01-13-10 01:30 AM
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  1. i7guy's Avatar
    you should read Free book: Beyond Plutocracy - Direct Democracy for America, Home/Table of Contents

    great insight into how your "thinking" is so typical of the corrupt capitalist.....the rich stay rich and the poor subsidize the rich's lifestyle

    and then when the only entity capable of protecting the working class and the poor (the govt.) imposes restrictions to level the playing field the elitist rich cry about wealth redistribution .....and overbearing regulation......

    the problem with your argument.....the 1st wealth redistribution was when the rich fleeced the working class by unfair market practices and corrupt antitrust markets and ETF's are a perfect example...........all we want is our fair share .....or at least a level playing field going forward.....read that book and get back to me.....LMAO

    and don't try to use that lame argument that nobody has to have a cell phone or a smartphone....we all know in todays society that cell technology is required as matter of safety.....especially if you have children....and if theres only 4 "real" carriers....well then we have a market where anti trust is a real threat....
    Larry there is a cure for plutocracy, it's called the first Tuesday in November, maybe you should try it sometime.

    Sorry I don't view your everyone has to have a cell phone for safety as a rational to purchase a blackberry. Very cheap pay as you plans can be had in almost every corner of the country.
    12-25-09 07:42 PM
  2. TheScionicMan's Avatar
    my M-I-L's phone service was out at her house since last night. My wife bought a phone at 7-11 for 20 bucks that included $10 in phone credit. No ETF....
    12-25-09 09:22 PM
  3. larrygump's Avatar
    Larry there is a cure for plutocracy, it's called the first Tuesday in November, maybe you should try it sometime.

    Sorry I don't view your everyone has to have a cell phone for safety as a rational to purchase a blackberry. Very cheap pay as you plans can be had in almost every corner of the country.
    so then you DIDN'T read the book?

    and the blackberry issue is a moot point......its only a matter of time till VZW tries the ETF game with standard voice customers......

    I think the public has had enough of VZW's antics....I remember there were fanboi's saying NY AG would NEVER win against VZW......yet VZW succumbed and paid out ? much..........millions......

    It will take time but mark my words......the FCC is beginning to slide their fingers around VZW's greedy little throat......

    MORE POWER TO THEM......MORE POWER TO THE FEDERAL CONSUMER PROTECTION AGENCY.....MORE POWER TO THE US DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE AND THEIR VZW/ATT PROBE!!!

    JUST MAKES MY DAY
    12-25-09 10:26 PM
  4. larrygump's Avatar
    I was reading the response from VzW and found this interesting:



    Very true.
    Not true.....judicial remedy would be limited to actual damages and not "potential" or unearned damages......see mischele V Sprint Co........excellent case law......

    contractual obligation can BE breached but only realized damages (IE ACTUAL LOSS) can be recovered from a RETAIL contract......unlike a business agreement or patent suit where intellectual property or other LIKE instruments are at play.

    In other words all VZW COULD NOT WOULD recover or hope for judgement for would be to recover device prorated value and actual used service costs.......NO judge thank god in the US would ever give judgement for full contract value nor should they.....since it is an unrealized earning.....and US COURTS don't give punitive awards in small claims cases or in RETAIL contract issues.....
    12-25-09 10:34 PM
  5. larrygump's Avatar
    my M-I-L's phone service was out at her house since last night. My wife bought a phone at 7-11 for 20 bucks that included $10 in phone credit. No ETF....
    This argument isn't even close to what were discussing......were discussing the ETF's on a reliable nationwide service with state of the art devices.....

    Applying ETF's that are anti consumer only discourage market growth and are purely punitive in nature......consumerist made a beautiful point....

    "My own theory is that, while everything Verizon wrote may be true, the real reason for the unbalanced prorating is that it ensures the ETF always remains higher than an average monthly bill, which makes it less appealing. Imagine if you were frustrated with Verizon at month 20 of a 24 month contract; if the ETF at that point was $65 instead of $160, you might be more willing to walk away from your contract. If Verizon prorated an even $15 per month instead of the $10 they now use, they might end up facing a lot more churn once the ETF drops below $100 or so."

    excellent observation
    12-25-09 10:43 PM
  6. fyrfyter's Avatar
    It's about time the FCC does something useful. Now if they just do this across the board, on all the carriers, as well as making an example of company as cocky as Verizon, we will be all set. Something tells me this whole FCC investigation is not just about ETFs and $1.99 web browsing fees. If people are being cheated, shouldn't this be investigated by the SEC and the Attorney General and not the FCC. I suspect there is some kind of warning taking place here, indicating that Big Red has done a big No No, as far as the FCC is concerned, and this is the way to get back at them. This should be fun to watch play out......
    12-25-09 10:45 PM
  7. larrygump's Avatar
    Thank You Brother!!!! leave it to a brother in arms to see the light!!!

