07-22-09 02:57 PM
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  1. gotblackberry's Avatar
    You can hem, haw, call names & act in all manner of combativeness & juvenile iinsults. But here is reality:

    The only portion of any cell phone service covered by contract is the voice-plan component. Nothing more & nothing less. Taxes, optional features & your temperment/common-sense are not included.

    Nothing can be accomplished here, unless your only intent is to stir things up. Your position has been disproven in court and online and even if it weren't, no one here could help you anyway.

    It is a few cents and it is lower than what some other carriers charge anyway. If you're going to spend this much time arguing over a few cents, I would seriously question your judgment & reasoning abilities.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    They're just trying to get out of their contract, it doesn't actually hurt anyones pocket.
    07-13-09 02:52 PM
  2. BADTOLZ's Avatar
    I realize times are tough and money's money, but did I just read two pages of arguments over 6 cents a month?

    How many coffees do you buy a month?
    How many energy drinks do you buy a month?
    Cigarettes?

    Get my point. Ouch. This forum hurt.

    I agree it sucks when people increase fees because what stops them from $10 next time. Well honestly times are tough and even though they're making a grip of money, they'll increase fees.
    So....One less energy drink a year pays your increased fee. Out.
    07-13-09 03:03 PM
  3. dosmoney's Avatar
    boo hoo. a $0.06 increase. unfortunately all carriers have us by the balls. if $0.06 bothers you, you need to straighten up priorities, and probably shouldn't have a cell phone(how can you afford it).

    personally, ill deal with the increase. it could always be worse.
    07-13-09 11:40 PM
  4. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    They're just trying to get out of their contract, it doesn't actually hurt anyones pocket.
    Oh I know - same people who cry over any responsibility.
    I realize times are tough and money's money, but did I just read two pages of arguments over 6 cents a month?
    And it is about the sixteenth thread on the same subject.

    How many coffees do you buy a month?
    How many energy drinks do you buy a month?
    Cigarettes?

    Get my point. Ouch. This forum hurt.
    Bravo. They are so cheap, why do they have a BlackBerry to begin with? For that matter, with the obvious lack of reason & logic, maybe I can understand why they might whine over six cents - that is big money to them.

    Or, as 'bum said, they are just trying to connive their way out of their responsibilities.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-14-09 12:19 AM
  5. gotblackberry's Avatar
    I hope I get the honor of talking to a customer who tries this.
    07-14-09 03:12 AM
  6. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    I hope I get the honor of talking to a customer who tries this.
    You might get to send them a letter I have found online, as reported by many people trying this very tactic. I also found similar responses from a variety of carriers on the same topic. I removed names, to protect privacies.

    Thank you for contacting Verizon Wireless through our website. My name is _______ and I will be assisting you regarding the recent change in our administrative charge. I realize that during these difficult financial times any increases to your bill can have an impact on your finances and I apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused you.

    I attempted to call you to discuss your request but I was unable to reach you. The Administrative charge is part of the Verizon Wireless surcharges that you are billed month. Verizon Wireless surcharges include charges to help recover or defray cost taxes and governmental fees imposed on us. The Administrative charge is an assessment which helps defray certain costs VZW incurs, currently including:

    -Charges we, or our agents, pay local telephone companies for delivering calls from our customers to their customers.

    -Fees and assessments on network facilities and services.

    -Certain costs and charges associated with proceedings related to new cell site construction.

    The Administrative charge is not considered material adverse effect because it can change from time to time, therefore if you cancel the Early Termination fee will not be waived. A description of your surcharges and taxes can be found on page two of your bill on the left hand side.

    I hope the information I have provided regarding the Administrative charge was helpful. We appreciate your business and thank you for choosing Verizon Wireless products and services. Should you have any additional questions or concerns, please reply to this email.


    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-14-09 08:59 AM
  7. BoNg420's Avatar
    You might get to send them a letter I have found online, as reported by many people trying this very tactic. I also found similar responses from a variety of carriers on the same topic. I removed names, to protect privacies.

