0's Avatar
    Congratulations on figuring out how to operate spell check. Now maybe you can try woking on your grammar so you don't sound like a 3rd grader. I only bring up grammar because you made an issue of spelling.

    Verizon owns most of the towers they use. Some are shared with other carriers, but they certainly do not lease them all as you implied.

    Sprint saw an improvement? They lost 901,000 net customers and had churn around 2%. Was Sprint's "improvement" to be slightly less terrible? I guess they have to take what they can get.
    08-24-08 04:45 AM
  3. ennTOXX's Avatar
    I am not saying I disagree or agree. I am not even against you getting a petition together, or a person that might even get a law suit together, as I have seen talk about that as well. This is the american way. This will let a business know the interest in getting something done about the situation.

    What bothers me about it is the Bit*hing and moaning and name calling and bashing. It just gets OLD!

    As I stated before, if this is a feature that is that important to you, why are you with VZW if you know they disable it? there is a reason I am sure. There are also many other options to achieve GPS access.

    I am sure there are reasons that VZW does this. Whether it is for making making money with VZNav or a Security Issue on their network, or whatever. It is VZW's business to run. kinda like no shirt, no shoes, no service. If the business chooses to serve you without a shirt so be it, but the guy with the shirt will complain about it and get others to do it as well.

    Guess this will open a can worms, should be fun
    You actually haven't thought that maybe there are many people that cannot choose so freely on which wireless carrier you can and cannot use?

    Oh I see, no matter where I am I should be able to get any cellular company's signal. No wonder you think that if he doesn't like verizon he could just go to another wireless carrier. Makes sense living in your own little world doesn't it?

    The next thing you'll tell us is pigs can fly.
    I'd like to visit your perfect little world sometime. Maybe I can bounce around on the many wireless carriers you have there . . . :||

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Last edited by ennTOXX; 08-24-08 at 04:56 AM.
    08-24-08 04:52 AM
  4. lastraid's Avatar
    You actually haven't thought that maybe there are many people that cannot choose so freely on which wireless carrier you can and cannot use?

    Oh I see, no matter where I am I should be able to get any cellular company's signal. No wonder you think that if he doesn't like verizon he could just go to another wireless carrier. Makes sense living in your own little world doesn't it?

    The next thing you'll tell us is pigs can fly.
    I'd like to visit your perfect little world sometime. Maybe I can bounce around on the many wireless carriers you have there . . . :||

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Hmm interesting, I am not aware of any market that VZW a monopoly on coverage, I know there are areas where VZW does not have coverage and uses tower agreements to get it. Although if all goes well this will no longer be an issue over the couple of years. If this is the case I would like to hear from others that have VZW because they do not have options to go with carrier.

    MY OWN LITTLE WORLD: I see by your location, in comparison that my location is a small world. Long Beach - part of Los Angeles. I am in the city of Rio Rancho - most people say where? Guess what!, I can get VZW, Altell, ATT, Cricket, oh yes even Sprint.

    Yes pigs can fly - I saw a video on the net once. We all know that if you see on the net it must be true.
    08-24-08 08:23 AM
  5. lastraid's Avatar
    You have two problems in your statement...

    1. Sprint isn't going bankrupt (and I correctly spelled it). Between selling off the Sprint cell towers and leasing them like the rest of the companies do, the related revenue increase from the cell tower workers salaries staying retained, and they slight growth this quarter it's had to speculate they bankruptcy (spelled that one right too)
    2. Actually, Sprint just lost a court case (it effects ALL U.S. Carriers) that explicitly layed out the property rights of a consumer/carrier agreement. It states when you do pay for a phone, you own it as purchased property, not as rented or leased. It always for a consumer to demand their phone be unlocked at the end of their agreed contract... So theoretically, you need to sue VZW in court at the end of your contract for GPS

    Thanks,

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

    Yes - thank you for pointing out that I forgot to type a "K" in bankruptcy. my day is now made.

