03-17-10 10:58 PM
168 ... 34567
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  1. Super_Mario's Avatar
    So what, lol? Handango is the e-commerce host that VZW contracted to collect and process the orders. Of course they will have a copyright, lol. You get there by clicking an app link directly from VZW's official mobile site. When you buy something through PayPal, do you assume that just because PayPal has a copyright on the page, that the website you purchased it from is owned by PayPal?

    I don't care if Tether's T&C has a disclaimer that a carrier may not authorize it's use. That is there to cover their back sides. If they were THAT concerned about us, they'd name the carriers, but they won't do that because it would hurt sales. Do you really think the average user has dug as deep as we have? How many people really read pages of fine print when buying a phone?

    While you are over here trying to aggravate people just to put in your 2 cents worth and be Verizon's fanboy, were over here trying to get to the bottom of something.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    It is the website for Handango for VZW supported applications and products. And you should care about the T&C for Tether because you claimed people are unwillingly signing up for this service without knowing about charges and limits. And don't criticize me for being putting my 2 cents, just because I don't start my post with I don't want to be argumentative". You can say whatever you want about me and what I have to say, insult me however you see fit. It's not like others haven't done it. It just means you don't like what I have to say because it conflicts with your entire rant of "oh poor me". If you don't like what I have to say, ignore me.
    01-10-10 11:24 PM
  2. Super_Mario's Avatar
    How is this constructive?


    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Did you not read the rest of my posts on the subject? I was making fun of the dumb comment before it. Are you the forum police? Please.
    01-10-10 11:27 PM
  3. travelingfool's Avatar
    It is the website for Handango for VZW supported applications and products. And you should care about the T&C for Tether because you claimed people are unwillingly signing up for this service without knowing about charges and limits. And don't criticize me for being putting my 2 cents, just because I don't start my post with I don't want to be argumentative". You can say whatever you want about me and what I have to say, insult me however you see fit. It's not like others haven't done it. It just means you don't like what I have to say because it conflicts with your entire rant of "oh poor me". If you don't like what I have to say, ignore me.
    Aren't you understanding what I'm saying? Even if what you say is true, which it's not, it's a fact that you get to the handango pay page by a direct link from Verizon's official mobile site. That's the important part.

    And I am much more concerned with VZW's TOS than I am with Tether's T&C. Truly, I am beginning to think that VZW has nullified that portion of their TOC by offering Tether for sale on their website. Again, we know that they won't catch us, it's not about that. My concern was that I signed a contract and gave my word, but now they have nullified it, in my eyes, by offering Tether on their website

    I know this isn't a legal argument. It just an ethical one.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    01-10-10 11:33 PM
  4. dtubbs06's Avatar
    Wrong, it says at the bottom of the page Copyright Handango....it's their website.
    The argument over who actually owns the site is moot.

    1. Verizon's own logo (verizonwireless with the big red check mark) is at the TOP of the page.

    2. The user first went to START.VZW.COM (which IS VZW's site) and clicked threw THEIR links to get to the site to download Tether.

    3. At no time was the user told they were being re-directed to a site outside of the VZW domain.

    What other conclusion does Average Joe User come to than Tether is a supported VZW APP.

    The Joe User has now become an unwitting thief of services.

    I am not arguing the T&C's that they agreed to nor am I ignoring the T&C's of the Tether app itself. I am just saying when is the last time you read the T&C's of a piece of software you were installing? I can tell you the last time I read one.... It was never.

    Now for a series of Hypophora.

    Should I read the T&C's before I agree to them? Yes
    Will I still be held liable for them, even if I don't read them? Yes
    Will Big Red catch everyone that tethers illegally? No
    Is it very likely that, if I keep my usage low, I will be one of the ones that are caught? No

    And a Rhetorical one.

    Are all of these reason enough for me to install Tether with a clear conscience???


    PS, for those who were thinking of changing from VZW to other carriers because of the Tethering terms in the TOS. ALL carriers have similar wording prohibiting tethering without a tethering plan in their respective TOS or T&C's.
    Last edited by dtubbs06; 01-10-10 at 11:53 PM.
    01-10-10 11:37 PM
  5. Super_Mario's Avatar
    Aren't you understanding what I'm saying? Even if what you say is true, which it's not, it's a fact that you get to the handango pay page by a direct link from Verizon's official mobile site. That's the important part.

