02-03-10 11:25 AM
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  1. gotblackberry's Avatar
    I agree with the OP here. At best, VZW is playing a shell game with monthly RR. I went to the unlimited plan and lost my bundled BES on my old plan. I also lost my corp discount on the $69.

    I decided to revert back to my old plan and was told it was retired and no longer available. So yea, I got unlimited minutes but end up with a 10% increase in bill. And I get dinged again for limited SMS. Guess I am just a dumb sucker.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    You're allowed to change back to your old plan within 30 days of your change. Call back and ask them to put you back on your old plan.
    01-31-10 03:21 PM
  2. hal1's Avatar
    I may be a little late to the party, but I just realized something. Those complaining that the only phones not required to have the data charge are the crappy bottom of the line phones?

    WELL, HEY. IF YOU DON'T NEED DATA/TEXT/EMAIL/DATA, THEN THOSE BOTTOM PHONES WORK JUST FINE FOR YOU.
    01-31-10 03:35 PM
  3. PJnc284's Avatar
    Most of the people are going to buy the env3 and other 3G Multimedia phones for TEXTING, not data. Why require a feature that most of them won't use? Now if verizon had done the $20 min text and/or data requirement like AT&T, we probably wouldn't be having everyone whine about it as their texting package would probably cover the requirement.
    01-31-10 05:33 PM
  4. lastraid's Avatar
    Most of the people are going to buy the env3 and other 3G Multimedia phones for TEXTING, not data. Why require a feature that most of them won't use? Now if verizon had done the $20 min text and/or data requirement like AT&T, we probably wouldn't be having everyone whine about it as their texting package would probably cover the requirement.
    I would agree with you, except one point, they say they do want data and then use it anyway and whine about doing it. Most times VZW wil credit the charge. Not a good way to have to do business.
    01-31-10 05:44 PM
  5. PJnc284's Avatar
    True and that's verizon's fault for bending over and taking it just because a customer whines. I'm sure they'll still end up with people calling in who just got the 25MB package and went over.
    01-31-10 05:50 PM
  6. lastraid's Avatar
    THen they need more data. they need unlim. It is the way it is, you can fight it or go with the flow or just get device that really meets their needs.

    VZW will credit once, as long as the customer rectifies the situation and adds a data plan so it will not happen again.
    01-31-10 05:56 PM
  7. hal1's Avatar
    Most of the people are going to buy the env3 and other 3G Multimedia phones for TEXTING, not data. Why require a feature that most of them won't use? Now if verizon had done the $20 min text and/or data requirement like AT&T, we probably wouldn't be having everyone whine about it as their texting package would probably cover the requirement.
    My bad. I forgot that text is not data.
    01-31-10 06:48 PM
  8. BigDawgOfThemAll's Avatar
    The ting I'm baffled about is why would people complain about the $10 is beyond me.

    1st of all, why would u pay hundreds of dollars for a phone not to use the internet,texting ,email and other goodies it offer via data..
    Some people just buy those expensive phpones just to make calls. Better off buy a razer flip phone
    02-01-10 01:11 AM
  9. IDsweetcheeks's Avatar
    The phones they are refering to though arent hundreds of dollars if you buy them with a contract. The EnV3 is $50 with rebates and contract. They dont think they're paying that much for it. And the majority of people dont understand the incredible discount they get on a phone. When you tell them what the retail price of a phone is they wig out and tell you you're lying. Its actually funny.
    Now complaining about a blackberry or Palm needing a data plan. THATS stupid.
    I dont think my berry would be worth the $150 I paid for it if I didnt have data.
    Whats the point!
    02-01-10 08:22 AM
  10. Sparkmaster's Avatar
    The ting I'm baffled about is why would people complain about the $10 is beyond me.

    $10.00 a month more is not allot.. BUT, your Gas bill goes up $10, your Electricity bill goes up $10, Your Insurance goes up $10, Your Grocery bill goes up $10, etc etc etc.. It all adds up..

    Now before you know it, your monthly living expense just went up $100.00 ++. So now do you understand why some people are complaining???
    02-01-10 11:16 AM
  11. Super_Mario's Avatar
    $10.00 a month more is not allot.. BUT, your Gas bill goes up $10, your Electricity bill goes up $10, Your Insurance goes up $10, Your Grocery bill goes up $10, etc etc etc.. It all adds up..

