05-17-09 01:16 PM
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  1. fpatano's Avatar
    Why is it that Verizon just cant seem to get it right? My Blackberry is the most robust and reliable device I have ever used, the one thing I want is the ability to hop on a WiFi network if I am around one. Its getting to the point where the ETF would be worth it to be able to get the phone features I want. Lets face facts the VZ Niagara is not living up to what we thought it was going to be. I dont know if its RIM or VZ, but this is getting ridiculous. Is it too much to ask for to get a BB that is laid out like the Bold, with Wifi, dual mode GPS, a 612 MHz processor, 512 MBs of RAM, 1GB storage with MicroSD 32GB support, 3.2 MP Camera with flash and auto focus on America's most reliable network? I guess it is, because I can get most of those features on ATT for about the same monthly cost.
    Please dont give me the spiel of "But with VZ's fast EVDO network, you dont need WiFi", because thats BS! I have never seen the DL speed on my Curve go over 200 kbps, EVER.
    I mean, I even remember reading that the storm had room for a WiFi radio, but VZ told them to leave it out. Maybe its time to give a little, quality, to get a little, features.....

    Thoughts?
    03-14-09 05:12 PM
  2. lastraid's Avatar
    See ya - I do not think WI-FI is coming anytime soon. Do not need it. 3G faster and G4 coming WI-FI will be even a bigger snail. At this time as stated in many other post around here NO BB device has WI-FI on CDMA network.


    We will miss you. Sorry just tired of whinning about WI_FI and now you have started another forum to sart this crying all over again.
    03-14-09 05:26 PM
  3. mattglobal's Avatar
    See ya - I do not think WI-FI is coming anytime soon. Do not need it. 3G faster and G4 coming WI-FI will be even a bigger snail. At this time as stated in many other post around here NO BB device has WI-FI on CDMA network.


    We will miss you. Sorry just tired of whinning about WI_FI and now you have started another forum to sart this crying all over again.
    How's that 3G coverage on a 767 at 30,000ft? Or two stories below ground surrounded by steel and concrete? If only there was a way to pick up a shortrange wireless signal to connect to the network in those situations...
    03-14-09 05:59 PM
  4. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    Ditto what my friend lastraid said. WiFi & CDMA BlackBerrys may NEVER appear, due to security authentication issues. And AT&T 3G usually pops right close to your claims of 200kbps anyway.

    GSM runs well with WiFi - so what? The whiners never consider the reduced security, the dramatically higher radiation levels (brain dysfunction anyone?), the overall speed and coverage reduction, etc. This is why high-tech areas of the world, like the Orient & North America have better CDMA coverage and leave GSM to the deteriorating and dropping prosperity 20th Century dying industialized areas.

    Ignorance & whining seem to go hand in hand. I would NEVER trust personal information to GSM or WiFi - not in this day & age of ID theft/fraud.

    If you're ignorant enough to follow the socialist bandwagon of kidiots crying for the high-power draw technology known as WiFi, that's your problem.

    I too am so weary of the daily dummies exhibiting their lack of technical prowess by whining constantly about something that would require a double-sized battery just to get them to lunch.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    03-14-09 06:04 PM
  5. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    Let's see here. Just got off my big calculator, running some figures.

    Bear in mind that a GSM BlackBerry running WiFi eats battery life.

    Now, based on the increased power demands of the CDMA protocol, for security & speed purposes, and taking into consideration the ratio increase of the GSM BlackBerrys using WiFi, and converting the difference into raw numbers (not a multiplier, as that would unfairly advantage the CDMA argument), then reducing my numbers by 25%, just to be conservative, a CDMA BlackBerry would require about 7250mah to run for twelve hours. Divide battery capacity into that 7250 to figure out how many batteries you'd need to carry just to get you half the battery life I currently get (about 24hrs per charge). Add in the peak discharge hit the batteries would take before failure and you're looking at having to carry 5-6 batteries to get you through half a day and those batteries would need replacement about every 60-90 days.

