04-18-09 02:25 PM
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  1. just txt and calls mam's Avatar
    My blackberry storm is black but has no berries and it isn't a weather machine

    Can I sue ?
    02-23-09 11:40 PM
  2. Sign543's Avatar
    I just don't understand all the crying about verizon this or that.. If you don't like their policy over anything (ie this GPS, or crippling of bluetooth) then use another carrier.
    This is an illogical argument. If Burger King was suddenly refusing service to Asian customers, you could make the same argument. "If you don't like their policy, then use another restaurant."

    Absolute silliness. Your argument suggests that a company can do virtually anything and our only obligation is to NOT choose the service of that company in response.

    I also went to law school and after reading so many posts on this, I have to agree that it appears that VZW has set themselves up for legitimate legal scrutiny.

    I can fully understand them charging for their own VZNav service. But, their service is not required for the GPS to work (GPS that's built in and advertised.)

    They are blocking a feature that wouldn't cost them a DIME if they unlocked it.

    Look at it like this: Your vehicle comes with a built-in CD player and radio. Would you be okay if the company who built your car LOCKED the functionality of the radio unless you paid a monthly fee to have access to the airwaves through the radio? Of course you wouldn't be okay with it.

    It's not the user's choices that are in question here. It's the unconscionable gouging practices of the company in question.
    02-24-09 09:58 AM
  3. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    This is an illogical argument. If Burger King was suddenly refusing service to Asian customers, you could make the same argument. "If you don't like their policy, then use another restaurant."
    No sir, your premise & analogies are flawed. If Burger King refused to sell lobster or raw lamb & you were hungry for that, you need to go to a seafood or Middle-Eastern restaurant. No one is talking racism here. VZW is not refusing to provide service to anyone willing & able to pay. The company does not discriminate against races.

    Absolute silliness. Your argument suggests that a company can do virtually anything and our only obligation is to NOT choose the service of that company in response.
    No one is saying they can do anything they want. We are saying it is their business & they can choose to offer or not offer whatever products & services they see fit, just like BK can choose to sell Whoppers but not Alaskan crab legs.

    I also went to law school and after reading so many posts on this, I have to agree that it appears that VZW has set themselves up for legitimate legal scrutiny.
    If you went to law school, you'd be able to tell the difference between a company refusing to offer a product or service and a company discriminating against Asians or Blacks or Martians.

    Of course, many lawyers do see little green men anywhere there might be a hefty fee.

    I can fully understand them charging for their own VZNav service. But, their service is not required for the GPS to work (GPS that's built in and advertised.)
    Show us where VZW advertises unlimited GPS capability. The law only requires GPS location for E911 compatibility. VZW makes the same claims for all its phones, including those which are not VZNav compatible, since all are E911 capable. If they didn't disclose this, conspiracy types would be up in arms over privacy issues.

    They are blocking a feature that wouldn't cost them a DIME if they unlocked it.
    Again, your premise is flawed. Offering open GPS capability on a single-mode aGPS device is very costly in terms of network bandwidth and database access. If your device GPS can fall back into autonomous operation, then there would be less or no cost, but a considerable application footprint increase would hit your device as well. The type of GPS functionality is determined by the manufacturer and not the carrier.

    Look at it like this: Your vehicle comes with a built-in CD player and radio. Would you be okay if the company who built your car LOCKED the functionality of the radio unless you paid a monthly fee to have access to the airwaves through the radio? Of course you wouldn't be okay with it.
    No, but there are dealers who avoid ordering factory sound systems just so they can soak you with an aftermarket system.

    It's not the user's choices that are in question here. It's the unconscionable gouging practices of the company in question.
    Yup, just like it is completely unconscionable that Burger King won't offer me sushi for lunch. I think I can find something of a litigious nature in them discriminating against me.

    Overall, your argument is blaltantly absurd. I really hope you found a line of work outside of the legal profession.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    02-24-09 11:56 AM
  4. vatothe0's Avatar
    I had someone tell me they worked in a law office and knew how contracts worked. Turned out they were the janitor.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    02-24-09 12:05 PM
  5. jrd231psu's Avatar
    VZW advertised the phone is capable of GPS and it is. There isn't anything wrong with that. It's not like they said the phone has GPS and it doesn't, because it certainly can receive a GPS signal and navigate you. People need to stop crying when a company doesn't tailor their services around them. If you don't like paying for GPS then find a new provider instead of trying to sue the company to force them to give you what you want for free. Again, the Curve has GPS. Verizon never said it was free GPS, though.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    02-24-09 12:13 PM
  6. sethjk's Avatar
    I imagine a Corporate Law attorney would be best.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    You probalby don't want a corporate attorney- you want a litigator. Corporate attorneys handle mergers and acquisitions and more transactional matters.
    02-24-09 01:54 PM
  7. ScottRPriester's Avatar
    data for "assistance" to GPS may vary from app to app but no one can tell me that so much data can be used that it threatened to cripple their network! Tethering is one thing.... but assist data for the sole purpose of making a GPS function??? COME ON!