    Now before you know it, your monthly living expense just went up $100.00 ++. So now do you understand why some people are complaining???
    Thats a valid point, but then why get a new phone, if expenses do not allow it?
    02-01-10 11:44 AM
  12. jetman1287's Avatar
    Thats a valid point, but then why get a new phone, if expenses do not allow it?
    Exactly! I can imagine less going for the 3G-capable phones then.

    But while we're talking about phone/data costs, here's another sketchy pricing issue: We are told by all the carriers that the contract helps subsidize the cost of the phone, allowing you to get a $600 BB around $200. BUT -

    If you buy the phone at $600 retail, you still have to pay the full data plan cost! Why can't the data plan be $20/month (or whatever it comes out to) since you really aren't subsidizing anything? If you pay retail, it's basically $400 extra over 2 years going to VZW for...for nothing!
    02-01-10 12:54 PM
  13. Super_Mario's Avatar
    Exactly! I can imagine less going for the 3G-capable phones then.

    But while we're talking about phone/data costs, here's another sketchy pricing issue: We are told by all the carriers that the contract helps subsidize the cost of the phone, allowing you to get a $600 BB around $200. BUT -

    If you buy the phone at $600 retail, you still have to pay the full data plan cost! Why can't the data plan be $20/month (or whatever it comes out to) since you really aren't subsidizing anything? If you pay retail, it's basically $400 extra over 2 years going to VZW for...for nothing!
    They're just subsidizing the equipment, not the service. Because VZW, or any carrier, do not make money from producing and selling phones, they make money selling wireless service, that's why they wouldn't lower the price of the plans.
    02-01-10 01:19 PM
  14. jetman1287's Avatar
    They're just subsidizing the equipment, not the service. Because VZW, or any carrier, do not make money from producing and selling phones, they make money selling wireless service, that's why they wouldn't lower the price of the plans.
    I don't have the numbers but they probably do make money from selling the phone. If RIM sells a new BB to VZW for $500, you're telling me they sell it for $500 retail in the store? MOST of the money comes from the plans but they are making something on those phones.

    You're using the data plan to subsidize the phone, but what if there is no phone to subsidize since you bought it full retail?
    02-01-10 02:51 PM
  15. vatothe0's Avatar
    I don't have the numbers but they probably do make money from selling the phone. If RIM sells a new BB to VZW for $500, you're telling me they sell it for $500 retail in the store? MOST of the money comes from the plans but they are making something on those phones.

    You're using the data plan to subsidize the phone, but what if there is no phone to subsidize since you bought it full retail?
    Verizon's full retail is probably less than 10% over cost. Shop around and see if you can find a full price phone for less from a reputable source.

    If you aren't familiar with retailing, 10% margin is almost worthless.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    02-01-10 02:59 PM
  16. snork's Avatar
    Thats a valid point, but then why get a new phone, if expenses do not allow it?
    Because the monthly fee costs alot more than a one time fee for a phone.

    You can buy yourself a Samsung Intensity for $20 or you can buy say an LG EnV3 (much nicer phone imo) for $50, a whopping $30 more. Oh wait, that person can no longer afford to 'splurge' on a nicer phone because they are also required to get a data plan, so that $30 upgrade is now a $270 upgrade, regardless of whether they actually use data or not.

    It's total crap. Yes, Verizon is a business and they are out to make money, but shoving things in like data plans for people who just want a nice phone to talk and text on is flat out robbery. We'll see how long things stick, I hope everyone who is unhappy with these changes voices their opinions though. If everyone is quiet and just whines about it to each other, Verizon and other companies will just smile as they collect your money.
    02-01-10 03:48 PM
  17. Super_Mario's Avatar
    Because the monthly fee costs alot more than a one time fee for a phone.

    You can buy yourself a Samsung Intensity for $20 or you can buy say an LG EnV3 (much nicer phone imo) for $50, a whopping $30 more. Oh wait, that person can no longer afford to 'splurge' on a nicer phone because they are also required to get a data plan, so that $30 upgrade is now a $270 upgrade, regardless of whether they actually use data or not.