    And I am much more concerned with VZW's TOS than I am with Tether's T&C. Truly, I am beginning to think that VZW has nullified that portion of their TOC by offering Tether for sale on their website. Again, we know that they won't catch us, it's not about that. My concern was that I signed a contract and gave my word, but now they have nullified it, in my eyes, by offering Tether on their website

    I know this isn't a legal argument. It just an ethical one.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Ethical? I like how you attack me personally and talk about ethics. Drive safe Fool.
    01-10-10 11:45 PM
  6. Super_Mario's Avatar
    The argument over who actually owns the site is moot.

    1. Verizon's own logo (verizonwireless with the big red check mark) is at the TOP of the page.

    2. The user first went to START.VZW.COM (which IS VZW's site) and clicked threw THEIR links to get to the site to download Tether.

    3. At no time was the user told they were being re-directed to a site outside of the VZW domain.

    What other conclusion does Average Joe User come to than Tether is a supported VZW APP.

    The Joe User has now become an unwitting thief of services.

    I am not arguing the T&C's that they agreed to nor am I ignoring the T&C's of the Tether app itself. I am just saying when is the last time you read the T&C's of a piece of software you were installing? I can tell you the last time I read one.... It was never.

    Now for a series of Hypophora.

    Should I read the T&C's before I agree to them? Yes
    Will I still be held liable for them, even if I don't read them? Yes
    Will Big Red catch everyone that tethers illegally? No
    Is it very likely that, if I keep my usage low, I will be one of the ones that are caught? No

    And a Rhetorical one.

    Are all of these reason enough for me to install Tether with a clear conscience???


    PS, for those who were thinking of changing from VZW to other carriers because of the Tethering terms in the TOS. ALL carriers have similar wording it prohibiting tethering without a tethering plan in their respective TOS or T&C's.
    At least you understand.
    01-10-10 11:50 PM
  7. travelingfool's Avatar
    Ethical? I like how you attack me personally and talk about ethics. Drive safe Fool.
    Well, if "fanboy" is a personal attack, then I apologize. It just seemed like you were jumping in with a really weak argument about who owns what site, after it was proven that the referring site was VZW. And for the record, I wasn't lurking around various threads trying to find you. I was in the middle of replying to you when I got an email to another thread that I subscribe to, which happened to be the one where you talked about VZW kicking babies, and I thought, "Man, he's going around all the threads about tethering and Verizon trying to aggravate people, blindly defending VZW." That's why I added the fanboy comment.

    If you're feelings were hurt, I truly apologize. I should have left that comment unsaid.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Last edited by TravellingFool; 01-11-10 at 12:42 AM.
    01-11-10 12:00 AM
  8. dtubbs06's Avatar
    It is the website for Handango for VZW supported applications and products. And you should care about the T&C for Tether because you claimed people are unwillingly signing up for this service without knowing about charges and limits. And don't criticize me for being putting my 2 cents, just because I don't start my post with I don't want to be argumentative". You can say whatever you want about me and what I have to say, insult me however you see fit. It's not like others haven't done it. It just means you don't like what I have to say because it conflicts with your entire rant of "oh poor me". If you don't like what I have to say, ignore me.
    The bolded portion of the quoted section above illustrates the point I was making about the confusion surrounding Tether. It is Handango's website for VZW SUPPORTED Applications and Products. Or put more clearly, it is Verizon's handango site (like Crackberry's app store is really a mobihand site).

    Joe Average (I know I've changed Joe's name since my last post) remembers his sales rep saying that he can connect his BB for $30 / mth when he signed up, but now sees this tether app for $50 with no recurring monthly fees. He thinks to himself that is a HUGE savings ($670 over the 2 yr contract) I think I'll buy it. He sees the VZW logo and assumes (correctly or not) that Big Red sanctions the use of this product as a replacement for the $30 monthly deal.

    Again I am not saying he is right or wrong, only agreeing that this would be the logical progression for Joe Average.

    As stated elsewhere, one carrier (that no one has ever heard of) has spoken out against Tether and are now specifically listed as an "incompatible" carrier for their product. If this IS an issue for VZW, they need only follow the same course to clarify their position on the matter.
    01-11-10 12:06 AM
  9. travelingfool's Avatar
    The bolded portion of the quoted section above illustrates the point I was making about the confusion surrounding Tether. It is Handango's website for VZW SUPPORTED Applications and Products. Or put more clearly, it is Verizon's handango site (like Crackberry's app store is really a mobihand site).

    Joe Average (I know I've changed Joe's name since my last post) remembers his sales rep saying that he can connect his BB for $30 / mth when he signed up, but now sees this tether app for $50 with no recurring monthly fees. He thinks to himself that is a HUGE savings ($670 over the 2 yr contract) I think I'll buy it. He sees the VZW logo and assumes (correctly or not) that Big Red sanctions the use of this product as a replacement for the $30 monthly deal.