    There are other other things that Sprint ,in my opinion is doing that makes me believe they are heading this way. Everything for $99. Sound great!, this is called giving your service away. If it is so great, why are they losing customers left and right, rather then a flood of customers coming to their service? I bet this might the greater reson the sold off their towers to they can afford to do this.
    Last edited by lastraid; 08-24-08 at 10:37 AM.
    08-24-08 08:35 AM
  6. lockerc18's Avatar
    I join the chorus of posters here and elsewhere who call on VZW to unlock the GPS hardware.

    I tried VZNavigator on an extended (6 hour) trip last week, and I have to say the GPS hardware in the Curve worked very well. I called VZW to inquire about any promotions for VZNavigator, and the rep told me there's a 30-day free trial on it now, so I got that. The rep also confirmed that VZNavigator does not use air time minutes or data charges, and communicates directly with the satellites. I can vouch for the satellite part. Actually, a very helpful rep.

    I was really impressed with the location information in the program. It has active measures for things like current speed, which was exactly accurate compared to my speedo. And the lat/long data was accurate as far as I could tell.

    But the program itself lacks some usability features, like having a zoomable map. A friend has a Garmin, and I compared the trip logistics between the two, and they were the same. But the Garmin was much more usable than VZN in terms of seeing the actual route taken, and other interface things.

    Also, VZN programmed a particular route to my destination, but that wasn't how I was going to go. I couldn't figure out how to get it to use an alternate route, except for stopping the program after a while and starting navigation up again. Before I did that, it nagged me at every intersection to turn around and get back on the right route. Nag nag nag.

    So, net: I wouldn't buy VZN for 10 bucks a month. Yes, it does a good job in what it does, but it lacks some features I'd want. The GPS hardware works very well in the Curve, and having that unlocked for another program to use, like the version of Garmin for BBs, would be the best. I know VZW isn't real interested in helping the competition like that, but from a customer viewpoint, that's what I'd want.
    08-24-08 10:17 AM
  7. LiliC's Avatar
    I think the answer is to pepper Verizon with features we'd like to see with the GPS...I'm sure it can be done.

    Liz< from Cincinnati where pigs DO fly
    08-24-08 10:33 AM
  8. Five's Avatar
    You mean you don't want to discuss facts that are contrary to your viewpoint.

    Your statement implied Verizon lost a suit about disabling features, which is not true.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Please look up the definition of the words in my post that you don't understand. It will help.
    08-24-08 12:00 PM
  9. anon(368121)'s Avatar
    Interesting that you picked the one quote that was incorrect to stand behind. Using the BB's built in GPS does not use VZW's servers and networks. That's the whole reason to put GPS on a phone, so you can choose which service you want.
    aGPS is fairly well documented, Five. Please provide proof of the incorrectness of my post.

    I also addressed the autonomous GPS issue, so you may want to enroll in a remedial reading comprehension course.
    08-24-08 12:05 PM
  10. LiliC's Avatar
    Gads, but it's gotten ugly in here.
    08-24-08 12:08 PM
  11. anon(368121)'s Avatar
    I agree that if the GPS functionality of the device requires the use of carrier-provided services (i.e. a PDE server), then it's perfectly reasonable to charge for the use of that service. Unfortunately they aren't charging for use of their PDE server, they're charging for use of an application that utilizes their PDE server.

    However much as they're making with VZ Navigator at $10 per month, they could make more by charging $10 per month for using their PDE server, and allowing customers to use VZ Navigator at no additional charge, or even a nominal charge beyond charging for use of the PDE server.

    There are *SOME* who are complaining that they can't use the GPS in their devices for *FREE*, but I see many more who are content with VZ Navigator (for what it does), but would like to see Verizon make the GPS functionality available to other apps - apps for which Verizon offers no alternative, at any price. The latter group would probably happily pay slightly more for an unlocked GPS.
    Verizon doesn't publish the addresses of their PDE servers, reserving them for use by VZW-developed or approved (i.e. those that contribute to VZW's revenue stream) applications. Saying that they don't charge for the use of the servers is pretty much irrelevant, since the only applications that can use them are the ones they charge for . . .
    08-24-08 12:33 PM
  12. Five's Avatar
    Verizon doesn't publish the addresses of their PDE servers, reserving them for use by VZW-developed or approved (i.e. those that contribute to VZW's revenue stream) applications. Saying that they don't charge for the use of the servers is pretty much irrelevant, since the only applications that can use them are the ones they charge for . . .
    Thank you, you have just invalidated your own argument. Problem solved, now we can all move on.
    08-24-08 01:01 PM
  13. kpxstar9's Avatar
    /popcorn

    Its gettin good in here

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    08-24-08 02:26 PM
  14. anon(368121)'s Avatar
    Thank you, you have just invalidated your own argument. Problem solved, now we can all move on.
    Having trouble filling out the registration for the remedial reading comprehension course, Five? Maybe your mom can help.

