11-11-09 11:59 AM
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  1. beiermb's Avatar
    Yesterday I sold my Alltel 8130 to someone and I told him he should be able to activate it on Verizon's network, but he just called me back saying the store told him they couldn't do it. I'm not calling him a liar...but this IS possible, right?
    09-18-09 12:48 PM
  2. Afangrywarrior's Avatar
    Yes and No... If he already has a Verizon account he cannot activate the Alltel equipment on that account. If he has an Alltel account that was converged to the VZW Billing System he would be able to but would not get much in terms of warranty or insurance coverage.
    09-18-09 03:39 PM
  3. focusboy0383's Avatar
    Yes and No... If he already has a Verizon account he cannot activate the Alltel equipment on that account. If he has an Alltel account that was converged to the VZW Billing System he would be able to but would not get much in terms of warranty or insurance coverage.
    It is my understanding that this is inncorrect. Verizon has had an open network for about 2 years. Any CDMA device, including Alltel, should be activated.
    09-20-09 03:07 PM
  4. IDsweetcheeks's Avatar
    sorry incorrect.

    You cannot put an Alltel phone on a verizon plan
    You can have a verizon phone on an alltel plan though.



    Thanks for playing...
    09-20-09 03:16 PM
  5. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    It is my understanding that this is inncorrect. Verizon has had an open network for about 2 years. Any CDMA device, including Alltel, should be activated.
    Words from VZW higher-ups that they never intended on honoring until they had to.

    No open network until you see LTE on the phone & there is a SIM inside.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    09-20-09 11:01 PM
  6. dhyde79's Avatar
    agreed, VZW's setup is Alltel Devices on Alltel plans only (and if you weren't an alltel account before you can't have an alltel plan) and verizon equipment on verizon or alltel plans (though, now tech support is trying to pass off any trouble as "oh it's because they don't have a verizon plan")
    09-21-09 10:15 AM
  7. IDsweetcheeks's Avatar
    we are not... *looks away*
    09-21-09 10:23 AM
  8. dhyde79's Avatar
    haha, I spent 45 minutes arguing with a tech support sup who kept insisting that the issues that a customer was having was because she had a vzw curve on an alltel smartchoice plan. I finally stopped and said "ok, so, what should I expect to have happen if it's an alltel plan with vzw equipment?" he read off a list of symptoms, and I checklisted every single one of them as happening constantly on my storm on vzw plan but not on the vzcurve with alltel plan....when I pointed it out, he backpedaled pretty quick and started trying to troubleshoot....

    the generic "oh it's because of this" is the most annoying thing I've ever gotten from techs....and thankfully not too many of em do it...
    09-21-09 10:44 AM
  9. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    Alltel phones are the same technology as VZW phones & were often the same devices separated in identification only by an ESN/MEID series.

    There is zero reason an Alltel phone can't be put on a VZW line, except that VZW wants to be difficult & controlling.

    I can see getting rid of Alltel plans - they would cause market confusion & customer divisions. But different plans represent different billing codes, not different network provisioning.

    Making provisioning dependent on billing is not good for customer service. There are rumors that VZW may be taking a bit hit on customer satisfaction & churn numbers for the last half of this year.

    Alltel customers in larger areas aren't as affected, because the coverage area overlap is already good. But those areas where one was roaming on the other - in some cases it seems the roaming agreements were canceled, the service is so bad.

    VZW has complete complicity in thie - they did it & they could fix it - the reps & the techs can't - it would take a policy change. But to blame it on an Alltel phone or an Alltel plan is really stupid. It is all VZW.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    09-21-09 02:23 PM
  10. jnepsa's Avatar
    from the phone dial *22801 see if you get vzw or alltel programing *22802 see if you get vzw or alltel programing *22803 see if you get vzw or alltel programing *22804 see if you get vzw or alltel programing I am sure you get the point go all the way through to *22810 and *22800... i think it was either *22808 or 09 that got it for me.
    09-21-09 02:28 PM
  11. dhyde79's Avatar
    Alltel phones are the same technology as VZW phones & were often the same devices separated in identification only by an ESN/MEID series.
    agreed....same hardware technology, different software though...

    There is zero reason an Alltel phone can't be put on a VZW line, except that VZW wants to be difficult & controlling.
    not true....hardware should support fine, the software, however, would require either rebuilding the verizon software systems to accept alltel authentications and setting up redirects for all of the alltel services (which wouldn't work because there are still areas where alltel will still be after all of the verizon areas have been converted) OR you'd have to come up with software flashes for each and every phone alltel ever carried to have pushed to each phone out there so that they can get them able to authenticate verizon's services.

