01-13-10 01:30 AM
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  1. Polychrome's Avatar
    If they spend your ETF on cotton candy, it doesn't change the fact that they let you buy out of your contract early.
    I almost had an Easy-Mac spittake when reading this.

    Man, weird mental image.

    That said, they'd never reward us for losing a contract... The full-retail price of a blackberry or other PDA is often in the realm of $500. This is NOT a recent development. Before the cellular-PDA days, a high-end Palm or mid-ranged Windows Mobile device was similarly priced. Providing a phone is ONLY for getting you on the assorted available services, NOT for directly turning a profit, at least as far as the cell company is concerned, so the device is often sold below-cost. FAR below cost. In case anyone hasn't noticed, there have been a large number of cheap-if-not-free and BOGO offers on PDAs in the past year and a half.

    I think that speaks for itself. ETFs exist to recoup the cost of hardware sold vastly below cost. Phones are sold at a loss with the expectation that your service will pay for it. The cost of the service itself includes new towers, maintenance, keeping us little workers employed, and yes, advertising. But that's why the service itself costs money.

    Edit to Add: As for Larry, well, let's see you build infrastructure for a cell network. Or hey, buy a fleet of 747s and start your own airline!

    There are reasons that some types of service have limited choice. This is why there are many, many restaurants and restaurant chains. (MUCH smaller investment to get started.)
    Last edited by Polychrome; 12-27-09 at 07:16 PM.
    12-27-09 07:11 PM
  2. Slingbox's Avatar
    they know this cenloe....its not even about that for him.......too many on here primarily those who WORK for VZW are just so darned consumed with supporting the brand that they don't even know how when the corporation ends and they begin....

    this isn't even an argument about anti trust anymore......its class warfare.....the rich just cant stand that the working class actually has a entity that will stand up and make the game fair.......

    they use ridiculous arguments about govt. becoming too involved......and use stupid words like socialism......capitalism and tea party....

    I started a whole new thread about this ....and I for one am glad that the prez. is pushing for a consumer protection agency and encouraging his agencies to squeeze the likes of VZW.....
    Now that makes MSNBC sense
    12-29-09 12:26 AM
  3. lastraid's Avatar
    Just a small update - FCC asks for info.
    01-09-10 07:13 AM
  4. Kepeli's Avatar
    I see VZW. I see PDA in VZW. I like PDA from VZW. I need PDA and SVC from VZW. I sign VZW contract. ETF is in VZW contract. VZW raise ETF. FCC finds out VZW no pay kickback from raising ETF. FCC investigates VZW ETF so VZW breakdown and kickback to FCC. VZW and FCC laugh and say FTW. The END.

    Moral of the Story: VZW and FCC do not care about UNI (you and I). VZW care about VZW. FCC care about FCC. Who UNI care for?
    01-09-10 11:09 PM
  5. TheScionicMan's Avatar
    I see VZW. I see PDA in VZW. I like PDA from VZW. I need PDA and SVC from VZW. I sign VZW contract. ETF is in VZW contract. VZW raise ETF.
    VZW raise ETF ONLY in NEW contract. You CHOOSE to SIGN or NOT.

    So easy, even a caveman can understand it...
    01-10-10 12:09 AM
  6. Kepeli's Avatar
    VZW raise ETF ONLY in NEW contract. You CHOOSE to SIGN or NOT.

    So easy, even a caveman can understand it...
    You do not understand the point of my post. I see Caveman does not possess Wisdom.
    01-10-10 12:37 AM
  7. vatothe0's Avatar
    You do not understand the point of my post. I see Caveman does not possess Wisdom.
    i see kepel used INT and WIS as dump stats......

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    01-10-10 12:56 AM
  8. Kepeli's Avatar
    i see kepel used INT and WIS as dump stats......