    Thank you for contacting Verizon Wireless through our website. My name is _______ and I will be assisting you regarding the recent change in our administrative charge. I realize that during these difficult financial times any increases to your bill can have an impact on your finances and I apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused you.

    I attempted to call you to discuss your request but I was unable to reach you. The Administrative charge is part of the Verizon Wireless surcharges that you are billed month. Verizon Wireless surcharges include charges to help recover or defray cost taxes and governmental fees imposed on us. The Administrative charge is an assessment which helps defray certain costs VZW incurs, currently including:

    -Charges we, or our agents, pay local telephone companies for delivering calls from our customers to their customers.

    -Fees and assessments on network facilities and services.

    -Certain costs and charges associated with proceedings related to new cell site construction.

    The Administrative charge is not considered material adverse effect because it can change from time to time, therefore if you cancel the Early Termination fee will not be waived. A description of your surcharges and taxes can be found on page two of your bill on the left hand side.

    I hope the information I have provided regarding the Administrative charge was helpful. We appreciate your business and thank you for choosing Verizon Wireless products and services. Should you have any additional questions or concerns, please reply to this email.


    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Sounds like a bunch of crap to me. How can the administrative charge not be considered adverse? Sure it can change from time to time, but IT NEVER GOES DOWN. Therefore it is adverse. Funny these Verizon workers come in here and stick up for their company, most people hate the place they work and could care less about it.

    Seriously its all a scam by verizon to make every penny they can. This stupid admin charge thing, 6 cents for every customer adds up fast. For the size of the company, the money they rape per plan, and their size customer base, they should not need to charge any additional fees in the first place. It should be your phone service charge and taxes. Thats it. 1 millions customers = $60k
    Last edited by BoNg420; 07-14-09 at 02:14 PM.
    07-14-09 11:25 AM
  8. gotblackberry's Avatar
    Sounds like a bunch of crap to me. How can the administrative charge not be considered adverse? Sure it can change from time to time, but IT NEVER GOES DOWN. Therefore it is adverse. Funny these Verizon workers come in here and stick up for their company, most people hate the place they work and could care less about it.

    Seriously its all a scam by verizon to make every penny they can. This stupid admin charge thing, 6 cents for every customer adds up fast. For the size of the company, the money they rape per plan, and their size customer base, they should not need to charge any additional fees in the first place. It should be your phone service charge and taxes. Thats it. 1 millions customers = $60k
    It's not considered adverse because when you first signed up the FUSC was explained to you and it was also explained that it varies by quarter (July 1st, Q3 Started). It also is explained on EACH bill you get and you continue to keep service.. every company charges it, not just Verizon and it goes up on every single company.
    07-14-09 03:18 PM
  9. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    From Service Agreement | AT&T

    [B]CHANGES TO TERMS AND RATES[b]

    We may change any terms, conditions, rates, fees, expenses, or charges regarding your service at any time. We will provide you with notice of such changes (other than changes to governmental fees, proportional charges for governmental mandates, roaming rates or administrative charges) either in your monthly bill or separately. You understand and agree that State and Federal Universal Service Fees and other governmentally imposed fees, whether or not assessed directly upon you, may be increased based upon the government's or our calculations.

    IF WE INCREASE THE PRICE OF ANY OF THE SERVICES TO WHICH YOU SUBSCRIBE, BEYOND THE LIMITS SET FORTH IN YOUR RATE PLAN BROCHURE, OR IF WE MATERIALLY DECREASE THE GEOGRAPHICAL AREA IN WHICH YOUR AIRTIME RATE APPLIES (OTHER THAN A TEMPORARY DECREASE FOR REPAIRS OR MAINTENANCE), WE WILL DISCLOSE THE CHANGE AT LEAST ONE BILLING CYCLE IN ADVANCE (EITHER THROUGH A NOTICE WITH YOUR BILL, A TEXT MESSAGE TO YOUR DEVICE, OR OTHERWISE), AND YOU MAY TERMINATE THIS AGREEMENT WITHOUT PAYING AN EARLY TERMINATION FEE OR RETURNING OR PAYING FOR ANY PROMOTIONAL ITEMS, PROVIDED YOUR NOTICE OF TERMINATION IS DELIVERED TO US WITHIN THIRTY (30) DAYS AFTER THE FIRST BILL REFLECTING THE CHANGE. If you lose your eligibility for a particular rate plan, we may change your rate plan to one for which you qualify


