09-30-09 10:36 AM
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  1. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    No, no, no. Used car salesmen & telemarketers are FAR more ethical than attorneys or politicians.

    That poll, therefore, is flawed.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    02-26-09 08:57 AM
  2. priv8investig8r's Avatar
    Then you are contributing to why less than 1 out of 5 people think lawyers are very ethical.
    There is no logic to this statement at all. What does ethics have to do with the simple legal interpretation of a contract?

    Your distaste for lawyers is equally irrelevant. Lots of people hate lawyers, until they need one.

    In any case, once you turn it into an ad hominem attack, the debate is over.

    Carry on your crusade.
    02-26-09 09:11 AM
  3. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    Lots of people hate lawyers, until they need one.
    Not quite. At my age, I need a proctologist. This does not mean I like him.

    His front office staff makes it better. If only I were younger...

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    02-26-09 10:58 AM
  4. pkcable's Avatar
    Not quite. At my age, I need a proctologist. This does not mean I like him.

    His front office staff makes it better. If only I were younger...

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    And most likely a urologist too, least I know I do.
    02-26-09 12:31 PM
  5. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    Oh yes, that too.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    02-26-09 02:43 PM
  6. Mark_Venture's Avatar
    How could you honestly make any argument that they are not referring to this exact situation?
    Very easily.
    Please do expand as I'd like to better understand HOW/WHY you feel this is ok...

    While I'm not a lawyer, and I've stayed away from Crackberry until recently.. I've been active with RIM Products starting with the clambshell Rim 900 Inter@ctive Pager (back around '97), and have been into cell phones and hacking for some time now..

    To me, as a techie non-lawyer type person, its clear VZW's intent in their wording is clearly meant to prohibit the sharing of the device's wirelss data services with your PC, Laptop or other device unless you subscribe to their BBA service.

    This same wording is also used in their Vcast Vpack terms for feature/dumb phones.

    We've seen (over on Hofo) people get billed hundreds, even thousands, of dollars for sharing their device's data capabilites with their computer and not subscribing to VZW's BBA. (examples in this thread -> HowardForums: Your Mobile Phone Community & Resource - EVDO Tethering (Discuss in this Thread Only!) and -> HowardForums: Your Mobile Phone Community & Resource - All things tethering (Keep all discussion here) )

    So I don't see how this is any different.

    Also, I'm curious.. As a Lawyer, what type of law is your practice or speciality? If not contracts, would a contract atterny see this any differntly?
    03-01-09 03:11 PM
  7. YourMobileGuru's Avatar
    Well put, Mark, welcome to Crackberry!

    Tim (sovak75 on HoFo)
    03-01-09 03:35 PM
  8. Mark_Venture's Avatar
    03-02-09 01:27 AM
  9. ok4a56's Avatar
    What do you need from VZW to teather, other than the teathering package on your account.
    03-02-09 06:11 AM
  10. Mark_Venture's Avatar
    What do you need from VZW to teather, other than the teathering package on your account.
    You need to subscribe to their Broadband access plan, have a USB cable (they don't support tethering via Bluetooth, probably because of all the possible BT stacks on PC's). They recommend you use their software, but you can often times get by without if you know how to setup a normal "Dial up networking" icon.

    If you have a blackberry you'll need BB Desktop Manager.
    03-02-09 10:59 AM
  11. YourMobileGuru's Avatar
    I'll also note that the USB cable and VZAccess Manager software you need to tether is included in the box of all VZW BB's.
    03-03-09 12:00 AM
  12. ok4a56's Avatar
    Do I use the same USB cord as I use to back up my BB to DM? I don't think I have the disk anymore so I will have to go up to the store and get another one.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    03-03-09 06:46 AM
  13. Mark_Venture's Avatar
    Do I use the same USB cord as I use to back up my BB to DM? I don't think I have the disk anymore so I will have to go up to the store and get another one.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Yes, you use the same cord.

    No need for the CD... The VZW Access Manager software is available for download.. see -> VZAccess Manager
    03-03-09 07:50 AM
  14. pkcable's Avatar
    Do I use the same USB cord as I use to back up my BB to DM? I don't think I have the disk anymore so I will have to go up to the store and get another one.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Yea same cord, you can get the drivers and AM software at the VZW AM site

    VZAccess Manager
    03-03-09 07:53 AM
  15. gotblackberry's Avatar
    Um, no.

    You might want to go to law school and pass the bar before you dole out legal advice.

    First, there is a difference between the criminal act of theft (or "stealing" as you call it), and the civil wrong of breach of contract. Having said that, using this program (in my opinion as an attorney) is absolutely not a "crime" and is not even likely to amount to a breach of contract.

    Second, the phrase, "...or (2) for any applications that tether your device to laptops or personal computers..." that you rely upon is (1) extremely vague and (2) widely open to interpretation.