    My argument is in no way invalidated. aGPS requires PDEs. Verizon doesn't provide access to them, as they're Verizon-owned equipment and theirs to do with as they please, even to the extent of using them to generate revenue.

    I'd tell you to read up on aGPS, but I suspect it might be tough going for you . . .
    08-24-08 03:22 PM
  15. Five's Avatar
    Having trouble filling out the registration for the remedial reading comprehension course, Five? Maybe your mom can help.

    My argument is in no way invalidated. aGPS requires PDEs. Verizon doesn't provide access to them, as they're Verizon-owned equipment and theirs to do with as they please, even to the extent of using them to generate revenue.

    I'd tell you to read up on aGPS, but I suspect it might be tough going for you . . .
    Obviously, the problem here does not lie with my understanding of AGPS. In fact, my argument is not with regard to AGPS, so therefore, I have no intention of debating the issue. The problem lies in your own faulty reasoning skills. A post hoc fallacy of A leading to B is often considered the best explanation in the absence of a fully informed conclusion. It doesn't, however, result in proving any more correct.

    So, unless you are able to re-think the validity of your argument, I see no benefit in continuing to address your fruitless attempts at "one-ups-manship".

    Good day.
    08-24-08 04:28 PM
  16. reagan247's Avatar
    Quick question, slightly related... Is it possible to buy a Sprint/Alltel BB and wipe it's OS and install the VZW OS? And if so would that then unlock the GPS? Or is it an OS hardware lock in the vendor file?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    08-24-08 04:48 PM
  17. lastraid's Avatar
    Ah no. Will not work
    08-24-08 05:03 PM
  18. UncleMike's Avatar
    Verizon doesn't publish the addresses of their PDE servers, reserving them for use by VZW-developed or approved (i.e. those that contribute to VZW's revenue stream) applications. Saying that they don't charge for the use of the servers is pretty much irrelevant, since the only applications that can use them are the ones they charge for . . .
    As I understand it (and I certainly could be wrong), they wouldn't have to publish these addresses - they could include the information in the programming of the device. What I'm suggesting is that they do just that, and then limit access to these servers to customers who pay a monthly fee to use them. This way, Verizon gets their revenue, and customers get to use the apps of their choice.

    BTW, if apps like VZ Navigator have the PDE server info coded within them, wouldn't it be possible for Google (for example) to establish their own PDE servers and use those instead of Verizon's servers?
    08-24-08 10:59 PM
  19. Javaddict's Avatar
    I'm just waiting for someone to invoke Godwin's Law
    08-25-08 04:03 PM
  20. dom9360's Avatar
    The first post on this thread was to inform that VZW locks down the GPS feature on the blackberries.

    The main issue I have with this is that big corporate wants to secure their revenue cow by locking down the simply "free" feature. It also bothers me that the official argument, on behalf of VZW, although expected, states that they lock it down because they want to "maintain network quality" and "provide you (*ha*) with best possible service".

    At least Google updated their Maps mobile application to fall back to Assisted-GPS when Autonomous GPS is unavailable.

    Obviously, the problem here does not lie with my understanding of AGPS. In fact, my argument is not with regard to AGPS, so therefore, I have no intention of debating the issue. The problem lies in your own faulty reasoning skills. A post hoc fallacy of A leading to B is often considered the best explanation in the absence of a fully informed conclusion. It doesn't, however, result in proving any more correct.

    So, unless you are able to re-think the validity of your argument, I see no benefit in continuing to address your fruitless attempts at "one-ups-manship".

