10-15-09 07:49 PM
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  1. gettinthere's Avatar
    I believe he was referring to when someone does come in for a new phone & they are definitely taking it home with them.

    It was a statement in response to a previous allegation that authorized retailers are selling used phones.
    They do sell used phones though.
    10-14-09 06:49 PM
  2. R.O.C.'s Avatar
    From personal experience from having worked in some of these stores, and shopped at others...

    The only authorized reseller I was impressed by was Best Buy. They've pretty much implemented dedicated employees to their newly formed Best Buy Mobile. They get much more specific training and are much more educated when it comes to mobile technology...

    I know I read on here somewhere, someone was saying that authorized resellsers knew a lot more than reps... This made me laugh a little...
    10-14-09 06:52 PM
  3. Rwil85's Avatar
    Adding to my previous post..it worked out that I returned the phone bc then verizon was running a full rebate on the 8330..so, I immediately called and had it overnighted from vzw for $15.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    10-14-09 07:01 PM
  4. itsthemusic's Avatar
    From personal experience from having worked in some of these stores, and shopped at others...

    The only authorized reseller I was impressed by was Best Buy. They've pretty much implemented dedicated employees to their newly formed Best Buy Mobile. They get much more specific training and are much more educated when it comes to mobile technology...

    I know I read on here somewhere, someone was saying that authorized resellsers knew a lot more than reps... This made me laugh a little...
    Depending on the knowledge of the individual, they might have a better grasp on technology but to say that they know Verizons policys better is a joke. The trainings that they may get are issued by Verizon....So them knowing more than a corporate rep is like saying you know more about Roman history than your Roman history teacher.
    10-14-09 07:03 PM
  5. touruser123's Avatar
    LOL, i actually work with the guy (our store manager) who you were chatting with earlier. Sorry, i wanted to chime in simply to add my side. I was sitting right next to 'menno' when you guys were going back and forth earlier. It's definately another human typing now. I just honestly pulled some numbers to let you know that it's not a rip off. Out of 12 stores, 12 protection plans were sold and there were 0 claims. That's today. Whose to say what will happen tomorrow. It is honestly a pretty good phone protection with brand spanking new equipment. Anyway i am not putting down corporate stores at all. Besides Big Red does not directly own asurion do they?? I really do not know if they do or do not. There are some advantages of going directly to corporate that this chat thread tackled but I think the best reason to go to an indirect is location. 100 out of 100 people that are walking into our store do so to not have to drive the extra 15 minutes and then stand in line for upwards of 30 to 45 minutes. So your getting convenience. It's location.
    My opinion... Of course it might be cheaper to go online and buy things but corner stores will never fully go out of business because you can save 1 bucks online.
    10-14-09 08:58 PM
  6. NVR2ND's Avatar
    First resellers=retailers
    I ask because I work for a premium retailer. No idea about this reseller thing.

    Some authorized resellers offer different deals for customers, or can offer different accessory bundles. Generally easiest to buy from the carrier directly though.
    Our accessories are less expensive. Car Chargers are $19.99 not $29.99. That is the first accessory that I can think of off the top of my head. We also do BOGO on accessories when you are signing an agreement.

    There are some ex-CONS working in them?
    There can be Ex-Cons working nearly everywhere. Not sure if this is an inside joke that I am not aware of though.

    yeah, i really see no advantages to it. only disadvantages. i'd encourage everyone never to buy from an "authorized reseller". verizonwireless.com offers free overnight shipping on upgrades anyway. i did not know this until after the fact.

    a week or two after i upgraded at the authorized reseller, i mailed in my rebate because i liked the phone (enV touch), but then it started acting up, and i heard the storm2 was coming out a couple months later, so i tried to return it, but i couldn't get my money back because i had already sent in the rebate. i was able to return the phone, but i lost 100 bucks in the process AND my upgrade is listed online as only $50 when it should be $100. although, i contacted Verizon about that, and they said that if i got $100 credit the first time, i'd be able to get it again the second time. they just have to do it manually, which means that i'll either have to go into the store, or call customer service and order over the phone when i'd really prefer to just order it myself online.
    So they wouldnt give you your $100 back that you would be getting in the mail? Which is to say that they wouldnt let you make $100 by returning the phone? Those jerks.

    Besides supporting your local community, which many people could care less about. I mean the store that I work for is on the chamber of commerc, invests the money in the local banks, and donates largely to the local high school/other non profit orgs. Keep in mind that the compnay I work for has 9 stores, and has been around since 1977. They got there start with CB/ Two way radio's growing ever since.