    I can see getting rid of Alltel plans - they would cause market confusion & customer divisions. But different plans represent different billing codes, not different network provisioning.
    not true, the plans dictate what systems the phones should authenticate through as well.

    Alltel customers in larger areas aren't as affected, because the coverage area overlap is already good. But those areas where one was roaming on the other - in some cases it seems the roaming agreements were canceled, the service is so bad.
    agreed, the roaming agreements that were dropped do make it tougher....we've got people on old alltel plans that're getting roaming charges because their PRL on the phone says they can roam on sprint but VZW's billing system sees sprint as roaming, nightmare bills and fighting to get it taken care of is going to be not much fun at all....
    09-21-09 03:31 PM
  12. beiermb's Avatar
    from the phone dial *22801 see if you get vzw or alltel programing *22802 see if you get vzw or alltel programing *22803 see if you get vzw or alltel programing *22804 see if you get vzw or alltel programing I am sure you get the point go all the way through to *22810 and *22800... i think it was either *22808 or 09 that got it for me.
    Not sure if I really understand your post...is this to somehow activate the device on Verizon's network?


    Thanks for the input so far, everyone, but it still seems that no one really knows for sure. Are any of you Verizon employees, by any chance?

    Thanks again!
    09-21-09 03:53 PM
  13. dhyde79's Avatar
    yep, a couple of us are.....I'm a rep that was alltel and is now vzw now...and trust me, we (the employees) feel your pain as much as you feel it.....
    09-21-09 04:07 PM
  14. jnepsa's Avatar
    Not sure if I really understand your post...is this to somehow activate the device on Verizon's network?


    Thanks for the input so far, everyone, but it still seems that no one really knows for sure. Are any of you Verizon employees, by any chance?

    Thanks again!
    ppl say they are all the time.. bad question to ask, but yes.. when you do that and you find one that says welcome to verizonwireless programming use option 3 and follow the prompts.. if you have an exsiting account
    09-21-09 04:08 PM
  15. beiermb's Avatar
    ppl say they are all the time.. bad question to ask, but yes.. when you do that and you find one that says welcome to verizonwireless programming use option 3 and follow the prompts.. if you have an exsiting account
    An existing Alltel account or Verizon account?
    09-21-09 04:13 PM
  16. jnepsa's Avatar
    An existing Alltel account or Verizon account?
    vzw.. and if it doesnt work tell him to get myverizon and change his esn and then do it again
    09-21-09 04:18 PM
  17. beiermb's Avatar
    vzw.. and if it doesnt work tell him to get myverizon and change his esn and then do it again
    Sweet, thanks! What do you mean by getting myverizon? Is that Verizon's Blackberry site? Sorry to be such a pain.
    09-21-09 04:24 PM
  18. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    agreed....same hardware technology, different software though...

    not true....hardware should support fine, the software, however, would require either rebuilding the verizon software systems to accept alltel authentications and setting up redirects for all of the alltel services (which wouldn't work because there are still areas where alltel will still be after all of the verizon areas have been converted) OR you'd have to come up with software flashes for each and every phone alltel ever carried to have pushed to each phone out there so that they can get them able to authenticate verizon's services.
    They were roaming onto each other already. The software issue would only pertain to vzw-specific features, like MyVerizon & Family Locator.

    Sprint allows it. USCell allows it. AT&T & T-Mobile allow it. VZW chooses to make it hard on customers who didn't want to be in this mess, who pay money for phone service. VZW policies are making this anything but a seamless transition.


    not true, the plans dictate what systems the phones should authenticate through as well.
    Again - see above. Native network authentication would require a batch download to accept Alltel devices. I am sure the customers could deal better with not having MyVerizon unless they have their phones reflashed.

    By the way - a reflash requires a computer. It is similar to updating the OS.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    09-21-09 04:30 PM
  19. jnepsa's Avatar
    Sweet, thanks! What do you mean by getting myverizon? Is that Verizon's Blackberry site? Sorry to be such a pain.
    no its vzw.com its like alltel website to take care of your plan and what not but on vzw you can change the esn on your line
    09-21-09 04:37 PM
  20. dhyde79's Avatar
    They were roaming onto each other already. The software issue would only pertain to vzw-specific features, like MyVerizon & Family Locator.
    and MMS, mobile web, and all the brew functions, and everything other than voice and text messaging....and for smartphones....the MIP/SIP login info is all tailored to the carrier too. at this point alltel and verizon phones are still running off of two totally separate authentication systems because the phones are set up to run to their own respective IP addresses and such....

