04-18-09 02:25 PM
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  1. vatothe0's Avatar
    So where did Google Maps get it's map data from if there was no service?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    12-16-08 08:01 PM
  2. vndlewis's Avatar
    So where did Google Maps get it's map data from if there was no service?

    GM uses cell tower triangulation.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    12-16-08 08:23 PM
  3. vatothe0's Avatar
    Oh I know. I was referring to the post before mine saying GM worked with no cellular connection at all.

    If there was no cellular connection, how did GM display anything? Download it from the GPS satellite? Lol

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    12-16-08 08:38 PM
  4. 916Ninja#CB's Avatar
    Google maps does have a satellite/gps capability. However, it is in beta, and most likely isn't ready for a full release. Once everything has been hashed out then it might work well. On my friends sprint curve it narrows it down to 800m mine is anywhere from 800m to 1600m. My recommendation is stick with Google maps if it works, for those that can't get it to lock in then so be it. I would also like to mention that my location is sometimes/usually not even in the stated radius of the pinpointed location... it may work for some, definitely not all. I also have nav4all and it seems to gps me just fine. of course i havent played with it enough yet to know for sure.
    12-16-08 11:40 PM
  5. krisericson's Avatar
    Google maps does have a satellite/gps capability. However, it is in beta, and most likely isn't ready for a full release. Once everything has been hashed out then it might work well. On my friends sprint curve it narrows it down to 800m mine is anywhere from 800m to 1600m. My recommendation is stick with Google maps if it works, for those that can't get it to lock in then so be it. I would also like to mention that my location is sometimes/usually not even in the stated radius of the pinpointed location... it may work for some, definitely not all. I also have nav4all and it seems to gps me just fine. of course i havent played with it enough yet to know for sure.
    Google maps DOES have GPS capability, i think. However even if it did (as I believe it does), it would be irrelevant if it could not access the device GPS in the first place. The reason for the wide variance in your "GPS" pinpoints is it is using tower triangulation technology, which depends on your distance from the closest cell towers. Nothing to do with GPS.

    NOTE: after actually reading prev. 5 or so posts...:

    - Google maps willl "work" no matter what. It's a question of accuracy. It may take your last known location, and because of the margin of error, may end up being within X meters of your location, which may coincidentally be within what is your normal wide range of estimation with triangulation. Not neccesscarily a proof of anything (TwinsX2Dad) except possibly an anomoly.

    - vatothe0: a good question indeed, perhaps position indicated was last position where reception was possible, such as ten feet to the left?

    Just because you stand in one spot and have no service doesn't mean anthing about the signal strength in the area. Your body, and hand itself can create temporary and intermitent barriers to the signal, by a factor up to 50%. Google maps could be using the last know location.

    The facts are the facts. Google Maps on Verizon relies on cell tower triangulation. Stop looking for ghosts.
    Last edited by krisericson; 12-17-08 at 12:06 AM.
    12-16-08 11:57 PM
  6. 916Ninja#CB's Avatar
    My bad. I should have made it more clear. As I do know the GPS is not functioning correctly and that it uses triangulation. I was merely pointing out that even that can be grossly in accurate. Heck, mine sometimes bounces from two or three different towers. lol Sorry for the misunderstanding.
    12-17-08 02:28 AM
  7. krisericson's Avatar
    Yes thats the gripe with Verizon not providing GPS data to all applications. Cell data is fine for fixing location within 3 cell towers, but not great for map/driving applications....

    Anyway, anyone remember Independence Day, when Jeff Goldblum pinpointed his ex-wife's position with cell triangulation?

    Hollywood...

    NOTE: I replied too quick... Ninja, i was agreeing with you lol
    12-17-08 02:34 AM
  8. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    And, in another of the multiple threads which cover the same subject, I mention that there seems to be an anomaly based on our contract and our business.

    So don't necessarily get too excited.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    12-17-08 11:43 AM
  9. vndlewis's Avatar
    And, in another of the multiple threads which cover the same subject, I mention that there seems to be an anomaly based on our contract and our business.