    Again I am not saying he is right or wrong, only agreeing that this would be the logical progression for Joe Average.

    As stated elsewhere, one carrier (that no one has ever heard of) has spoken out against Tether and are now specifically listed as an "incompatible" carrier for their product. If this IS an issue for VZW, they need only follow the same course to clarify their position on the matter.
    Exactly what I have been saying (or at least meaning), vociferously and repeatedly, except that you said it better; in one post, lol.

    Thank you.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    01-11-10 12:15 AM
  10. kbz1960's Avatar
    Well, first of all, Tether, formally TetherBerry, hasn't always supported bluetooth. Secondly, since you can tether via bluetooth for free with VZAM or even do it without software, that's not enough of a reason for most people to spend fifty bucks.

    Third, how are most people, especially uninformed consumers who don't hang out in device forums like we do, even going to know that VZW charges for tethering? When you install Tether and open your browser to surf, bada bing, there's the internet. You don't get the splash page you have to click on to accept the $30/mo fee like you do when you use VZAM, DM5 or even when you manually configure DUN.
    Really? It's OK and they allow to tether using bluetooth for free but charge you $30 a month to do it using a usb cable. WTF is the difference here if someone can explain?
    01-11-10 06:55 AM
  11. Chrisy's Avatar
    i agree with this. Except i feel that Tether is essentially approved by VZW since it remains on their VZW branded app store. If not, VZW needs to block Tether or contact Handango to inform them that Tether is not to be sold as a VZW compatible app, which access is gained to by clicking the official VZW Mobile Homepage.

    My post was linked to but i'll repost it here so i'll be subscribed as well.


    Tether (formerly Tetherberry) is sold in the VZW branded App store. So i don't see how they can charge you for using a product they endorse and sell. i'm not saying this as fact, just seems like a gray area.

    From the TetherBerry forum:

    THEY CANNOT DETECT YOU!!! If you are using tetherberry, they just see you using your data connection. Using the data connection has NO LIMITS. Tethering where your laptop is connecting directly to the verizon EVDO stuff does have a 5G limit, but that is NOT using the data connection. Tetherberry uses the data connection. It has a driver on your laptop that redirect TCP/IP traffic to the blackberry over USB and that gets forwarded to tetherberry's servers to validate your license and to also do some things (I think it's because on the blackberry, the IP address isn't actually on the phone, but at Verizon and the APN is how verizon communicates with it, so you need to get to a non-verizon server)...which you do.

    So, unless Verizon knows what tetherberry's IP addresses are (and they could use a variable IP address using DDNS if they wanted to, Verizon wouldn't even be able to do that.

    You are perfectly safe and there is absolutely nothing that Verizon can do about it other than to limit your data plan.

    VZW Today

    Click on Get Apps
    Get apps for Fun & Work
    Best Selling Apps



    It's powered by Handango. However, it is VZW approved and Tether is listed. It is on the VZW mobile homepage, so it's effectively their app store. i was not redirected to an outside source. i gained access to VZW App Store, Powered by Handango from my VZW BlackBerry, and by clicking on the official VZW Start Page (which came book marked on my new 9630).

    The argument over who actually owns the site is moot.

    1. Verizon's own logo (verizonwireless with the big red check mark) is at the TOP of the page.

    2. The user first went to START.VZW.COM (which IS VZW's site) and clicked threw THEIR links to get to the site to download Tether.

    3. At no time was the user told they were being re-directed to a site outside of the VZW domain.

    What other conclusion does Average Joe User come to than Tether is a supported VZW APP.

    The Joe User has now become an unwitting thief of services.

    I am not arguing the T&C's that they agreed to nor am I ignoring the T&C's of the Tether app itself. I am just saying when is the last time you read the T&C's of a piece of software you were installing? I can tell you the last time I read one.... It was never.

    Now for a series of Hypophora.

    Should I read the T&C's before I agree to them? Yes
    Will I still be held liable for them, even if I don't read them? Yes
    Will Big Red catch everyone that tethers illegally? No
    Is it very likely that, if I keep my usage low, I will be one of the ones that are caught? No

    And a Rhetorical one.

    Are all of these reason enough for me to install Tether with a clear conscience???


    PS, for those who were thinking of changing from VZW to other carriers because of the Tethering terms in the TOS. ALL carriers have similar wording prohibiting tethering without a tethering plan in their respective TOS or T&C's.
    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    01-11-10 07:35 AM
  12. i7guy's Avatar
    The argument over who actually owns the site is moot.