    Sprint allows it. USCell allows it. AT&T & T-Mobile allow it. VZW chooses to make it hard on customers who didn't want to be in this mess, who pay money for phone service. VZW policies are making this anything but a seamless transition.
    I just called sprint's customer service, they won't allow me to activate an alltel blackberry curve with them if I have existing service, nor any other non-sprint device.
    AT&T and T-Mo can't stop you because it's a SIM swap, but none of the carrier specific stuff will work.
    I'd check with USC but they're not in the area and I don't have their number handy...but please, call a USCellular store, a Cellular South store, and any other carrier, ask them if another carrier's device will work properly on their network.

    I'm guessing you're not an employee are you....it's not as simple as you seem to think it is....you expect a carrier that just dropped a large sum of money to turn around and drop another decent chunk to buy software solutions to make hardware, that they aren't going to continue to support, work properly.

    Again - see above. Native network authentication would require a batch download to accept Alltel devices. I am sure the customers could deal better with not having MyVerizon unless they have their phones reflashed.
    By the way - a reflash requires a computer. It is similar to updating the OS.
    network authentication requires a batch reprogram of all alltel devices to point them at verizon's IP's and sites instead of alltel's information.....and yes, reflashing requires a computer, consider how much fun it would be trying to get EVERY SINGLE PHONE SOLD under alltel back into the store for a software flash that takes 30+ minutes to process.....
    09-21-09 06:15 PM
  21. DesertDogs's Avatar
    I'm guessing you're not an employee are you....it's not as simple as you seem to think it is....you expect a carrier that just dropped a large sum of money to turn around and drop another decent chunk to buy software solutions to make hardware, that they aren't going to continue to support, work properly.
    .
    Hah. Not an employee? That's good. If he were a rep he'd probably know about a tenth what he does know. He lives, eats and breathes phones from behind the scenes. He does it at dinner, at the park, and maybe even in the shower.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    09-21-09 09:57 PM
  22. dhyde79's Avatar
    Hah. Not an employee? That's good. If he were a rep he'd probably know about a tenth what he does know. He lives, eats and breathes phones from behind the scenes. He does it at dinner, at the park, and maybe even in the shower.
    if that's the case then why's he arguing that it's as simple as a quick tweak in the system and not thinking the customer equipment side of it? The carrier side fixes could be done as easily as he's suggesting (if cost weren't an issue or someone wanted to do it for free...which wouldn't happen) but without fixing the equipment the customer's packing around, it's not going to make any difference....
    09-21-09 10:09 PM
  23. tsguy52's Avatar
    vzw.. and if it doesnt work tell him to get myverizon and change his esn and then do it again
    It will still fail. The system will not allow a phone to be activated if it is not loaded in the DMD as a VZW device.
    09-21-09 11:16 PM
  24. tsguy52's Avatar
    if that's the case then why's he arguing that it's as simple as a quick tweak in the system and not thinking the customer equipment side of it? The carrier side fixes could be done as easily as he's suggesting (if cost weren't an issue or someone wanted to do it for free...which wouldn't happen) but without fixing the equipment the customer's packing around, it's not going to make any difference....
    I have to agree with dhyde79 here. There's a lot more to a phone than just the simple ESN swap and activation. VZW does not support any device not designed for it's network. If it were the case, then phone manufacturers would produce every handset for CDMA the same exact way.

    Alltel switches, AAA, MMS/SMS, BREW, etc.. are all there alive and kicking. These Alltel phones are using those same Alltel systems. Features built into the billing allows the provisioning of each system. If it were as easy as an ESN swap, then the phone would be able to operate on the VZW systems at any given moment. VZW is trying to get AWAY from that confusion and have everyone on VZW plans and equipment.

    You can't even change an Alltel subscriber's MDN to a VZW MDN without issues that cannot be fixed other than changing it back to the old number or another Alltel line range. It just does not work like that.

    Visual voicemail is not available to heritage Alltel customers who bought a Storm or any device compatible (even though they have a VZW plan). The voicemail platform has not been converted. Same thing with call blocking.

