04-18-09 02:25 PM
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  1. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    It is the steady erosion of rights & privacy - all under the auspices of "this won't hurt me" that has gotten us to the point we are today. We have been steadily ceding personal liberties & freedoms for too long and it has nothing to do with conspiracy theories.

    You may not be doing anything wrong in your house - do you want cameras watching you?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    04-13-09 12:33 AM
  2. GeekNJ's Avatar
    Ah, the old scare tactic. I guess it is ok though if we add a bluetooth GPS and do everything we could have done with the crippled one in the unit we purchased?

    If it so worried you, leave the GPS on the 911 Only setting and let those of us that are wild and crazy use the device as we see fit.

    For someone that seems **** bent against others controlling them and knowing their personal info, you seem pretty adamant that it's fine (in fact noble) for Verizon to control what we can/can't do.
    04-13-09 05:51 AM
  3. anon(368121)'s Avatar
    It is the steady erosion of rights & privacy - all under the auspices of "this won't hurt me" that has gotten us to the point we are today. We have been steadily ceding personal liberties & freedoms for too long and it has nothing to do with conspiracy theories.

    You may not be doing anything wrong in your house - do you want cameras watching you?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    While I usually agree with you (certainly on Verizon's legal right to control aGPS access), this is one aspect of the issue of control where things aren't so cut and dried.

    If Verizon is using the maintenance of privacy, personal liberty and freedom as their core argument for eliminating subscriber access to GPS, it simply means that they are restricting our freedom to do as we see fit with our personal data rather than allowing us to make the decision for ourselves.

    If it's really a bandwidth issue, they should come clean on that. Verizon's flag-waving in the name of my rights as an individual while at the same time denying my ability to control what information is shared with my friends (and yes, the government) seems hypocritical.
    04-13-09 07:00 AM
  4. vtbert3's Avatar
    Get a Storm, the GPS is unlocked.
    04-13-09 09:27 AM
  5. anon(368121)'s Avatar
    Get a Storm, the GPS is unlocked.
    Only Autonomous GPS is unrestricted on the Storm, which allows it to work with Google Maps and a limited selection of other applications.

    Many applications for mobile devices expect aGPS (Assisted GPS) to be available and will not work without it. Verizon does not provide access to its PDEs; without them, there's nothing to "assist" GPS.
    04-13-09 09:34 AM
  6. vtbert3's Avatar
    Only Autonomous GPS is unrestricted on the Storm, which allows it to work with Google Maps and a limited selection of other applications.

    Many applications for mobile devices expect aGPS (Assisted GPS) to be available and will not work without it. Verizon does not provide access to its PDEs; without them, there's nothing to "assist" GPS.
    Before autonomous GPS was unlocked, you could use Google maps to get a fix within a 1500 M radius. While quicker to get its initial fix, the aGPS was a cell tower triangulation fix and it was not as accurate as autonomous GPS. The unlocked autonomous GPS is spot on and I can use Google maps, Where, etc. Once I get autonomous GPS fix I'm good.
    04-13-09 09:46 AM
  7. anon(368121)'s Avatar
    Before autonomous GPS was unlocked, you could use Google maps to get a fix within a 1500 M radius. While quicker to get its initial fix, the aGPS was a cell tower triangulation fix and it was not as accurate as autonomous GPS. The unlocked autonomous GPS is spot on and I can use Google maps, Where, etc. Once I get autonomous GPS fix I'm good.
    Cell tower location/triangulation is not the same as aGPS.
    04-13-09 11:12 AM
  8. vtbert3's Avatar
    Cell tower location/triangulation is not the same as aGPS.
    Well true a-GPS is a Verizon service, and they have the reasonable right to charge you for its use since it uses network resources. On the other hand, GPS is not a Verizon service and RIM has a GPS chip built in to some of their phones and you already paid for the right to use the GPS reciever when you purchased the phone and Verizon shouldn't be able to lock that out as they previously did on phones.
    04-13-09 12:16 PM
  9. anon(368121)'s Avatar
    Well true a-GPS is a Verizon service, and they have the reasonable right to charge you for its use. On the other hand, GPS is not a Verizon service and RIM has a GPS chip built in and you already paid for the right to use the GPS reciever when you purchased the phone and Verizon shouldn't be able to lock that out as the previously did on phones.
    Have you actually read the thread you're posting in?
    04-13-09 12:17 PM
  10. shwemp's Avatar
    Well true a-GPS is a Verizon service, and they have the reasonable right to charge you for its use since it uses network resources. On the other hand, GPS is not a Verizon service and RIM has a GPS chip built in to some of their phones and you already paid for the right to use the GPS reciever when you purchased the phone and Verizon shouldn't be able to lock that out as they previously did on phones.
    You, my friend, are exactly right in my opinion. There is a lot of mis-information in this thread being posted by people that make themselves sound like experts and have a lot of people believing they are.