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    There is a difference between the two, but one would have to possess maturity and patience to understand.
    01-10-10 01:19 AM
  9. Kepeli's Avatar
    No offense intended to you both (vatothe0 and TheScionicMan), though. I welcomed your opinion and perception of my post.
    01-10-10 01:20 AM
  10. vatothe0's Avatar
    There is a difference between the two, but one would have to possess maturity and patience to understand.
    With all the points you saved, im sure you got a great dex.... its ok. Who doesn't love a good reflex defesnse and ac bunp.. =)

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    01-10-10 02:25 AM
  11. Kepeli's Avatar
    With all the points you saved, im sure you got a great dex.... its ok. Who doesn't love a good reflex defesnse and ac bunp.. =)

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Thank you for proving my point. Spelling and all.
    01-10-10 04:07 AM
  12. i7guy's Avatar
    I see VZW. I see PDA in VZW. I like PDA from VZW. I need PDA and SVC from VZW. I sign VZW contract. ETF is in VZW contract. VZW raise ETF. FCC finds out VZW no pay kickback from raising ETF. FCC investigates VZW ETF so VZW breakdown and kickback to FCC. VZW and FCC laugh and say FTW. The END.

    Moral of the Story: VZW and FCC do not care about UNI (you and I). VZW care about VZW. FCC care about FCC. Who UNI care for?
    We vote with our dollars, that's who UNI care for. We could bring VZW to it's nees and make ATT richer than rich as a collective. But that ain't happening. 'Cause I for one don't care about the higher ETFs I like the service.
    01-10-10 11:08 AM
  13. TheScionicMan's Avatar
    You do not understand the point of my post. I see Caveman does not possess Wisdom.
    Maybe if you communicated in normal english, it might help make your point. It sounds like a Fun with **** and Jane book AND you misrepresent an important factor of the ETF change. Sorry if I mistook your attempt at humor or whatever as a post that was relevant to the discussion...
    01-10-10 01:20 PM
  14. Kepeli's Avatar
    All kidding aside. Tough crowd. My humor was probably uncalled for in such a heated discussion topic. First of all, Verizon Wireless is a great company. I have been with them for almost two years, and I love their coverage and their service. I switched from T-Mobile (after being with them for over 10 years) because of the coverage and service change when I began my new business venture in another area. In no area of my post did I say I didn't like Verizon.

    The point I am making for my post is that Verizon's ETF is under scrutiny because the government is not able to cut into that increase. Verizon, looking to finalize this deal, will most likely send a kickback and then this issue will be buried somehow. Either that, or a lower ETF (with a leash attached) will be allowed or worst, Verizon will eliminate ETFs and thus can be allowed to sue delinquent accounts for breach of contract.

    An underlying reason for the ETFs raise is the companies P&L ratio. Any loss that is taken by the company has to be made up somewhere. A huge chunk of that loss can be attributed to a combination of things: poor workmanship builds by manufactures, fraudulent claims, delinquent accounts, overhead, etc.

    This situation is vital in that the outcome of this will determine what other companies will roll out in the near/far future as then a possible new bar may be set for others to follow. New terms might arise, new stipulations formulated, etc. Things could get really scary. Again, they might even do away with ETFs and be given the right to sue for breach of contract. It is not too far fetched. I'm a taxpayer, and I am paying for all of this, so you can guarantee I will be monitoring it's progress.

    My moral was that Verizon looks out for Verizon. FCC looks out for FCC. You and I have to look out for You and I. We have to educate each other and help each other because the companies or the government won't. Thanks to forums like these, we can express and voice our concerns for others to see, add, and, I as i have found out, criticize. It's all in the name of education.

    Lastly, in reading my posts, I apologize to those I lashed out at (mainly ScionicMan and vatothe0), as I thought I was being humorous. However, in retrospect, I could have been a bit more gentlemanly. Cheers.
    Last edited by Kepeli; 01-11-10 at 04:36 AM.
    01-10-10 11:46 PM
  15. Semantics's Avatar
    And cenloe, let me describe a situation you might understand. You have a bar. You and your customer enter into an implied contract when you sell them a drink on tab. You currently have a 25 dollar penalty on a breach of contract, ie a person writing you a bad check, thereby failing to uphold their end of the contract (reimbursing you).

    Lately, you have had a ton of a holes writing you bad checks, and its costing you money. You determine the need to raise your penalty on returned checks to 50 dollars to try and keep this from happening. At that time, the liquor control board (regulatory commission) steps in and says they feel its not in the interest of the consumer for this to happen, and makes you drop it.