    It's like buying US products to support jobs in america, only on a smaller more local scale. No real benefit there

    Pro - Good deal
    Con - If something goes wrong and you go back pray to whatever god you believe in they care about you.
    Pretty sure we've all heard/seen/experienced the true horror or authorized resellers.
    Really? lol. I guess this is possible at some locations, but not the case at the store I work in currently.
    There are no pro's. End of story.

    If you want to count "cheaper phone" as a pro, keep in mind your "cheaper phone" probably isn't new even though you were told it was. I'd be a happy person if VZW closed all indirect/authorized agents.
    WOW!!! Do you like not having any options as to where purchase your phone? If Verizon didnt have competition, even if they are allowing it, they could charge a lot more then they do for a phone.
    I can see the points, but it may depend on the retailer & even the location.
    There is usually a much shorter wait at retailers, but sometimes the selection of devices is reduced, too. The retailers don't have to carry all devices. The employees are generally nicer & more helpful at the retailers, compared with many of the overworked corp store people.

    Just some things to keep in mind.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Once again the store that I work at carries all devices except Pantech, and Nokia. We dont carry these because we cant order the parts for our tech to repair the phones.


    At the same time (depending on your area) the corporate stores make the indirect agents look like garage sales. My area to be specific, no one is happy with the agents around here but all of the corporate stores give the customers GREAT customer experiences.
    Wierd, in my area it is sometimes the other way around. Corp stores have tough qoutas to meet, and sometimes those qoutas cost customers. You wouldnt believe the number of people that come into our store and say they hate the corp store down the street. From high pressure sales on text/ smart phones to pushing accessories. I have had to remove vcast from enough phoens when people come in ******** that they were "forced" to take it. It hurts my numbers, but I dont have the qoutas. I cant say what I would or wouldnt do if my JOB was on the line, but I have had to deal with things that others have done.


    Every place can be good or bad, often it depends on the type of person that is helping you. Would I ever buy from WalMart no, I dont think that they have the training that I want for the questiosn I have. However, I would go to an indirect similar to the company that I work for knowing that I can walk in and talk to a person. Not having to sign into a computer with a hoep that I am signing into the correct spot. We can all walk into a corp store and have a horrible experience, and the same can be said about indirects.
    10-14-09 09:15 PM
  7. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    They do sell used phones though.
    Some might - but not all, nor even most.

    The ones I've seen that sell used phones here are legally required to label them as used, open-box, etc. It is an FTC law that they do this.

    And, while I didn't bring up any knowledge issues before, I will say that many reseller people do know more about phones than the average corporate rep does AND they can direct someone to the best plan for them - instead of the small selection one carrier might offer.

    If I walk into a VZW store & ask for an HTC Hero, what will I be told? If I walk into a reseller and ask for the same phone, I will be told it is only on Sprint right now.

    Wnat? I don't want Sprint.

    Well sir, why not?

    Because I want a good signal.

    Well, where do you use your phone?

    Around town.

    Do you travel?

    No, I hate to travel.

    Do you ever go to Sedona, Casa Grande, or Payson?

    No, I said I don't travel.

    Where do you live & work?

    I live in Tempe & work in downtown Phoenix.

    Ever drive out to the outkirts of town?

    No.

    Okay, what is it you want to do with your phone?

    I want to make calls, get a bit of email, text & listen to music.

    Well sir, I can sell you a Hero, like you wanted, but since you don't like Sprint, let me show you some options from VZW, T-Mobile, Leap, Boost & AT&T.

    And while we're at it, let me show you how you can save a lot of money by going with mayne a feature phone on Sprint or maybe...


    Let's see any carrier rep do that.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    10-14-09 09:23 PM
  8. Menno's Avatar
    Having 200 stores in 12 states just makes it more of a loss if you really are pulling brand new phones off the shelf to hand out. Is the customers contract being extended when this is done? If not, this is a HUGE loss. If you look at the simple math involved...

    Retail price on a Storm is 499.99

    Lets say you guys sell it at the 149.99 price point + 100 insurance. You are at 249.99. Then they lose it 1 month later and pay 39.99 to get a new one, you are now at 289.98. So Thats 2 Storms at 499.99 a piece totaling 999.98 That you guys "sold" for $289.98. Thats a 710.00 loss for the company each time it happens. Lets just say that it happens at half of your 200 stores in 1 week. Thats a $71,000.00 dollar loss for the company in 1 week. I dont believe that is how business is done at your indirect agent, sorry.
    I didn't make a new account. I use this same name on half a dozen forums. (engadget, phonescoop, and here for three phone related ones) I have no idea who that guy is. EDIT: apparently I do.. I can assure you he is a different person.

    You are assuming an insane claim rate though. Claims are around 20%.