    1. Verizon's own logo (verizonwireless with the big red check mark) is at the TOP of the page.

    2. The user first went to START.VZW.COM (which IS VZW's site) and clicked threw THEIR links to get to the site to download Tether.

    3. At no time was the user told they were being re-directed to a site outside of the VZW domain.

    What other conclusion does Average Joe User come to than Tether is a supported VZW APP.

    The Joe User has now become an unwitting thief of services.

    I am not arguing the T&C's that they agreed to nor am I ignoring the T&C's of the Tether app itself. I am just saying when is the last time you read the T&C's of a piece of software you were installing? I can tell you the last time I read one.... It was never.

    Now for a series of Hypophora.

    Should I read the T&C's before I agree to them? Yes
    Will I still be held liable for them, even if I don't read them? Yes
    Will Big Red catch everyone that tethers illegally? No
    Is it very likely that, if I keep my usage low, I will be one of the ones that are caught? No

    And a Rhetorical one.

    Are all of these reason enough for me to install Tether with a clear conscience???


    PS, for those who were thinking of changing from VZW to other carriers because of the Tethering terms in the TOS. ALL carriers have similar wording prohibiting tethering without a tethering plan in their respective TOS or T&C's.
    When you bought your smartphone do you remember signing a peice of paper as well as having the sales rep explain aspects of smartphone ownership. I was clearly told about tethering. Heck, I knew about tethering charges when I had my dumbphone.

    Ignorance is no excuse of the law so they say. As I said above you do not need tether or tetherberry to tether. You can download bluetooth software for your computer that allows that to happen. There are pages of forums devoted to how to tether "for free". There is no disclaimer on this software and one can't claim ignorance if they get caught.
    01-11-10 08:37 AM
  13. travelingfool's Avatar
    Really? It's OK and they allow to tether using bluetooth for free but charge you $30 a month to do it using a usb cable. WTF is the difference here if someone can explain?
    No, VZW doesn't allow you to tether for free regardless of whether you are connecting via bluetooth or usb cable. That's not what I was saying here.

    You'd have to read the comment of the person I was replying to in order to understand what I was saying. The poster said that since it was easier to use the app, Tether, to connect via bluetooth than it was using VZW's app, VZAM, that he thought it was worth the $50 price just for that alone. I disagreed.

    What may have confused you here is that I said VZAM is free. Well, it is free, to download and install, but tethering through it, whether via usb or bluetooth, is $30/mo. Is that what you were confused about?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    01-11-10 09:14 AM
  14. mbs's Avatar
    As far as I'm concerned, if RIM's AppWorld is selling it and VZW's app store is selling it, I'm allowed to use it.

    Apple doesn't sell iPhone apps that are prohibited.

    Verizon's entrapment isn't legal - they can't sell me an app for their own phone then turn around and tell me I can't use it.

    So I occasionally use TetherBerry with a clear conscience. If I want to tether - and get official VZW techical support - I'll buy their $30/mo package instead. Since I'm happy to provide my own tech support, I'll continue to use the app they sold me.
    01-11-10 09:30 AM
  15. idntknw's Avatar
    As far as I'm concerned, if RIM's AppWorld is selling it and VZW's app store is selling it, I'm allowed to use it.

    Apple doesn't sell iPhone apps that are prohibited.

    Verizon's entrapment isn't legal - they can't sell me an app for their own phone then turn around and tell me I can't use it.

    So I occasionally use TetherBerry with a clear conscience. If I want to tether - and get official VZW techical support - I'll buy their $30/mo package instead. Since I'm happy to provide my own tech support, I'll continue to use the app they sold me.
    Well put...

    And agree...

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    01-11-10 09:47 AM
  16. Gnomad's Avatar
    I partly agree with everyone's view that you can get Tether directly from a VZW approved website, and if I find that I need to Tether, this will likely be how I achieve it. But, (there is always a but ) I still believe that little asterisk at the end of where it says no tethering fees is what will hang me if Verizon decides to audit my usage and finds me Tethering. Unethical practice from Verizon, since there is no clear definition of what that asterisk means, of course. But in the end I would imagine their lawyers will beat mine into the ground and I will lose. Not very likely to happen, but still possible. Is it a risk I am willing to take? Sure, if I decide I need (or want) to tether, why buy a cow when you can get the milk for free!!
    01-11-10 10:38 AM
  17. travelingfool's Avatar
    ... why buy a cow when you can get the milk for free!!
    That was a moooooving commentary.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    01-11-10 11:02 AM
  18. Super_Mario's Avatar
    As far as I'm concerned, if RIM's AppWorld is selling it and VZW's app store is selling it, I'm allowed to use it.

