08-04-09 06:40 PM
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  1. lennyj17's Avatar
    TwinX - Man you Lie.....lol

    1st - Verizon does lock out roaming, if ur in an area where Sprint is the only other CDMA provider, chances are Verizon will not Roam should Verizon have an Outage, so ur phone will read "NO SERVICE" until the problem is fixed. So to say Verizon has free roaming is a Fallacy to a point...it's free restricted Roaming.

    2nd - GPS is still locked on the BB Curve w/Vzw, they have not unlocked it full. And you damn well know this.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    08-04-09 07:03 AM
  2. RicanMedic78's Avatar
    agps is also locked on the storm and the tour for some odd reason still...
    08-04-09 08:39 AM
  3. Jim from NW Pa's Avatar
    Uh... The curve doesn't have a standalone GPS......0which explains why its not unlocked

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    08-04-09 08:56 AM
  4. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    TwinX - Man you Lie.....lol
    No, you twist words.

    1st - Verizon does lock out roaming, if ur in an area where Sprint is the only other CDMA provider, chances are Verizon will not Roam should Verizon have an Outage, so ur phone will read "NO SERVICE" until the problem is fixed. So to say Verizon has free roaming is a Fallacy to a point...it's free restricted Roaming.
    You're referring to Home Roaming, something no large carrier offers. If you're in your home area, why would you want to be constantly switching carriers & having some carrier-based services pop in & out of service? If you're outside of your home area, it would be different. But for me to be at home & be on another carrier would be silly. The technology of cell phones does not allow for simple home roaming cutover without also causing carrier switches when all else works.

    Ask the AT&T customer driving the perimeter of Los Angeles metro area what happens to their service while they are driving in an area of weak AT&T coverage, but strong T-Mobile - oops, no service!

    2nd - GPS is still locked on the BB Curve w/Vzw, they have not unlocked it full. And you damn well know this.
    Interesting, but the facts do not bear this out either. VZW does not allow carte blanche access to just any software. The software submits to testing, gets approved and it works. If it doesn't get approved - and unsubmitted software cannot be approved - no functionality.

    It is what RM alludes to above. aGPS requires network interoperability with the software. Get that okay & there is no problem running it on even an 8830WE.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    08-04-09 09:04 AM
  5. RicanMedic78's Avatar
    No, you twist words.
    isnt it always that way when ppl don't agree with u?


    Interesting, but the facts do not bear this out either. VZW does not allow carte blanche access to just any software. The software submits to testing, gets approved and it works. If it doesn't get approved - and unsubmitted software cannot be approved - no functionality.

    It is what RM alludes to above. aGPS requires network interoperability with the software. Get that okay & there is no problem running it on even an 8830WE.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    so I guess the 1000s of other blackberry apps out there that dont require GPS dont need to meet this "heavy" requirement?
    08-04-09 09:12 AM
  6. Jim from NW Pa's Avatar
    OH MY GOD!!

    Ricanmedic is posting about something other than wifi!!

    Now back to your regularly scheduled post

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    08-04-09 09:18 AM
  7. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    isnt it always that way when ppl don't agree with u?
    It is when they claim I lied about something, then portray something I never said.

    And those "thousands of other apps" (this is BlackBerry, not iPhone or WinMo - it is hundreds, or even dozens, if you count usability) don't require network interoperability. But you knew that.

    Hey Jim - he was our GPS guy before he was our WiFi guy.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    08-04-09 10:24 AM
  8. jackmei2's Avatar
    Is Verizon more expensive than Sprint? Sure it is. But I'd bet many on those unlimited plans don't need them and I'd also bet that Verizon's heavily 800mhz network is disrupted by buildings and terrain a whole lot less than Sprint's 1.9ghz network is. Let's face it. Sprint's 1.9ghz is PCS, which was seen years ago as a low-cost local solution. Sprint has tried to make it a national solution, with some success, but their network is stung tighter than a fiddle string. And we know fiddle strings break from time to time.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    thanks for the response DesertDogs! my whole concern is about the signal and whether or not I would get a better signal indoors. my signal is cut in half whenever I walk indoors but outside everything is fine. so I hope things are better with vzw!
    08-04-09 10:38 AM
  9. Jim from NW Pa's Avatar
    thanks for the response DesertDogs! my whole concern is about the signal and whether or not I would get a better signal indoors. my signal is cut in half whenever I walk indoors but outside everything is fine. so I hope things are better with vzw!
    As dogs explained..... You should.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    08-04-09 11:24 AM
  10. drod2169's Avatar
    everyone who wrote back, thanks for your responses! Especially to DesertDogs, but all in all, thanks to everyone for putting their in puts.