    So lets use nice round numbers.

    Let's say I sell 1,000 storms (easy when you are talking multiple stores)
    Average take rate for our protection plan is 60% so 600 of those phones have our plan on them.

    Now, anything over 50% take rate has an average claim rate of 20% so 120 phones come back.

    We sell 600 storms with protection = (assuming 159.99+99.99 purchase) is $215,988.

    we have 120 claims 39.99*120= 4,798.8

    So we have a fund of 220,786.8 to work with.

    120 claims at 499.99 is 59,998.9 (lets round it to 60,000) Now, you doubled it to compensate for the original phone (120,000) I disagree with this because you are neglecting the commission made on the original sale. but lets run with it.

    That means that even with your double claim amount, that still leaves over $100,000 dollars in profit. Now that is just for ONE phone type across 1000 storms (i'm pretty sure companywide, 1000 blackberries is nothing) That's why I mentioned the number of stores. for a small chain, this would kill an indirect, but when you are talking thousands of phones, it ends up being very profitable.

    For an example, with an Env3 (approx retail value 280 or so) our protection is 70. So using the same example above (sale price is 179.99 + 69.99). Remember env3 (EDIT: Asurion) protection is 7.99 and a $90 deductible
    Initial Profit: 149,998
    Claim Profit: 4,798.8
    Total Profit: 154,796.8
    claim cost: 67,200 (120 claims + original phones)
    Net Profit: 87,596.8

    So out of 2000 phones, you are talking almost $200,000 profit

    so yes, it is profitable, and on top of that, it keeps customers very happy (because it is a new phone, and they get it from us, instead of a used phone through the mail) and this doesn't count the residuals that the company would get from customers who deal with us because of our protection (because this is almost impossible for me to estimate)

    If a store is terrible at selling the protection so their take rate is lower, it could end up costing them money. But company wide it is profitable.
    Last edited by Menno; 10-14-09 at 09:32 PM.
    10-14-09 09:24 PM
  9. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    You missed a critical piece there.

    You're basing your numbers on retail pricing. You're not paying retail for a replacement phone. So the profit is even higher.

    This is one of the reasons I feel the Asurion plan is a ripoff - they pay mass wholesale pricing for refurb equipment. Your deductible generally more than pays for the replacement.

    That is how your "protection plan" pricing is profitable, but it pales in comparison with the Asurion ripoff. It is also how places like Sam's Club or State Farm can halve your rates and still turn a profit.

    But we have people here still defending the Asurion package & the ripoff ways of the cell carriers in offering it. But then again, most things cell carriers offer are ripoffs & their overall level of service borders on creepy.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    10-14-09 10:47 PM
  10. Menno's Avatar
    You missed a critical piece there.

    You're basing your numbers on retail pricing. You're not paying retail for a replacement phone. So the profit is even higher.

    This is one of the reasons I feel the Asurion plan is a ripoff - they pay mass wholesale pricing for refurb equipment. Your deductible generally more than pays for the replacement.

    That is how your "protection plan" pricing is profitable, but it pales in comparison with the Asurion ripoff. It is also how places like Sam's Club or State Farm can halve your rates and still turn a profit.

    But we have people here still defending the Asurion package & the ripoff ways of the cell carriers in offering it. But then again, most things cell carriers offer are ripoffs & their overall level of service borders on creepy.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

    Yeah, i know the pricing was high cause he went on retail. I wanted to show him though that even with his numbers the system works. I pointed out the fact that he was double charging (orig+replacement) without figuring in commission, forgot to mention his thing on retail pricing. the fact still stands that it's very profitable to offer new replacements the way we do it for the company, which was why I posted the numbers.

    When we are offering brand new phones to customers for 140 (protection+deduc) and Asurion is giving refurbs for close to 300 (plan+tax+deduc) they must make a killing.
    10-14-09 11:24 PM
  11. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    All one is doing is amortizing risk. If the risk is too high, you raise the price of the package.

    My insurance broker - the guy whose kids I put through college & braces - tells me these kinds of plans rack up over 100% profit & the ones like Asurion offers gives them well over 600% return on their money. I would make an assumption that the majority of their outlays are in staff & advertising.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    10-14-09 11:33 PM
  12. Menno's Avatar
    All one is doing is amortizing risk. If the risk is too high, you raise the price of the package.

    My insurance broker - the guy whose kids I put through college & braces - tells me these kinds of plans rack up over 100% profit & the ones like Asurion offers gives them well over 600% return on their money. I would make an assumption that the majority of their outlays are in staff & advertising.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Yep, and to think most people thought they would never need to use Statistics in real life..

