04-18-09 02:25 PM
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  1. FF22's Avatar
    I understand, some of my best friends are Libertarian. We do get into some interesting, ahem, discussions. Go on a three-week hiking/camping trip with each other and hope the only blood is from a skinned knee scrambling over a rocky slope!!! (g)

    Now back to our regularly scheduled gps-for-free flame war.......
    04-16-09 10:26 PM
  2. MikesWife's Avatar
    where on the vzw website does it say that the curve is "GPS enabled" instead of "VZ Navigator capable" There is a difference and the latter of the two means that they are advertizing it for the feature you would use for navigation thru them, not the overal functionality of GPS.
    04-16-09 10:44 PM
  3. shchasm's Avatar
    Does anyone have any advice on how to begin a class action lawsuit. I am disgusted that Verizon has and continues to block GPS signals on its devices. I have the Curve and when I purchased it, I was under the impression my device had GPS capabilities. We all know the deal-just pay 9.99 a month and verizon will activate. We should as a whole BB connunity try to file a lawsuit against verizon to have this practice changed. Any legal advice and help would be great.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Class action lawsuit? It would be like saying your gonna sue Chevy because they advertised they had On-Star capable vehicles, then getting mad that you have to pay extra for that service. You have the option to return the phone and get all your money back.
    04-16-09 11:06 PM
  4. FF22's Avatar
    The thread goes back too far and the facts, at this point, are obscure. It may be true that the current advertising/packaging/whatever are a bit more clear and even some reps are clear about what is what, but way back when, there are hints that verizon was not as clear as to what "having gps" might have meant to BB purchasers. There are also comments that RIM changed its ads/whatever since the original release of some of these BB's - saying contact your carrier. Maybe Rim put pressure on Verizon to at least allow BBmaps to work, so that Rim can compete a little more against units that do have functioning gps' without extra payments.

    I don't know what the facts are back then. But I still read about reps saying the units have gps. But that might be vague.

    I'll ask whomever - do the Verizon BB's now work with some gps programs? Which ones? Shall the answers be sorted out by those who come next.

    While it appears that OS 4.5 allows BBmaps to work with the internal gps, it appears that so far, Verizon has not released it for the 8830. Now the question, again, which units allow gps when folks say verizon has unlocked it for BBmaps. Well, maybe, sort of, kind of.

    What I'm saying is some people MIGHT have a legitimate beef (they were deceived) and some may not. Most of us don't really know.

    Also some companies succumb to public pressure and some don't. So keep applying the friction and maybe something will change or maybe it won't.

    Maybe this long thread will inform folks or just confuse the heck out of them. They might ask a few more questions of verizon and maybe or may not take their business elsewhere.
    04-16-09 11:32 PM
  5. dbanks317's Avatar
    I think it is crazy. I have a verizon wireless bb 8330. When I go into my pic options there is an option to enable or disable the gps for geotagging. When I talked to the rep at my local vzw store he told me my bb should not even offer that option and said I could not have the same phone they sold me. Further more my friend has the same phone for sprint and has geotagging. COME ON VZW QUIT GOUGING YOUR CUSTOMERS AND COME WITH THE FEATURES. Or I maybe forced to switch to another company. You cheap *** bastards!!!

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    04-16-09 11:39 PM
  6. shchasm's Avatar
    30 days. You can get every bit of your money back. Always been verizon's policy to my knowledge. If you bought a product and didn't check to see If it functioned the way you wanted it to, then that's completly your fault. If you did check, and kept the phone anyway, then you just want something for free that you knew you couldn't get. You can sue all you want....you will not succeed.
    04-16-09 11:50 PM
  7. shchasm's Avatar
    Now if the phone made your face melt off...then you might have a leg to stand on.
    04-16-09 11:53 PM
  8. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    Class action lawsuit? It would be like saying your gonna sue Chevy because they advertised they had On-Star capable vehicles, then getting mad that you have to pay extra for that service. You have the option to return the phone and get all your money back.
    I tried that analogy before in this thread. Few understood it.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    04-17-09 12:12 AM
  9. dbanks317's Avatar
    My phone didn't offer the geotagging choice until I updated the os to 4.5. So what's the deal with that.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    04-17-09 08:45 AM
  10. lastraid's Avatar
    If I am not mistaken, Geotagging while an option on the Pearl and Curve, the way GPS is set up in those devices dictates that it will not work. It should work for the Storm.
    04-17-09 08:50 AM
  11. LadyBug1383's Avatar
    Class action lawsuit? It would be like saying your gonna sue Chevy because they advertised they had On-Star capable vehicles, then getting mad that you have to pay extra for that service. You have the option to return the phone and get all your money back.
    I agree with shchasm on this one.
    04-17-09 09:30 AM
  12. RicanMedic78's Avatar
    I agree with shchasm on this one.
    Very bad analogy! Onstar is a separate company that is partnered with GM and profits on its own device system.

