12-15-09 07:42 PM
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  1. Afangrywarrior's Avatar
    Starting on Nov 15th, Verizon Wireless will be changing their Early Termination Policy. It will no longer be a 175$ ETF across the board. It will now depend on your device. Normal cell phones (Voyager, Alias, EnV 3) will be 175$ and will be lowered for every month completed as has been for a while now. The MAJOR difference is Advanced Devices. ANY PDA (Blackberry, WinMo, Palm, Droid) phone that has a Data plan of $29.99 per month or higher purchased on or after 11/15 will have an early Termination Fee of $350.

    It makes sense to me. It turns out there has been a large scheme going on for some time now where people are activating an account, and terminating the next day without returning the equipment which makes you subject to the $175 ETF. So lets say you get a FREE blackberry from Verizon Wieless, pay the $175 ETF. Then you go onto Ebay or Craigslist and sell that Blackberry for $300... You just pocketed $125 off Verizon Wireless. Well some people have been making a living off of this scheme on Ebay and Craigslist to the point where Big Red has noticed on a large scale and taking a hit at the bottom line.

    So thanks to all those who messed it up for the rest of us who now have $350 ETF the next time we upgrade. I'm surprised it didnt go into effect on Nov 6th when the Droid rolls out....
    11-02-09 09:54 PM
  2. lastraid's Avatar
    Will the $350 continue to drop per month like current?
    11-02-09 09:58 PM
  3. Rwil85's Avatar
    Starting on Nov 15th, Verizon Wireless will be changing their Early Termination Policy. It will no longer be a 175$ ETF across the board. It will now depend on your device. Normal cell phones (Voyager, Alias, EnV 3) will be 175$ and will be lowered for every month completed as has been for a while now. The MAJOR difference is Advanced Devices. ANY PDA (Blackberry, WinMo, Palm, Droid) phone that has a Data plan of $29.99 per month or higher purchased on or after 11/15 will have an early Termination Fee of $350.

    It makes sense to me. It turns out there has been a large scheme going on for some time now where people are activating an account, and terminating the next day without returning the equipment which makes you subject to the $175 ETF. So lets say you get a FREE blackberry from Verizon Wieless, pay the $175 ETF. Then you go onto Ebay or Craigslist and sell that Blackberry for $300... You just pocketed $125 off Verizon Wireless. Well some people have been making a living off of this scheme on Ebay and Craigslist to the point where Big Red has noticed on a large scale and taking a hit at the bottom line.

    So thanks to all those who messed it up for the rest of us who now have $350 ETF the next time we upgrade. I'm surprised it didnt go into effect on Nov 6th when the Droid rolls out....
    wouldnt you also be responsible for the equipment cost also, same as with an insurance replacement or phone switch?

    i think people have been eating the $175 cancellation fee, in order to open a new acct and get the dicount price on a New BB..pay whats left of the ETf on your acct, and then pay the activation and get the discount price (i.e. the Tour for $149.99) - which beats the **** out of paying retail..the higher ETF will force people to either pay the $350 or pay retail for new devices - so now, either way - vzw is getting big $$$.
    Last edited by RHP23; 11-02-09 at 10:01 PM.
    11-02-09 09:58 PM
  4. RicanMedic78's Avatar
    that sucks! they should of done it where you have to give back the device if you don't make it the full 2 years! In theory, if your discount is not paid for, then its not yours fully yet. That would of made much more sense. $350 ETF is rediculous!

    I understand the problem they are having, but there are clearly other ways to deal with that problem.
    11-02-09 09:59 PM
  5. Afangrywarrior's Avatar
    Yes it will drop by $10 per month until the end of the Contract. They are doing this to prevent people from scheming, but also plan to lower advanced device costs upfront to the end user when they purchase or upgrade.
    11-02-09 10:01 PM
  6. RicanMedic78's Avatar
    that makes sense... the storm 2 can cost an average person $179 + maybe $50 or $100 for an every 1 or 2 discount making the device cost as low as $79 bucks. Try getting a bold from AT&T for $79 EVEN TODAY!
    11-02-09 10:07 PM
  7. Riders On The Storm's Avatar
    Does this count as materially changing the contract?
    11-02-09 10:19 PM
  8. Polychrome's Avatar
    Hadn't heard this one, but if it's true I can't say I'm surprised. They've been trying for awhile to weed out the "wrong" customers for smartphones, to scare 'em off to a Versa or Dare before they even think of signing up for something they either can't handle or don't understand.