    Good day.
    08-25-08 07:48 PM
  21. thenoob's Avatar
    I have a Garmin GPS for navigation that I am very happy with, therefore I would never pay $10/month to use VZNav for navigation. It would however be very nice to be able to use software such as CarFinder or photo location tagging.

    In my opinion, if Verizon is so confident with their GPS software, why don't they give the consumer a choice? Just because the GPS is unlocked, doesn't mean they can't continue to sell their own software. They could even install it by default if they wish, for all I care.

    That said, it surprises me that no one has come out with some sort of "crack" to enable the GPS. Sooner or later, I just might have to take it upon myself. Perhaps this could be accomplished by reverse engineering the VZNav software's communications with the GPS device?

    I want to run run LENUX with in my Microsoft OS, but guess that is not happening any time soon either
    Clearly you've never heard of VMWare, Microsoft Virtual PC or cygwin as those are all methods of running Linux through a virtual environment on Windows. In the case of Microsoft Virtual PC, Microsoft is actually developing the software that allows you to do this.
    Last edited by thenoob; 09-02-08 at 05:54 PM.
    09-02-08 05:51 PM
  22. lastraid's Avatar
    I have a Garmin GPS for navigation that I am very happy with, therefore I would never pay $10/month to use VZNav for navigation. It would however be very nice to be able to use software such as CarFinder or photo location tagging.

    In my opinion, if Verizon is so confident with their GPS software, why don't they give the consumer a choice? Just because the GPS is unlocked, doesn't mean they can't continue to sell their own software. They could even install it by default if they wish, for all I care.

    That said, it surprises me that no one has come out with some sort of "crack" to enable the GPS. Sooner or later, I just might have to take it upon myself. Perhaps this could be accomplished by reverse engineering the VZNav software's communications with the GPS device?



    Clearly you've never heard of VMWare, Microsoft Virtual PC or cygwin as those are all methods of running Linux through a virtual environment on Windows. In the case of Microsoft Virtual PC, Microsoft is actually developing the software that allows you to do this.
    Exactly, a virutal environment, not within Windows. BTW this was used as an example to make a point. If you would have read some of the other posts you would have seen this.

    Nice make a crack. This I believe is blocked from a network level, not 100% sure, but if you crack the network, I think this federal offense and hmm, I hope you like orange jump suits, 3 squares a day, and a 300 pound guy name Gunter.
    09-02-08 06:41 PM
  23. thenoob's Avatar
    Exactly, a virutal environment, not within Windows. BTW this was used as an example to make a point. If you would have read some of the other posts you would have seen this.
    Obviously it was used to make a point, but it is a very poor comparison. Also, since the "virtual environment" is running on Windows I would say that the OS running through the virtual environment is also running on Windows. It's the whole concept of an emulator but I'll save that debate for a more relevant forum.

    Nice make a crack. This I believe is blocked from a network level, not 100% sure, but if you crack the network, I think this federal offense and hmm, I hope you like orange jump suits, 3 squares a day, and a 300 pound guy name Gunter.
    Ok.. I assumed it was just locked locally. Doesn't make sense to me that it would be on a network level, that is, theoretically (assuming you had the maps stored on the device) you shouldn't need to even be connected to the network to use the GPS.
    Last edited by thenoob; 09-02-08 at 07:01 PM.
    09-02-08 06:53 PM
  24. ILuvGadgets's Avatar

    As I stated before, if this is a feature that is that important to you, why are you with VZW if you know they disable it? there is a reason I am sure. There are also many other options to achieve GPS access.


    When I first got my 8830, the features list said that it came with GPS. I believe that I, and many others, were not aware that the feature was crippled before making the purchase.

    After realizing that is was crippled, I CHOSE to keep the phone, despite the fact that I felt I was lied to.

    I would still like them to enable/unlock the GPS feature without charging $10 for VZNav, but since they don't seem to want to do that, I'm signing the petition.
    09-05-08 12:32 PM
  25. wilsopd's Avatar
    I was in the same boat when I bought my pearl. The sales rep sold me on the new GPS enabled phone, only to find out that he meant GPS crippled phone!

    Such little bait n switch liars!

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    09-05-08 03:06 PM
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