    For the constantly whining dopes out there: It isn't VZW.

    Now, further this with the dramatically increased radiation levels of GSM and you might be concerned about jumping ship to a GSM carrier.

    Uh oh, we also have a security issue with GSM, which explains the increased battery draw of CDMA. You see, CDMA BlackBerrys constantly authenticate with the servers, plus the higher speeds, and you find out why there is such a power increase. A GSM BlackBerry can go several days on a charge, while a heavily used CDMA model needs a charge about once per day.

    AT&T 3G max speed is about 300-350kbps, while VZW/Sprint consistently run above 400kbps & in most metro areas, will top 1.1mbps.

    Security? In this day and age of hackers, ID theft/fraud & ignorant consumers, there is no way I'd run any smartphone on either GSM or WiFi. Doing so would be akin to stripping naked, greasing your tail, bending over in a gay bar & begging not to be touched.

    Ever wonder why the misinformed, left-wing consumer groups (and some politicos) dumped on VZW & Sprint for cooperating with the goverment-ordered wiretaps? Because the government didn't need help tapping GSM phones. And after a contract in the Middle East to build some infrastructure, I can tell you terrorists don't like using GSM either.

    So - you want a WiFi BlackBerry? Go bare your stuff on a GSM network, because high quality control of CDMA carriers & manufacturers, coupled with savvy, tech oriented consumers, will make sure the odds of a CDMA WiFi device may never see the light of day.

    High tech areas of the world, like the Orient & North America are the strongholds of CDMA, while places like France & Venezuela like GSM.

    For me, I demand security & reasonable battery life & speed.

    I've also not had an issue with mine in a commercial airliner.


    Take the whining elsewhere.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    03-14-09 07:05 PM
  6. RyanCF's Avatar
    Let's see here. Just got off my big calculator, running some figures.

    Bear in mind that a GSM BlackBerry running WiFi eats battery life.

    Now, based on the increased power demands of the CDMA protocol, for security & speed purposes, and taking into consideration the ratio increase of the GSM BlackBerrys using WiFi, and converting the difference into raw numbers (not a multiplier, as that would unfairly advantage the CDMA argument), then reducing my numbers by 25%, just to be conservative, a CDMA BlackBerry would require about 7250mah to run for twelve hours. Divide battery capacity into that 7250 to figure out how many batteries you'd need to carry just to get you half the battery life I currently get (about 24hrs per charge). Add in the peak discharge hit the batteries would take before failure and you're looking at having to carry 5-6 batteries to get you through half a day and those batteries would need replacement about every 60-90 days.

    For the constantly whining dopes out there: It isn't VZW.

    Now, further this with the dramatically increased radiation levels of GSM and you might be concerned about jumping ship to a GSM carrier.

    Uh oh, we also have a security issue with GSM, which explains the increased battery draw of CDMA. You see, CDMA BlackBerrys constantly authenticate with the servers, plus the higher speeds, and you find out why there is such a power increase. A GSM BlackBerry can go several days on a charge, while a heavily used CDMA model needs a charge about once per day.

    AT&T 3G max speed is about 300-350kbps, while VZW/Sprint consistently run above 400kbps & in most metro areas, will top 1.1mbps.

    Security? In this day and age of hackers, ID theft/fraud & ignorant consumers, there is no way I'd run any smartphone on either GSM or WiFi. Doing so would be akin to stripping naked, greasing your tail, bending over in a gay bar & begging not to be touched.

    Ever wonder why the misinformed, left-wing consumer groups (and some politicos) dumped on VZW & Sprint for cooperating with the goverment-ordered wiretaps? Because the government didn't need help tapping GSM phones. And after a contract in the Middle East to build some infrastructure, I can tell you terrorists don't like using GSM either.

