12-01-09 05:10 PM
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  1. lastraid's Avatar
    Waiting can be so stressful - did they tell you to save your accessories? Battery etc? If no ands you get everything in the box, it will be new. Very rarely in my exp, in the first 30 days of a device is a refurb sent
    08-08-09 12:40 PM
  2. he11fire's Avatar
    Is there any way to tell if I'm getting a new one or a refurbed? The tech at the store ordered me one via replacement. I asked if it would be new or refurbed, and he said "It should be new because we don't have any refurbished ones yet."

    I have the receipt on me. Anything I can look for on there to give me clues as to what I'm getting?
    With most phones they put a "Refurbished" or "Reconditioned" sticker under the battery. Not sure about Blackberries specifically.

    And about the reps not knowing the deal with the issues; When you surf CrackBerry you'd think that EVERY Tour had the trackball or loose battery door. Just like you'd think ALL Storms have the click problem and bad software. However, some of us with Tours and Storms know this to not be the case.

    Fact is, nobody is going to start a thread because their phone is working the way it's supposed to. At least not nearly as many as the people who are having issues with theirs.
    08-08-09 12:48 PM
  3. cereal killer's Avatar
    I just exchanged my tour at my local Verizon store last night, and she mentioned that she's never heard of the Tour trackball problems until she saw mine. Seemed odd to me with all the complaints I've been reading here.
    there is no widespread problem with the trackball. There is so much misinformation on this issue that it has gotten out of hand.

    People are returning perfectly functioning devices because of what they read on these forums ( the trackball test ) then they go onto to exchange it and get another "bad" one. Its pretty obvious that a lot of these users haven't got a clue.

    Good information gets passed over while the bad info spreads as truth so the cycle will continue.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    08-08-09 12:51 PM
  4. IDsweetcheeks's Avatar
    ahhh. whoever said that was dumb. Theres a chance you'd get a new one... but any phone returned for any reason would be a "referb" because it cannot be sold as new. Once its activated even for a day its used.
    You will have a 50/50 chance of getting CLNR or new...
    most likely getting a CLNR...
    08-08-09 12:59 PM
  5. slinky317's Avatar
    there is no widespread problem with the trackball. There is so much misinformation on this issue that it has gotten out of hand.

    People are returning perfectly functioning devices because of what they read on these forums ( the trackball test ) then they go onto to exchange it and get another "bad" one. Its pretty obvious that a lot of these users haven't got a clue.

    Good information gets passed over while the bad info spreads as truth so the cycle will continue.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Simply because you are not having a problem with the trackball doesn't mean there's not a widespread problem. I've had two phones that had issues scrolling to the right, and I didn't even bother doing the number-test thing. In the store I went to, they had two Tours on display - one was perfect, the other had issues with the trackball. Even the rep could tell the difference.

    most likely getting a CLNR...
    What's a CLNR?
    08-08-09 01:06 PM
  6. cereal killer's Avatar
    I've had two phones that had issues scrolling to the right, and I didn't even bother doing the number-test thing.
    You're going on your 3rd device. Its time to put 2 and 2 together....You clearly don't know how to operate the trackball.

    Before you say it.....no I'll let you say it : )
    08-08-09 02:15 PM
  7. blue_and_bold's Avatar
    Is it possible that 3 phones have the same issue? YES.
    If it was more than 3 I would say user error but 3 is possible.
    08-08-09 02:43 PM
  8. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    Actually, the trackball is a very bad design. Replacements are the same bad design.

    Now, here is the problem. If your trackball actually rolls while you have this issue, it isn't the trackball. This is the description that fits the majority of Tour trackball problems and is a problem documented with the design six months ago. It is not a quick fix, nor will it be fixed without a redesign. We're talking the substructure here - not a popout & replace item.

    If your trackball sticks, like what we've seen for a long time on Curve/Bold/8830/Pearl, it is dirt/debris in the trackball. Again, poor design & concept, but it is fixable with trackball replacement until the next speck of dust, pocket lint, grit, etc., all stuck together with grease, skin oil and/or fabric softener residue attacks your new trackball.