    It's total crap. Yes, Verizon is a business and they are out to make money, but shoving things in like data plans for people who just want a nice phone to talk and text on is flat out robbery. We'll see how long things stick, I hope everyone who is unhappy with these changes voices their opinions though. If everyone is quiet and just whines about it to each other, Verizon and other companies will just smile as they collect your money.
    I do not support that they require the data plans on certain phones, but I can attest to why. I have seen, on numerous occasions, people calling or e-mailing about data charges on their kids phone (enV 3, Alias 2 etc) and they want credits ALL THE TIME. There is no responsibility taken that the data was used and that you should pay for it. With the data plans, you get 25 MB's for 10.00, instead of 49.75 with pay as you go for 25 MB's. Big difference. At the same time, there is no choice between if you want a data plan or not and that is why people are upset IMO. There is a big enough out cry though from the customers, though. I just don't know if they will budge. According to the financial forecast they discussed, money is in data and data products now. Would you get rid of a money maker?
    02-01-10 07:13 PM
  18. Super_Mario's Avatar
    I don't have the numbers but they probably do make money from selling the phone. If RIM sells a new BB to VZW for $500, you're telling me they sell it for $500 retail in the store? MOST of the money comes from the plans but they are making something on those phones.

    You're using the data plan to subsidize the phone, but what if there is no phone to subsidize since you bought it full retail?
    The profit is minimal at best. With minimal profit and money loss towards extra discounts on phones, Multi-frus and warranty, they may break even there.
    02-01-10 07:14 PM
  19. jetman1287's Avatar
    That doesn't solve why they still overprice data for retail buyers. Most people buy it with the 2-yr contract...so you get it for say $200 instead of $600. VZW loses $400 on the phone and makes it up over 2 years. That comes out to $16 a month you have to pay to subsidize the phone.

    But if you buy it full retail at $600, why doesn't that $16 come off that monthly bill, since you're no longer subsidizing anything?


    Yes customers are stupid...maybe VZW should have a pop-up that says "you've used this much MB, don't go over" or "using this feature will consume data charges" instead of the kids playing around and unknowingly using data...or ask customers when they are buying the phones if they want data usage blocked...instead of not informing and hoping the per-MB charges fly in by accident...
    Last edited by jetman1287; 02-01-10 at 08:32 PM.
    02-01-10 08:29 PM
  20. jetman1287's Avatar
    Because the monthly fee costs alot more than a one time fee for a phone.

    You can buy yourself a Samsung Intensity for $20 or you can buy say an LG EnV3 (much nicer phone imo) for $50, a whopping $30 more. Oh wait, that person can no longer afford to 'splurge' on a nicer phone because they are also required to get a data plan, so that $30 upgrade is now a $270 upgrade, regardless of whether they actually use data or not.

    It's total crap. Yes, Verizon is a business and they are out to make money, but shoving things in like data plans for people who just want a nice phone to talk and text on is flat out robbery. We'll see how long things stick, I hope everyone who is unhappy with these changes voices their opinions though. If everyone is quiet and just whines about it to each other, Verizon and other companies will just smile as they collect your money.
    Not even whine to each other - people will DEFEND vzw for doing this! Maybe it's because we're on a phone forum, lol.
    02-01-10 08:30 PM
  21. Mark_Venture's Avatar
    I do not support that they require the data plans on certain phones, but I can attest to why. I have seen, on numerous occasions, people calling or e-mailing about data charges on their kids phone (enV 3, Alias 2 etc) and they want credits ALL THE TIME. There is no responsibility taken that the data was used and that you should pay for it. ...
    And who's fault is that?

    When I went into a VZW store last spring with my parents (who were on ACII plans looking to upgrade their phones), at no time was the cost of DATA even discussed by the VZW rep when they convinced my parents to switch to a NationWide plan. (I called and asked about the data block when I saw the $1.99 charges for .01 MB on their lines!)

    A few months ago, my friend went into a VZW store to upgrade his phone. Again, no mention of data costs was made by the rep and he was switched to a Nationwide plan. *I* told my friend about it after he called me to tell me of his new phone purchase. He quickly subscribed to the $15 vcast vpack for unlimited data.

    VZW brought this on themselves with the Nationwide plans and billing $1.99 per mb 24x7, instead of sticking with America's Choice which billed data as "calling minutes." (so nights/weekends were "free" for most), and not fully explaining the data costs to customers.

    Simple fixes...

    1. VZW sales people offer discuss DATA rates for these phones, suggest data plans, or offer FULL DATA Block when selling the phone, at least to parents, letting them know that they or their kids could run up high data bills if they don't subscribe to a plan, or block the data.