    So - you want a WiFi BlackBerry? Go bare your stuff on a GSM network, because high quality control of CDMA carriers & manufacturers, coupled with savvy, tech oriented consumers, will make sure the odds of a CDMA WiFi device may never see the light of day.

    High tech areas of the world, like the Orient & North America are the strongholds of CDMA, while places like France & Venezuela like GSM.

    For me, I demand security & reasonable battery life & speed.

    I've also not had an issue with mine in a commercial airliner.


    Take the whining elsewhere.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    All I can say is, wow. A very informative post. Just more reason to be a part of "the network". I must say I have never come across a time where I would need wifi. Its a phone, if I want to do that much web surfing, I'll get on a computer.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    03-14-09 07:51 PM
  7. jrod3055's Avatar
    Great post Twinsx2dad - If someone were to take a poll of those who want wifi vs non-wifi. I bet the age would be mostly (I didn't say all) twenty-something people. And to take it one step further, these same people probably hang out at a Starbucks which is the reason they want WiFi.
    03-14-09 09:07 PM
  8. bearkat38's Avatar
    How's that 3G coverage on a 767 at 30,000ft? Or two stories below ground surrounded by steel and concrete? If only there was a way to pick up a shortrange wireless signal to connect to the network in those situations...
    I was thinking the same thing because I spend most of my days in those EXACT same situations!
    03-14-09 09:13 PM
  9. ScottRPriester's Avatar
    Why is it that Verizon just cant seem to get it right? My Blackberry is the most robust and reliable device I have ever used, the one thing I want is the ability to hop on a WiFi network if I am around one. Its getting to the point where the ETF would be worth it to be able to get the phone features I want. Lets face facts the VZ Niagara is not living up to what we thought it was going to be. I dont know if its RIM or VZ, but this is getting ridiculous. Is it too much to ask for to get a BB that is laid out like the Bold, with Wifi, dual mode GPS, a 612 MHz processor, 512 MBs of RAM, 1GB storage with MicroSD 32GB support, 3.2 MP Camera with flash and auto focus on America's most reliable network? I guess it is, because I can get most of those features on ATT for about the same monthly cost.
    Please dont give me the spiel of "But with VZ's fast EVDO network, you dont need WiFi", because thats BS! I have never seen the DL speed on my Curve go over 200 kbps, EVER.
    I mean, I even remember reading that the storm had room for a WiFi radio, but VZ told them to leave it out. Maybe its time to give a little, quality, to get a little, features.....

    Thoughts?
    I think you are way over demanding for your wants/needs as a Blackberry and/or VZW user. People like yourself that are that particular about the speeds and capability don't even make up 1 percent of all PDA/Smartphone/Blackberry users that we deal with on a daily basis. The overall majority just want a reliable phone and something that will deliver and respond to emails quick and efficiently. Any Blackberry model does that better than anything that VZW offers.

    I am on the web every day on my Storm. No matter what kind of coverage area I'm in, I am always more than pleased with the Storm and it's access speeds.

    I just cant imagine feeling as deeply as you do over the concerns you mentioned.
    03-14-09 10:46 PM
  10. Zencyl's Avatar
    ive never cared about wifi on my phone, if i need wifi then im not using my phone anyway.
    03-14-09 11:23 PM
  11. Mamaluka's Avatar
    Fpatano:
    I just switched to ATT Bold, I love it. WiFi is fantastic. I see someone said vzw's 3G can get bursts up to 1.1mb. Yes but that's stationary, not while booking down the highway when you shouldn't be surfing anyway. Trust me OP, when I'm surfing the most is @ someones office waiting for a meeting or at home at night laying in bed and the WiFi is just plain sick fast.
    Now for a question to the very info savvy TwinsX. In your opinion, is it fair what ScottR said above. That only 1% of bb users, smartphone, pda users call in complaining about speeds. Anyone into speed isn't calling customer support, they're out there with the know how already. Mr & Mrs "how do I get my aol mail on my phone?" are the majority of CS callers, no?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    03-15-09 12:32 AM
  12. rantingryan's Avatar
    So in other words, it can't burst to 1.1 Mbps while moving in a car. Explain to me why u would need that type of speed in that situation anyways?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    03-15-09 02:44 AM
  13. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    Well, the fact of the matter is simple. The vast majority of people honestly don't care and I think the figure Scott quoted was probably high.