    BB maps now uses the GPS. Wonder if verizon is bleeding from that move and losing tons of data!

    Its trivial and its rediculous!
    I've seen you complain enough in my short time here that I have one simple question......

    Why don't you just go to another carrier if you are so angry and unhappy with VZW?
    02-24-09 02:06 PM
  8. zarzamora_hermosa's Avatar
    Hmmm, maybe something with Contract Law or misrepresentation. You should consult a legal source such as Westlaw or Statutes and Reporters and find out exactly what kind of legal claim you would make. Then you would have to find out the necessary elements to prove in order to receive damages.

    Also, you would want to know where Verizon Wireless' corporate offices are located, because that may be the state in which a lawsuit has to be brought. Therefore, it would be smart to know the laws for that state concerning whatever legal claim you choose to bring.
    02-24-09 02:10 PM
  9. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    Verizon never said it was free GPS, though.
    They most certainly did! I read about it on one of those cell phone sites where this guy who hated VZW heard from his neighbor's best friend's cousin's boyfriend who is a janitor in an ambulance chaser's office that they once saw a VZW ad claiming that GPS is a right guaranteed by the Constitution of The New World Order and that VZW would pay everyone to accept free GPS service.

    I believe this with all my heart to be true!

    I've seen you complain enough in my short time here that I have one simple question......

    Why don't you just go to another carrier if you are so angry and unhappy with VZW?
    I've voiced the same question many times, only to get varying excuses.

    It is the new entitlement mentality.

    Posted from my proudly VZW CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Last edited by TwinsX2Dad; 02-24-09 at 02:42 PM.
    02-24-09 02:38 PM
  10. scywin's Avatar
    If you get this going please let me know so I can nominate the suit for a Stella award. :-)

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    02-24-09 02:53 PM
  11. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    If you get this going please let me know so I can nominate the suit for a Stella award. :-)
    For those in the unenlightened camp...

    The TRUE Stella Awards -- Exposing Lawsuit Abuse with Real Cases

    Stella Awards are similar to the genetically challenged outed by the so-called Darwin Awards, except these focus on absurd lawsuit abuses filed by the chronically stupid (coffee IS hot folks) instead of just the antics of the chronically stupid.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Last edited by TwinsX2Dad; 02-24-09 at 03:06 PM.
    02-24-09 03:00 PM
  12. gotblackberry's Avatar
    If a PRIVATELY owned business does not want to serve Asian people, or white people, or black people. They should be allowed to do that. Why should the government tell the business you HAVE to serve to those people, or you CAN'T fire someone for whatever reason they want.

    It would be up to the people to choose whether or not they frequented that business. If enough people stopped going, they would change their policy or go out of business. This is a free market.
    02-24-09 04:02 PM
  13. scywin's Avatar
    Uh, Verizon is about as Public a company as a company can get.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    02-24-09 04:07 PM
  14. gotblackberry's Avatar
    Wrong. Verizon Wireless is a privately owned business. Public means owned by government. Not only that, Verizon Wireless is not even publically traded. Of course, Verizon would never discriminate based on race it would be a horrible business decision and I would refuse to work for a racist company. However, if a company chooses to do that -- so be it. The government has no right to tell them what they can and can't do with their business. Just like they shouldn't be able to tell the company why they can or can't hire/fire someone.
    02-24-09 04:10 PM
  15. ok4a56's Avatar
    I just wanted to subscribe to the thread as it is getting good.


    Someone pass the popcorn

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    02-24-09 04:35 PM
  16. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    If a PRIVATELY owned business does not want to serve Asian people, or white people, or black people. They should be allowed to do that. Why should the government tell the business you HAVE to serve to those people, or you CAN'T fire someone for whatever reason they want.

    It would be up to the people to choose whether or not they frequented that business. If enough people stopped going, they would change their policy or go out of business. This is a free market.
    While I have always prided myself on being colorblind (cultural arrogance, on the other hand...) I am vehemently anti-PC (don't mess with Freedom of Speech) and do agree with your statement, as long as that business is not reaching out to hurt anyone. Private business (this would include VZW or P&G or Ford Motor Company) should not be forced to do business with anyone per the old "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone" concept.

    I wouldn't practice it - I think I even have some purple & orange people working for me - but the government already tramples on my freedoms as a business and an individual.

    In the words of Hank Hill, "what kind of country do we live in if I can only hate a man if he is white?"

    Bringing it somewhat back on topic here, "what kind of country do we live in if I can only hate a carrier if it is VZW?"

    Silly stuff indeed.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    02-24-09 05:14 PM
  17. RicanMedic78's Avatar
    I've seen you complain enough in my short time here that I have one simple question......