    So the GPS is locked on the Tour? Like would I be able to use other GPS programs, even if its BB's Maps, because I don't want to spend the extra $10 a month for VZW Navi. Thanks!
    08-04-09 11:25 AM
  11. Jim from NW Pa's Avatar
    GPS is not locked. Ie you can use google maps, poynt, etc.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    08-04-09 11:27 AM
  12. Jim from NW Pa's Avatar
    You can use berry maps on all vzw berries after the 4.5 update I believe it was. Even my pearl

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    08-04-09 11:28 AM
  13. blue_and_bold's Avatar
    My gf uses googlemaps on her pearl as well same options turn gps on
    08-04-09 11:42 AM
  14. RicanMedic78's Avatar
    It is when they claim I lied about something, then portray something I never said.

    And those "thousands of other apps" (this is BlackBerry, not iPhone or WinMo - it is hundreds, or even dozens, if you count usability) don't require network interoperability. But you knew that.

    Hey Jim - he was our GPS guy before he was our WiFi guy.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    well, cant argue there... ur a stubborn mule but I dont know you well enough to call you a liar.

    and thats right, it all started with GPS. Glad you remember that far back

    As for network interoperability, 3rd party apps absolutely require interoperability with the network! Many apps actually use much much kb more than any 3rd party GPS app would
    08-04-09 11:45 AM
  15. RicanMedic78's Avatar
    GPS is not locked. Ie you can use google maps, poynt, etc.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    autonomous GPS is not locked so 3rd party apps are in essence, functional. But they are not as efficiant as with (or coupled with) aGPS which sprint and all other carriers have "unlocked."

    VZ still continues to lock it down for use only with VZ Nav and BB Maps
    Last edited by RicanMedic78; 08-04-09 at 11:53 AM.
    08-04-09 11:50 AM
  16. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    Do you have any idea how LTE will interact with aGPS and if that will force all carriers, including AT&T, to act in ways they previously didn't?

    Hmmmm?

    The phones are unlocked - the network will not allow interoperability. Same basic result, but the truth allows rational thinkers to comprehend the reasoning behind it.

    Where I am at, we have professionals, using VZW phones & paying VZW bills - their supposedly locked phones now work and now access the aGPS? Yet when we return to the VZW network, no more.

    Get over it. Your phone is not locked - the apps are not allowed. Think about it this way - is your BlackBerry locked down, keeping you from running iPhone or WinMo apps? No, those are incompatible with your operating system. GPS apps, while something you may want, are incompatible with the network operating system.

    As I said before, same result - you can't run Google Craps, err, Maps, on your Curve - but it is Verizon's network security policy and not anything they do to your phone. There is a difference between yours and theirs.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    08-04-09 12:38 PM
  17. RicanMedic78's Avatar
    Do you have any idea how LTE will interact with aGPS and if that will force all carriers, including AT&T, to act in ways they previously didn't?

    Hmmmm?
    What does this have anything to do with 3g EVDO as it is today???

    The phones are unlocked - the network will not allow interoperability. Same basic result, but the truth allows rational thinkers to comprehend the reasoning behind it.
    I don't understand what you're saying here... The phones are unlocked?? We know the network doesn't allow interoperability with 3rd party GPS apps. Its also intentionally done by VZ. Whats your point?

    Where I am at, we have professionals, using VZW phones & paying VZW bills - their supposedly locked phones now work and now access the aGPS? Yet when we return to the VZW network, no more.
    Again, don't understand your point

    Get over it. Your phone is not locked - the apps are not allowed. Think about it this way - is your BlackBerry locked down, keeping you from running iPhone or WinMo apps? No, those are incompatible with your operating system. GPS apps, while something you may want, are incompatible with the network operating system.
    incompatable? Now I know that you very well know that compatibility is not the issue at all. If it was as you mention here, then how the heck did blackberry maps just become usable on "the network" with an update? A block is simple, no need to make it sound complicated! Verizon blocks 3rd part access using aGPS! Its that simple!

    As I said before, same result - you can't run Google Craps, err, Maps, on your Curve - but it is Verizon's network security policy and not anything they do to your phone. There is a difference between yours and theirs.
    And if we were arguing what IS the policy, then you are 100% right. BUT... big BUT... that also means that aGPS is locked out and that is the issue I wanted to point out from the start. So even though the autonomous GPS is functional, its not as efficiant as the competition (sprint) who has it 100% unlocked

    Any case of interoperability is false and I know you are savy enough to know that this is the case.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Last edited by RicanMedic78; 08-04-09 at 01:12 PM.
    08-04-09 01:09 PM
  18. RicanMedic78's Avatar
    WAIT!!!

    I hope I didn't "twist" your words!
    08-04-09 01:13 PM
  19. Jim from NW Pa's Avatar
    Want GPS? Buy a tomtom

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    08-04-09 01:35 PM
  20. sprke81's Avatar
    I really don't know what the fuss is about. VZ bbs have gps and are getting wifi. What more do you want?