    =======================

    Now, the entire paragraph, again excerpted from the VZW Customer Agreement:

    Our Rights to Make Changes

    Your service is subject to our business policies, practices and procedures, which we can change without notice. UNLESS OTHERWISE PROHIBITED BY LAW, WE CAN ALSO CHANGE PRICES AND ANY OTHER CONDITIONS IN THIS AGREEMENT AT ANY TIME BY SENDING YOU WRITTEN NOTICE PRIOR TO THE BILLING PERIOD IN WHICH THE CHANGES WOULD GO INTO EFFECT. IF YOU CHOOSE TO USE YOUR SERVICE AFTER THAT POINT, YOU'RE ACCEPTING THE CHANGES. IF THE CHANGES HAVE A MATERIAL ADVERSE EFFECT ON YOU, HOWEVER, YOU CAN END THE AFFECTED SERVICE, WITHOUT ANY EARLY TERMINATION FEE, JUST BY CALLING US WITHIN 60 DAYS AFTER WE SEND NOTICE OF THE CHANGE.

    =======================

    Now, in US contract law (I will see if I can find the references later - too hard on a mobile), "materially adverse" makes reference to the tangible service agreed upon. In telecom, that would be basic plan price, sans options, service area, etc. It specifically excludes things like surcharges, taxes, optional features or other variables.

    =======================

    From the dictionary - two main definitions for the word "materially":

    Materially \Ma*te"ri*al*ly\, adverb

    1. In its essence; substantially.

    2. In an important manner or degree.

    =======================

    Can you find stories online telling tales of getting out of paying an ETF? Yes. Are they all true? No, but some undoubtedly are. It would be a uninformed rep who would allow it, as the policies at all carriers are clear on this. Admin fees, taxes, optional features, etc. are not materially adverse conditions.

    Some may think they will just call and call until they get the answer they want - but this is not really a good idea, as several things can or will happen.

    1) You may be flagged as a problem caller. This could mean refusal of service, disconnection of service and all charges will still be billed, including ETF.

    2) Succeed in getting your way & you cannot return to VZW for a minimum of six months and will probably be required to pay a deposit to do so - you really need to determine if this would be worth it.

    3) Just because you got the ETF waived does not mean a credit report isn't generated. This is something out of call center control.

    4) Derogatory reports do get sent to credit bureaus. We background/credit check all of our applicants, as do many companies. This show up as a failure to pay or honor a contract & causes many to view it as a bad mark on your integrity. For us, it one of the things that automatically disqualifies you for employment. It can even DQ you from working @ QuikTrip, a convenience store chain. Banks, credit card companies, utilities & government are others it might cause problems with.

    5) You may think you're getting away with something, but it tells everyone you deal with what kind of person you are. I don't care where you think the glamour is, I would rather have the integrity of Gomer Pyle, Andy Griffith or Gandhi than Scarface, Bernie Madoff or Barney Frank.

    All of this over six to eight cents. Yeah, I know what kind of person you really are.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-14-09 03:43 PM
  10. itsthemusic's Avatar
    I hope I get the honor of talking to a customer who tries this.
    LOL i feel the same way. I pray everyday for someone to come in with the typical "I was told..." nonsense when in actuality they read it on Crackberry from someone that had no idea what he was talking about.
    07-14-09 03:45 PM
  11. gotblackberry's Avatar
    I remember back in the day on T-Mobile they raised their pay per use texting rate from $.15 to $.20 including international text messaging and they did not have a plan to cover this. I had history of using lots of text to mexico (at $.15/message) due to family living there.

    That is a materially adverse change.
    07-14-09 03:50 PM
  12. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    I remember back in the day on T-Mobile they raised their pay per use texting rate from $.15 to $.20 including international text messaging and they did not have a plan to cover this. I had history of using lots of text to mexico (at $.15/message) due to family living there.