    Trying to scare off people who may attempt to "cheat" the system makes sense as an extra step.

    Does this count as materially changing the contract?
    They have to change existing contracts for this to happen.
    11-02-09 10:21 PM
  9. Riders On The Storm's Avatar
    They have to change existing contracts for this to happen.
    Has anyone heard if it's retroactive?
    11-02-09 10:23 PM
  10. Rwil85's Avatar
    Hadn't heard this one, but if it's true I can't say I'm surprised. They've been trying for awhile to weed out the "wrong" customers for smartphones, to scare 'em off to a Versa or Dare before they even think of signing up for something they either can't handle or don't understand.

    Trying to scare off people who may attempt to "cheat" the system makes sense as an extra step.



    They have to change existing contracts for this to happen.
    Verizon would NOT scare anyone away from paying an extra $30 a month, i don't care who they are.
    11-02-09 10:29 PM
  11. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    Has anyone heard if it's retroactive?
    It is only on new contracts.

    Remember folks - the WFG is unchanged. Don't like it in 30 days, return it.
    11-02-09 11:39 PM
  12. Super_Mario's Avatar
    Does this count as materially changing the contract?
    Thhis would be on new contracts or upgrades in which you accept the terms. You will be in current terms until you upgrade.
    11-02-09 11:42 PM
  13. gotblackberry's Avatar
    Link?

    10char
    11-02-09 11:44 PM
  14. bubbarob1978's Avatar
    Yes it will drop by $10 per month until the end of the Contract. They are doing this to prevent people from scheming, but also plan to lower advanced device costs upfront to the end user when they purchase or upgrade.
    I hope they do lower the upfront costs of the devices, otherwise they are only punishing the people who are not scheming. I would be ok paying a $350 ETF **IF** I only had to pay $99 for a new smartphone. I would think sales of smartphones would skyrocket if they lowered the prices down. Plus big red will have accomplished locking in all those people to a contract and ETF of $350.

    Interesting....
    11-02-09 11:52 PM
  15. Fried Rice Mofo's Avatar
    Wow, seeing nothing about this..

    Of course, I don't work for Big Red anymore but WB still does and judging by his response, he hasn't seen anything in email or InfoManager..

    I do think $350 is a little steep, but I see the reaonong behind it. To me, $150 for dumb phones, $200 for moderate phones like the enV Touch, and $250 for smartphones would make the most sense.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    11-03-09 12:03 AM
  16. snowgimp's Avatar
    For reference:

    Best Buy Cellular Solutions-: Device Details

    "Original price" on a Storm 2...599.99. Discount pricing 179.99. Savings ALREADY upfront of 420. If I were to purchase and put it on a 450 min plan with BIS that'd be 69.98 VZW would get out of me a month. On a standard plan it's 39.99 a difference of 29.99 per month. After my 20 months with a standard upgrade thats a 599.80 dollar difference. Which means for 20 months between my minutes and ALL my data I'd pay 179.80 after what VZW had eaten for the phone I bought. I don't think pricing on smartphones will go down as a result of this...it just sounds like sound business. Especially after all the blogs/forum posts about being taking advantage of BOGO offers getting a 600 dollar retail phone, paying the ETF and profiting 400 dollars on ebay.
    11-03-09 12:04 AM
  17. RicanMedic78's Avatar
    For reference:

    Best Buy Cellular Solutions-: Device Details

    "Original price" on a Storm 2...599.99. Discount pricing 179.99. Savings ALREADY upfront of 420. If I were to purchase and put it on a 450 min plan with BIS that'd be 69.98 VZW would get out of me a month. On a standard plan it's 39.99 a difference of 29.99 per month. After my 20 months with a standard upgrade thats a 599.80 dollar difference. Which means for 20 months between my minutes and ALL my data I'd pay 179.80 after what VZW had eaten for the phone I bought. I don't think pricing on smartphones will go down as a result of this...it just sounds like sound business. Especially after all the blogs/forum posts about being taking advantage of BOGO offers getting a 600 dollar retail phone, paying the ETF and profiting 400 dollars on ebay.
    to be fair... verizon doesn't buy its Storms for $599.99 a piece... lol

    u make a good point, but remember, their business is not about selling devices. Its about selling service... Sure they can make 599.99 on a device. But that's nothing compared to a continued relationship with a customer on a voice and data plan for years at a time
    11-03-09 12:21 AM
  18. snowgimp's Avatar
    to be fair... verizon doesn't buy its Storms for $599.99 a piece... lol