    Look at the number of regular posters here - those with over 250 posts who have posted in the last 30 days. It may look like a lot, but is it really? We get a lot of Treo/iPhone/dumbphone people who just want to chat about anything. We also get our share of people with multiple aliases. The biggest share of the membership probably has fewer than 10 posts, with most at zero or one. They come, they read, they might post a question or two, then never return.

    The people who are passionate about BlackBerry, for the most part, don't come here, nor do they care to.

    I work with people who all do mobile telephony for a living. I've told them about several good phone sites and only one comes around - and when the subject of WiFi comes up, they all turn their noses up at it.

    Yes, it can be fast, but to your assertion about mobile speeds, how often can you run a WiFi connection while mobile, unless you're driving in a circle? We are all very mobile and either tether or use Aircards, because WiFi is unreliable, not very mobile and an extreme risk to data security.

    You can drive by my office and pick up a single open WiFi connection - it does get used, both by employees (it is setup for their personal devices and is firewalled from our data) and by strangers in the area. What the employees know while the strangers do not is that every keystroke input on our WiFi connection is recorded. Sit outside with your smartphone & log into CrackBerry & your username & password is archived. Buy on Amazon with your laptop? We now have your credit card on file. Your personal info and your device signature is there too - your ISP can do the same thing. Now we don't do this for anything malicious - it is done in case any legal matters come down later, pointing at our network. But if we can do it for security/liabilty reasons, think of what Harry Hacker could do with that same information.

    Back to the original question - what some of you keep demanding is a Ferrari that will do 200MPH off-road. Well, guess what? That car doesn't exist and nobody makes anything like it. You can buy a BMW or Porsche that will go offroad and hit 175, but that's it.

    If the world all wanted a Corvette Z06, why is the best selling car a front-wheel-drive, four-cylinder Toyota? To listen to some of you whine, reminds me of reading the letters in Car and Driver where the guy screams that again they picked the Honda Accord instead of his Infiniti G37. The guy says the staff is nuts, that they don't know what they're talking about. Yet Honda sells more Accords in two weeks than Infiniti sells cars in a year.

    The same holds true with BlackBerrys. VZW's number one seller is made not by Rim, but by LG. AT&T's biggest selling smartphone isn't made by RIM, it is made by Apple. And, if WiFi were so important, why is the company with the highest number of BlackBerrys to customers Sprint? The number two in ratio (Number One overall for several years) is VZW. AT&T is number four proportionately, yet has the most WiFi BlackBerry models. Oh, AT&T's number one smartphone customer satisfaction complaint? Slow or non-existent 3G. The number two? WiFi issues.

    So, if we look at the customer makeup of the carriers, smartphones are in the minority. BlackBerrys are in the minority of smartphones. People who do have smartphones are more likely than not to have a device lacking WiFi. Then there are what remains.

    I have several WinMo WiFi phones in my desk - I tried the WiFi on them and could watch the battery meter drop. This is with extended batteries. I couldn't care less about WiFi on them. For one, mobile sites are low bandwidth. Everything I run on my BlackBerry is already fast. At home, I have a computer in every room and a quad-core media center running the entertainment in the house. I have six Vista or XP Pro laptops in the house & a pair oc MacBooks. All of them have firewalls & WiFi. Why would I need to suck the life out of my phone battery?

    When I take the laptops out, it is often a pain in the neck to get on a WiFi network because they are either secured or fee-based. And more & more states are making it illegal to access a network without first getting verifiable permission to use it. Excuse me madam, you don't know me, but will you please sign my permission slip?