    Third, a basic principle of contract law (which you would know if you were an attorney) is that its terms are construed against the drafter of the contract, namely Verizon. Thus, any ambiguities or uncertainties that might exist, (which is the case here) will be resolved against them. Meaning they will lose.

    Fourth, whether using this software is "illegal" is not decided by you regardless of how many times you attempt to profess to be the ultimate authority on contract law. Ultimately it would be up to a court of law, if it ever got that far, which it most certainly would not.

    Of course, everyone, including you, is entitled to their own "opinion," regardless of (in)accuracy. But remember, you're a Verizon Rep, not a Verizon attorney.

    DISCLAIMER: Yes, I am a licensed attorney, but nothing in this post is intended to be legal advice.

    What kind of law do you practice? I'm not sure of the similar federal law but yes it is a crime to steal services you have not subscribed to.

    RCW 9A.56.262: Theft of telecommunication services.

    (1) A person is guilty of theft of telecommunication services if he or she knowingly and with intent to avoid payment:

    (a) Uses a telecommunication device to obtain telecommunication services without having entered into a prior agreement with a telecommunication service provider to pay for the telecommunication services; or

    (b) Possesses a telecommunication device.

    (2) Theft of telecommunication services is a class C felony.
    Seems like theft to me, but what do I know, I'm just a VZW Rep.
    03-03-09 02:52 PM
  16. gotblackberry's Avatar
    No response?
    03-04-09 02:09 PM
  17. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    No response?
    Somehow I really don't think you honestly expected one, did you?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    03-04-09 03:06 PM
  18. gotblackberry's Avatar
    I wanted a response from our licensed attorney who said it wasn't a crime . I mean I'm not a licensed attorney (yet) but I remember learning in my first year of Criminal Law that you can steal services...maybe he missed that day.
    Last edited by Weekendbum; 03-04-09 at 04:06 PM.
    03-04-09 03:46 PM
  19. jbinbi's Avatar
    Mobishark, and the new tetherberry application allow you physically tether (connect) your phone to your computer and get an internet connection on your computer via the phone's internet.

    This violates vzw TOS, explained back on page 1 of the post.

    Same situation applies for pdanet program on winmo or palm devices.

    If you were to use 5GB of data per month using these programs, I am pretty sure vzw would notice.

    If you check your email 5x a day for the 3 days of the month you might travel, maybe using 1MB or 1/5000 of the capacity, I am pretty sure they would have no idea you are doing this. It still violates the TOS.

    So yes you can physically tether without paying the $30 by using one of these programs. But it violation of the contract you agreed to (attorneys, did I say this correctly?)
    03-04-09 06:40 PM
  20. ok4a56's Avatar
    thanks all for your help. Got it all hooked up today, and the CSR even gave me the 1st 30 days free.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    03-04-09 06:47 PM
  21. Hubb's Avatar
    I have the tethering account. question is, can I have this set up on multiple computers? do I use "network connections" in Control Panel or do I have to have the Access Manager disk for each computer?

    if I was to say, visit my parents could I just plug in and get online?
    03-04-09 06:57 PM
  22. eissacdn31rf's Avatar
    Um, no.

    You might want to go to law school and pass the bar before you dole out legal advice.

    First, there is a difference between the criminal act of theft (or "stealing" as you call it), and the civil wrong of breach of contract. Having said that, using this program (in my opinion as an attorney) is absolutely not a "crime" and is not even likely to amount to a breach of contract.[/B]






    ......owned
    03-04-09 07:42 PM
  23. eissacdn31rf's Avatar
    I have the tethering account. question is, can I have this set up on multiple computers? do I use "network connections" in Control Panel or do I have to have the Access Manager disk for each computer?

    if I was to say, visit my parents could I just plug in and get online?

    You can technically create a Manual Dial Up Connection through controll panel, IF you know all the information:
    connection name: VZW
    phone number: #777
    username: 10digitmdn(at)vzw3g.com
    password: vzw


    edit: you need bbdm installed for drivers sake.

    otherwise, if you don't know how to set up a dialup network..
    stick to installing vzam on every computer.


    wth@ not being able to post an email address.
    Last edited by eissacdn31rf; 03-04-09 at 08:00 PM.
    03-04-09 07:44 PM
  24. gotblackberry's Avatar
    Who got owned?
    03-04-09 07:58 PM
  25. ok4a56's Avatar
    I see on My Verizon it lumps my teathering data and BB data as one total. Is their a way for me to tell how much of that data is from teathering, and how much is from the BB. Also if I hit my 5GB limit teathering will I get some sort of warning, or will I just being charged for it? Is it hard to hit 5GB teathering with not streaming music or video? Just 3 or 4 hours of Internet surfing 3 or 4 days a week is what I should be using it for.
    03-04-09 10:38 PM
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