    10-14-09 11:42 PM
  13. R.O.C.'s Avatar
    Depending on the knowledge of the individual, they might have a better grasp on technology but to say that they know Verizons policys better is a joke. The trainings that they may get are issued by Verizon....So them knowing more than a corporate rep is like saying you know more about Roman history than your Roman history teacher.
    Right. There are certainly going to be individuals who understand the technology and are more up to date on phones than the Verizon reps. What I was saying was really more commenting on the post that I read (which I should really dig up because this rambling would make a lot more sense if it was up). The poster pretty much made a blanket statement that authorized agents generally know more than the VZW reps... Which in all honesty is a joke...

    I'll have to find that post so I have some ground to stand on...
    10-15-09 01:20 AM
  14. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    Right. There are certainly going to be individuals who understand the technology and are more up to date on phones than the Verizon reps. What I was saying was really more commenting on the post that I read (which I should really dig up because this rambling would make a lot more sense if it was up). The poster pretty much made a blanket statement that authorized agents generally know more than the VZW reps... Which in all honesty is a joke...

    I'll have to find that post so I have some ground to stand on...
    I remember that, too. And yes, it is a joke.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    10-15-09 01:23 AM
  15. R.O.C.'s Avatar
    I remember that, too. And yes, it is a joke.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Damn I still can't find it...

    Can't remember if it was in the Tour thread or the Storm thread or the VZW thread...

    What I have seen though is a lot of agent bashing... Apparently they're shady...
    10-15-09 01:48 AM
  16. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    It was here - I stay away from the Tour & Storm threads - I upset too many people. So if I remember it, it is here.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    10-15-09 02:32 AM
  17. R.O.C.'s Avatar
    Couldn't find it... did find some funny quotables...

    Yes you were lied to. Authorized Dealers are the bane of my existence! They are the shadiest mofo's in the industry. The good thing about them is that they are so incredibly stupid that when they screw up an account, they send them to a corporate store where customers are educated about them and never return. Anybody who does repeat business with them is an *****.
    authorized resellers aren't the most credible of references either, their base function is to sell you a new phone, they don't care a rat's *** about anything else. if you want to know about plans, warantee, insurance, options, call 1-800-922-0204
    Last edited by R.O.C.; 10-15-09 at 02:58 AM.
    10-15-09 02:54 AM
  18. R.O.C.'s Avatar
    I have nothing against agents... But just think that by going straight to the store you cut out the middle man...

    If you deal with an agent, authorized or not, it gives the carrier reps a degree of insulation from your issue.

    I prefer to have a single point of fault to place blame on. This way, I can tell them "YOU DID IT, SO YOU FIX IT!!!"







    ...so said a wise man...
    10-15-09 02:59 AM
  19. itsthemusic's Avatar
    Reading all these numbers is giving me a headache. I still dont believe your replacement phones are brand new.

    You can do math all day and even factor in commission. If you look at the very simple part... 499.99 full retail for a phone sold for 149.99 + 100 + 39.99 for 2 phones and you are in the negetive. Thats all.
    10-15-09 09:24 AM
  20. itsthemusic's Avatar
    First resellers=retailers
    I ask because I work for a premium retailer. No idea about this reseller thing.



    Our accessories are less expensive. Car Chargers are $19.99 not $29.99. That is the first accessory that I can think of off the top of my head. We also do BOGO on accessories when you are signing an agreement.


    There can be Ex-Cons working nearly everywhere. Not sure if this is an inside joke that I am not aware of though.


    So they wouldnt give you your $100 back that you would be getting in the mail? Which is to say that they wouldnt let you make $100 by returning the phone? Those jerks.

    Besides supporting your local community, which many people could care less about. I mean the store that I work for is on the chamber of commerc, invests the money in the local banks, and donates largely to the local high school/other non profit orgs. Keep in mind that the compnay I work for has 9 stores, and has been around since 1977. They got there start with CB/ Two way radio's growing ever since.

    It's like buying US products to support jobs in america, only on a smaller more local scale. No real benefit there


    Really? lol. I guess this is possible at some locations, but not the case at the store I work in currently.


    WOW!!! Do you like not having any options as to where purchase your phone? If Verizon didnt have competition, even if they are allowing it, they could charge a lot more then they do for a phone.

    Once again the store that I work at carries all devices except Pantech, and Nokia. We dont carry these because we cant order the parts for our tech to repair the phones.




    Wierd, in my area it is sometimes the other way around. Corp stores have tough qoutas to meet, and sometimes those qoutas cost customers. You wouldnt believe the number of people that come into our store and say they hate the corp store down the street. From high pressure sales on text/ smart phones to pushing accessories. I have had to remove vcast from enough phoens when people come in ******** that they were "forced" to take it. It hurts my numbers, but I dont have the qoutas. I cant say what I would or wouldnt do if my JOB was on the line, but I have had to deal with things that others have done.