    Why don't you just go to another carrier if you are so angry and unhappy with VZW?

    how bout u challenge the point and not wonder about my personal decisions. Why I'm with verizon is contractual and has absolutey NOTHING to do with the point at hand!
    02-24-09 10:54 PM
  18. RicanMedic78's Avatar
    Of course, Verizon would never discriminate based on race it would be a horrible business decision and I would refuse to work for a racist company. However, if a company chooses to do that -- so be it. The government has no right to tell them what they can and can't do with their business. Just like they shouldn't be able to tell the company why they can or can't hire/fire someone.
    hate to disappoint u but maybe we should take a crash course on US Law here.... what do u think?
    Last edited by RicanMedic78; 02-25-09 at 12:30 AM.
    02-24-09 10:56 PM
  19. Sign543's Avatar
    No sir, your premise & analogies are flawed. If Burger King refused to sell lobster or raw lamb & you were hungry for that, you need to go to a seafood or Middle-Eastern restaurant. No one is talking racism here. VZW is not refusing to provide service to anyone willing & able to pay. The company does not discriminate against races.
    The issue isn't about race. You missed the point.


    If you went to law school, you'd be able to tell the difference between a company refusing to offer a product or service and a company discriminating against Asians or Blacks or Martians.
    The issue isn't about race. You missed the point.


    Show us where VZW advertises unlimited GPS capability.
    If that is what I claimed...you'd have a point. I did not say this, however. YOU said this.

    Again, your premise is flawed.
    If only you'd demonstrated this.

    Yup, just like it is completely unconscionable that Burger King won't offer me sushi for lunch.
    Burger King never advertised that sushi was a "built in" option to their lunch special. Analogy FAIL.

    Overall, your argument is blaltantly absurd.
    If only you'd demonstrated this.

    I really hope you found a line of work outside of the legal profession.
    Is this an adult forum? Can we please live without the pejorative juvenile insults? If you want to attack my argument, have free reign. When you abandon that tactic and go for the petty silliness, I have little time or patience. Seriously.

    Thanks for your input.

    My first post on this matter still stands.
    02-25-09 12:09 AM
  20. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    My first post on this matter still stands.
    If your rebuttal showed any logic, reason or intelligence, it might stand. But it doesn't, therefore, you're only spouting hot air. You made no sound calls, nor any valid points in your response.

    Go back and read your post - I invite anyone else to critique it, as well as my retort.

    You use the adolescent FAIL, just like the prepubescent boys in online gaming and you call me juvenile? That's a crack up.
    02-25-09 12:53 AM
  21. moke's Avatar
    if you can use vz navigator on your handset, then any idea that gps advertising was false or misleading are your error, not the company's.

    bottom line is that just because it is there, but not as you want it, does not mean it is not there ... it just means you externalized your expectations and now want to blame anyone but yourself.
    02-25-09 01:16 AM
  22. gotblackberry's Avatar
    hate to disappoint u but maybe we should take a crash course on US Law here.... what do u think?
    What about US Law? I never said the government didn't already do it. I said they SHOULDNT BE ABLE TO DO IT.
    02-25-09 01:58 AM
  23. RicanMedic78's Avatar
    the problem was never in the advertizing. It does say GPS via VZ Nav so that is not the issue.

    I remember when government got involved with suing microsoft because of monopoly practices with its OS. I remember specifically this was about 3rd party applicaion restrictions with microsoft claiming that it was their software and they are allowed to restrict it for optimal performance or something to the sort. In this case it was making IE the sole browser in windows, eliminating the competition (firefox, safari, chrome, etc) by default! Sounds like the same game here if u ask me!
    02-25-09 02:03 AM
  24. RicanMedic78's Avatar
    The government has no right to tell them what they can and can't do with their business.
    When u are a big business, u have a responsibility to the public, the economy, etc to be a fair player! Be it fair wages for employees and fair practices for consumers. If things were 100% free and companies can do what they want, then the country would eventually colapse and greed will take over. The 1st stimulus bill is an example of that. There needs to be a balance to it all... what that balance is is called politics. In any sense, we've seen what deregulation does and I think its the general consensus that this is not the way to go as we've seen in the past 8 years of disasterous republican control

    how do I know? Look whos in office today.... I rest my case!
    02-25-09 02:15 AM
  25. ScottRPriester's Avatar
    how bout u challenge the point
    "how bout u"...........intelligent way to post

    There's nothing to challenge. If there wasn't something for you to cry about, life wouldn't be worth living.

    Here's a real world insight, it's not rare for companies to charge for services they offer. VZW is no different. Why would any company in their right mind offer devices to facilitate specific products, and then give a customer the option to access something similar for free? No money gets made that way, Einstein.........."u understand that"?
    02-25-09 05:24 AM
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