08-20-14 06:37 AM
33 12
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  1. FF22's Avatar
    I know that when I grab a new device from Verizon that my monthly bill obviously includes a certain amount to pay-off the subsidized rate for the phone. If I cancelled my contract before it had expired, I would have to pay a penalty based on the "remaining value" (or whatever). But now that my contract naturally expired and I have not taken advantage of any upgrade, should my monthly bill be reduced? Well, I know - HA, HA. But is there any negotiation room with Verizon. Anyone ever follow up on this type of issue?

    Background: Old grandfathered calling plan, UNlimited data, I purchased a brand new Z10 privately - got sim from Verizon and insurance since no warranty since I was not original purchaser.

    Thanks for any insights (or incites!)
    05-28-14 11:12 AM
  2. SmileDahling's Avatar
    Commented so I can keep track of any insightful responses.

    Posted via my beautiful Q10
    05-28-14 11:41 AM
  3. BigAl_BB9900's Avatar
    I know that when I grab a new device from Verizon that my monthly bill obviously includes a certain amount to pay-off the subsidized rate for the phone. If I cancelled my contract before it had expired, I would have to pay a penalty based on the "remaining value" (or whatever). But now that my contract naturally expired and I have not taken advantage of any upgrade, should my monthly bill be reduced? Well, I know - HA, HA. But is there any negotiation room with Verizon. Anyone ever follow up on this type of issue?

    Background: Old grandfathered calling plan, UNlimited data, I purchased a brand new Z10 privately - got sim from Verizon and insurance since no warranty since I was not original purchaser.

    Thanks for any insights (or incites!)
    From your background info - I am assuming that you want to keep elements of your old plan (eg the grandfathered part), that might not be readily available in a new contract

    My recommendation is to review all the options for a new sim-only contract with your incumbent supplier, and then do the same again for the competition.

    Then..... call the retentions team at your incumbent supplier and see what they will give you. Haggle a bit!

    This approach can work wonders in the UK and some of the rest of Europe, no reason why it shouldn't anywhere else. (I've never had less than a 10% discount - it's usually more - and some added goodies thrown in too, whenever I have taken this approach with UK and Spanish suppliers)

    Good Luck!
    Donnierock likes this.
    05-28-14 11:45 AM
  4. blueyestm's Avatar
    Verizon must do things differently because if I get a phone on contract with AT&T I pay a monthly fee. 2 years go by and I'm off contract but my plan stays the same. I was never charged for the phone, it's just being "on" contract for 2 years.

    So you were actually paying for the phone too or what? Because I think maybe you have been either misinformed by a sales rep or didn't quite understand it as usually all cell companies do this normally. I was on T-Mobile and it was the same thing. Just because you're off contract doesn't mean the price goes down and if you have a grandfathered plan, you change one speck of it and the entire thing is null and void.
    05-28-14 11:49 AM
  5. grover5's Avatar
    Verizon must do things differently because if I get a phone on contract with AT&T I pay a monthly fee. 2 years go by and I'm off contract but my plan stays the same. I was never charged for the phone, it's just being "on" contract for 2 years.

    So you were actually paying for the phone too or what? Because I think maybe you have been either misinformed by a sales rep or didn't quite understand it as usually all cell companies do this normally. I was on T-Mobile and it was the same thing. Just because you're off contract doesn't mean the price goes down and if you have a grandfathered plan, you change one speck of it and the entire thing is null and void.
    Actually verizon and at&t include the cost of the phone in your monthly bill. It's just hidden. TMO shows the cost up front and once you pay it off your monthly bill goes down as it no longer includes the price of the phone. Since verizon and at&t hide the cost of the phone in their monthly bills they don't feel the need to drop your monthly bill once it's paid off.

    Posted via CB10
    05-28-14 11:55 AM
  6. Ment's Avatar
    This approach can work wonders in the UK and some of the rest of Europe, no reason why it shouldn't anywhere else. (I've never had less than a 10% discount - it's usually more - and some added goodies thrown in too, whenever I have taken this approach with UK and Spanish suppliers)

    Good Luck!
    You made me smile. It doesn't work that way here in the US. Carriers don't care if you live or die they make the rules.
    kbz1960 and Donnierock like this.
    05-28-14 11:55 AM
  7. blueyestm's Avatar
    Actually verizon and at&t include the cost of the phone in your monthly bill. It's just hidden. TMO shows the cost up front and once you pay it off your monthly bill goes down as it no longer includes the price of the phone. Since verizon and at&t hide the cost of the phone in their monthly bills they don't feel the need to drop your monthly bill once it's paid off.

    Posted via CB10
    What do you mean hide? Where? Because I look at my bill each month and it's the same charges minus my corporate discount.
    05-28-14 12:00 PM
  8. grover5's Avatar
    What do you mean hide? Where? Because I look at my bill each month and it's the same charges minus my corporate discount.
    The rates they are charging you include the cost of the phone. They inflate the monthly rates to cover the cost but once it is paid off they don't drop the price. It's one reason they are so much more expensive than TMO is once the phone on TMO Is paid off. A family of four would get unlimited minutes and texts and one GB of high speed data per line and unlimited edge speed after that for $100 before taxes. That's the rate once the phones are paid for. You can't get that rate from verizon because they built the cost of the phone into their rate. Even once you pay it off its still in there.