    Every place can be good or bad, often it depends on the type of person that is helping you. Would I ever buy from WalMart no, I dont think that they have the training that I want for the questiosn I have. However, I would go to an indirect similar to the company that I work for knowing that I can walk in and talk to a person. Not having to sign into a computer with a hoep that I am signing into the correct spot. We can all walk into a corp store and have a horrible experience, and the same can be said about indirects.
    Yes, your car chargers are cheaper but what kind of warranty do they have? If someone comes to a corporate location with some cheap offbrand car charger, we cant do anything other than sell them a new one if its broke. If they bought it here (for the 10 extra dollars) they get their charger swapped out for a new one if its within the first year.

    Actually, corporate Verizon does extensive background checks and if something doesnt match up to what you put on your application or resume you wont be hired. The indirect that i worked for 4 year ago had an employee that was in prison for beating an off duty police officer with a lamp because he walked in on the cop with his girlfriend.....ok that is justifiable but still a felony none the less

    Down to your numbers being hurt by having to take off Vcast...no, your numbers wouldnt be hurt if you took off a feature, the person that added it would be getting the hit.

    I would really like to know where all these corporate locations are that are just the devil. I know some reps and even some whole stores dont exactly follow company policy(and i dont agree with it) but we have a company wide credo, not a Midwest credo.
    10-15-09 09:41 AM
  21. NVR2ND's Avatar
    Yes, your car chargers are cheaper but what kind of warranty do they have? If someone comes to a corporate location with some cheap offbrand car charger, we cant do anything other than sell them a new one if its broke. If they bought it here (for the 10 extra dollars) they get their charger swapped out for a new one if its within the first year.
    90days, and I call BS on your 1 year warranty.

    Actually, corporate Verizon does extensive background checks and if something doesnt match up to what you put on your application or resume you wont be hired. The indirect that i worked for 4 year ago had an employee that was in prison for beating an off duty police officer with a lamp because he walked in on the cop with his girlfriend.....ok that is justifiable but still a felony none the less
    So if Im selling crack to kids at the school play ground as long as I admit it on my app Im G2G?

    Down to your numbers being hurt by having to take off Vcast...no, your numbers wouldnt be hurt if you took off a feature, the person that added it would be getting the hit.


    would really like to know where all these corporate locations are that are just the devil. I know some reps and even some whole stores dont exactly follow company policy(and i dont agree with it) but we have a company wide credo, not a Midwest credo.
    Des Moines, Ia...West Des Moines, 9900 University. I spent 3 hours there one day just to have the "service tech" say that my 6700 wasnt a good phone. No ****. What do you think broght me into the store for the fourth time this month.
    10-15-09 11:41 AM
  22. gettinthere's Avatar
    90days, and I call BS on your 1 year warranty.
    It's a year. Ask any other corp rep. Replacement accessories have a 90 day. Say the charger you bought at a corp store craps out after 360 days. It's still covered under the 1 year warranty and the one we give you has an additional 90 days.
    Last edited by gettinthere; 10-15-09 at 11:53 AM.
    10-15-09 11:49 AM
  23. itsthemusic's Avatar
    90days, and I call BS on your 1 year warranty.

    Really? Get out of your little reseller and go read the packaging of any accessory at a corporate location. We dont sell your cheap retractable car chargers or the cheap cases you guys offer. Every accessory in our stores has "Limited One Year Warranty" stamped on the back. Basically meaning that as long as it didnt break due to neglect or user error, it will be swapped out.
    10-15-09 11:50 AM
  24. NVR2ND's Avatar
    Really? Get out of your little reseller and go read the packaging of any accessory at a corporate location. We dont sell your cheap retractable car chargers or the cheap cases you guys offer. Every accessory in our stores has "Limited One Year Warranty" stamped on the back. Basically meaning that as long as it didnt break due to neglect or user error, it will be swapped out.
    Oh well for ***** sake. We have the same warranty on the back of our products as well. Truth be told though that if someone comes in 300 days after purchase with an issue both companies will say that it was phyical damage.

    I was thinking no questions return or exchange.
    10-15-09 12:51 PM
  25. itsthemusic's Avatar
    Oh well for ***** sake. We have the same warranty on the back of our products as well. Truth be told though that if someone comes in 300 days after purchase with an issue both companies will say that it was phyical damage.

    I was thinking no questions return or exchange.
    As long as its not smashed, it usually is "no questions"
    10-15-09 01:08 PM
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