    If people want to talk about being locked down go get a iphone and deal with things like google voice being blocked.
    08-04-09 01:40 PM
  21. RicanMedic78's Avatar
    actually i'm somewhat content with the GPS, however, we miss the point as CB enthusiest that we should know what does and does not work on our phones. One thing twins is correct about is that wifi still does not exist despite the news by RIM. 2nd, aGPS is locked on the Tour. So as it stands right now, we dont have it all on our phones. And in a thing called competition, its our responsibility to make sure we point that out and then decide accordingly
    08-04-09 04:50 PM
  22. sprke81's Avatar
    What apps do not work with agps locked out?

    I have used multiple navigation apps on my Tour and previously the Storm and they all worked perfect. I can get a lock with google maps in about 5 seconds. The latest bbs are not affected at all by agps being restricted and I say big deal about not getting a gps lock 2 seconds faster.
    08-04-09 06:33 PM
  23. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    WAIT!!!

    I hope I didn't "twist" your words!
    No - I was referring to the guy above you.

    You know better than that - if I have a problem with you, you know it.

    What does this have anything to do with 3g EVDO as it is today???
    Not a lot, but CDMA is going away & you don't know yet what kinds of restrictions LTE will have. I know many of them, but am not (yet) at liberty to share.

    I don't understand what you're saying here... The phones are unlocked?? We know the network doesn't allow interoperability with 3rd party GPS apps. Its also intentionally done by VZ. Whats your point?
    Yes, it is intentional on VZW's part - they want privacy & security on their network. So they don't allow untested devices on their network and they don't allow software that requires network interaction to access their information without first passing tests & agreeing not to use VZW customer information in a manner incongruous with VZW policy. If the software provider doesn't want to play ball, you don't see them in the game.

    Again, don't understand your point
    It is simple - if the phone was locked, as so many like to claim, why does Google Maps & such work outside of the network when there have been no software/hardware changes? We are in Canada & the supposedly "locked" phones are suddenly unlocked. If VZW locked the phones, then the apps wouldn't work here, there or anywhere. But they do work - but again, not in all areas, as not all areas/networks in Canada are aGPS compatible.

    An odd thing is, we have a couple of AT&T Curves along for the ride - their aGPS works in most areas of the lower 48, but getting them to work up here is more miss than hit. I didn't think we'd see the holes in aGPS compatibility on GSM, but they are there.

    Did AT&T lock those Curves up here?

    I realize we're saying much the same thing - it is really a semantics issue - but telling people a carrier has locked down your phone is a far cry from not allowing a program access to the network.

    This is something I said above & have said many times throughout these pages.


    incompatable? Now I know that you very well know that compatibility is not the issue at all. If it was as you mention here, then how the heck did blackberry maps just become usable on "the network" with an update? A block is simple, no need to make it sound complicated! Verizon blocks 3rd part access using aGPS! Its that simple!
    Yes, they do - because they choose to protect their network & our privacy, they require a process where the app is tested & agreements signed to not use info gathered for their own purposes. We know this is how Google makes their money. But VZW doesn't even allow data aggregation for advertising - a good thing, considering how BlackBerry is proxied - do I really want your data influencing the ads served to me? But Google has steadfastly resisted any attempts to keep them from collecting & using your information, while other packages, like Garmin & Mapquest use standalone GPS, which Curves & such do not have. Other versions of Garmin & MQ can use aGPS only, but they have chosen to not get their software certified - they don't see a competitive need.

    So yes - it is a compatibility issue - some software requires capabilities your phone doesn't have and other software requires access the network will not allow.

    Look at it this way - if I lived next door to you and my car broke down. I asked you to borrow yours & you give me the okay, since you know I am a good guy & we've been neighbors for years. Is it okay for me to hotrod your car, drive it over curbs & use it to rob a bank? Of course not. You let me use it with the understanding that I use it, am careful & return it in at least the condition it was in when you lent it to me, if not better. I also will not cause you any harm to your reputation or your possessions. Google's business model requires that in exchange for free software, they get to use all the data inwhatever way they see fit. They want to run roughshod over everything so they can profit. They want to hotrod that data, run it over curbs & take it all to the bank.

    Since you don't have a standalone GPS capability, Google & other free options business model requires access that is incompatible with the VZW network policies.

    And if we were arguing what IS the policy, then you are 100% right. BUT... big BUT... that also means that aGPS is locked out and that is the issue I wanted to point out from the start. So even though the autonomous GPS is functional, its not as efficiant as the competition (sprint) who has it 100% unlocked.
    And who says Sprint's privacy policies are as stringent? There is a reason VZW has a huge number of government contracts, while Sprint has very few.

    Any case of interoperability is false and I know you are savy enough to know that this is the case.
    We weren't talking about network interoperability. While VZW has talked about it, and promises to implement some with LTE, it isn't here yet.

    In the end, as I said before, I am not arguing that these things work - I agree they don't work. All I am trying to cover is why they don't work.

    And, for those who make it seem like it is a make or break issue, RM did mention competition - just remember that there are tradeoffs with each. You might gain a cheap GPS solution, but give up phone use in an area you frequent. Or connections might be slow/spotty. Or they use a web-based workaround for something as basic as MMS. Or...

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    08-04-09 06:40 PM
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