    just goes to show you how right us blue collar guys have it
    12-25-09 10:51 PM
  8. jahoobob's Avatar
    I was reading the response from VzW and found this interesting:



    Very true.
    I can see it now. The government tells Verizon they can't charge a $350 ETF and Verizon does away with ALL ETFs and simply charges the amount of money it would cost to maintain an account to the end of the contract. That would be $69.98/month (lowest cost basic plan plus $29.99 BIS fee) for a smart phone. Someone with a 2 yr contract would break even ($350 vs $69.98/month) at 5 months remaining on a contract. Anything greater than that would cost more than $350. I hope the FCC comes down hard on VZW forcing Verizon to go this route. I hate do gooders who don't consider what the unintended consequences could be.
    12-26-09 01:37 AM
  9. jahoobob's Avatar
    It's about time the FCC does something useful. Now if they just do this across the board, on all the carriers, as well as making an example of company as cocky as Verizon, we will be all set. Something tells me this whole FCC investigation is not just about ETFs and $1.99 web browsing fees. If people are being cheated, shouldn't this be investigated by the SEC and the Attorney General and not the FCC. I suspect there is some kind of warning taking place here, indicating that Big Red has done a big No No, as far as the FCC is concerned, and this is the way to get back at them. This should be fun to watch play out......
    SEC deals only with thing like shady stock and securities dealings not with things like what companies charge their customers. The FTC may be about what you're thinking.
    12-26-09 01:40 AM
  10. i7guy's Avatar
    so then you DIDN'T read the book?

    and the blackberry issue is a moot point......its only a matter of time till VZW tries the ETF game with standard voice customers......

    I think the public has had enough of VZW's antics....I remember there were fanboi's saying NY AG would NEVER win against VZW......yet VZW succumbed and paid out ? much..........millions......

    It will take time but mark my words......the FCC is beginning to slide their fingers around VZW's greedy little throat......

    MORE POWER TO THEM......MORE POWER TO THE FEDERAL CONSUMER PROTECTION AGENCY.....MORE POWER TO THE US DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE AND THEIR VZW/ATT PROBE!!!

    JUST MAKES MY DAY
    I don't need to read any book to note if you are unhappy with the way things are you have the power to change it. I'm thinking you don't really take advantage of the opportunity offered to you in November and would rather crib about how the eliteists(both dems and repubs) control the country.
    12-26-09 06:20 AM
  11. i7guy's Avatar
    I can see it now. The government tells Verizon they can't charge a $350 ETF and Verizon does away with ALL ETFs and simply charges the amount of money it would cost to maintain an account to the end of the contract. That would be $69.98/month (lowest cost basic plan plus $29.99 BIS fee) for a smart phone. Someone with a 2 yr contract would break even ($350 vs $69.98/month) at 5 months remaining on a contract. Anything greater than that would cost more than $350. I hope the FCC comes down hard on VZW forcing Verizon to go this route. I hate do gooders who don't consider what the unintended consequences could be.
    It would really be the entire industry. People like "you know who" would then be cribbing how private enterprise wants to rip of consumers.
    12-26-09 06:22 AM
  12. larrygump's Avatar
    nah.....just the markets where you have limited choice.......like telco....airlines......and the like......


    Im gonna keep pushing too....and so are my friends....co workers.....neighbors.....family


    thanks for reminding me why Im doing this
    12-26-09 09:15 AM
  13. i7guy's Avatar
    nah.....just the markets where you have limited choice.......like telco....airlines......and the like......