    This thread will be moot once OS 5.0 is released for the 8130, 8830, and 8330 later in the year and everyone will see this has nothing to do with hardware.
    04-13-09 12:37 PM
  11. vtbert3's Avatar
    Have you actually read the thread you're posting in?
    Yeah, you guys are whining about Verizon charging for aGPS and locking GPS. I agree that locking the GPS is a stupid move on Verizon's part, however, they don't block GPS on all Blackberries. For instance, my GPS on my Storm works for FREEEEEE.... aGPS is a verizon service so they have every right to charge you for it an not feel one bit of remorse. So your demand for a reason why they block it (bandwidth/privacy) is irrelevant because they can put whatever terms they want with their services for whatever reason they choose. You have the option to decline to use their services. BTW the Storm is much better, esp with OS .122, maybe you should look into that as an alternative instead of bashing it like you do.
    04-13-09 12:43 PM
  12. anon(368121)'s Avatar
    Yeah, you guys are whining about Verizon charging for aGPS and locking GPS. I agree that locking the GPS is a stupid move on Verizon's part, however, they don't block GPS on all Blackberries. For instance, my GPS on my Storm works for FREEEEEE.... aGPS is a verizon service so they have every right to charge you for it an not feel one bit of remorse. So your demand for a reason why they block it (bandwidth/privacy) is irrelevant because they can put whatever terms they want with their services for whatever reason they choose. You have the option to decline to use their services. BTW the Storm is much better, esp with OS .122, maybe you should look into that as an alternative instead of bashing it like you do.
    If you really had read it, you'd know that I'm not one of the GPS whiners. Verizon has perfectly legal and valid reasons for prohibiting aGPS, but they're not being completely above-board in communicating them to their customers.

    And I've used a great many leaked firmware versions on my Storm. While the stability and speed may have been improved, none of them fixed the specific usability issues I've documented in other threads. The UI is clunky, poorly designed, and error prone. The Storm is not a "business-class" device.

    Yet.
    04-13-09 01:09 PM
  13. vtbert3's Avatar
    If you really had read it, you'd know that I'm not one of the GPS whiners. Verizon has perfectly legal and valid reasons for prohibiting aGPS, but they're not being completely above-board in communicating them to their customers.

    And I've used a great many leaked firmware versions on my Storm. While the stability and speed may have been improved, none of them fixed the specific usability issues I've documented in other threads. The UI is clunky, poorly designed, and error prone. The Storm is not a "business-class" device.

    Yet.
    My Storm in now a "business-class" device ever since .113, and its GPS is unlocked. I have no real issues with usability now and use it in a business environment everyday.
    04-13-09 01:17 PM
  14. Brandoja's Avatar
    Why dont you just download Google Maps and use that as a GPS? It may not talk you through directions but you can read the directions and it gets you from 'point A' to 'point B'
    04-13-09 01:18 PM
  15. IDsweetcheeks's Avatar
    Does anyone have any advice on how to begin a class action lawsuit. I am disgusted that Verizon has and continues to block GPS signals on its devices. I have the Curve and when I purchased it, I was under the impression my device had GPS capabilities. We all know the deal-just pay 9.99 a month and verizon will activate. We should as a whole BB connunity try to file a lawsuit against verizon to have this practice changed. Any legal advice and help would be great.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    ***** ***** *****...

    vznav is a verizon product... they have a right to charge for it if they want...
    stop complaining and being sue happy...
    04-13-09 01:26 PM
  16. IDsweetcheeks's Avatar
    And the gripe is there's NO additional service beyond the phone (data in this case) plan for using the built-in GPS on the device we bought.