    So don't necessarily get too excited.
    It is still cell triangulation. BB maps will pin point where you are. Tell me this, when using GM, how many satellites are you connected to? We need a screen shot for proof.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    12-17-08 12:21 PM
  10. 916Ninja#CB's Avatar
    Well if hes using a puck it might work. It does search for satellites, it just can't be used with the internals. Maybe I misunderstood your post vndlewis.....
    12-17-08 09:25 PM
  11. 916Ninja#CB's Avatar
    Ok here's the deal with GMaps... After reading the google maps for mobile help boards, Verizon has not authorized GMaps to use the GPS internals yet. It's something that Google and VZW have to hash out. Until then, no GPS without a puck. Apparently there is an authorized list of programs that are allowed to use the GPS. GMaps is not one of them. I wonder if you hit roaming if it would work on a different carriers network... although i dont have any real clue how roaming would figure into things and what not. In fact I wonder if in order to use the gps it bounces through verizon for authorization and it send a response to the gps saying activate or what the deal. Did that make sense to anyone else?
    12-17-08 09:38 PM
  12. timberdc's Avatar
    Ok here's the deal with GMaps... After reading the google maps for mobile help boards, Verizon has not authorized GMaps to use the GPS internals yet. It's something that Google and VZW have to hash out. Until then, no GPS without a puck. Apparently there is an authorized list of programs that are allowed to use the GPS. GMaps is not one of them. I wonder if you hit roaming if it would work on a different carriers network... although i dont have any real clue how roaming would figure into things and what not. In fact I wonder if in order to use the gps it bounces through verizon for authorization and it send a response to the gps saying activate or what the deal. Did that make sense to anyone else?
    I doubt that it would work on another carrier network. I imagine the GPS is locked at the OS level.
    12-17-08 10:54 PM
  13. vndlewis's Avatar
    Well if hes using a puck it might work. It does search for satellites, it just can't be used with the internals. Maybe I misunderstood your post vndlewis.....
    I think he has/had a puck, but keeps insinuating GM works without it now.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    12-17-08 11:28 PM
  14. anon(368121)'s Avatar
    Explain this then- I change these BBs back to "911 Only" & all the mapping location features stop.

    VZNav uses a combo of GPS & triangulation. The Google Maps app did not work for me before about 8 wks ago without my puck.. On a recent trip to the Grand Canyon - no cell coverage at all there - when I forgot to charge my puck, Google Maps worked well.

    So if it is tower triangulation, VZW miraculously threw in towers that didn't carry phone traffic.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    I'm skeptical of Google Maps working without cell coverage, regardless of whether GPS is enabled or not. The map data is not stored locally other than a small cache; it's dynamically loaded as needed over the BB's data connection. No cell coverage, no data connection. So your Grand Canyon claim is very suspect.

    I do not have an explanation for your 911 Only vs. Location On experience, other than that you might be pulling our collective leg. On my Blackberry, cell tower triangulation works regardless of that setting, but when Location On is enabled, pressing the '0' key will display the "Your location within xxxx meters. Waiting for GPS" banner at the bottom. When I have GPS set for 911 Only, the banner does not include "Waiting for GPS," but the accuracy value is the same.

    The key that makes me think that Google Maps is not accessing the internal GPS in your Blackberry is that you get an accuracy value inconsistent with true GPS. When I have my GlobalSat BT338 GPS puck paired with my Blackberry and selected as the GPS source, Google Maps' accuracy is usually within 3 meters . . . evidenced by the banner that GMaps displays when pressing the '0' key. I also have no blue "area of uncertainty" circle surrounding the blinking dot showing my current position.
    12-18-08 12:51 PM
  15. Saiyaman156's Avatar
    Ok here's the deal with GMaps... After reading the google maps for mobile help boards, Verizon has not authorized GMaps to use the GPS internals yet. It's something that Google and VZW have to hash out. Until then, no GPS without a puck. Apparently there is an authorized list of programs that are allowed to use the GPS. GMaps is not one of them. I wonder if you hit roaming if it would work on a different carriers network... although i dont have any real clue how roaming would figure into things and what not. In fact I wonder if in order to use the gps it bounces through verizon for authorization and it send a response to the gps saying activate or what the deal. Did that make sense to anyone else?
    In your searches, did you find the actual list?
    12-18-08 01:22 PM
  16. tx_dbs_tx's Avatar
    I'm with you on that Dodge. You can't have maps without a data signal that's a fact no matter who wants to argue who wants to dispute it.
    12-18-08 01:56 PM
  17. tx_dbs_tx's Avatar
    GPS on Verizon's blackberrys are hard coded. You will not get gps to work on any app other than Verizon's preferred app list because it is also tied into the service books needed to enable the GPS for those apps specifically VZ Navigator. It's not possible to get around it without a way to hard code your device and get a service book from Verizon to enable it as well. This is why I left Verizon after many years. I now have a completely unlocked GPS on my BB Curve to use with any third party app I want for free. Sprint is the way to go and there a **** of a lot cheaper than Verizon too with very affordable "simply everything" plans.
    12-18-08 02:07 PM
  18. ls1norcal's Avatar
    From a Google employee on the Google Blackberry help forum.

    I wanted to provide a little background for people with Verizon Wireless devices who aren't able to use their device's internal GPS with Google Maps for mobile. Access to GPS data on Verizon devices is restricted to certain applications. At this time, Google Maps for mobile isn't included in that list. However, two other methods of determining your location, Cell ID and Wifi access points, can be used to pinpoint your place on the map.

    I'll update this group if I have more news regarding Verizon GPS integrations with Google Maps for mobile in the future.