    Forget that. I power up the Aircard & surf away on my laptop.

    You all want sports cars but you only want to pay for a Hyundai. Most of the world is happy with their Hyundais. Me, I'll take the sports car & not complain that I can't take it offroad. I have trucks to do that.

    For now, I am going back to sleep.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    03-15-09 02:59 AM
  14. RyanCF's Avatar
    Great post Twinsx2dad - If someone were to take a poll of those who want wifi vs non-wifi. I bet the age would be mostly (I didn't say all) twenty-something people. And to take it one step further, these same people probably hang out at a Starbucks which is the reason they want WiFi.
    I just wanted to say:
    A- I'm 23 and have no desire for WiFi on my phone.
    B- I hate Starbucks! They're overpriced and their coffee isn't even that good.

    How's that 3G coverage on a 767 at 30,000ft? Or two stories below ground surrounded by steel and concrete? If only there was a way to pick up a shortrange wireless signal to connect to the network in those situations...
    Aren't you supposed to turn your phone off for the flight?! Maybe its just me, but I tend you follow the guidelines for while in flight. And if WiFi is really that important, go to AT&T or TMobile.

    I, as many others, are just happy with our non-WiFi BlackBerrys.
    03-15-09 04:10 AM
  15. snowgimp's Avatar
    Omnia, touch and touch pro experience...wifi=garbage as far as speed. If I was in a bunker as described in some of these posts I guess something would be better than nothing but at some point I don't want to limp away from the crash rather than live that way of life. If it's a choice of running into that rare situation where I can use Wifi on my Berry as opposed to not dropping calls in 75% of the places I go, I'll chose the latter.
    03-15-09 04:20 AM
  16. mattglobal's Avatar
    Aren't you supposed to turn your phone off for the flight?! Maybe its just me, but I tend you follow the guidelines for while in flight.
    You've noticed that, prior to boarding an aircraft at any airport in the world, you pass through security screening. There's a list of items are that are deemed too dangerous to bring on board. Mobile phones are not one of them. Do you really think that an airline would let passengers bring something on board that could potentially affect the flight in any way and trust them to be good about it?

    The rules against cell phones have, in reality, had nothing to do with potential interference with the aircraft's systems:

    1) They want you to use their credit card phone when available.
    2) The reason all electronic devices are asked to be switched off and stowed away during takeoff and landing is because they are seen as potential distractions should the aircraft crash, skid off the runway, or should any other calamity occur that requires a quick and expedient evacuation.

    A few airlines are rolling out WiFi that becomes available once the aircraft is above 3000m/10000ft. I haven't had a chance to make use of it yet but there are a few times where it would have come in handy.
    03-15-09 09:16 AM
  17. lastraid's Avatar
    A few airlines are rolling out WiFi that becomes available once the aircraft is above 3000m/10000ft. I haven't had a chance to make use of it yet but there are a few times where it would have come in handy.
    When this rolls out and before too long I am sure they will figure out a way to charge an outrageous rate to use their WI-FI at 30,000 ft. as well. Just like other places that chrage to use their service. Air carriers these days do not give you anything for free. Now before you say you get a free soda, coffee, and peanuts. They are not free, but embedded in the cost of the ticket and if you do not partake then they make that much more.
    Last edited by lastraid; 03-15-09 at 09:26 AM.
    03-15-09 09:22 AM
  18. mattglobal's Avatar
    GSM runs well with WiFi - so what? The whiners never consider the reduced security, the dramatically higher radiation levels (brain dysfunction anyone?),
    According to this, there's no evidence that WiFi poses any danger to human life: BBC NEWS | Technology | Wi-fi health fears are 'unproven'