    RIM nor any other 3rd party are trying to capitolize on GPS fees except Verizon, which had nothing to do with the cost, maintainence, or installation of the chip.

    A better analogy is your car am/fm tuner made by pioneer and GM locking it down and charging a service fee to operate when it was never the intent of Pioneer to operate this way.
    04-17-09 09:47 AM
  13. RicanMedic78's Avatar
    And I will also add that the only thing that ties Verizon to any control over its GPS is the assisted network feature of the chip, meaning aGPS.

    However, we as blackberry users pay for unlimited data on our devices so to lock down our features because of some sort of preservation of its network is rediculous! If we're talking about Verizon charging separate fees for tethering or something similar, this is understandable in that we are talking about HUGE amounts of data that clearly warrant a different category of use.

    However, for GPS..... I can promise you that my hour's use of Pandora radio will drop 100 times more data use from my device then a 24 hour period with a little GPS!

    So locking down GPS claiming its a network data hog is just as rediculous as the excuses that they came up with before and keep on changing the more we inquire!

    We are in the right here and Verizon is the only one adopting these tactics, hense the popular phase attached to their name "nickle and diming!" What I continuously fail to understand is how so many non-employees defend this and argue for paying MORE for services they should not be paying for... Or at the very least, not paying more for just one monopolized product (vz nav)!
    Last edited by RicanMedic78; 04-17-09 at 10:30 AM.
    04-17-09 10:09 AM
  14. bagOdonuts's Avatar
    I'm going to sue this thread for having 30 pages of rubbish

    Just feeding the troll

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    04-17-09 10:10 AM
  15. shchasm's Avatar
    Very bad analogy! Onstar is a separate company that is partnered with GM and profits on its own device system.

    RIM nor any other 3rd party are trying to capitolize on GPS fees except Verizon, which had nothing to do with the cost, maintainence, or installation of the chip.

    A better analogy is your car am/fm tuner made by pioneer and GM locking it down and charging a service fee to operate when it was never the intent of Pioneer to operate this way.
    I guess RIM shouldn't have agreed to the terms of the contract they signed with verizon to sell their products then. The point is...you can't win the lawsuit. RIM knew verizon was gonna make it proprietary. Verizon's base line objective is to make a profit and sell their products as well. How many 3rd party apps exist for Onstar or for the am/fm radio?
    Last edited by shchasm; 04-17-09 at 10:21 AM. Reason: forget to add information
    04-17-09 10:18 AM
  16. shchasm's Avatar
    And I will also add that the only thing that ties Verizon to any control over its GPS is the assisted network feature of the chip, meaning aGPS.

    However, we as blackberry users pay for unlimited data on our devices so to lock down our features because of some sort of preservation of its network is rediculous! If we're talking about Verizon charging separate fees for tethering or something similar, this is understandable in that we are talking about HUGE amounts of data that clearly warrant a different category of use.

    However, for GPS..... I can promise you that my hour's use of Pandora radio will drop 100 times more data use from my device then a 24 hour period with a little GPS!

    So locking down GPS claiming its a network data hog is just as rediculous as the excuses that they came up with before and keep on changing the more we inquire!
    I totally agree with you Rican that verizon should unlock the gps on all their devices. It would be nice for their consumers. But are you saying you can sue them over it? You knew the terms...just buy a different phone or go to another carrier. I'm just saying that it's a frivolous lawsuit.
    Last edited by shchasm; 04-17-09 at 10:37 AM. Reason: Grammer
    04-17-09 10:31 AM
  17. RicanMedic78's Avatar
    I guess RIM shouldn't have agreed to the terms of the contract they signed with verizon to sell their products then. The point is...you can't win the lawsuit. RIM knew verizon was gonna make it proprietary. Verizon's base line objective is to make a profit and sell their products as well. How many 3rd party apps exist for Onstar or for the am/fm radio?
    Your probably right. RIM bows down to big red.Thanks for pointing that out. But does it make it right for the consumer? And should you be defending Verizon for doing it this way and hurting your wallet with an unfair tactic?

    And yes, Verizons goal is to make a profit! But at all cost as well? And your going to sit here and justify it for them while you just pay more and more??? How silly do u want to look?

    Now as far as a lawsuit, I don't know. But as a layman in US law, if u want to call me that, I see a potential lawsuit, not in the blocking of GPS, but in the monopolizing of VZ Navigator.