    Is that fair? Same exact thing.


    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    This is a ridiculous analogy. The reason being, a business cannot dictate what they want to charge for a returned check. Much like the FCC trying to regulate the 350 charge, the states set a maximum amount you can recover on a returned check, and its a **** of a lot less than 50 dollars.

    What if Verizon said, okay, we're changing the ETF. If you break your contract, you're responsible for the entire cost of the phone, and fee's, so we'll make it 700 dollars for an ETF.

    350 dollars is unreasonable, the ETF is supposed to be for subsidy of the phone, not Joe Dirt's 12 dollar an hour salary, who is posting on Crackberry, while the thousands of ETF's are paying his and the other store clerks salary.

    Its the principle. If noone steps in and says hey, check yourself at the door buddy, you can't just make up a number and enforce it, then what is to stop that gluttonous company from saying lets put in a 700 dollar ETF?

    And to those posting in this thread that the FCC should not get involved, they're taking away our rights, blah..blah...blah...you'll be the first people jumping up and down and high fiving every within 100 feet of you, if the FCC decides to put the kibosh on exclusivity.

    Taxpayer money gets wasted, they spent 25 million dollars on the Mitchell Report, investigating baseball players who took steroids. Its a joke, and a sham. Welcome to America.
    01-11-10 12:06 AM
  16. gotblackberry's Avatar
    It's amazing when you can demean Verizon Employees by bringing up salary. I'm sure a lot of Verizon RSR's and even some CSRs with overtime make as much as a police officer does and do a lot less work.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    01-11-10 04:06 AM
  17. gotblackberry's Avatar
    If the etf is truly meant to be a phone subsidy then it makes sense an advanced device would have a higher ETF. The FCC isn't going to change anything, Verizons 350 ETF is here to stay from what I can see if you don't like it you can pay retail or go to another carrier.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    01-11-10 04:08 AM
  18. lastraid's Avatar
    I have one thing to say.

    Jan. 18th.

    I will not elaborate
    01-11-10 03:52 PM
  19. gettinthere's Avatar
    I have one thing to say.

    Jan. 18th.

    I will not elaborate
    And yet that still won't satisfy everyone.
    01-11-10 04:03 PM
  20. sjsjr's Avatar
    Being that I do not fully understand their policy (however I agree with the new ETF by the way) this may be completely wrong but didn't they leave a big loophole anyway? Can't you just activate an old dumb phone and it drops the ETF back down to $175? If that is the case I don't know why people are complaining. Just get an old flip phone, activate it, and then cancel.
    01-11-10 05:18 PM
  21. Semantics's Avatar
    It's amazing when you can demean Verizon Employees by bringing up salary. I'm sure a lot of Verizon RSR's and even some CSRs with overtime make as much as a police officer does and do a lot less work.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Its not demeaning to state someone makes 12 dollars an hour. ****, I made 3.35 an hour when I was in High School. Glad to see that CSR's are making six figures, that would explain why the ETF is so high.
    01-11-10 05:50 PM
  22. TheScionicMan's Avatar
    Being that I do not fully understand their policy (however I agree with the new ETF by the way) this may be completely wrong but didn't they leave a big loophole anyway? Can't you just activate an old dumb phone and it drops the ETF back down to $175? If that is the case I don't know why people are complaining. Just get an old flip phone, activate it, and then cancel.
    It's not based on what phone is currently on the service, it's what phone you got a discount on when you activated it and agreed to the contract.
    01-11-10 06:14 PM
  23. howie's Avatar
    I have one thing to say.

    Jan. 18th.

    I will not elaborate
    exactly. If that rumor is true that is crap
    01-11-10 06:19 PM
  24. Fuzzballz's Avatar
    If it benefits me that the gov't is involved, then plz more gov't intervention . My profession is so heavily regulated that I'm practically part of the gov't as it is

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    01-13-10 01:16 AM
  25. Fuzzballz's Avatar
    I have no love for big gov't or big business. I'd rather they be fighting than agreeing, because when they agree, the little guy (me) always gets the shaft.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    01-13-10 01:30 AM
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