10-14-09 07:29 AM
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  1. AZX2's Avatar
    Irrelevant, we're not acting as representatives.
    You certainly are - even the NLRB says you are. The minute you say you work for X Widgets & speak about Widgets from a position that derives information from your company employment experience, you've put yourself in the position of representative.

    Even if not directly employed by a company you contracted with - once you admit that, and talk about things that company does, you become a representative by extension.

    The alternative is to have never told anyone you worked for X Widgets.

    We don't do this, we already know you can't disclose secret information.
    It has been done on this site. The minute you mention things that are not in the public domain - partially using the examples in the Planet complaint, CLNR & Multi-FRU - you have disclosed proprietary information.

    Think of it this way. If I call 611 & ask for details surrounding the Storm2 or Omnia2, is the rep allowed to elaborate or even speculate on the actual release or device details? If not, why come to a chat board, tell everyone you work for the company & then proceed to discuss the device or release dates?

    Remember, I am speaking in the proverbial "you" & not you in particular.

    Don't really see how this matters.
    I posted that because we all see it go on - but no one follows the letter ot the Code of Conduct.
    Can you post the whole sentence please? I don't have access to to CoC right now I'm not at work. I believe this is dealing with criminal activity. Not posting on a public forum. I think that is taken out of context.

    We're also trying to find where it says that you can't even say you're an employee.
    It doesn't say you can't say you're an employee - but the minute you do, you need to adhere to the Code of Conduct.

    Section 1.8

    Employees must avoid conduct off the job that could impair work performance or affect the company’s reputation or business interests. You must advise your Human Resources Business Partner of all felony convictions, and any criminal arrest or conviction that may affect your ability to perform your job. Verizon reserves the right to inspect, monitor and record the use of all company property and systems.

    Now you seem stuck on the sentence which reads "You must advise your Human Resources Business Partner of all felony convictions, and any criminal arrest or conviction that may affect your ability to perform your job." & assume it means the entire section is only for illegal activity - if this were true, how does that thought process hold for the last sentence? That one reads, "Verizon reserves the right to inspect, monitor and record the use of all company property and systems."

    If the middle sentence sets the tone, precedent & requirement for the entire section, why is it not at the beginning? Does VZW reserve the right to inspect, monitor & record only when there is a felony in commission?

    It's a progressive statement.

    Employees must avoid conduct off the job that could impair work performance or affect the company’s reputation or business interests.
    In other words, you may not act like a fool, be rude, obnoxioius or condescending in a public venue where people know you're a VZW rep & VZW involvement might be assumed or contrived.
    You must advise your Human Resources Business Partner of all felony convictions, and any criminal arrest or conviction that may affect your ability to perform your job.
    This adds to the first part; it doesn't precede it.

    Regardless of whether or not you brought shame to the company or tarnished any reputations, a felony must be reported & matters of legal issue concerning your integrity must also be reported. Get a DUI & drive for VZW, you might lose your job. DUI for a call rep? You'll probably keep it. Petty theft? You might keep your job if you only drive; lose it in CS.

    For my company, get drunk & into a fight, you might keep your job, unless you were wearing your company ID badge. Drink one too many & get a DUI, you will lose it, since most of my people drive company vehicles in the course of their job.

    IVerizon reserves the right to inspect, monitor and record the use of all company property and systems.

    In addition, no matter what you're doing, the company serves notice you will be monitored.

    I can tell you VZW records & archives every keystroke input you make on their systems. They can access things you did years after you did it. If they want to get rid of you, they can probably find sufficient cause in those archives.

    Please note it didn't have an "and" between any of the sentences. Also, it is irrelevant what your center thinks - Verizon Legal wrote the CofC & Corporate enforces it. Corporate is the entity that will process that complaint with Legal's input. Our CofC is written with similar wording & I signed off on it

    Posted from my wornout keyboard at wapforums.crackberry.com
    08-25-09 08:00 PM
  2. IDsweetcheeks's Avatar
    Reps never die, they just get upgraded
    Just became 2.0
    08-25-09 08:08 PM
  3. gotblackberry's Avatar
    Twins, you have a different interpretation of the CoC than I do. I believe that hurting the reputation of the company would have to be like committing a crime or something to that affect.

    I brought up the CoC because someone stated that we can't even state we are employees. Also, I do not believe we are representing Verizon Wireless. I brought up my employment status because of the fact that it would lend credit to my advice on plans/procedures etc.

    I have never discussed Omnia 2 release dates, or any information. I have seen it done, and I agree those customers should not be working for the company anymore. However, just coming down with a harsh tone on a customer (on our own free time) does not violate the CoC.

