08-28-10 10:09 PM
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  1. jeffh's Avatar
    No disrespect taken. I'm certainly not defending Verizon, but I think technology in the form of autonomous GPS has made their actions moot for the most part.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    05-05-10 09:11 AM
  2. RicanMedic78's Avatar
    i also just remembered that i have BerryWeather set to Cell Site Location (to save battery) and it updates the weather to my location fine. Isn't that using A-GPS (9630)?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    here's my thought. The app uses data as any normal app would do. But when you are searching for a weather site in GPS mode (e.g. looking for your location), it switches to the autonomous GPS for that. It will never use both together, just 1 or the other.
    05-05-10 09:15 AM
  3. Chrisy's Avatar
    Ah ok. So BeWeather is using autonomous GPS when updating (or tower location). VZ Navigator *does use AGPS which is why it works indoors but will not work when i lose signal. That makes sense. BlackBerry Maps uses GPS but not AGPS.

    Google Maps uses GPS or tower location (which is neither GPS nor AGPS). Thanks to Jeff for explaining that one.

    So how is cell tower location different than AGPS?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    05-05-10 09:20 AM
  4. travelingfool's Avatar
    To me, the nomenclature is irrelevant. With my old 8330 I was lucky if Google Maps locked me within an 1800 meter radius. Now, with the Tour, it locks me within 3 meters.

    I know it's accurate, because in Google Maps, if I start walking, it turns from a dot to an arrow and shows me walking across the map. That's pretty accurate.

    Simplistic? Yes. Effective? Yes.

    RyanMedic is confusing the issue because he jumped in debating whether or not Verizon blocks A-gps or aGPS and which one is more efficient. That's not the point of this thread. The point is that the op said that VZW blocks GPS on all BlackBerry devices, which isn't true. Older devices like the 8830 and 8330 had GPS blocked and newer devices don't. This erroneous info was promptly pointed out and corrected by Jeff, Chrisy and others.

    Regardless of what the acronym means or which method is more efficient, all I know is that my 8330 has GPS blocked for 3rd party apps only and uses triangulation, and my Tour is getting a true GPS lock.

    I think that's the bottom line.


    Edit: to Chrisy. This was not in response to your post above mine, it just happens to be right below your post



    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Last edited by travelingfool; 05-05-10 at 10:19 AM.
    05-05-10 10:12 AM
  5. Chrisy's Avatar
    No, i didn't think it was. i agree with your and Jeffs sentiment. The GPS works on my 9630 with VZW and 3rd party apps. That's really all that matters.
    05-05-10 10:23 AM
  6. RicanMedic78's Avatar
    To me, the nomenclature is irrelevant. With my old 8330 I was lucky if Google Maps locked me within an 1800 meter radius. Now, with the Tour, it locks me within 3 meters.

    I know it's accurate, because in Google Maps, if I start walking, it turns from a dot to an arrow and shows me walking across the map. That's pretty accurate.

    Simplistic? Yes. Effective? Yes.

    RyanMedic is confusing the issue because he jumped in debating whether or not Verizon blocks A-gps or aGPS and which one is more efficient. That's not the point of this thread. The point is that the op said that VZW blocks GPS on all BlackBerry devices, which isn't true. Older devices like the 8830 and 8330 had GPS blocked and newer devices don't. This erroneous info was promptly pointed out and corrected by Jeff, Chrisy and others.

    Regardless of what the acronym means or which method is more efficient, all I know is that my 8330 has GPS blocked for 3rd party apps only and uses triangulation, and my Tour is getting a true GPS lock.

    I think that's the bottom line.


    Edit: to Chrisy. This was not in response to your post above mine, it just happens to be right below your post



    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Since when does a community like "CRACKBERRY" dismiss details over a bottom line??? SMH!

    The topic was about whether GPS was blocked. Some aspects of the agps is blocked, but for the most part, its usable. However trivial, there's nothing confusing about that fact. We sit here, read, argue, and care about radio bands, specs, efficiences, battery consumption, processor speeds, screen resolution, MM differences in thickness and weight, battery doors, charging ports, trackpads, click screens, keyboard comforts, FCC, market competition, etc! And now for the purpose of GPS, you want to dismiss the details and call it me trying to confuse you? ummmm ok
    05-05-10 11:23 AM
  7. Super_Mario's Avatar
    Since when does a community like "CRACKBERRY" dismiss details over a bottom line??? SMH!