    I don't know what mentally deficient individual thought taking a cheap & troubleprone desktop computer mouse technology for a mobile phone would be a good idea, but they shouldn't be fired - they should be hung. Buy the cheapo Brand X computer mouse & it has a roller ball. Get the quality mouse & it is optical. You guys think you bought a quality item? Think again, because it is poorly engineered crap.

    You can replace, replace & replace again. It will not go away until a new hardware design is trotted out. What? Yours works well? Just wait - odds are it will fail on you. Might be three days, three months or spring 2010 - it will probably cripple your phone, so be prepared.

    It is like a slice of bread - it will someday get hard or moldy. When is the question. And no matter what you do with that slice, it will never taste like ribeye, because it wasn't designed to taste like steak.
    Last edited by TwinsX2Dad; 08-08-09 at 03:11 PM.
    08-08-09 03:03 PM
  9. slinky317's Avatar
    You're going on your 3rd device. Its time to put 2 and 2 together....You clearly don't know how to operate the trackball.

    Before you say it.....no I'll let you say it : )
    Don't know how to operate the trackball? Really? It's not rocket science. You spin right, it moves right. You spin left, it moves left. My first phone I thought might have been a software issue, because rolling the trackball right did not work nearly as smoothly as rolling left. I went into a VZW store and theirs worked perfect. I went to another store, and they had one that worked perfect and one that didn't roll right. So I didn't understand that if it was a software issue then why wouldn't ALL Tours be having this issue. Also, people have said that you need to "feather" your trackball to make it work right. If this was a software issue, why would it matter how much pressure you're putting on the trackball? Brickbreaker was actually the best test - playing it showed how unresponsive the trackball could be. Seeing that people on the forums had this issue and that the Tour in the Verizon store worked perfectly, I swapped out my phone.

    For my second phone, I could physically feel the trackball not make contact with the roller while spinning to the right. This was also straight out of the box. Literally the first time I used it I felt it. Now, sometimes the phone doesn't even register when I click. I have to press down HARD for it to recognize a click.

    Yes, I am on my third phone. But just one look at all the threads created in the Tour forum shows that a lot of people are having this issue, even before the status test screen was even mentioned. Furthermore, this was brought up by a reviewer when he reviewed the phone. Are you saying he doesn't know how to correctly operate a trackball either?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Last edited by slinky317; 08-08-09 at 04:51 PM.
    08-08-09 04:19 PM
  10. slinky317's Avatar
    Now, here is the problem. If your trackball actually rolls while you have this issue, it isn't the trackball. This is the description that fits the majority of Tour trackball problems and is a problem documented with the design six months ago. It is not a quick fix, nor will it be fixed without a redesign. We're talking the substructure here - not a popout & replace item.
    So, RIM knows about the problem? Is there any hope for a fix? Is it just the Tour or are other phones affected?
    08-08-09 04:27 PM
  11. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    So, RIM knows about the problem? Is there any hope for a fix? Is it just the Tour or are other phones affected?
    The trackball concept is flawed in it's very principle. But yes, RIM knows, VZW knows, Sprint knows. Even AT&T & T-Mobile know. Trackballs are troubleprone points. But with the minor redesign on the Tour, it is worse. There is nothing the carriers can do - it is all RIM.

    Get the slightest bit of crud in there & you're stuck - but it seems there is a definite hardware flaw in the design underneath the trackball, as well. If RIM cared, they'd not have produced & shipped a ton of them. Everyone who bought a Tour got a prototype that wasn't properly tested & QCd.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    08-08-09 07:01 PM
  12. RicanMedic78's Avatar
    Everyone who bought a Tour got a prototype that wasn't properly tested & QCd.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    I've always been of the belief that all new devices are prototypes for the early adopters anyway... its good practice to wait at least 30 days before buying a new gagit of any sort. Reviews always drop the ball! Kind of reminds me of how the Storm 1's screen click was so revolutionary! Wow! Low and behold, the cardboard behind the screen fix!!! YEA!
    08-08-09 10:57 PM
  13. slinky317's Avatar
    The trackball concept is flawed in it's very principle. But yes, RIM knows, VZW knows, Sprint knows. Even AT&T & T-Mobile know. Trackballs are troubleprone points. But with the minor redesign on the Tour, it is worse. There is nothing the carriers can do - it is all RIM.