    u make a good point, but remember, their business is not about selling devices. Its about selling service... Sure they can make 599.99 on a device. But that's nothing compared to a continued relationship with a customer on a voice and data plan for years at a time
    Agreed on both points. But what Verizon pays for a device IS NOT 179.99. My point, they are eating some of that price for paying manufacturers with the assumption they will be having a service agreement with you for a period of time and the amount your plan will be for the period of time. From a business perspective discounting a an LG5500 from 200 *MFG suggested retail*to 19.99 for a 39.99 service agreement with 175 if you were to terminate early and discounting a 599 *MFG suggested retail* to 179.99 with the SAME ETF to compensate for the subsidy doesn't make much sense either. For upgrades and customer experience, I whole heartily agree on the second point about subsidizing a phone based of business decisions to retain a customer. However, people take advantage, and it sucks but the bad people ruin it for the good people in EVERY single aspect of life.
    11-03-09 12:27 AM
  19. RicanMedic78's Avatar
    Trust me, I know! Come out on EMS runs with me for a day! It def dont look like paramedics on discovery health, lol. How about your child needing a check up so mom would rather call 911 to get her kid to the ER and get a free medicaid paid ambulance rather than to pay a yellow cab to ferry to u a private doctor... which she has insurance for anyway!

    That free red/blue lighted cab makes all the difference...
    11-03-09 12:41 AM
  20. snowgimp's Avatar
    Trust me, I know! Come out on EMS runs with me for a day! It def dont look like paramedics on discovery health, lol. How about your child needing a check up so mom would rather call 911 to get her kid to th ER and get a free medicaid paid ambulance rather than to pay a yellow cab to ferry to u a private doctor... which she has insurance for anyway! That free red/blue lighted cab makes all the difference...
    That...makes...me...want...to...vomit. Get the paddles. "Oh no, we thought she was crashing we had to give her the juice, that white streak in her hair might go away eventually".
    11-03-09 12:43 AM
  21. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    Before anyone wigs out on all of this, remember that our Canadian friends have it worse...

    Bell Mobility

    You understand that if you have received promotional consideration, including a reduction or rebate on the price of your Device, you must either (a) continue to purchase Services from Bell for the Committed Service Period that is required by Bell to receive this consideration, or (b) pay a Service price adjustment ( "Service Agreement Price Adjustment" or "SAPA") plus applicable taxes if (i) you choose to terminate your Services and/or this Agreement before the end of the Committed Service Period, (ii) we terminate your Services and/or this Agreement for non-payment before the end of the Committed Service Period, or (iii) you do not activate the Device within 45 days of its purchase date. The SAPA is the greater of (a) $100 or (b) $20 per month remaining in the Committed Service Period on termination up to a maximum of $400, plus applicable taxes. Other price adjustments may apply to special offers or promotions, and will be notified to you at or before the time you subscribe to the offer or promotion.
    11-03-09 07:52 AM
  22. bluerskyes's Avatar
    that sucks! they should of done it where you have to give back the device if you don't make it the full 2 years! In theory, if your discount is not paid for, then its not yours fully yet. That would of made much more sense. $350 ETF is rediculous!

    I understand the problem they are having, but there are clearly other ways to deal with that problem.
    1. They don't want your phone.
    2. What if it was lost/stolen/damaged?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    11-03-09 08:55 AM
  23. sprke81's Avatar
    [QUOTE=TwinsX2Dad;3991538]Before anyone wigs out on all of this, remember that our Canadian friends have it worse...

    Yes they definitely do... And what I have noticed is that they complain a lot less to. A friend and I was just talking bout this very point couple days ago.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    11-03-09 10:13 AM
  24. cenloe's Avatar
    Wow, seeing nothing about this..

    Of course, I don't work for Big Red anymore but WB still does and judging by his response, he hasn't seen anything in email or InfoManager..

    I do think $350 is a little steep, but I see the reaonong behind it. To me, $150 for dumb phones, $200 for moderate phones like the enV Touch, and $250 for smartphones would make the most sense.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Verizon rumored to be raising ETF to combat scammers Boy Genius Report
    11-03-09 10:22 AM
  25. cenloe's Avatar
    One would still be able to just remove the BOGO device and replace it with a cheap cell phone purchased off of eBay. While that wouldnt really be most profitable method, it would still work.
    Last edited by cenloe; 11-03-09 at 10:55 AM.
    11-03-09 10:28 AM
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