    If your going to block GPS, you have to block it across the board! You can't claim your reasoning for it blocked, and then let ONLY your software access it... And of course, for a fee! (Motive)

    I believe Microsoft lost a case on very very similar grounds a few years back before Vista came to light. Anyone remember how they tried to monopolize its browser and other programs and eliminate 3rd party software from most of its OS??? Sounds to me like a clear case to me in this area! Its just a matter of who initiates the complaint first.

    And trust me, this isn't another waistful case of suing for 80 million for a lost pair of pants! This has strong merit!

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Last edited by RicanMedic78; 04-17-09 at 10:44 AM.
    04-17-09 10:41 AM
  18. shchasm's Avatar
    Your probably right. RIM bows down to big red.Thanks for pointing that out. But does it make it right for the consumer? And should you be defending Verizon for doing it this way and hurting your wallet with an unfair tactic?

    And yes, Verizons goal is to make a profit! But at all cost as well? And your going to sit here and justify it for them while you just pay more and more??? How silly do u want to look?

    Now as far as a lawsuit, I don't know. But as a layman in US law, if u want to call me that, I see a potential lawsuit, not in the blocking of GPS, but in the monopolizing of VZ Navigator.

    If your going to block GPS, you have to block it across the board! You can't claim your reasoning for it blocked, and then let ONLY your software access it... And of course, for a fee! (Motive)

    I believe Microsoft lost a case on very very similar grounds a few years back before Vista came to light. Anyone remember how they tried to monopolize its browser and other programs and eliminate 3rd party software from most of its OS??? Sounds to me like a clear case to me in this area! Its just a matter of who initiates the complaint first.

    And trust me, this isn't another waistful case of suing for 80 million for a lost pair of pants! This has strong merit!

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

    I don't pay more and more.....It's unlocked on my storm, I pay nothing to use my gps. I had a choice- Pay for for somthing I didn't want or.....Pay for somthing I wanted. Everyone else has that choice, you could've bought another phone or used a different carrier. I can use any third party app that I want.

    By your reasoning I can sue Verizon for making me use them as a carrier when I purchases one of their phones.

    Don't get me wrong I hate that verizon is such a good network and that I have to pay a little more for a quality service....but no one is forcing me...I could go to Cricket!
    Last edited by shchasm; 04-17-09 at 11:06 AM. Reason: spelling
    04-17-09 10:56 AM
  19. shchasm's Avatar
    Verizon hurts my wallet no matter what they do. I think their prices are really high. Like I said...I don't pay for GPS it's unlocked on my phone.
    But I could go somewhere else.

    I Like your ability to argue this point Rican, but I'm not sure you can convince me anyone can win a lawsuit over it. Verizon has no monopoly under any stretch of an imagination (unlike aforementioned Microsoft).

    If you want to hurt the company or get them to bend to your will, just don't patronize them anymore.
    04-17-09 11:05 AM
  20. shchasm's Avatar
    I'm going to sue this thread for having 30 pages of rubbish

    Just feeding the troll

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    You might have a case!
    Last edited by shchasm; 04-17-09 at 11:12 AM. Reason: grammer
    04-17-09 11:11 AM
  21. RicanMedic78's Avatar
    By your reasoning I can sue Verizon for making me use them as a carrier when I purchases one of their phones.
    The GPS was not designed for VZ Nav exclusively! And while phones are specifically designed for CDMA devices, the lock to the carrier is justified in the discount you received for that phone! That is it! That is why more and more carriers are making it easier to get unlock codes after their contracts are up, even before! You have no leg to stand on in your analogy!
    Last edited by RicanMedic78; 04-17-09 at 11:19 AM.
    04-17-09 11:14 AM
  22. shchasm's Avatar
    The GPS was not designed for VZ Nav exclusively! And while phones are specifically designed for CDMA devices, the lock to the carrier is justified in the discount you received for that phone! That is it! That is why more and more carriers are making it easier to get unlock codes after their contracts are up, even before! You have no leg to stand on in your analogy!
    Well you go ahead and sue and we'll see what happens.
    04-17-09 11:23 AM
  23. lastraid's Avatar
    Sheesh same argument, different people, well one any way, Different words - YAWN! Once again I think this forum has gone way past it usefulness
    04-17-09 11:25 AM
  24. RicanMedic78's Avatar
    YUP I'm actually starting to sense the back and forth (a little late? ).

    The only difference is the lack of a rebutal to any of my arguments! At least twins made an ...... ATTEMPT!

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    04-17-09 11:29 AM
  25. shchasm's Avatar
    YUP I'm actually starting to sense the back and forth (a little late? ).

    The only difference is the lack of a rebutal to any of my arguments! At least twins made an ...... ATTEMPT!

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    If you say so Rican.

    -Im sure you understand what a monoply is.
    04-17-09 11:33 AM
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