05-29-09 12:25 AM
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  1. fjl307's Avatar
    thanks...i'm thinking that it is something that IS supported, but we need to see to be sure...
    I forwarded one to your email.
    Its interesting though that sending an SMS to my phone through the chat client on Gmail doesnt work. That could be a Gmail limitation though.

    Trying Skype SMS and www.vtext.com next...
    05-28-09 12:02 AM
  2. patches152's Avatar
    according to my ninja friend deadpool if the recieving party doesn't have the languages installed, it won't work. and you need EMS sender...so i guess berries have some foreign support, but just not sending...that requires EMS...for whatever reason it can recieve them.

    i'm way confused now!!!!
    05-28-09 12:19 AM
  3. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    Hmmm interesting I can receive them. (and these are from other Verizon users, just not Blackberries)

    I was really seeing if twinsx2 knew his stuff
    I never professed to being an SMS format expert. I know how it works & the difference between SMS, MMS & EMS.

    I had to pull out my arsenal of testers to even see if it would work & how. It was sad, as I had to actually PLUG some of them in, their batteries were so dead.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    05-28-09 12:58 AM
  4. patches152's Avatar
    well my sms format expert is pretty confused also, since every carrier has something different.

    tomorrow morning we're gonna try to test the EMS capablities of my CDMA blackberry...we'll see what we get. and i think i'll throw my GSM blackberry using friend into the mix for fun, see what we come up with.

    keep posted
    05-28-09 01:11 AM
  5. Branta's Avatar
    It might be interesting to try an 'unlocked' CDMA/GSM device in both modes. Given that there is only a single SMS program in the device this should prove whether the phone software supports EMS and it is governed only by the network capability.

    If a VZW Storm or 8830WE can handle accented characters and/or >160 when it is operated on a GSM network but not on a CDMA network, that would be pretty strong circumstantial evidence.
    05-28-09 05:16 AM
  6. patches152's Avatar
    RE- the CDMA/GSM part, branta... read this thread:

    http://forums.crackberry.com/f86/att...length-236284/

    guy put an ATT SIM in an unlocked storm and got over 160 characters...essentially the function that EMS allows to send a message with >160 characters as more than one message, without having to stop typing in one to send when its full...

    and all CDMA carriers that sell the storm, 8830, or any other quad band device this will work on, not just VZW....again, it's a limitation on RIM's end, similar to how wi-fi is, they don't enable it with CDMA devices for whatever reason...
    05-28-09 09:48 AM
  7. Branta's Avatar
    and all CDMA carriers that sell the storm, 8830, or any other quad band device this will work on, not just VZW....again, it's a limitation on RIM's end, similar to how wi-fi is, they don't enable it with CDMA devices for whatever reason...
    So we already have evidence that EMS is restricted only in CDMA mode. Simple logic suggests two factors

    1. VZW is the 800# gorilla - customer for CDMA. If VZW says it wants the feature removed or the device will be rejected, then RIM will remove because it wants the business. It is unlikely to be economic to produce a different model for the other CDMA carriers with a minority share of the market so they all have to accept what VZW demands.

    2. Its the same SMS software whether the device runs in CDMA or GSM mode, and EMS compatibility is mandated by network support. I can't imagine for one moment that RIM programmers would want the extra work to lock it out unless they were required to do so by the carrier.
    05-28-09 10:38 AM
  8. patches152's Avatar
    unless they can't code EMS right for CDMA networks. the response i got from RIM reps about it like a year and a half ago just went out the window went out the window with the discussion of a storm being able to send >160 characters while in GSM...


    now the analogy of a square is a rectangle, but a rectangle isn't a square comes to mind. being able to send >160 isnt' all EMS provides...so maybe the GSM doesn't allow full EMS, just >160...

    my friends and i are testing today, we'll figure it out.
    05-28-09 10:43 AM
  9. fjl307's Avatar
    I tried sending an SMS to my crackberry using Skype and www.vtext.com. Both messages were interestingly garbled up when received on the phone. Has anybody else noticed, put of curiosity, that you can type these accented characters in Beyond160? When you actually send the message however, the letters are replaced with gibberish. Perhaps how that program works is that it copies and pastes your message from that program into separate SMS messages?