    And we all know that Wifi zaps your battery -- which is why I left it off most of the time. It's just a nice option to have.
    03-15-09 09:29 AM
  19. mattglobal's Avatar
    When this rolls out and before too long I am sure they will figure out a way to charge an outrageous rate to use their WI-FI at 30,000 ft. as well. Just like other places that chrage to use their service. Air carriers these days do not give you anything for free. Now before you say you get a free soda, coffee, and peanuts. They are not free, but embedded in the cost of the ticket and if you do not partake then they make that much more.
    Gogo Inflight Internet
    I've read that it's $12.95 for a flight of three hours or more, $9.95 for a flight inside three hours. Too bad T-Mobile HotSpot didn't get all over this...
    03-15-09 09:34 AM
  20. lastraid's Avatar
    Gogo Inflight Internet
    I've read that it's $12.95 for a flight of three hours or more, $9.95 for a flight inside three hours. Too bad T-Mobile HotSpot didn't get all over this...
    Thanks for the pricing info. Even if CDMA BB devices had WI-FI, I would take the time away from being on a leash, employers as well friends and family understand you cannot be reached while on plane for the most part. I will concede it would be a nice option in a severe emergency, but other than that, I would not want to give the airline another cent after being charged for an extra bag, etc. People think that Cell nickle and dime you death.
    03-15-09 09:40 AM
  21. mattglobal's Avatar
    I understand 100%. I've just been on the other end of the spectrum, touching down after a transatlantic flight to a dozen PIN messages, asking for info that could have been useful a few hours earlier.
    03-15-09 09:53 AM
  22. lastraid's Avatar
    I understand 100%. I've just been on the other end of the spectrum, touching down after a transatlantic flight to a dozen PIN messages, asking for info that could have been useful a few hours earlier.
    Interesting will need some more info about this. I was under the impression that PIN messages, BBM, and BIS use data. Therefore would not work on a WI-FI network cause they also depend on being on your carriers network as well. Global type of devices may differ as well.
    03-15-09 09:56 AM
  23. mattglobal's Avatar
    Interesting will need some more info about this. I was under the impression that PIN messages, BBM, and BIS use data. Therefore would not work on a WI-FI network cause they also depend on being on your carriers network as well. Global type of devices may differ as well.
    I can give you two examples:

    1) When I go to the basement in my office, I lose all signal from T-Mobile. But my 8320 would connect to the office's wireless router and calls, PINs, etc would come through just fine.

    2) One of my friends/coworkers was on a flight that was offering WiFi for free as part of their initial promotion. He sent us a PIN from midflight.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    03-15-09 10:28 AM
  24. jbinbi's Avatar
    1. RE OP. You don't know that the niagra does or does not have wifi. It should come out within a few months. CE thought it would have it. I have thought about going to ATT for wifi and gps, but figured afte being on vzw since it was bell atlantic, I can wait a few months to see.

    2. RE Battery Life: It definitely drains battery life, but most people would just turn it on in hotspots, and not just leave it on. Also, if you are in a spot where you can leave it on, then you can keep your phone plugged in. I don't see a need to leave it on for a 6 hour drive, but if you are stuck in an airport for 6 hrs, might be great.

    3. RE VZW not having wifi. Clearly they sell , as well as the other carriers, lot's of winmo phones that have wifi. And it uses up battery, but either you only turn it on when you need it, or you carry a spare battery. You don't see these guys carrying 6 spare batteries.

    We might all love vzw, but let's not be part of the another emperor's new clothes fable. The reason there are lots of phones that have wifi is because people want it and use it! I can't see lauding vzw for NOT putting in in, unless you gain something from it. If it's in the niagra and you don't want to drain your battery, then don't turn it on. you get that option.

    BTW, in airplanes, voice data goes via ground towers, you don't get a signal cause when you are at 30k feet you essentially see all towers and you are also 6mi away from any of them. SMS data goes via satellites, so SMS data will work.
    03-15-09 10:59 AM
  25. mattglobal's Avatar
    I got PINs from a blackberry that was midflight on a 757.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    03-15-09 11:44 AM
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