    Of course you have your opinion Twins, but I guess it doesn't matter.
    08-25-09 08:23 PM
  4. gotblackberry's Avatar
    I disagree. Definition of represent:

    be a delegate or spokesperson for; represent somebody's interest or be a proxy or substitute for, as of politicians and office holders representing their constituents, or of a tenant representing other tenants in a housing dispute; "I represent the silent majority"
    We're are not coming on here saying we're spokesman or delegates for Verizon Wireless.
    08-25-09 08:30 PM
  5. TaZ52083's Avatar
    Oh boy i see trouble lol
    08-25-09 08:47 PM
  6. Darthkuriboh's Avatar
    I'm also prolly not gonna bother volunteering my free time to help customers anymore if that's how we'll be treated. Just no point to it.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    08-25-09 08:55 PM
  7. AZX2's Avatar
    We're are not coming on here saying we're spokesman or delegates for Verizon Wireless.
    Be a proxy or substitute for...

    Are you not substituting for a call to 611?

    And, that was not my opinion - that is the way the legal world, business community & the telcos have interpreted it for years.

    Don't forget - I was one of those working in mid & upper-level management for telcos for years - probably before you got out of school. For some, probably before they got into school or took their first breath. Let's see here - I went to work for Mountain States Telephone & Telegraph, a unit of the AT&T Bell System while Nixon was still in office - 1971. Over the years, I saw time at Western Electric, Bell Labs, Pacific Bell, and even a network liason for ILECs, like SNET, GTE & Citizens Telecom & collaborated with all the operating units - including the ones who eventually became part & parcel of VZCom.

    While I am not an attorney, nor do I play one online, being in telecom for 38 years & a business owner off & on for over 20, I may have a smight inkling as to how things might actually work. As I've mentioned before, I have been part & parcel to terminations of people who did a whole lot less than calling a customer a name in a thread dedicated to VZW rep responses

    Much of what I say here isn't my opinion - it is experience.
    sorry, but I will place infinitely more faith in my experience than in your opinion - unless you have somewhere close to my level of experience as a telco manager & employer.

    Thats what this is about some pissant got mad that he got flamed. I could really care less. I like posting here because I work with bb's all day. Knowing the ins and outs are a huge help, and I use the search button at least once a day.
    Two things to think about in that portion of your post.

    Thats what this is about some pissant got mad that he got flamed. I could really care less. .
    Do customers not have the right to complain? What in a reasonable & rational complaint makes someone - a customer especially - a pissant who should be flamed?

    That is a complaint I had here - someone disagreed with what I said - it didn't matter who was right & who was wrong. I would get attacked & basically a pissant or worse & get flamed on the way. I bring out the big guns, the attacker hits the "report" link & the mod doesn't look at the history - they've made up their mind that I was wrong before they even came to the entire thread.

    Being right or wrong doesn't make someone a pissant - but poor attitudes can make some whine more than others. Still, a valid complaint is a valid complaint - it may be one based on perception, like the mods responding to a complaint, but it is still valid. And reasonable, competent managers will look for the underlying circumstances before acting.

    The problem is, there is never an excuse to call out or abuse a customer - right or wrong.
    I like posting here because I work with bb's all day. Knowing the ins and outs are a huge help, and I use the search button at least once a day.
    There are two reasons you help others. One is you genuinely want to be of service. The second is for self-gratification.

    The first usually comes with a lot of patience & goodwill. These things manifest themselves in a genuine & obvious caring attitude. The second one is generally seen accompanied with a bad, sarcastic, condescending and/or impatient demeanor.

    For anyone reading this, ask yourself which one fits you. Are you in first place or do you wallow in number 2?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    08-25-09 09:04 PM
  8. gotblackberry's Avatar
    Again, you can lend credit to your "experience" twins, that's fine. Obviously you're going to believe your opinion over mine. You being in telecom for 400 years doesn't mean that your opinion over an interpretation of a CoC of a company is any more valid than mine. I'm not going to sit here and have longwinded debates with you about a clause in our CoC.

    We're not substituting a call for CS. In fact, the person shouldn't assume what we say is true because for all we know the person doesn't actually work for VzW who answers here (maybe I dont?). If a person wants truly correct information with accountability a call is what they should be making.
    08-25-09 09:26 PM
  9. AZX2's Avatar
    I wanted to show the definition of Representative in its entirety, as previous attempts were either abridged or incomplete.


    n.
    1. One that serves as an example or type for others of the same classification.
    2. One that serves as a delegate or agent for another.
      1. A member of a governmental body, usually legislative, chosen by popular vote.
      2. A member of the U.S. House of Representatives or of the lower house of a state legislature.
    adj.
    1. Representing, depicting, or portraying or able to do so.
    2. Authorized to act as an official delegate or agent.
    3. Of or characteristic of government by representation.
    4. Like or typical of others of the same class.
    representatively rep'resen'tatively adv.
    representativeness rep'resen'tativeness n.