    Im gonna keep pushing too....and so are my friends....co workers.....neighbors.....family


    thanks for reminding me why Im doing this
    Limited choice, I have limited choice with my sewer provider and water provider. I think I can pick my electric provider. I have a virtually unlimited number of choices with my telco provider. And a pretty good selection of my wireless providers. Last time I was in a major airport, there were terminals upon terminals of airlines. Yeah you are right, limited choices. Thanks for reminding me of why the first Tuesday in November is very, very important. By the way do you take advantage of it? Or is it do as I say and not as I do?
    12-26-09 03:27 PM
  14. larrygump's Avatar
    I most certainly vote......however I'm pretty unhappy with that process too.....kind of a pick my left hand or right hand either way you get me situation though.....

    and BTW sewer and water is strictly regulated where I am.....as is power.....since here in VA we have only 1 choice......and you have lots of airline choices due to government anti trust laws......so see you made my point for me........how govt. isn't always the best....but its the best we have and its a necessity that we regulate business......since its really the only entity we have available to the masses to keep the game fair......


    just think if there was no regulation where we'de be right now.......1 land line phone provider........ Microsoft wouldn't have to play fair.......energy/electricity would charge folks virtually unchecked and far higher rates than currently found.....
    12-26-09 03:55 PM
  15. coronaboy10's Avatar
    I'm reading it Larry. I'm very interested in this. And I've always wondered what a truly representative government could look like and how it would work. If we all were fully represented the way we're taught to believe many of the problems that we're facing right now may not even be with us.
    12-26-09 04:29 PM
  16. larrygump's Avatar
    Its good stuff......I was only just recently made aware of it and man....its inspiring stuff.......Ive always been a guy who's worried about those less fortunate.....and disgusted with those that take advantage of the less fortunate......
    12-26-09 04:45 PM
  17. coronaboy10's Avatar
    Now I'll have to reinstall docs to go so I can read it on my bb.
    12-26-09 05:37 PM
  18. i7guy's Avatar
    I'm reading it Larry. I'm very interested in this. And I've always wondered what a truly representative government could look like and how it would work. If we all were fully represented the way we're taught to believe many of the problems that we're facing right now may not even be with us.
    Theres a reason we are here today in this situation, it all started years ago when the government strong armed the banks to lend to......never mind there are those who don't understand.
    12-26-09 05:39 PM
  19. larrygump's Avatar
    Theres a reason we are here today in this situation, it all started years ago when the government strong armed the banks to lend to......never mind there are those who don't understand.
    yeah go ahead bigot.......say it........you racist *****......

    it started when fat cat rich white "capitalists" forced deregulation down out throats.....

    I love it.....bigots just cant bite their tongues can they
    12-26-09 08:04 PM
  20. i7guy's Avatar
    yeah go ahead bigot.......say it........you racist *****......

    it started when fat cat rich white "capitalists" forced deregulation down out throats.....

    I love it.....bigots just cant bite their tongues can they
    You're a dodo and have no idea of what you are talking about. Bigotry and racism have nothing to do with forcing banks to lend money to people who they knew could not repay the loan. You're the worst type of bigot deflecting away from yourself by calling people what you are.

    Deregulation gives you choices and gives the entrepeneur the ability to take advantage of the freedom in this country.

    It appears some people might have been right about certain regulations. (Not u)

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Last edited by i7guy; 12-26-09 at 10:35 PM.
    12-26-09 10:32 PM
  21. Branta's Avatar
    Larry Gump will be excluded from the forums while he sobers up from Christmas festivities. Hopefully a short break will concentrate his attention on the niceties of online etiquette.

    How please terminate the fighting and insult trading. This is supposed to be the season of friendship and goodwill.
    12-27-09 05:37 AM
  22. i7guy's Avatar
    If one looks at who the FCC has investigated, not investigated or decided not to investigate one sees it's a very long a complex process.

    The fact the FCC is "investigating" Verizon means nothing. ETFs give the consumer a way out of contract, in exchange for a subsidized phone, without being sued and without having a notation made on the credit report.

    While in some dream worlds, wireless companies should be giving phones and data plans away for virtually nothing, in truth most companies have plans for less fortunate. A company is not required to give away the ship because some one says so and the government shouldn't be interfering.

    Any interference on ETFs from the FCC I believe will work against the consumer, but we shall see.
    12-27-09 02:52 PM
  23. gotblackberry's Avatar
    Agreed.

    10char
    12-27-09 03:03 PM
  24. i7guy's Avatar
    Agreed.

    10char
    I don't understand why deregulation is viewed as bad thing. It's government getting out of it's own way. Deregulation is good (telecommunications), loss of transparency is bad (Enron).

    Deregulation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Last edited by i7guy; 12-27-09 at 03:17 PM.
    12-27-09 03:14 PM
  25. itsthemusic's Avatar
    nah.....just the markets where you have limited choice.......like telco....airlines......and the like......


    Im gonna keep pushing too....and so are my friends....co workers.....neighbors.....family


    thanks for reminding me why Im doing this


    Whats up.......with the.............periods?
    12-27-09 03:23 PM
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