    Get the slightest bit of crud in there & you're stuck - but it seems there is a definite hardware flaw in the design underneath the trackball, as well. If RIM cared, they'd not have produced & shipped a ton of them. Everyone who bought a Tour got a prototype that wasn't properly tested & QCd.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    The trackballs worked well in the Curve and the Pearl. Yes, they could get stuff jammed in there but they were easy enough to clear out.

    However, the Tour seems different. You said the Tour's a prototype... to what? It's leaning to be VZW's business Blackberry workhorse.
    08-09-09 09:53 AM
  14. cereal killer's Avatar
    Don't know how to operate the trackball? Really? It's not rocket science. You spin right, it moves right. You spin left, it moves left. My first phone I thought might have been a software issue, because rolling the trackball right did not work nearly as smoothly as rolling left. I went into a VZW store and theirs worked perfect. I went to another store, and they had one that worked perfect and one that didn't roll right. So I didn't understand that if it was a software issue then why wouldn't ALL Tours be having this issue. Also, people have said that you need to "feather" your trackball to make it work right. If this was a software issue, why would it matter how much pressure you're putting on the trackball? Brickbreaker was actually the best test - playing it showed how unresponsive the trackball could be. Seeing that people on the forums had this issue and that the Tour in the Verizon store worked perfectly, I swapped out my phone.

    For my second phone, I could physically feel the trackball not make contact with the roller while spinning to the right. This was also straight out of the box. Literally the first time I used it I felt it. Now, sometimes the phone doesn't even register when I click. I have to press down HARD for it to recognize a click.

    Yes, I am on my third phone. But just one look at all the threads created in the Tour forum shows that a lot of people are having this issue, even before the status test screen was even mentioned. Furthermore, this was brought up by a reviewer when he reviewed the phone. Are you saying he doesn't know how to correctly operate a trackball either?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Yes that's exactly what I'm telling you and 99% of the others. The trackball was designed to be feathered and couple that with an obvious software issue lead to a lot of those posts.

    Couple that with all the misinformation that was floating around and it caused a mass hysteria. People simply didn't know any better. Bad information spreads fast in here.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    08-09-09 01:04 PM
  15. slinky317's Avatar
    Yes that's exactly what I'm telling you and 99% of the others. The trackball was designed to be feathered and couple that with an obvious software issue lead to a lot of those posts.

    Couple that with all the misinformation that was floating around and it caused a mass hysteria. People simply didn't know any better. Bad information spreads fast in here.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    The trackball was designed to be feathered? Do you have any proof of this or are you just assuming?

    What's funny is that in my second Tour, if you "feather" the trackball it doesn't make contact with the rollers and won't roll right. You HAVE to apply pressure or else it won't work.

    I'm sorry, but you should be able to roll a trackball with as little or as much pressure as you want and as long as the trackball rolls, the cursor should move. Just because you make excuses that the trackball has to be feathered doesn't mean there's not a problem with it.

    You blame people spreading misconceptions about the trackball, but then you so easily accept that there's a software issue that's causing the trackball issue. Why then does it react to the amount of pressure you put on the trackball? If it was a software issue, it would affect it no matter how much pressure you put on it. Also, not everyone is having this problem... like I said, two Tours in the Verizon store acted completely different of each other with the same amount of pressure. Given that everyone on the Tour has the same software out of the box, if one Tour has this bug then they all should have it. Also, using Brickbreaker and the browser reveal the issue - the cursor doesn't just stop, it slightly moves the OPPOSITE way of what you're turning. It's not just limited to the home screen and menus. And why is it that this problem is mainly with trackballs rolling to the right, but not to the left or vertically?

    I have a friend who is on Sprint who bought his Tour and isn't on the Crackberry forums. He BBMed me and asked if anything was up with the trackball because his wouldn't roll right properly. Also, there was a REVIEWER who mentioned the problem before the "hysteria" started.

    Saying that people need to feather the trackball and turn the sensitivity up to 80-100 is NOT a fix. It is an excuse, a pass to RIM, and a duct-tape measure. When you pay what we're paying for these devices, they should work no matter how much pressure you're putting on the trackball and whatever sensitivity you use. We shouldn't be forced to accept half-assed measures to get our phones to be working properly.