    Posted via CB10
    05-28-14 12:07 PM
  9. blueyestm's Avatar
    I still don't think that's correct. When we did our contract at the hospital we were given an upfront price and that wasn't even including a phone because most of us brought our own at the beginning. I'm still paying the same price I did years ago when I moved to AT&T whether I go "on contract" or not depending on if I'm cheap one year and don't want to buy my phone outright which normally I do.
    05-28-14 12:20 PM
  10. kbz1960's Avatar
    I still don't think that's correct. When we did our contract at the hospital we were given an upfront price and that wasn't even including a phone because most of us brought our own at the beginning. I'm still paying the same price I did years ago when I moved to AT&T whether I go "on contract" or not depending on if I'm cheap one year and don't want to buy my phone outright which normally I do.
    What he is saying is that some carriers add the cost of the phone on your monthly bill. Some however never remove this after the phone is paid off and some like tmo do. Whether or not you bought outright or on a contract.
    05-28-14 12:35 PM
  11. grover5's Avatar
    I still don't think that's correct. When we did our contract at the hospital we were given an upfront price and that wasn't even including a phone because most of us brought our own at the beginning. I'm still paying the same price I did years ago when I moved to AT&T whether I go "on contract" or not depending on if I'm cheap one year and don't want to buy my phone outright which normally I do.
    I'm fine agreeing to disagree. The whole uncarrier campaign by Tmobile was intended to finally show transparency in rate structure. They did this by showing the actual cost of the phone in the rate which had always been hidden in the rates of the past. Verizon and AT&T have yet to show how they pay for the cost of the phone in their rates. When you get a galaxy S5 on contract for $200, Verizon isn't paying the other $450 cost of the phone themselves. They've placed that cost in their rate.
    05-28-14 12:38 PM
  12. seretse's Avatar
    D-March is correct. That's one way how Verizon manages to make these absurd profits. You ALWAYS get charged for your smart phone (built into their plans), even if you paid full price for your phone upfront, or if you've completed your 2 year contract. It's crazy that we've allowed US carriers to get away with this practice for so long. No matter what you think about T-Mobile, kudos to them for doing the right thing re this matter - they reduce the monthly price once the phone is paid for.
    kbz1960 and Donnierock like this.
    05-28-14 12:49 PM
  13. AnimalPak200's Avatar
    I think you are misunderstanding the "agreement."

    You aren't technically paying for your phone as part of your monthly bill.

    I assumed you got a free (or much reduced device) when you first signed up for that original 2-year contract. At that point, you got the free/cheap device "in exchange for agreeing to subscribe for their service for a minimum period of two years." They gave you the device and met their end of the deal, you stayed for two years and met yours. Done. If you stay for longer... that's completely up to you, but they never promised you anything in exchange for that.

    So what I'm saying is, although from the carrier's perspective they are "subsidizing" handsets, they are doing so not by "giving you a loan" for its full value and amortizing the cost to your bill over time, but by retaining your service fees for at least two years.

    You can get a new discounted device by again agreeing to subscribe for another two years (i.e. Sign another contract). But the bottom line is that you "paid" for your device with a time commitment, not the monthly fee per se.

    Posted via CB10
    kbz1960 and reeneebob like this.
    05-28-14 12:51 PM
  14. LoneStarRed's Avatar
    Transparency is to be avoided at all costs for most wireless carries as well as cable companies.

    Posted via CB10
    05-28-14 12:54 PM
  15. grover5's Avatar
    I think you are misunderstanding the "agreement."

    You aren't technically paying for your phone as part of your monthly bill.

    I assumed you got a free (or much reduced device) when you first signed up for that original 2-year contract. At that point, you got the free/cheap device "in exchange for agreeing to subscribe for their service for a minimum period of two years." They gave you the device and met their end of the deal, you stayed for two years and met yours. Done. If you stay for longer... that's completely up to you, but they never promised you anything in exchange for that.

    So what I'm saying is, although from the carrier's perspective they are "subsidizing" handsets, they are doing so not by "giving you a loan" for its full value and amortizing the cost to your bill over time, but by retaining your service fees for at least two years.

    You can get a new discounted device by again agreeing to subscribe for another two years (i.e. Sign another contract). But the bottom line is that you "paid" for your device with a time commitment, not the monthly fee per se.

    Posted via CB10
    I understand the agreement. It just means Verizon and AT&T can continue to charge you a rate based in part on a phone cost that you've already paid off. They do this to continue to make more money off you. I buy my phones outright and use TMO for my cell services and pay significantly less because I prefer that agreement.
    seretse likes this.
    05-28-14 12:56 PM
  16. seretse's Avatar
    I understand the agreement just fine. You argument folds however when customers provide their own phones or pay full price for a new phone up front. Why are they being forced to pay for a subsidy they never used?