    If you represent yourself here as a VZW representative, I don't have a clue as to how you can claim you aren't representing yourself as a VZW representative.
    08-25-09 09:26 PM
  10. crackalackberry's Avatar
    Dont think weekend has ever said "if you talk to me, its just as good as if you call customer service." In fact, he usually refers people to call to get 100% correct info, since nobody here can actually be 100% certain he does work for vzw, even if he says he does. for all we know, he may just be someone that knows vzw policies very well.
    08-25-09 09:51 PM
  11. AZX2's Avatar
    Again, you can lend credit to your "experience" twins, that's fine. Obviously you're going to believe your opinion over mine.

    You being in telecom for 400 years doesn't mean that your opinion over an interpretation of a CoC of a company is any more valid than mine. I'm not going to sit here and have longwinded debates with you about a clause in our CoC.

    We're not substituting a call for CS. In fact, the person shouldn't assume what we say is true because for all we know the person doesn't actually work for VzW who answers here (maybe I dont?). If a person wants truly correct information with accountability a call is what they should be making.
    Hold the phone here - if you are so sure about your opinion & your actions here, why are you worrying? Why are your feelings evidently hurt over what a few people said on PlanetFeedback?

    From my experience, including chatting about this very topic with a number of people from not only VZW, but AT&T, Cox and Qwest since my return from vacation - there is a lot for carrier reps to be worried about on this subject - because the higher levels agree with how I am presenting the CoC. If they track an issue back to you, your opinion will hold no water. If they track it back to me, I don't need to worry about it - again, I don't work for the company & I'd have to sign my own discipline.

    If you'd like, I will pull the very similar wordings from those companies' CoCs - unfortunately, specific cases are not available to show you here, because all of those companies treat employee actions - especially disciplinary actions - with the utmost care. Never mind - if I can pull the CoCs, so can you.

    But here is the biggest problem - instead of figuring out a way to correct the problem surrounding the complaint - and it is a complaint very similar to dozens we've seen on these pages - too many are trying to rationalize the behavior and figure out ways to shoot the customer down. This is not indicative of a good customer service attitude - rather, it basically confirms what the guy was complaining about originally, right there on PlanetFeedback.

    And yes, some here are guilty of exactly what that complaint alleges. So am I, except I don't work for VZW.

    And you, Weekendbum, have a lot more to be concerned about than some here - you have identified yourself on this forum numerous times - what & where you have worked, including a recent move to a new center. I could recite the details of what you've shared ad-nauseum, but I won't - I won't even share the address of your center, even though I drove past it four times today on my way to City Hall.

    I am not saying you've done anything wrong, nor do I recall reading anything you've said that might be construed in a less than flattering manner. But, if you did, it wouldn't take electronic tracking or court-orders for VZW to determine exactly who you are. They don't need your name or your IP address - your employment history will lead them right to your desk.

    Deleting the info won't help much either - VZW may have the pages already archived OR they can be pulled using any number of Internet archive sites.

    So if I were you, I'd spend less time trying to affix blame or determine loopholes in the employment requirements & a whole lot more figuring out how to make everyone with a VZW question you come in contact with a happy soul. Fixing problems is always a much better solution than trying to figure out how to get around policy or rationalizing what you may have done that was less than stellar.

    Lastly, before you try to call into question my "experience," can you tell me what you were doing in 1971? I'll make it easy - if you're under 38 years of age......well, you figure it out.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    08-25-09 10:08 PM
  12. tsguy52's Avatar
    We're not substituting a call for CS. In fact, the person shouldn't assume what we say is true because for all we know the person doesn't actually work for VzW who answers here (maybe I dont?). If a person wants truly correct information with accountability a call is what they should be making.
    This is exactly my point. Why can ANYONE complain about being mistreated on the internet by someone they don't even know is an employee. This whole thing is ridiculous...
    08-25-09 10:12 PM
  13. AaronWasHere's Avatar
    Reps never die, they just get upgraded
    Ooh, i'll take an upgrade! Can I be taller and have better eyesight?
    08-25-09 10:13 PM
  14. Darthkuriboh's Avatar
    I want better knees and back. All the chainings and beatings VZ* gives us as morale boosters is taking its toll!

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    08-25-09 10:16 PM
  15. the one and only M's Avatar
    i don't want to read a 10 page thread.