    If you're so quick to explain the issue as a software problem, what are you thoughts on TwinsX2Dad's posts that said there's an issue with the understructure of the phone that is causing the problem? Keep in mind that he is not just an average user like the rest of us - he tests many phones on many carriers far prior to when they're released to the public.
    Last edited by slinky317; 08-09-09 at 01:54 PM.
    08-09-09 01:42 PM
  16. DesertDogs's Avatar
    I guess if you feather the trackball, the problem will just fly away?

    If this was a software issue, why isn't everyone seeing it yet? Software code doesn't change itself to respond to an up command by not moving, then moving left or even down. It isn't always dirt because new ones are installed and the problem continues. It is something wrong with the sensors. Either they easily get crudded up or there is a hardware problem in them. Or it could be a bad chip that translates physical movement to digital code.

    Maybe if people feather the trackball, the entire phone will fly away and there will be nothing left to complain about.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    08-09-09 02:20 PM
  17. cereal killer's Avatar
    I'm sorry, but you should be able to roll a trackball with as little or as much pressure as you want and as long as the trackball rolls, the cursor should move.
    should be able to do this, should be able to do that..it does not matter what you should be able to do. It is not advisable to use it any other way. Use it correctly.

    There will always be slight variations in hardware and some people may not have to feather the trackball, that's a given. But in a lot cases using the trackball correctly will help alleviate the "issue" until a software fix is released.

    Hopefully they will release a software update but that remains to be seen.
    08-09-09 02:49 PM
  18. slinky317's Avatar
    should be able to do this, should be able to do that..it does not matter what you should be able to do. It is not advisable to use it any other way. Use it correctly.

    There will always be slight variations in hardware and some people may not have to feather the trackball, that's a given. But in a lot cases using the trackball correctly will help alleviate the "issue" until a software fix is released.

    Hopefully they will release a software update but that remains to be seen.
    Once again, I ask where is the proof that feathering the trackball is the "correct" way to use it? Because I see nothing about it in manuals or anything from RIM. Just because it works to alleviate the problem (but doesn't completely fix it) does NOT mean it's the only correct way to use it. It would be like if the Q key didn't work and you said "Well the correct way to use the keyboard is to not use the Q key." It's ignoring the underlying problem.

    I'm still waiting for you to answer these questions regarding the claim that the problem is software based:

    - Software can't detect variable pressure (only if you click). Why would feathering it cause the software to act differently?

    - If the software is becoming "overwhelmed" enough to not register trackball movements, why is it only happening in one direction (usually right)?

    - The software on the Tour is standardized across phones. Why are two phones with the same settings and same software behaving completely different?
    Last edited by slinky317; 08-09-09 at 03:06 PM.
    08-09-09 02:56 PM
  19. l3l2ad's Avatar
    I have a Sprint Tour...a few friends with em as well. Not really on anyone's side...just wanted to input some more info.

    I've really only had 1 trackball issue and that was outta my 8130 pearl...Curve worked FINE and the TOUR is kickin a$$!!! I feel like the design is better than the Pearl and Curve because it doesn't pop out as easy and there isn't much room for lint or dirt to really get in...unless you got DIRTY fingers!!

    Maybe there is a software issue and defective trackballs...no reason both can't be an issue
    08-09-09 03:36 PM
  20. slinky317's Avatar
    The trackball concept is flawed in it's very principle. But yes, RIM knows, VZW knows, Sprint knows. Even AT&T & T-Mobile know. Trackballs are troubleprone points. But with the minor redesign on the Tour, it is worse. There is nothing the carriers can do - it is all RIM.

    Get the slightest bit of crud in there & you're stuck - but it seems there is a definite hardware flaw in the design underneath the trackball, as well. If RIM cared, they'd not have produced & shipped a ton of them. Everyone who bought a Tour got a prototype that wasn't properly tested & QCd.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Have you played with the trackpad on the 85X0 and the 9700 yet? From what little I could tell from playing with T-Mobile's 8520, the trackpad is much smoother than the trackball and you obviously won't get gunk caught in there. Have you had any experience with it?
    08-10-09 09:40 PM
  21. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    While I've had some setup issues, due to a strong biological electrical field, they are definitely smoother. With a little fiddling, even I have been able to get them working better than any trackball. Trackpads are also much more conducive to mobile devices than are balls.