    2. VZW adds a "pop-up" screen to their phones when accessing the web that states using this feature will cost $$ if you do not subscribe to an unlimited data plan. Require the user to answer YES to proceed. If the user pressed YES, then they should be held accountable for the costs.

    To go from a $15 vcast vpack (covered unlimited data as well as viewing Vcast Videos), to a $30 unlimited data plan for "FEATURE PHONES" is ridiculous, especially if a reason is because parents are asking for credits due to their kids using the data features.
    02-02-10 04:44 PM
  22. ComfortablyNumb's Avatar
    Simple fixes...

    1. VZW sales people offer discuss DATA rates for these phones, suggest data plans, or offer FULL DATA Block when selling the phone, at least to parents, letting them know that they or their kids could run up high data bills if they don't subscribe to a plan, or block the data.

    2. VZW adds a "pop-up" screen to their phones when accessing the web that states using this feature will cost $$ if you do not subscribe to an unlimited data plan. Require the user to answer YES to proceed. If the user pressed YES, then they should be held accountable for the costs.

    To go from a $15 vcast vpack (covered unlimited data as well as viewing Vcast Videos), to a $30 unlimited data plan for "FEATURE PHONES" is ridiculous, especially if a reason is because parents are asking for credits due to their kids using the data features.
    1. They will HAVE to discuss data plans now that the data plans are required for multimedia phones.

    2. People don't get charged for "accidentally" opening up the web, but they get charged for broswing it. Why would you just assume that you get mobile web for free from any carrier- not just verizon?

    And if a $30 unlimited data plan is ridiculous then go to the $9.99/ 25mb data plan and deal with the overages when you get them... Or do you propose that verizon send you a message to tell you that if you go over the data limit you have to pay for overages? That should go without saying.
    02-02-10 05:10 PM
  23. lastraid's Avatar
    1. They will HAVE to discuss data plans now that the data plans are required for multimedia phones.

    2. People don't get charged for "accidentally" opening up the web, but they get charged for broswing it. Why would you just assume that you get mobile web for free from any carrier- not just verizon?

    And if a $30 unlimited data plan is ridiculous then go to the $9.99/ 25mb data plan and deal with the overages when you get them... Or do you propose that verizon send you a message to tell you that if you go over the data limit you have to pay for overages? That should go without saying.
    As you know VZW will not send this message, but there are several ways to monitor for yourself and not depend on celco like some do the federal govt.

    #data - FREE sms to your device with the amount of data you have used.

    Login to your online account - same info can be seen here.

    There are way to monitor what one does. Do not depend on others to run or protect you from life.
    02-02-10 05:48 PM
  24. tech_head's Avatar
    Data should not be required.
    Reps can discuss options when you walk in.
    If you don't want data, they block it. They tell you PIC messaging won't work.
    End of story.
    02-02-10 07:41 PM
  25. jetman1287's Avatar
    And who's fault is that?

    When I went into a VZW store last spring with my parents (who were on ACII plans looking to upgrade their phones), at no time was the cost of DATA even discussed by the VZW rep when they convinced my parents to switch to a NationWide plan. (I called and asked about the data block when I saw the $1.99 charges for .01 MB on their lines!)

    A few months ago, my friend went into a VZW store to upgrade his phone. Again, no mention of data costs was made by the rep and he was switched to a Nationwide plan. *I* told my friend about it after he called me to tell me of his new phone purchase. He quickly subscribed to the $15 vcast vpack for unlimited data.

    VZW brought this on themselves with the Nationwide plans and billing $1.99 per mb 24x7, instead of sticking with America's Choice which billed data as "calling minutes." (so nights/weekends were "free" for most), and not fully explaining the data costs to customers.

    Simple fixes...

    1. VZW sales people offer discuss DATA rates for these phones, suggest data plans, or offer FULL DATA Block when selling the phone, at least to parents, letting them know that they or their kids could run up high data bills if they don't subscribe to a plan, or block the data.

    2. VZW adds a "pop-up" screen to their phones when accessing the web that states using this feature will cost $$ if you do not subscribe to an unlimited data plan. Require the user to answer YES to proceed. If the user pressed YES, then they should be held accountable for the costs.

    To go from a $15 vcast vpack (covered unlimited data as well as viewing Vcast Videos), to a $30 unlimited data plan for "FEATURE PHONES" is ridiculous, especially if a reason is because parents are asking for credits due to their kids using the data features.
    +1. Customers are stupid but VZW should have been prepared.
    02-02-10 11:09 PM
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