    Cheers,
    Tom


    Its a problem with Verizon not letting Google "unlock" their GPS capability on Verizon devices.

    If other applications that arnt on Verizons "approved list" work with GPS, it could be because its using BB maps to provision. If Verizon views the Storm as any type of iPhone competitor, they will allow GPS for Gmaps.

    The ONLY reason I have Verizon, is because I have a corporate discount. Without that, Verizon is the most over-priced, gouging Network out there. My discount pretty much makes my plan the price of any other carrier WITHOUT a discount.
    12-19-08 04:49 AM
  19. vndlewis's Avatar
    Sprint is the way to go and there a **** of a lot cheaper than Verizon too with very affordable "simply everything" plans.
    Sprint blocks MMS. Sprint was actually more expensive for us than Verizon. The only place I had reception in my house was in the bathroom - and that was not guaranteed. Dropped calls daily/constantly to the point they stopped giving us the dropped call credit. Monthly bill NEVER correct and horrendous customer service.

    For a reliable network wherever we travel and wonderful customer service I would choose Verizon every time - hands down.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    12-19-08 06:47 AM
  20. plasticberry's Avatar
    8830 was reviewed on 05/22/2007 by CNET.
    On Blackberry.com's website... on 8830.. it states "providing GPS*, BlackBerry Maps," at the bottom for the (*)... it states "*Please check with your service provider for supported features and services, and available colors."

    On verizonwireless.com... No where on 8830 product info, it states that it has GPS capabilities. Instead, it says "VZ Navigator(sm) Capable."

    Verizon's 8830's limit was widely known..
    "Pros: Dual band (CDMA & GSM) capability; messaging and e-mail
    Cons: Small keyboard; Disabled GPS; Verizon sales and support"


    Their press release does not mention "GPS", "Global Positioning", or any other words or phrases that would indicate that the product has these functionalities.

    "1Check with your service provider for supported features and services."

    4/25/2007,
    5/27/2007, and
    8/1/2007.

    8/1/2008 is the first time where VZ claimed that the device has "Built-in navigation to support VZ NavigatorSM for audible turn-by-turn directions in the U.S."

    No Product literature of theirs states that they have GPS capabilities.... With VZW 8830, you get VZ Navigator. Verizon never claimed that it had GPS functionalities. So, when you get one of their products, you get what they say they are going to offer.

    Just because you don't like something, it doesn't mean you can create a "Class Action" lawsuit. There is no negligence or loss. Verizon's devices are known be less functional when it comes to GPS. So, people who bought their devices had the information. Individual's inability to obtain pertinent informations doesn't warrant filing grievances. There are many reasons why they do or don't do what they do. And it's in their right to do whatever they want to do. VZW or blackberry never marketed Verizon's 8830 as a GPS capable phone.

    One's inability to obtain available information before engaging in commerce isn't a reason for filing grievances. Information was widely available.

    I guess you want government to bailout your purchase. So, you are asking government bail you out from your uninformative purchasing action/decision.

    I realize that malfunctioning GPS is frustrating. But frustration isn't lawsuit worthy.
    Last edited by plasticberry; 12-24-08 at 08:30 PM.
    12-24-08 08:25 PM
  21. isaacleese's Avatar
    Plus the fact that Verizon has unlocked GPS on the 8330's and 8130's and is proceeding to do the same for most of their smartphones.
    12-24-08 09:25 PM
  22. boisechic888's Avatar
    Does anyone have any advice on how to begin a class action lawsuit. I am disgusted that Verizon has and continues to block GPS signals on its devices. I have the Curve and when I purchased it, I was under the impression my device had GPS capabilities. We all know the deal-just pay 9.99 a month and verizon will activate. We should as a whole BB connunity try to file a lawsuit against verizon to have this practice changed. Any legal advice and help would be great.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    GIVE IT UP, just go download Google maps from your bb it is free and all you have to do is go into options and then adv. options and then down to GPS and change it from 911 only to location ON and you are good to go!

    Or you could get a storm and BB maps and the GPS will work just fine
    12-26-08 08:41 PM
  23. vndlewis's Avatar
    I wish people would quit saying google maps works. It does not for Verizon. GPS has only been unlocked to BBMaps.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    12-26-08 08:52 PM
  24. boisechic888's Avatar
    I wish people would quit saying google maps works. It does not for Verizon. GPS has only been unlocked to BBMaps.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Works just fine on my bb I have also helped many people set it up on their bb as well, so YES it does work!
    12-26-08 09:11 PM
  25. anon(368121)'s Avatar
    Works just fine on my bb I have also helped many people set it up on their bb as well, so YES it does work!
    If it's not giving you an accuracy figure of less than 100 meters, it's using cell tower coordinates. True GPS should give you accuracy of 10 meters or less (I've checked by pairing my old Curve with a GPS puck).

    And the Storm is no different, since that's what I'm using now.
    12-26-08 09:15 PM
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