    I was always taught that it is not a good idea to run around with your balls exposed.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    08-11-09 09:58 AM
  22. Alenee83xx's Avatar
    Actually, the trackball is a very bad design. Replacements are the same bad design.

    Now, here is the problem. If your trackball actually rolls while you have this issue, it isn't the trackball. This is the description that fits the majority of Tour trackball problems and is a problem documented with the design six months ago. It is not a quick fix, nor will it be fixed without a redesign. We're talking the substructure here - not a popout & replace item.

    If your trackball sticks, like what we've seen for a long time on Curve/Bold/8830/Pearl, it is dirt/debris in the trackball. Again, poor design & concept, but it is fixable with trackball replacement until the next speck of dust, pocket lint, grit, etc., all stuck together with grease, skin oil and/or fabric softener residue attacks your new trackball.

    I don't know what mentally deficient individual thought taking a cheap & troubleprone desktop computer mouse technology for a mobile phone would be a good idea, but they shouldn't be fired - they should be hung. Buy the cheapo Brand X computer mouse & it has a roller ball. Get the quality mouse & it is optical. You guys think you bought a quality item? Think again, because it is poorly engineered crap.

    You can replace, replace & replace again. It will not go away until a new hardware design is trotted out. What? Yours works well? Just wait - odds are it will fail on you. Might be three days, three months or spring 2010 - it will probably cripple your phone, so be prepared.

    It is like a slice of bread - it will someday get hard or moldy. When is the question. And no matter what you do with that slice, it will never taste like ribeye, because it wasn't designed to taste like steak.

    If that's the case, why do you own a Blackberry? Why even be on a Blackberry enthusiast forum? You don't sound like your enthusiastic about the device. Go kick rocks.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    08-11-09 10:31 AM
  23. blue_and_bold's Avatar
    If that's the case, why do you own a Blackberry? Why even be on a Blackberry enthusiast forum? You don't sound like your enthusiastic about the device. Go kick rocks.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    The man is an open book of knowledge. He was giving his two pennies and if you had spent any time reading his posts you wouldnt tell him to "kick rocks." So maybe you should "kick rocks" or get the **** out
    08-11-09 10:43 AM
  24. slinky317's Avatar
    If that's the case, why do you own a Blackberry? Why even be on a Blackberry enthusiast forum? You don't sound like your enthusiastic about the device. Go kick rocks.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    It's okay to be enthusiastic about something but at the same time criticize it. It shows he really cares about the product because he wants it to be better.
    08-11-09 12:57 PM
  25. Branta's Avatar
    Yes that's exactly what I'm telling you and 99% of the others. The trackball was designed to be feathered and couple that with an obvious software issue lead to a lot of those posts.

    Couple that with all the misinformation that was floating around and it caused a mass hysteria. People simply didn't know any better. Bad information spreads fast in here.
    You're right about mass hyteria but I don't think software is the primary issue. The problem is too random for software and it doesn't seem to clear with a battery pull or just putting the phone aside to let it think for a few minutes.

    I have seen a similar tb problem on the Bold, mostly not scrolling right, and it feels "different" as if it is not touching the roller for right scroll but close inspection (lens) shows the ball is turning. A few moments of energetic spinning the ball in all directions with varying pressure always fixed it so far. It needs enough touch grip the ball and make it spin so it can sweep debris away, but not enough to jam the ball in its housing and trap any debris.

    I don't know exactly what you mean by "feather" but I'm guessing very light touch. That seems to fit with my thoughts that it needs enough downforce to grip and carry debris out of the moving parts, but not so much it makes the debris grip hard against the housing.

    There is also some logic against my suspicion of debris lifting the ball off one roller. If the cause is debris, why is it usually Right Scroll that fails? I would expect more even distribution between the directions. I even dismantled my Bold for cleaning, expecting to find some signs of contamination and dislodged crap around the ball after 9 months but it was almost spotless. However the intermittent but persistent nature of the problem makes mechanical/hardware failure less likely as the cause and software even more unlikely.
    08-12-09 09:31 AM
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