    But there's no service associated with the GPS device. VZ Nav is Verizon's "service", not the GPS built into the unit we paid for.

    Is it millions? Do you know? Where did you get the stat?

    Who says anyone is arguing now? This gripe has been going on since they first had a GPS in device that allowed non-Verizon software to be installed. yet the built-in HW was specifically crippled by Verizon, thought we purchased the device which has this feature.

    We're asking that the HW feature native in the device not be crippled for use with other vendor software.

    the official count since we bought out alltell is 10million customers and COUNTING
    04-13-09 01:37 PM
  17. IDsweetcheeks's Avatar
    I'm not sure why you ladies are complaining. If you looked on Verizon Wireless' website, and checked out any Blackberry phone, none of them say GPS or GPS enabled, or anything like that. They only say VZ Navigator... And as you clearly mentioned above, VZ Navigator is a "service" that Verizon Wireless provides. No where under the "details", "features", "accessories", or "capabilities" tab does it say anything about GPS. And if you had done any research on your own ( which it looks like you have ), you would have realized before purchasing the device, that you'd have to pay extra for Verizon Wireless' VZ Navigator service.

    Another thing, you guys say GPS wouldn't cost Verizon anything to enable, wrong. It would cost Verizon because who would pay $9.99 for VZ Navigator, if they can just use Blackberry Maps for free? I don't think millions and millions use VZ Navigator, but I'm sure Verizon makes a pretty penny from that service.

    THANK YOU
    04-13-09 01:44 PM
  18. anon(368121)'s Avatar
    My Storm in now a "business-class" device ever since .113, and its GPS is unlocked. I have no real issues with usability now and use it in a business environment everyday.
    Good for you. Seriously.

    But I have to ask: What kind of Blackberry did you own before acquiring the Storm? Because if you answer "none," then you just don't know what you're missing . . .

    PS. And yes, we all know that Autonomous GPS is unlocked on the Storm. Assisted GPS (aGPS) is not, and it's important for people to hear that . . . not much GPS software for mobile devices takes advantage of Autonomous mode.
    04-13-09 01:46 PM
  19. vtbert3's Avatar
    Good for you. Seriously.

    But I have to ask: What kind of Blackberry did you own before acquiring the Storm? Because if you answer "none," then you just don't know what you're missing . . .

    PS. And yes, we all know that Autonomous GPS is unlocked on the Storm. Assisted GPS (aGPS) is not, and it's important for people to hear that . . . not much GPS software for mobile devices takes advantage of Autonomous mode.
    I had the Pearl (don't laugh). It was good but the Storm is way better NOW. Plus I tried a Curve too. What exactly do you want with aGPS that Google maps or Where or other location based software can't give you besides the instant initial location fix? Verizon unlocking the GPS is a HUGE step since they are giving up forcing customers to use VZ Nav.
    Last edited by vtbert3; 04-13-09 at 02:14 PM.
    04-13-09 02:03 PM
  20. anon(368121)'s Avatar
    I had the Pearl (don't laugh). It was good but the Storm is way better NOW. Plus I tried a Curve too. What exactly do you want with aGPS that Google maps or Where or other location based software can't give you besides the instant initial location fix? Verizon unlocking the GPS is a HUGE step since they are giving up forcing customers to use VZ Nav.
    If it came down to a choice between a Pearl and a Storm, I'd go for the Storm too. The Pearl was also a compromise, but it (and RIM) knew its limitations. The Storm, on the other hand, has tremendous potential. The OS is what cripples it; it needs a serious redesign to work with a touchscreen device. The hardware is incredible, but it's not used anywhere close to what its capable of.