    Ralph S. is a LAME-O
    08-25-09 10:22 PM
  16. Darthkuriboh's Avatar
    All it is is us telling CB we'll no longer be offering assistance.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    08-25-09 10:24 PM
  17. crackalackberry's Avatar
    just to confirm, are we bickering about whether or not vzw emps should say "hey i work for vzw, you do have an issue, call customer service..." I get some people can act rudeish at times on here, but then again everyone does... idk, this thread seems pointless and its not helping anything
    08-25-09 10:26 PM
  18. the one and only M's Avatar
    We're not substituting a call for CS. In fact, the person shouldn't assume what we say is true because for all we know the person doesn't actually work for VzW who answers here (maybe I dont?). If a person wants truly correct information with accountability a call is what they should be making.

    exactly...
    08-25-09 10:26 PM
  19. crackalackberry's Avatar
    yes, many people can answer questions people have. but many people do rely on weekend lastraidand so on looking for correct info. And yes, many people will be missing them helping out
    08-25-09 10:46 PM
  20. crackalackberry's Avatar
    I don't see any option to delete an account.
    PM a mod, they can delete (i think)
    08-25-09 10:47 PM
  21. tsguy52's Avatar
    I say that the ones who are not going to offer advice anymore (boo-hoo) will not be missed since their conduct on this board calls into question their devotion to the customer. I do thank you for any of your good advice, however, there are plenty on here that answer questions without stooping to your level.
    I'm just wondering - what "conduct" are you referring to specifically? Could you point that out for me? What about the conduct from the customer? Isn't that to be accounted for? Paying to a company doesn't give a customer free reign to be rude in their posts here. Normally the higher paying customers are the nicest anyway - that is in most industries.

    Seems like this thread is about a whole bunch of nothing... You should hear what is said during "work hours". I can assure you that the "What customers say" thread is PG compared to what actually goes on.

    By the way I've always had great NPS and customer kudos - so I don't think my attitude has anything to do with how I treat customers.
    Last edited by tsguy52; 08-25-09 at 11:16 PM.
    08-25-09 11:03 PM
  22. jahoobob's Avatar
    I'm just wondering - what "conduct" are you referring to specifically? Could you point that out for me? What about the conduct from the customer? Isn't that to be accounted for? Paying to a company doesn't give a customer free reign to be rude in their posts here. Normally the higher paying customers are the nicest anyway - that is in most industries.

    Seems like this thread is about a whole bunch of nothing... You should hear what is said during "work hours". I can assure you that the "What customers say" thread is PG compared to what actually goes on.

    By the way I've always had great NPS and customer kudos - so I don't think my attitude has anything to do with how I treat customers.
    You know exactly about which conduct I speak. You refer to it on your post (I have bolded it for your convenience.) What you say about customers to ONLY VZW employees is okay with me even if it is R or X rated. We did the same in companies where I have worked but we did not make any of those comments public. We would even use examples in training sessions.
    You are too funny. You make me laugh.
    08-25-09 11:23 PM
  23. vatothe0's Avatar
    I say that the ones who are not going to offer advice anymore (boo-hoo) will not be missed since their conduct on this board calls into question their devotion to the customer. I do thank you for any of your good advice, however, there are plenty on here that answer questions without stooping to your level.
    That's interesting since I work OT when needed, have not had a bad QA call in years, and have files full of QA awards and customer commendations. Yet I get called out by some coward on PFB as rude and unhelpful?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    08-25-09 11:24 PM
  24. tsguy52's Avatar
    You know exactly about which conduct I speak. You refer to it on your post (I have bolded it for your convenience.) What you say about customers to ONLY VZW employees is okay with me even if it is R or X rated. We did the same in companies where I have worked but we did not make any of those comments public. We would even use examples in training sessions.
    You are too funny. You make me laugh.
    So how many times have I posted in that thread? How does this include me in a PFB complaint? Not that I really CARE that much - I just want to know where this whole thing is going and if it is even meaningful at this point.
    08-25-09 11:27 PM
  25. tsguy52's Avatar
    That's interesting since I work OT when needed, have not had a bad QA call in years, and have files full of QA awards and customer commendations. Yet I get called out by some coward on PFB as rude and unhelpful?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    EXACTLY. 100% agree. Why do we get called out? What about the exchange from customers on this forum? Shouldn't they treat us with the same amount of respect?

    Maybe I should go post a PFB complaint about CrackBerry and how it's allowing customers to post rude posts here. Then call a few customers out that are regular posters.. hmm.. I may do that!
    08-25-09 11:30 PM
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