12-15-09 08:42 PM
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  1. ekyle125's Avatar
    There are sites out there to tell you how to get out of your ETF whenever you want. Anytime you get something from VZW saying they're changing this or that, contract breach, not what you signed for. Drop 'em. I haven't had to pay an ETF since I left shi**y Cingular years back. So unless you drop contracts often I don't see how this affects people too much..?
    11-05-09 06:35 AM
  2. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    There are sites out there to tell you how to get out of your ETF whenever you want. Anytime you get something from VZW saying they're changing this or that, contract breach, not what you signed for. Drop 'em. I haven't had to pay an ETF since I left shi**y Cingular years back. So unless you drop contracts often I don't see how this affects people too much..?
    Have you thoroughly checked the accuracy of what these sites write? The carriers have gotten wise & ETFs don't get waived these days.

    The sites you refer to are along the lines of Acorn/Community Organizer tactics - convince people they have problems they didn't know they had, then rile them up to demand change.

    Nothing good ever comes from a scam, fabricating trouble or community organizers.
    11-05-09 08:14 AM
  3. thinkamp's Avatar
    Nope, i could care less what you do. Your way of thinking is ridiculous, thats all. Ive always known BnB was a troll....I gave you the benefit of a doubt with that Obama avatar, guess i was wrong.
    My way of thinking is ridiculous? No I think not...I think that you need to take a better look at the whole picture here mister. In the previous post I told you that I am tried of paying out the azz for service that I can go to another network for cheaper. VZW has me for one more year because I made a commitment to them and I'm not going to pay an ETF no matter how cheap or expensive it is.
    &what are you talking about you gave me the benefit of the doubt with my Obama avatar? Uh anyone with eyes can tell I'm a Nobama momma! Get your eyes checked please!

    I dont live/sleep/eat anything. I work here, thats it. I was speaking realistically. The person i quoted only mentioned that he was crying about a new ETF policy, not that he was unhappy with the service or anything else. Therefore, his way of thinking was not a logical way to think.
    First of this "he" is a frickin' girl, so before you start bashing me can you please get my gender right? Thanks. Now as for me crying about the ETF, that is not the case...you think an ETF would be the only reason a person would leave their cell phone provider? I think not, as I had already stated not once, not twice, but three times now I AM TIRED OF PAYING OUT THE AZZ FOR SERVICE THAT I CAN GET ELSEWHERE! Now I hope you understand and can move on!
    Last edited by thinkamp; 11-05-09 at 09:00 AM.
    11-05-09 08:56 AM
  4. Darthkuriboh's Avatar
    Have fun dropping calls

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    11-05-09 11:27 AM
  5. thinkamp's Avatar
    Have fun dropping calls

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Darth just because I want to switch doesn't mean I haven't dropped calls with VZW the all mighty. Sadly I have dropped many many calls with vzw so...I'll take dropping calls as I already have to save some money...times are tough and some people as myself cannot pay $100+ a month for a phone on top of all my other bills. Paying my car is a little more important than dropping a couple phone calls a week. My phone won't get me from point A to point B.

    hmm seems like another one that breaths, eats and sleeps for vzw.
    11-05-09 11:34 AM
  6. Darthkuriboh's Avatar
    Nahh. Just figured I'd be the obligatory naysayer.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    11-05-09 11:35 AM
  7. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    Darth just because I want to switch doesn't mean I haven't dropped calls with VZW the all mighty. Sadly I have dropped many many calls with vzw so...I'll take dropping calls as I already have to save some money...times are tough and some people as myself cannot pay $100+ a month for a phone on top of all my other bills. Paying my car is a little more important than dropping a couple phone calls a week. My phone won't get me from point A to point B.