    I actually sent a message to Verizon support. Hopefully ill hear back from them. If not, I have a contact in the executive department (or whatever its called). I'm sure he'd love to hear me complain and moan about something other than the locked GPS and how he lied to me about the Storm GPS being 100 percent unlocked to 3rd party apps.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    05-28-09 11:52 AM
  10. patches152's Avatar
    off topic, and there are threads about this also, but the GPS is fully available, but the apps need to pass network certification to get access to them. aGPS is a secure function, not just something open and willy nilly to be used. becasue the apps utilize the network as well as the GPS function, they need to be approved by the carrier.
    05-28-09 11:54 AM
  11. fjl307's Avatar
    off topic, and there are threads about this also, but the GPS is fully available, but the apps need to pass network certification to get access to them. aGPS is a secure function, not just something open and willy nilly to be used. becasue the apps utilize the network as well as the GPS function, they need to be approved by the carrier.
    That's fine we went off topic for a bit...let me tell you what I understand about the Storm GPS and what I was told by VZW
    I asked this gentleman at VZW whether the Storm allowed the use of any and all 3rd party apps using the GPS, he told me yes. Apparently this is actually limited to VZNav, BB Maps and Google Maps. There is actually a thread somewhere on this site asking through a poll whether Verizon reps lied to customers about this capability or not. He also told me that future Blackberry and WM smartphones would all have this capability. Not all the 3rd party apps use data and GPS, some use just the GPS. ((example) I wanted a GPS solution that I could take into the mountains, or out of the US and use for hiking and waypoint storage, cycling, etc.
    I mentioned to this person how I live in Wyoming, and how there is very spotty service. He of course ignorantly argued that VZW has nationwide service and they cover the whole state of Wyoming. Anyways, living in Wyoming and trying to use a GPS application, say on most of the highways in this state, or in the mountains - there is no EVDO service, so VZNav will not work. He actually told he that I can save the maps and the routes so I can drive through areas with no service and still be able to navigate around. He told me the reason why VZW is not unlocking the GPS fully on the Pearls and Curves is that the cost and time to modify the OS on these older models (that they still sell 6 months after we spoke) are too much. THis gentleman was Dale Knight of the "Executive Relations Department".
    05-28-09 12:26 PM
  12. patches152's Avatar
    That's fine we went off topic for a bit...let me tell you what I understand about the Storm GPS and what I was told by VZW
    I asked this gentleman at VZW whether the Storm allowed the use of any and all 3rd party apps using the GPS, he told me yes. Apparently this is actually limited to VZNav, BB Maps and Google Maps. There is actually a thread somewhere on this site asking through a poll whether Verizon reps lied to customers about this capability or not. He also told me that future Blackberry and WM smartphones would all have this capability. Not all the 3rd party apps use data and GPS, some use just the GPS. ((example) I wanted a GPS solution that I could take into the mountains, or out of the US and use for hiking and waypoint storage, cycling, etc.
    I mentioned to this person how I live in Wyoming, and how there is very spotty service. He of course ignorantly argued that VZW has nationwide service and they cover the whole state of Wyoming. Anyways, living in Wyoming and trying to use a GPS application, say on most of the highways in this state, or in the mountains - there is no EVDO service, so VZNav will not work. He actually told he that I can save the maps and the routes so I can drive through areas with no service and still be able to navigate around. He told me the reason why VZW is not unlocking the GPS fully on the Pearls and Curves is that the cost and time to modify the OS on these older models (that they still sell 6 months after we spoke) are too much. THis gentleman was Dale Knight of the "Executive Relations Department".
    that guy doesn't know crap! lol...

    seems like he made all of that up with his own opinions, there is no fact to any of that at all!

    i'm sorry you had to deal with this, but i hope that people on CB have helped to open your eyes to the big picture...some stuff is business and money motivated, but a lot is technical, like the EMS for example. (to sort of bring it back on topic, smooth, huh? in the industry they call this the "bridge to business"...)

    we don't know why it doesn't work on CDMA devices, EMS is a direct benefit for VZW, and wi-fi also, but not for RIM. they dont' see income from sms or wi-fi use, but they don get income from data use...so it leads me to believe that there is some technical reason why we don't have this support on CDMA berries...
    05-28-09 12:38 PM
  13. fjl307's Avatar
    that guy doesn't know crap! lol...

    seems like he made all of that up with his own opinions, there is no fact to any of that at all!

    i'm sorry you had to deal with this, but i hope that people on CB have helped to open your eyes to the big picture...some stuff is business and money motivated, but a lot is technical, like the EMS for example. (to sort of bring it back on topic, smooth, huh? in the industry they call this the "bridge to business"...)

    we don't know why it doesn't work on CDMA devices, EMS is a direct benefit for VZW, and wi-fi also, but not for RIM. they dont' see income from sms or wi-fi use, but they don get income from data use...so it leads me to believe that there is some technical reason why we don't have this support on CDMA berries...
    Yes Dale Knight is an *****. I'm sure he was so sick of hearing my constant complaints to corporate, me trying to get ahold of the CEO and the FCC complaint...
    He offered me an early upgrade to the Storm last April, I just have to call him back. Due to the ATT aquistions here in Wyo however, I am waiting. Plus I am leaving the country for 6 months so I will have no need for my Crackberry for awhile...

    Yes I know much of this stuff is a money oriented ordeal. It's interesting that VZW hasn't faced this stuff in court. Evidently there is not much of a case to be built up against them. I do understand that EMS is a different ordeal. It's odd that some of thier phones support it, but a "smartphone" doesn't. Hopefully we'll hear something from VZW soon.
    05-28-09 03:40 PM
  14. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    guy put an ATT SIM in an unlocked storm and got over 160 characters...essentially the function that EMS allows to send a message with >160 characters as more than one message, without having to stop typing in one to send when its full...
    Actually, no - EMS does not split messages. It sends one large text message. When a device splits messages, that is a software adaptation that simulates EMS capabilities.

    Dare sending to a Voyager or LG VX8330 sending to an EnV2 - both on VZW - message length can be 300, 421 or 500 characters. If I recall correctly, 500 is the limit on EMS.

    A non-EMS phone sending a message may have a 160 character limit or it may split the messages, depending on setup. A non-EMS phone receiving an EMS message will see the message truncated at the 160 character mark OR it might receive multi-messages, again, depending on the setup OR the network provisioning.

    VZW dumbphones typically can do one or the other & sometimes both.

    So if the messages are being automatically split, it isn't EMS. It is more like virtual EMS.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    05-28-09 04:16 PM
  15. fjl307's Avatar
    Actually, no - EMS does not split messages. It sends one large text message. When a device splits messages, that is a software adaptation that simulates EMS capabilities.


    So if the messages are being automatically split, it isn't EMS. It is more like virtual EMS.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    That would make sense...like a virtual "copy and paste" every 160 characters. This is how Beyond160 probably works. It doesnt enable or add EMS capablity either.
    05-29-09 12:25 AM
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