    The topic was about whether GPS was blocked. Some aspects of the agps is blocked, but for the most part, its usable. However trivial, there's nothing confusing about that fact. We sit here, read, argue, and care about radio bands, specs, efficiences, battery consumption, processor speeds, screen resolution, MM differences in thickness and weight, battery doors, charging ports, trackpads, click screens, keyboard comforts, FCC, market competition, etc! And now for the purpose of GPS, you want to dismiss the details and call it me trying to confuse you? ummmm ok
    Don't worry Jason, TravelingFool is an id10t. He "jumps in" to threads all the time just to put his 2 cents in. And he's hating on you for it? HA! He's a known hypocrite.
    05-05-10 11:43 AM
  8. RicanMedic78's Avatar
    Don't worry Jason, TravelingFool is an id10t. He "jumps in" to threads all the time just to put his 2 cents in. And he's hating on you for it? HA! He's a known hypocrite.
    I'm glad you said it and not me!

    if he ever wonders about other technical issues or differences, I'll be sure not to give him specifics and just tell him to be happy that it works! That's all that should matter!
    05-05-10 11:55 AM
  9. travelingfool's Avatar
    Since when does a community like "CRACKBERRY" dismiss details over a bottom line??? SMH!

    The topic was about whether GPS was blocked. Some aspects of the agps is blocked, but for the most part, its usable. However trivial, there's nothing confusing about that fact. We sit here, read, argue, and care about radio bands, specs, efficiences, battery consumption, processor speeds, screen resolution, MM differences in thickness and weight, battery doors, charging ports, trackpads, click screens, keyboard comforts, FCC, market competition, etc! And now for the purpose of GPS, you want to dismiss the details and call it me trying to confuse you? ummmm ok
    You weren't confusing me, you were confusing the issue by conflating separate topics, which can be confusing to the casual reader. There's a difference. I'd love to read a thread about the finer points of various types of GPS, how it works and which one was most efficient and effective in a mobile device; in a thread that was about the finer points of various types of GPS, how it works and which one was most efficient and effective in a mobile device.

    I guess my main point in posting that was so that a non-VZW customer who was considering switching carriers could get the straight scoop without having to decipher all the rhetoric. The straight scoop being that VZW no longer blocks GPS.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    05-05-10 11:56 AM
  10. RicanMedic78's Avatar
    I guess my main point in posting that was so that a non-VZW customer who was considering switching carriers could get the straight scoop without having to decipher all the rhetoric. The straight scoop being that VZW no longer blocks GPS.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    and that my friend is false! lol... ahhh and the circle continues

    but hey, lets not get all boggled up with the details.. To complicated for these simple minded CB folks and he wants to make sure the average user reads the absolute positive without those horrifically boring details! IT WORKS!!!
    Last edited by RicanMedic78; 05-05-10 at 12:13 PM.
    05-05-10 12:06 PM
  11. travelingfool's Avatar
    Wow. Well, I sure wasn't doing any hating, and you, supermario, are the who continually jumps into threads ripping on people for no reason. You have been a thorn in my side for a long time, and honestly, I'm shocked that you haven't been banned long ago for the hateful vitriol that you continually spew. I'm always seeing you jump on people with personal attacks.

    I generally ignore you. This is an exception. I won't be addressing you again.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    05-05-10 12:07 PM
  12. Super_Mario's Avatar
    I generally ignore you. This is an exception. I won't be addressing you again.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    promises, promises...
    05-05-10 12:16 PM
  13. RicanMedic78's Avatar
    Wow. Well, I sure wasn't doing any hating, and you, supermario, are the who continually jumps into threads ripping on people for no reason. You have been a thorn in my side for a long time, and honestly, I'm shocked that you haven't been banned long ago for the hateful vitriol that you continually spew. I'm always seeing you jump on people with personal attacks.

    I generally ignore you. This is an exception. I won't be addressing you again.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    I'm not doing any hating either. Shoot, I even called you "my friend!" ugh!

    But on a serious note, I don't control what anyone else says. And I have yet to rip a single person over this thread. But I'm a thorn on your side for a long time now and I have absolutely no idea who you even are.... So with that said, I'm sorry you feel that way over a simple topic of mobile phones and the technicality of GPS functions! What that being said.... I say good day!

    I love that show! lol
    05-05-10 12:21 PM
  14. Chrisy's Avatar
    Mean boys!

    In any case i learned a few things about GPS and A-GPS that ii didn't know. i like to know the technical details. It's good to know.

    Still am happy with VZW GPS in the end though. The 8330 GPS lockout did annoy me a bit. i still use VZ Navigator the most out of all my GPS apps.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    05-05-10 12:23 PM
  15. travelingfool's Avatar
    I'm not doing any hating either. Shoot, I even called you "my friend!" ugh!

    But on a serious note, I don't control what anyone else says. And I have yet to rip a single person over this thread. But I'm a thorn on your side for a long time now and I have absolutely no idea who you even are.... So with that said, I'm sorry you feel that way over a simple topic of mobile phones and the technicality of GPS functions! What that being said.... I say good day!