    hmm seems like another one that breaths, eats and sleeps for vzw.
    May I suggest Sprint? That way you can still call me for free.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    11-05-09 11:46 AM
  8. thinkamp's Avatar
    May I suggest Sprint? That way you can still call me for free.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Haha I was already thinking about moving to sprint. I still have a little under a year with vzw...so I'm waiting it out to see if anything changes in the future.
    11-05-09 11:48 AM
  9. Darthkuriboh's Avatar
    Thinkamp,

    Look at my last post and don't be so quick to jump

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    11-05-09 11:54 AM
  10. generic username's Avatar
    It turns out there has been a large scheme going on for some time now where people are activating an account, and terminating the next day without returning the equipment which makes you subject to the $175 ETF.
    I am a government attorney who prosecutes civil and criminal wrongdoing. The conduct you describe doesn't sound like a scheme to me. It sounds like some people have been aggressive in pursuing a capitalist opporunity that does not to my knowledge violate VZ's rules. If you mean "scheme" loosely, that's one matter. However, if you mean scheme as a term of art, I disagree with you.
    11-05-09 11:57 AM
  11. Darthkuriboh's Avatar
    It falls under "theft." If you really were an attorney you'd realize that taking something without paying the whole amount for it is theft.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    11-05-09 12:00 PM
  12. generic username's Avatar
    It falls under "theft." If you really were an attorney you'd realize that taking something without paying the whole amount for it is theft.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    The law often does not accord with some people's sense of morality. Let's begin with the assumption that the customer pays in full for the phone itself upon commencement of service.

    Please show me a staute that defines this bahavior as theft.

    I promise I'm not a "know-it-all" pompous attorney. I'm open minded to your arguments, but I'm doubtful that this behavior violates a criminal or civil offense.
    11-05-09 12:05 PM
  13. Darthkuriboh's Avatar
    IF the customer pays in full (full retail) they are not under contract. once they accept a subsidy then they owe VZW that amount, which is paid during contract.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    11-05-09 12:25 PM
  14. BoNg420's Avatar
    Don't know if this has been asked or mentioned, but will verizon be applying this change to existing accounts or only new accounts, maybe if they applied it to all accounts even existing it could be a way out of contract with no ETF.
    11-05-09 12:31 PM
  15. Darthkuriboh's Avatar
    For the 93rd time it'll be NEW contracts as of 11/15

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    11-05-09 12:34 PM
  16. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    Let's begin with the assumption that the customer pays in full for the phone itself upon commencement of service.
    Let's make that assumption - pay full price for phone - now no contract is required. No contract means no ETF.

    Please show me a staute that defines this bahavior as theft.
    If we were talking statutes, we'd be hearing of a prosecutorial path taken by the carriers. Instead, we are looking at a contractural discouragement.

    but I'm doubtful that this behavior violates a criminal or civil offense.
    Again, who said anything about criminal codes or statutes?
    11-05-09 12:44 PM
  17. dawnierae's Avatar
    Well folks, this is where all your little schemes to upgrade to the latest and greatest phone get you. Unfortunately, you take the rest of us who wait out our contract to upgrade right along with you. Thanks a heap.
    11-05-09 12:45 PM
  18. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    well folks, this is where all your little schemes to upgrade to the latest and greatest phone get you. Unfortunately, you take the rest of us who wait out our contract to upgrade right along with you. Thanks a heap.
    + 1
    11-05-09 12:47 PM
  19. thinkamp's Avatar
    ^^^+1^^^
    10char
    11-05-09 12:48 PM
  20. dawnierae's Avatar
    I am a government attorney who prosecutes civil and criminal wrongdoing. The conduct you describe doesn't sound like a scheme to me. It sounds like some people have been aggressive in pursuing a capitalist opporunity that does not to my knowledge violate VZ's rules. If you mean "scheme" loosely, that's one matter. However, if you mean scheme as a term of art, I disagree with you.
    People who sue corporate entities for millions of dollars because of extremely minor injuries that happened on that entity's property (that in many cases were the result of their own stupidity) could also be called "aggressively pursuing a capitalist opportunity" as well. Doesn't make it right. These so called "capitalist opportunities" are what costs EVERYONE in the long run. Perhaps it will end when they stop letting criminals into law school. (No offense to any lawyers out there...I know better than to let a few bad apples spoil the bunch.)
    11-05-09 01:03 PM
  21. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    People who sue corporate entities for millions of dollars because of extremely minor injuries that happened on that entity's property (that in many cases were the result of their own stupidity) could also be called "aggressively pursuing a capitalist opportunity" as well. Doesn't make it right. These so called "capitalist opportunities" are what costs EVERYONE in the long run. Perhaps it will end when they stop letting criminals into law school. (No offense to any lawyers out there...I know better than to let a few bad apples spoil the bunch.)
    With this in mind, any rational soul would do well to remember this:

    Just because you can do it, doesn't necessarily make it right to do it.

    VZW is simply making it harder to rip them off.

    Posted from a CrapBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    11-05-09 01:09 PM
  22. generic username's Avatar
    Let's make that assumption - pay full price for phone - now no contract is required. No contract means no ETF.


    If we were talking statutes, we'd be hearing of a prosecutorial path taken by the carriers. Instead, we are looking at a contractural discouragement.



    Again, who said anything about criminal codes or statutes?
    1. Paying in full for a phone is not the same thing as paying full price for a phone. My comment contemplates paying for a phone in full for whatever price in a manner that does not leave a balance owed for the device itself.

    2. My comment regarding criminal codes or statutes reflects my earlier comment regarding whether the OP uses the term "scheme" loosely or whether the OP uses "scheme" as a term of art. If used as a term of art, in my occupation, that involves criminal or civil violations of law.

    3. If we are focusing only on contractual language, please point me to contract language that would characterize this behavior as a scheme rather than a mere breach of contract or behavior allowed under the contract with associated termination fees.
    11-05-09 01:31 PM
  23. sjsjr's Avatar
    Call it what you want. A scheme, a plan, a thought put into motion, etc. The word scheme may mean something different in a courtroom then it does on a football field but it is still someones scheme to make money. Obviously it was not criminal in terms of the law or VZW would have sued these people. However being that they could not they have changed their policy to stop people from making money on the loop hole they were exploiting.
    11-05-09 01:36 PM
  24. generic username's Avatar
    People who sue corporate entities for millions of dollars because of extremely minor injuries that happened on that entity's property (that in many cases were the result of their own stupidity) could also be called "aggressively pursuing a capitalist opportunity" as well. Doesn't make it right. These so called "capitalist opportunities" are what costs EVERYONE in the long run. Perhaps it will end when they stop letting criminals into law school. (No offense to any lawyers out there...I know better than to let a few bad apples spoil the bunch.)
    I understand where you're coming from. Most of my legal work for the government is in the interests of consumers. I don't like it when some consumers "get over" in a way that results in other consumers suffering the ripple effect consequences.

    However, I am also sensitive to certain kinds of alleged wrongdoing being mislabeled or characterized. Bernie Madoff was guilty of a "scheme." There are many true schemes that are unlawful. My point is that I doubt that the behavior we're discussing arises to an unlawful scheme and I think it's worth pointing out the distinction between an unlawful scheme and the kind of scheme that people discuss loosely.

    I don't take offense to your comments regarding letting criminals into law school. I realize that you're intelligent enought to know that criminal minded people are also members of the police, the medical profession, and the school systems, to name a short list.
    11-05-09 01:44 PM
  25. generic username's Avatar
    Call it what you want. A scheme, a plan, a thought put into motion, etc. The word scheme may mean something different in a courtroom then it does on a football field but it is still someones scheme to make money. Obviously it was not criminal in terms of the law or VZW would have sued these people. However being that they could not they have changed their policy to stop people from making money on the loop hole they were exploiting.
    Well said.
    11-05-09 01:47 PM
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