    That is a materially adverse change.
    Again, though - no service agreement covers texting.

    I pray everyday for someone to come in with the typical "I was told..." nonsense when in actuality they read it on Crackberry from someone that had no idea what he was talking about.
    Just point them to the definition of "materially" and that should shut them up.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-14-09 03:54 PM
  13. gotblackberry's Avatar
    Again, though - no service agreement covers texting.
    Well at the time, I got a bill insert advising that they consider this a materially adverse change and if I wanted to disconnect to call CS. I called to verify this was correct but I didn't terminate. I only had three months left and I just waited the three months then ported to Verizon but accoring to T-Mobile I could have.
    07-14-09 04:30 PM
  14. mkottman23's Avatar
    I miss old crackberry, everyone was much happier and friendly before the bb goldrush, there was never all this fighting : /
    07-14-09 05:09 PM
  15. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    Well at the time, I got a bill insert advising that they consider this a materially adverse change and if I wanted to disconnect to call CS. I called to verify this was correct but I didn't terminate. I only had three months left and I just waited the three months then ported to Verizon but accoring to T-Mobile I could have.
    There you go - THEY considered it adverse. Then again, I wonder if they'd have been as charitable had it been 22 months left instead of three.
    I miss old crackberry, everyone was much happier and friendly before the bb goldrush, there was never all this fighting : /
    Many of us feel like that - these days, people ask questions, sometimes with ulterior motives & often the same questions that were answered earlier in the day. Give an answer that isn't what they want & it gets argumentative & ugly.

    Let's all give it up & discuss old dogs, children & watermelon wine, instead. And Scotch. Throw in the NRA & cars. Liberty & self-determination.

    Oh wait - now were getting back into argumentative & sometimes ugly (but fun) discussions. .

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-14-09 05:44 PM
  16. raptor6977's Avatar
    Any price change in the contract is subject the the person being able to terminate the contract without any early term fee's. Just like signal at home. If i was ever wanting to go to another carrier I could just say my signal sucks at home....I'm dropping calls left and right and the network extender sucks also....easy out. There are a few easy outs in contracts. Especially the change in fee's
    07-15-09 09:20 PM
  17. Fried Rice Mofo's Avatar
    Any price change in the contract is subject the the person being able to terminate the contract without any early term fee's. Just like signal at home. If i was ever wanting to go to another carrier I could just say my signal sucks at home....I'm dropping calls left and right and the network extender sucks also....easy out. There are a few easy outs in contracts. Especially the change in fee's
    What amazes me is the amount of people these days that just love to spread misinformation. They either don't check their source, or get their rocks off by lying to people.

    I'm telling you, if you EVER cancelled a contract w/ VZW vecause of a change in the surcharges, it was done by a rep/suervisor who didn't know better, or didn't have the guts to say no. Period.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-15-09 10:06 PM
  18. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    Any price change in the contract is subject the the person being able to terminate the contract without any early term fee's. Just like signal at home. If i was ever wanting to go to another carrier I could just say my signal sucks at home....I'm dropping calls left and right and the network extender sucks also....easy out. There are a few easy outs in contracts. Especially the change in fee's
    Yeah sure. And Santa Claus & the Easter bunny are real, Elvis is flipping burgers in Tulsa & Obama believes in the Constitution.

    Quit reading fairy tales.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-15-09 11:33 PM
  19. raptor6977's Avatar
    So then your also saying vzw has the right to move your plan from 69.99 to 70.00 also right? Not! Any change in the price you originally signed up for is subject to cancellation as said in the previous post on the first page. Hence the part of continued use is your agreement to the charges. LOL Such as the reason I would never work directly for vzw, i wasn't told what I HAD to do or say. I didn't have to try to force data on people to meet some type of quota, ahh and working with no quota, what a stress relief. Next thing you guys will say is if someone signs up and finds they don't have signal at home, or even moves to a place they don't get signal, that it's the customers responsibility because they signed a contract.

