10-01-09 09:42 PM
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  1. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    Check these out. On top of the news items, internal word has it that VZW is unhappy with RIM innovation (or lack thereof) and may be throwing more weight behind other manufacturers in the future.

    Check out the news items, then come back to discuss what VZW & RIM might do to right the ship.

    Weak Q3 Sales May Lead To Lower Blackberry Prices | AHN

    Silobreaker: RIM Drags Stocks Lower


    RIM, U.S. data drag Canadian stocks lower

    Personally, I think the constant BOGOs are devaluing the BlackBerry cache, making a lot of people wonder if BlackBerrys & VZW may be running firesales for a reason.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    09-28-09 04:26 PM
  2. Butthead007's Avatar
    I think you have a good point. While I like the direction RIM has gone with by adding stuff like a media player, etc, its about 5 years too late.

    Thinking about a touch pro 2. Thank god I get rolling upgrades every 3 months or so. I feel dirty just for mentioning possibly switching.
    09-28-09 06:48 PM
  3. sjsjr's Avatar
    In today's market the best thing RIM could do is make a phone that is "fun" for regular people. I love my Curve but the fun factor is almost zero. The Storm and Tour are a little better but still not something a lot of regular people want to play with. For a business type person these devices are great but for an average Joe/Jane they are boring. A news OS and better hardware would sway some more people to get one. The only problem is if they do this a lot of people who like them the way they are may stop buying them.

    Another point is if VZW would demand RIM hold to a higher production standard the phones that come out would be built better and people would not be wary of buying a new model. I am not saying they are poorly built but the newer phones fell less solid to me then even my 2 year old Curve. I am basing that on messing with a Storm my brother has, playing with a Tour in the Corp. store by my house, and the hundreds of threads here about loose battery doors, bad track balls, screen ripples, and dust under screens.
    09-28-09 07:10 PM
  4. mthoodrue's Avatar
    Companies basing decisions of certain lines to carry during as deep of recession as we are in puzzle me. Its bad folks. Most may not be experiencing it, but those whom are know its wrath. RIM is doing a great job, considering that they were business oriented until recently.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    09-28-09 07:23 PM
  5. sunNsnow's Avatar
    I was wondering about how quickly the Tour ended up in the BOGO sale (two weeks after I returned the phone, no less). I thought it was because VZW believed the phone is a liability with all its problems and wanted to get rid of their stock ASAP. RIM's brand started to slide in my opinion and I don't think my next phone will be a Blackberry.

    It's RIM's own fault for poor quality control on their phones. I would have kept the Tour if it worked right out of the box (like the Pearl). Unfortunately, I encountered many of the issues stated in this forum and I returned the phone.

    I also think that RIM is being awfully ambitious with the number of phones they are putting out: they want to appeal to too many types of consumers. It's better to be a master of one thing rather than be so-so at many things. That's RIM's real problem.
    09-28-09 07:29 PM
  6. DesertDogs's Avatar
    With what I saw today, you all are correct. The Storm 2 isn't worth anything and will probably be on the next bogo list. Too many good phones out there that are much better. Verizon would do well to put some distance between them and Rim and put those resources toward promoting well made phones that can do more than simple email and crappy internet.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    09-28-09 07:56 PM
  7. i7guy's Avatar
    How many people thought MSFT had lost it with Vista? Answer? A lot. ATT gives away refurb iphones. If that doesn't devalue a brand I don't know what does.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    09-28-09 09:41 PM
  8. DesertDogs's Avatar
    How many people thought MSFT had lost it with Vista? Answer? A lot.
    Mostly people who hated MS to start with. Vista sold well.

    ATT gives away refurb iphones. If that doesn't devalue a brand I don't know what does.
    Refurb and new are different things. Selling refurbs doesn't affect new.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    09-28-09 10:47 PM
  9. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    Mostly people who hated MS to start with. Vista sold well.
    Well, yes & no. While Vista sold well, MS took a lot of flak for it, mostly justifiable. You know that, as computers are your specialty.

    But there is a huge difference - each successive version of Windows, sans ME, had some definite improvements. RIM, on the other hand, keeps trying to make BlackBerrys into both an iPhone & a WM competitor, while praying they can fend off Google & Linux, on a platform that wasn't all that good or capable several years ago - but back then, it was sufficient for the task & simple, too.

    BlackBerrys choke on non-basic email, yet email is the BlackBerry calling card. We now have Google offering Enterprise-level push email for free on iPhone & WM - and Micrsosoft & Yahoo will be doing something similar soon.