    Apple doesn't sell iPhone apps that are prohibited.

    Verizon's entrapment isn't legal - they can't sell me an app for their own phone then turn around and tell me I can't use it.

    So I occasionally use TetherBerry with a clear conscience. If I want to tether - and get official VZW techical support - I'll buy their $30/mo package instead. Since I'm happy to provide my own tech support, I'll continue to use the app they sold me.
    They don't necessarily entrap you, they do however have the right to charge you overages if you exceed the normal 5GB tether cap. But I rarely EVER see this happen.

    Hope you're having a GREAT morning TravelingFool.
    01-11-10 11:11 AM
  19. travelingfool's Avatar
    Hope you're having a GREAT morning TravelingFool.
    Lol, supermario28, thank you. I'll take that to mean that my apology was accepted

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Last edited by TravellingFool; 01-11-10 at 11:19 AM.
    01-11-10 11:16 AM
  20. Super_Mario's Avatar
    Lol, supermario28, thank you. I'll take that to mean that my apology was accepted

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Of course, I don't expect everyone to agree all the time.
    01-11-10 11:25 AM
  21. Evermore707's Avatar
    Data is not a finite resource. Unlike water, you can always make more bits. This is why I find data caps ridiculous.
    01-11-10 12:25 PM
  22. woodworthjohnca's Avatar
    Data is not a finite resource. Unlike water, you can always make more bits...

    Yes. It is the bandwidth that is finite. The cup runneth over.
    01-11-10 12:58 PM
  23. Jude526's Avatar
    I surely hope you are not typing as you are driving. I understand your disappointments. I used to work for an indirect and I have been a very long time customer of Vzw . I was with them when they were Airtouch. No carrier can touch their service. I have both the BB and the USB for my laptop. I have had the wireless internet since 2005 and I love it. I haven't had a landline since then and so therefore my only communication is my BB and also my laptop. My bill every month is high but it is my choice. My internet is up for renewal in March but I am thinking of not renewing it. Two months ago I had to replace the USB because the one I had went defective and was out of warranty. So I paid upfront for another one and am happy. I am grandfathered in with an unlimited wireless internet. I know they are going to be 4G sometime this yr and I would love to have that wireless 4G on my laptop. But if I do the upgrade I will have to give up the unlimited and have to accept the current usage. I could pay outright for the device, it won't be that costly. I have been offered to tether and it would just be the 30 a month and no extra contract. But I am so used to the separate wireless and happy with it, I don't want to use it. It has been offered to me to try it free for a month. I have heard good things about tethering and not so great.

    Cricket has wireless too and it is a lower price I think 45. I have a couple of friends who have it and say it is decent. You could check the coverage areas in the states you travel and perhaps that would work for you so you can have wireless but at a better price.

    I won't leave Vzw on the wireless and I pay it. I also have a corporate plan though except for that. So my BB and data do get a break. I am spoiled though. I have the best and can't give it up. I have said hundreds of times though to Verizon they should come up with better pricing, be more competitive. But they know they have the best premium coverage. I know for a fact all they do to enable us to have the best coverage. They fork out over a billion each quarter into their network. I am not partial because I sold Verizon. I am partial because I was a customer long before I sold wireless.

    If more customers emailed them after logging into their account, and were polite in their emails, maybe they will take our issues into being. If they possibly get enough of the same issued complaints or suggestions, maybe we would see some action. It won't happen over night, but they do listen. I won't go into specifics but have seen where techs have been sent out and those issues resolved.

    Maybe there will be plan changes, it would be great if they do. Perhaps with the Altel merge new plans will be in the future. We can hope can't we?
    01-11-10 01:42 PM
  24. s.hasan546's Avatar


    this was using tether app. Its decently quick. **** my DSL connection at work is only 1.4 mbs DL and .5 mbs UP
    01-11-10 01:51 PM
  25. kbz1960's Avatar
    What may have confused you here is that I said VZAM is free. Well, it is free, to download and install, but tethering through it, whether via usb or bluetooth, is $30/mo. Is that what you were confused about?
    No this quote was.

    Well, first of all, Tether, formally TetherBerry, hasn't always supported bluetooth. Secondly, since you can tether via bluetooth for free with VZAM or even do it without software, that's not enough of a reason for most people to spend fifty bucks.
    01-11-10 04:11 PM
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