    I love that show! lol
    Lol. Dude! That entire post was directed at supermario, not you. I don't have a problem with you either

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    05-05-10 12:25 PM
  16. RicanMedic78's Avatar
    Lol. Dude! That entire post was directed at supermario, not you. I don't have a problem with you either

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    ummmmm.... oops?
    05-05-10 12:28 PM
  17. jeffh's Avatar
    I'm not going to Mod this thread since I'm posting in it, but another Mod will if the discussion continues to deteriorate into personal attacks.

    The bottom line for someone who knows nothing about BlackBerry devices and Verizon's GPS history and is about to buy a new Verizon Storm or Tour or later phone is that the internal GPS will work with 3rd party apps such as Google Maps and Garmin Mobile. It won't work in Assisted GPS mode, but that it works will likely be all the new user expects.

    If that same new user is about to buy a new or used Verizon 8330 or 8830, they will likely be disappointed to find the GPS only works with Bing, BBMaps, VZNav, and Verizon's social app. (If somebody has found another app that works, please let me know.)
    05-05-10 12:30 PM
  18. RicanMedic78's Avatar
    Mean boys!

    In any case i learned a few things about GPS and A-GPS that ii didn't know. i like to know the technical details. It's good to know.

    Still am happy with VZW GPS in the end though. The 8330 GPS lockout did annoy me a bit. i still use VZ Navigator the most out of all my GPS apps.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Yea, I was downright mad when it was a total lock out on the 8330. Now not so much. As I said many times, its trivial at best but I cant help but want to correct across the board statements.

    Verizon may just be worried about privacy issues regarding 3rd party apps and it might be as innocent as that. At the end of the day, we don't know. But hey, knowledge is power and when something don't work right down the road, details help you understand why that is...
    05-05-10 12:32 PM
  19. travelingfool's Avatar
    ummmmm.... oops?
    Lol, no problem my friend. Supermario has a proven history of jumping into a conversation with personal attacks and name calling. That's the only reason I even acknowledged his existence and spoke up.

    Anyway, back to GPS

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    05-05-10 12:34 PM
  20. travelingfool's Avatar
    Woops, I just saw your post Jeff. I'll quit my end of it


    Edit: Sorry, but one more statement is in order. supermario's post directly below this is a flat out lie.


    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Last edited by travelingfool; 05-05-10 at 12:54 PM.
    05-05-10 12:36 PM
  21. Super_Mario's Avatar
    has a proven history of jumping into a conversation with personal attacks and name calling.
    Oh look we have something in common!
    05-05-10 12:36 PM
  22. Chrisy's Avatar
    So, what is the difference between A-GPS and cell tower location. i'm still not clear.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    05-05-10 12:38 PM
  23. RicanMedic78's Avatar
    So, what is the difference between A-GPS and cell tower location. i'm still not clear.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    cell tower location is an added part of GPS triangulation. But when an app uses data to get information, it uses information in internet form only, nothing to do with the GPS itself. AGPS uses real time tracking of the phone using the GPS itself along with at least 3 towers in your area. Hense why you can use your VZ nav while in a tunnel. And also why google maps can locate you within 3 meters outside, but once your indoors, the accuracy varies

    on an upside, I think if you use garmin mobile for example, you will be using the autonomous GPS which means that you can use your phone at the same time while in nav mode. But with AGPS and VZ nav, once you pick up your phone, the app will error out at the next turn because the cell tower is required for triangulation. And considering that the CDMA radio cant do data&voice together, you get your error
    Last edited by RicanMedic78; 05-05-10 at 12:48 PM.
    05-05-10 12:39 PM
  24. Chrisy's Avatar
    So, using one tower for location is cell tower location and using 3 towers is GPS triangular (A-GPS)?

    EDIT: you added more to your post explaining. Thanks!

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    05-05-10 12:42 PM
  25. RicanMedic78's Avatar
    3 towers is triangulation. 1 tower cannot help on its own to pinpoint your exact location so the combination of 3 mathematically will estimate your location which aids the GPS itself... and that itself is called assisted GPS. The problem with VZ nav is that its triangulation dependent so without data, it will not work.

    Testing it out, I've noticed that when the app calulates the turn, it uses cell sites to triangulate the next turn, but once its done, the GPS guides it. So for example, if I'm headed on a highway that is a 20 mile stretch, I can use my phone because its all GPS. But once the next turn comes up, BAM.... error! Try it
    Last edited by RicanMedic78; 05-05-10 at 12:54 PM.
    05-05-10 12:52 PM
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