    Apple has rolled out substantial improvements with each new model. Google is promising major improvements every 6 months for Android. Some will say that WM6 is a rehashed CE core, but that is really disingenuous & ignorant, at best - Apple & Linux are both based heavily on UNIX, a core that dates back to 1964. WM 6.5 next week, a refresh around February & an all new core with WM7 late Spring. Yet RIM still can't get HTML down.

    RIM won't get it down until they ditch their current platform - but they are too heavily wedded to the BlackBerry server model. To change the server model means the current models would be obsolete overnight, unless they ran twin networks.

    Anyone who thinks BlackBerry is a capable platform need to look no further than the Opera browser. Why is Opera so much more capable on other platforms, yet a bit clunky & slow on BlackBerry? Could it be the OS/platform can't handle it? Yup.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    09-28-09 11:24 PM
  10. i7guy's Avatar
    Mostly people who hated MS to start with. Vista sold well.

    Refurb and new are different things. Selling refurbs doesn't affect new.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    I disagree. 1) Vista sold well not because it was great, because the only other choice was Linux if you wanted an up to date 64 bit operating system (XP is not a *new* operating system). People hate RIM as they MSFT, because, when you think email you think BBery (for a reason). However, unlike MSFT they do deliver. (I use Vista 64 maybe that's why I like RIM)

    2) If other people are like my friend (and I'm sure they are), he got a refurb because he wouldn't buy one (for real money). He ended up by getting a BBery.
    Last edited by i7guy; 09-29-09 at 07:12 AM.
    09-29-09 06:58 AM
  11. i7guy's Avatar
    Well, yes & no. While Vista sold well, MS took a lot of flak for it, mostly justifiable. You know that, as computers are your specialty.

    But there is a huge difference - each successive version of Windows, sans ME, had some definite improvements. RIM, on the other hand, keeps trying to make BlackBerrys into both an iPhone & a WM competitor, while praying they can fend off Google & Linux, on a platform that wasn't all that good or capable several years ago - but back then, it was sufficient for the task & simple, too.

    BlackBerrys choke on non-basic email, yet email is the BlackBerry calling card. We now have Google offering Enterprise-level push email for free on iPhone & WM - and Micrsosoft & Yahoo will be doing something similar soon.

    Apple has rolled out substantial improvements with each new model. Google is promising major improvements every 6 months for Android. Some will say that WM6 is a rehashed CE core, but that is really disingenuous & ignorant, at best - Apple & Linux are both based heavily on UNIX, a core that dates back to 1964. WM 6.5 next week, a refresh around February & an all new core with WM7 late Spring. Yet RIM still can't get HTML down.

    RIM won't get it down until they ditch their current platform - but they are too heavily wedded to the BlackBerry server model. To change the server model means the current models would be obsolete overnight, unless they ran twin networks.

    Anyone who thinks BlackBerry is a capable platform need to look no further than the Opera browser. Why is Opera so much more capable on other platforms, yet a bit clunky & slow on BlackBerry? Could it be the OS/platform can't handle it? Yup.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Using this logic one think a program written for let say Ubuntu should be able to run as a native windows app and then ask the question why aren't these Unix/Linux variants pushing MSFT out of business? After all you can get 98% of the functionality of Windows with a free download.

    Which businesses really care about gmail as an enterprise platform? Those fortune 500 companies who do, and my guess is zero, are not RIMs target customers.

    Having a BBery be a consumer phone is just as difficult as making WinMo into an enterprise platform. Andoid may be promising, Google has interesting software. As these manufacturers try to encroach on each others territory it will be interesting to see who can corner any piece of the market.
    Last edited by i7guy; 09-29-09 at 07:14 AM.
    09-29-09 07:11 AM
  12. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    Using this logic one think a program written for let say Ubuntu should be able to run as a native windows app and then ask the question why aren't these Unix/Linux variants pushing MSFT out of business? After all you can get 98% of the functionality of Windows with a free download.

    Which businesses really care about gmail as an enterprise platform? Those fortune 500 companies who do, and my guess is zero, are not RIMs target customers.

    Having a BBery be a consumer phone is just as difficult as making WinMo into an enterprise platform. Andoid may be promising, Google has interesting software. As these manufacturers try to encroach on each others territory it will be interesting to see who can corner any piece of the market.
    Your incessant twisting of everything I say into a reason to claim BlabkBerry is the only choice for business is getting tiring. I hate to tell yo uthis, but BlackBerry is the choice for messenging attorneys and stock brokers. It isn't number one worldwide and it isn't in the majority of Fortune 500 employee hands.