    Imagine if you allowed anyone to bring their phone over to VZW at any given time and tech support would have to walk the customer through a software update and complete reprogramming of their phone to make it work. This is a waste of time and is not worth it to the company. There are other customers out there with legit issues other than trying to bring over the SAME phone that they could have got, but designed for VZW. Drives up call volume and opens the door for further issues down the road. Makes no sense. So if anyone wants to buy a Blackberry - be sure it says VZW and not Alltel.
    09-21-09 11:27 PM
  25. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    if that's the case then why's he arguing that it's as simple as a quick tweak in the system and not thinking the customer equipment side of it? The carrier side fixes could be done as easily as he's suggesting (if cost weren't an issue or someone wanted to do it for free...which wouldn't happen) but without fixing the equipment the customer's packing around, it's not going to make any difference....
    For exactly the reason tsguy illustrates here.
    It will still fail. The system will not allow a phone to be activated if it is not loaded in the DMD as a VZW device.
    Load them in & it will work. Treat Alltel customers like intergalactic aliens & get millions of customers left in the cold by shoddy customer service.
    and MMS, mobile web, and all the brew functions, and everything other than voice and text messaging....and for smartphones....the MIP/SIP login info is all tailored to the carrier too. at this point alltel and verizon phones are still running off of two totally separate authentication systems because the phones are set up to run to their own respective IP addresses and such....
    Again - they own both sides. Alltel is now VZW. Yes, there are areas that had to be spun off - mainly to AT&T - yet AT&T has been switching accounts to their billing systems without all of these issues.

    It is VZW policy that dictates what is allowed on their network & what isn't.

    I just called sprint's customer service, they won't allow me to activate an alltel blackberry curve with them if I have existing service, nor any other non-sprint device.
    AT&T and T-Mo can't stop you because it's a SIM swap, but none of the carrier specific stuff will work.
    I'd check with USC but they're not in the area and I don't have their number handy...but please, call a USCellular store, a Cellular South store, and any other carrier, ask them if another carrier's device will work properly on their network.
    Interesting - because I do it all the time. There are Sprint & USCell customers running Storms & Omnias.

    Phone runs fine between the two networks - I just can't access the carrier-specific features.

    I'm guessing you're not an employee are you....it's not as simple as you seem to think it is....you expect a carrier that just dropped a large sum of money to turn around and drop another decent chunk to buy software solutions to make hardware, that they aren't going to continue to support, work properly.
    It isn't as complex as you are claiming it is.

    You're correct - I am not an employee. But my company makes your job possible. You see, we engineer & provision backhaul, switches, fiber & structures - for all telcos. We've also moved into equipment testing & certification.

    So no - I do not work for VZW - but I would wager I know more about the ins & outs than most employees do about the workings of the network.

    As for policy, I can only go by past experience (retired Bell System) & common sense.


    network authentication requires a batch reprogram of all alltel devices to point them at verizon's IP's and sites instead of alltel's information.....and yes, reflashing requires a computer, consider how much fun it would be trying to get EVERY SINGLE PHONE SOLD under alltel back into the store for a software flash that takes 30+ minutes to process.....
    Think about allowing customers with data connectivity to do their own? Or better yet, just run a data merge. They won't do that, as that would sully the VZW network.

    Or not even a data connection. Tweak the pagepool & flash the phone from a memory card.

    What did happen to that "open network" promise?

    I don't recall any huge issues like this surrounding the Qwest acquisition - 1900MHz Sprint PCS compatibility there, even. There also weren't as many with the SBC/Cingular/AT&T merger - billing, yes - but folks' service just kept on going. AT&T is still running under both Cingular & AT&T networks. They simply merged the data.

    Flashing to carrier specific software accomplishes one thing only - access to carrier-specific features. No SprintTV with a VZW ROM. No MyVerizon with a MetroPCS ROM.

    There are PRL issues, but that is simple to correct by removing the restrictions from the PRL. It is easy to do - with a little patience, one can load a VZW PRL on those Alltel phones or an Alltel PRL on a VZW phone. And, if the carrier would simply write an all-encompassing PRL, it wouldn't be needed.

    Your mention of purchasing software is kind of silly - they already have the capability. VZW engineers (employed by VZW at great expense to the company) have mentioned to me in conversation that the only think keeping all of this from happening painlessly is VZW policy & a stubborn mindset. Total time needed to get Alltel customers corrected is about 24 hours - the time needed to get the changes to propagate through the network to all systems & switches. But they need the okay from above.

    You're listening to what the VZW transition team has been feeding you because they can't trust the rank & file not to spill the beans to customers - you obviously have a lot to learn in terms of network logistics, provisioning & compatibility. If it had to be the way you & your handlers are portraying it, VZW wouldn't make a cent on intercarrier roaming agreements - because no one could roam on the VZW network without a VZW-flashed device.

    VZW's network & policies trump customer service & satisfaction everytime.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    09-21-09 11:30 PM
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