    Back to the subject of this thread: aGPS will allow the device a rapid TTFF in many adverse situations . . . indoors, inclement weather, etc. The key to understanding the advantage of aGPS vs. Autonomous GPS is that mobile software is generally written to leverage aGPS to the exclusion of any other mode the device may offer. Autonomous GPS was not a common feature on smartphones until recently, and the LBS API was commonly invoked with aGPS specified as the method for obtaining a fix. Not only is it generally faster, but it's much more widely available than Autonomous mode across all devices.

    Much of the current software would have to be re-written to "fall back" to Autonomous mode if aGPS isn't available. That's only happened with Google Maps 3.0.2 for the Storm within the last couple of months.
    04-13-09 03:33 PM
  21. Darthkuriboh's Avatar
    Fact of the matter is we reserve the right to allow or disallow any potentially harmful software when it comes to OUR network. If a software does not meet our security standards, it won't be allowed. You know that when you sign the contract. Or you would if you actually READ the terms of service.
    04-13-09 05:14 PM
  22. anon(368121)'s Avatar
    Fact of the matter is we reserve the right to allow or disallow any potentially harmful software when it comes to OUR network. If a software does not meet our security standards, it won't be allowed. You know that when you sign the contract. Or you would if you actually READ the terms of service.
    Which is all absolutely fine, my friend. I just wish that the folks on the VZW front lines were so up front about it. Telling us that they're doing it for our own good is BS, never mind hypocritical.
    04-13-09 05:48 PM
  23. Darthkuriboh's Avatar
    It IS for your good as well as ours. Network stability requires heavy security measures, and disallowing most gps capabilities except ours (we KNOW ours is safe) seemed the best way to go until some GPS makers actually put harsher security standards on their own programs.
    04-13-09 06:02 PM
  24. angelalynn79's Avatar
    Does anyone have any advice on how to begin a class action lawsuit. I am disgusted that Verizon has and continues to block GPS signals on its devices. I have the Curve and when I purchased it, I was under the impression my device had GPS capabilities. We all know the deal-just pay 9.99 a month and verizon will activate. We should as a whole BB connunity try to file a lawsuit against verizon to have this practice changed. Any legal advice and help would be great.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    1. They advertised that it has a GPS. They never advertised it was free or would not cost extra to access.

    2. I have no idea what VZW's policy is (and I'm too lazy to read all these replies gripping about it) but in my opinion $9.99/month is very fair.

    That's because in my limited tech knowledge, the charge isn't just to access the GPS but to keep it locked so that only you can access it and no one else can access you!!

    Bad enough I'm on BES and my bosses can see what I'm doing on the web etc, on a phone that *I* paid for (the only reimburse most of the monthly charges) - God help me if they start "track berry"-ing me and seeing where I'm at all the time because *THEY* have unlimited access to my GPS.

    And yes this happened to a friend of mine... And then not only do you have to worry about bosses - what about the crazies out there? YIKES.

    Grow up. It's $10.00 a month. Mine only costs $7 after my discount through my employer.
    04-13-09 07:23 PM
  25. FF22's Avatar
    It is not just that it's TEN DOLLARS PER MONTH - it is that it still only works with Verizon's Navigator program even if you pay the $10.

    If you want to log your route, track your distance running or biking or x-country skiing or you elevation gain or loss or you want to geocache you canNOT do that with Navigator. So you are limited not only to Navigator but the types of use which gps data can provide.

    Paying $10 does not open up the gps.

    And, at the moment, since they have not released an official 4.5 for the 8830, it canNOT even be used with BBMaps.

    I'm still not sure about the entire privacy debate. Some of the gps programs I'm using do not use data so I don't know who can spy on me? I can turn off data transmission and still use gps-logger and record my track, my distance, my average speed and my elevation gain on bike rides and hikes - no one is privy to that information. I can save the log and use it on my personal computer. No one sees it nor is it stored or transmitted anywhere. Besides, this privacy concept seems like a smoke-screen which Verizon throws out alternatively to the impact on their network.
    04-13-09 09:36 PM
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