    This link should help anyone that is having problems cancelling. It is not regarding the surcharges, but you can relate it to the surcharges as it was the change in text fee's. Never say never guys. Anything is always possible!
    Entry Level Heiress: Cancel Verizon's Contract In Less Than 30 Min For Free
    Last edited by Raptor6977; 07-16-09 at 06:29 AM.
    07-16-09 06:12 AM
  20. BoNg420's Avatar
    So then your also saying vzw has the right to move your plan from 69.99 to 70.00 also right? Not! Any change in the price you originally signed up for is subject to cancellation as said in the previous post on the first page. Hence the part of continued use is your agreement to the charges. LOL Such as the reason I would never work directly for vzw, i wasn't told what I HAD to do or say. I didn't have to try to force data on people to meet some type of quota, ahh and working with no quota, what a stress relief. Next thing you guys will say is if someone signs up and finds they don't have signal at home, or even moves to a place they don't get signal, that it's the customers responsibility because they signed a contract.

    This link should help anyone that is having problems cancelling. It is not regarding the surcharges, but you can relate it to the surcharges as it was the change in text fee's. Never say never guys. Anything is always possible!
    Entry Level Heiress: Cancel Verizon's Contract In Less Than 30 Min For Free
    That guide is a little outdated lol 2007
    07-16-09 07:08 AM
  21. blue_and_bold's Avatar
    Yeah thinking about it 6 cents isnt anything...
    07-16-09 07:26 AM
  22. blue_and_bold's Avatar
    Any price change in the contract is subject the the person being able to terminate the contract without any early term fee's. Just like signal at home. If i was ever wanting to go to another carrier I could just say my signal sucks at home....I'm dropping calls left and right and the network extender sucks also....easy out. There are a few easy outs in contracts. Especially the change in fee's
    I've seen it done too many times to not believe exactly what you're saying. Sure they might send a tech out to your house(honestly doubt it) but if you are calling in constantly. They start a trouble ticket on your service to test it and you go all the right ways you can get out of it. I had a lady with an aircard that she had for 10 months and she called in saying she wasnt able to connect. I check her service, theres no coverage near her. She wants out because she just moved and it should work here. I tracked her account over several days and guess what? She is no longer with Verizon, No ETF.
    07-16-09 07:36 AM
  23. raptor6977's Avatar
    Yeah thinking about it 6 cents isnt anything...
    Your right, $0.06 is not much to us, the average everyday user. But to a company like vzw with 80,000,000 users the $0.06 actually means an extra monthly revenue at 8,800,000. That is an extra 57,600,000 per year and 115,200,000 in a two year period. Nothing to sneeze at is it. Now do you promote paying that money when THE NETWORK is so great that they make the consumer pay 250 dollars for a network extender that will improve their service. Something that they will have to also use their electricity and their internet connection to use. I think paying any extra to use a network that should be giving these things out to the customers who don't receive the best signal is something to second guess.
    07-16-09 08:34 PM
  24. vatothe0's Avatar
    Except network extenders are for indoor service which carriers cannot control. Why should verizon give you a $250 piece of equipment for free because your house is blocking their signal? They are providing the service, you are interfering with it.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-16-09 09:04 PM
  25. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    Your right, $0.06 is not much to us, the average everyday user. But to a company like vzw with 80,000,000 users the $0.06 actually means an extra monthly revenue at 8,800,000. That is an extra 57,600,000 per year and 115,200,000 in a two year period. Nothing to sneeze at is it.
    80,000,000 X $0.06 = $4,800,000.00

    And that was so simple, my grandson did it in his head.

    Now why don't you ask the charge VZW is trying to offset? $61 million & change, thanks to fiscal year projections of the extra monies the current government mandates will cost for the fiscal year.

    Now, back out of what you said & figure 87million customers is closer to accurate. Is VZW trying to profit on the increase? No, because admin costs for collection and accounting need to be figured in.

    Still think they are making a profit? Who cares? They are a for-profit company and there are no non-profit telcos. And I would guarantee you that A) cell service here is cheap, compared to most parts of the world and B) the government some of you want to rely so heavily on would screw up any communications company.

    They offer a service you agreed to buy. They give you something, you pay & you both get what you want.

    Never trust someone who cannot do math.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-16-09 09:22 PM
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