    But anyway, it's a free market system we have here, so good for Verizon that they continue to "get away with this practice".
    05-28-14 01:18 PM
  17. AnimalPak200's Avatar
    I understand the agreement. It just means Verizon and AT&T can continue to charge you a rate based in part on a phone cost that you've already paid off. They do this to continue to make more money off you. I buy my phones outright and use TMO for my cell services and pay significantly less because I prefer that agreement.
    That's a smart choice, but many don't (or didn't used to) go for that when they originally sign the traditional two year contract with VZW. Like I said, you pay with your committed time. Once that is over, you don't get any lesser fees (because they contractually never had anything to do with your handset anyway), but you are no longer required to "pay" with more of your time (i.e. You can discontinue using their service without any penalty).

    Posted via CB10
    05-28-14 01:19 PM
  18. NYMETSFAN86's Avatar
    All the more reason for you to drop Verizon and go to T-Mobile. Even with whatever the monthly "interest free" phone payment is, it's still cheaper than what you'd pay with Verizon and you'd also get more data included and NO overages and NO tethering charges. Also, if you were to stay with VZW and need a new phone, they may not grandfather that plan anymore as they are notorious for that. Lastly, T-Mobile will give you a trade-in credit for your Verizon device.

    Keep in mind that VZW (ATT and Sprint as well) have not been gaining customers while T-Mobile has been doing so. If you're a person that doesn't get a new phone every 2 years then you'll really benefit since your T-Mobile bill will drop once your phone is paid off. Remember that you can always pay your phone off early so your bill will reflect that savings even sooner.
    05-28-14 01:58 PM
  19. FF22's Avatar
    Thanks for all of the replies. I had a feeling folks would react two ways.

    I guess some feel that the phone is free/cheap as a bonus for signing a two year contract and does not figure into the monthly cost. And the "penalty" fee is for breaking the contract and has nothing to do with paying the cost of that initially subsidized phone (since according to some, it was NOT subsidized but thrown in generously).

    Yes, to get another "subsidized or NOT" phone I can sign a new contract but that would entail giving up my UNlimited data. They don't seem to care about my very old, limited, grandfathered calling plan. They have been carrying that one forward for at least 10 years (if I can figure out when my clutch died on I-90 (no cell phone at that time), I can figure out when I finally got a cell phone!).

    Verizon's Loyalty Dept called me within the month looking to see if there were a better plan for me. He clearly knew in advance there were none and he suggested each one and then noted it was not better or cheaper and each would further require loss of UNlimited data. Go Fish, as they say. I might consider changing carriers.

    Keep those cards and letters coming.
    05-28-14 03:36 PM
  20. allisos's Avatar
    Verizon secured contracts with a "termination" fee. That is how your two year contract was subsidized. If you cancelled the contract, you would then pay a pro-rated rate for the phone. There is no hidden rate in the contract... It was plain as day. When you buy a phone outright, you don't need a contract other than to get a discounted rate. And then the early termination fee pays for the discount you received, if you leave the contract.
    05-28-14 03:57 PM
  21. kbz1960's Avatar
    Just think about coverage F2
    05-28-14 04:00 PM
  22. grover5's Avatar
    Just think about coverage F2
    That is key. TMO is improving rapidly in that area but verizon is clearly king for coverage.

    Posted via CB10
    05-28-14 04:04 PM
  23. dcwbearsaint's Avatar
    I am certainly not defending AT&T here as I have been screwed in the past for the same situation. However, I just bit the bullet and converted my family over to their new plans. The trick to them is that if I want an upgrade, there will not be a separate line item for that subsidized phone on that line. My family (5 lines) dropped $100 a month but I did lose my unlimited data (but for years I have never needed more than 2GB). Anyway, I think the big carriers are changing thanks to TMO as well as offering other brands like Cricket (I think) to deal with the bring you own phone but have the same backend network. Since you are not in a contract...shop it. Grandfather data for me cost me thousands for trying to hold on to it as long as I did.
    05-28-14 04:13 PM
  24. FF22's Avatar
    Just think about coverage F2
    That is the most compelling argument. Especially since I do go to remote places in the US with so-so coverage.
    05-28-14 10:55 PM
  25. FF22's Avatar
    Verizon secured contracts with a "termination" fee. That is how your two year contract was subsidized. If you cancelled the contract, you would then pay a pro-rated rate for the phone. There is no hidden rate in the contract... It was plain as day. When you buy a phone outright, you don't need a contract other than to get a discounted rate. And then the early termination fee pays for the discount you received, if you leave the contract.
    So there was some kind of charge for the phone even if buried in a contract calling for termination fees?

    So, if I walked into Verizon today and SIGNED a new contract but passed on any phone upgrade I would get some reduced monthly rate? I don't think so.
    SmileDahling likes this.
    05-28-14 10:58 PM
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