    My post was talking about patterns and capabilities. Your response had zero to do with what I wrote, except to pull out shots at Windows & try to again claim that businesses only run BlackBerry.

    Sorry, but those Fortune 500 companies are far more likely to have a Windows Enterprise server than they are to have a BlackBerry Enterprise Server - they can't run their network on BES.

    Windows Mobile is often considered too technical & complicated for consumers - it sells very well in the corporate environment.

    A couple of bits I uncovered from the archives. The first one illustrates RIMs lack of foresight.

    THERES a reason that R.I.M. is averse to the iPhones glass pad. I couldnt type on it and I still cant type on it, and a lot of my friends cant type on it, says Mike Lazaridis, R.I.M.s co-chief executive and technological visionary. Its hard to type on a piece of glass. - Christmastime 2007


    In a survey this year of 3,600 professionals by ChangeWave, a research company, 54 percent of BlackBerry users said they were very satisfied with their devices.

    Even so, the BlackBerry was a distant second in the survey: the comparable figure for the iPhone was 79 percent.
    - WSJ article
    09-29-09 08:32 AM
  13. Coachbulldog's Avatar
    ...The first one illustrates RIMs lack of foresight....THERES a reason that R.I.M. is averse to the iPhones glass pad. I couldnt type on it and I still cant type on it, and a lot of my friends cant type on it, says Mike Lazaridis, R.I.M.s co-chief executive and technological visionary. Its hard to type on a piece of glass. - Christmastime 2007
    I agree with the points you are making Twins. I have been a high school teacher since 1979 and what is happening in the mobile phone industry is similar to what happened with computers in the late 70s and 80s. There was a time where a LARGE percentage of the computers in the US public schools were Apple computers. Apple dominated in education. As the PC came on the scene Apple did very little to appeal to the mass public because they were the #1 choice in education. But as time passed the computer became more than just a device used in education. It became a multi-media experience; email, online chats, streaming video, etc...that everyone from business folks to elementary school age children used. Apple didn't realize until it was too late that even their position in education was at risk and that the PC/Windows was pushing them out of what they believed to be their secure territory. Most schools today are dominated by PCs with a Windows operating system and it has taken Apple years to competed in the personal computer market.

    RIM seems to be going down the same road. They are taking the position they are #1 in the business community and they don't have to pay a great deal of attention to the mass of consumers that are buying devices like the iPhone. In the most recent Crackberry podcast Kevin was commenting on RIM's recent earnings report and he said the RIM executive giving the report "belittled apps." If this is where RIM is coming from they are inviting huge difficulties because regardless of what RIM executives believe, the mass of consumers want apps and their phone and they are going to purchase devices that provide them with what they want.
    09-29-09 09:27 AM
  14. tomwiz's Avatar
    Twins is right.

    I own several vzw premium retailer stores and our return rate (both defective and customers unhappy with the phone) on blackberry devices is absolutely staggering. It costs me so mcuh money a year to ship these pieces back.

    I really look froward to the day verizon has a valid alterntiave
    09-29-09 09:54 AM
  15. blue_and_bold's Avatar

    I really look froward to the day verizon has a valid alterntiave
    We all do.
    09-29-09 10:01 AM
  16. forkup's Avatar
    I've had my 8330 for almost a year now and it's my first smart phone. Like many others here I've become addicted to it however I'm beginning to realize that what I thought was a blackberry addiction is actually just a smart phone in general addiction. I've become addicted to having the web access and all that goes along with it. I'm a heavy pc and internet user when home and having it mobile is something I'd hate to give up.

    I've looked forward to the Storm2 like many others here but lately have started looking at other devices such as the htc touch pro 2. Rim is trying to make every conceivable device shape and format to have a phone that appeals to everyone. They are going hog wild if you will with all the hardware but seem to be very slow developing software that the masses want.

    As I watch youtube clips of some of the other new smart phones out I'm seeing how badly Rim is falling behind software wise. Yea they may have a new browser coming and everyone is drooling over OS 5.0 but what major advantage will it give the end user....not a lot that I can see.

    They may be raking in the money currently but if they wish to succeed in the long term they have absolutely got to do something about their OS whether it be a total redesign or make the move to another platform. I imagine somewhere they are secretly working on all this because if not they are going nowhere fast.

    I have a lot of unix and fbsd experience and android appeals to me. While it's still in its infancy I expect great things from it. Now we are finally seeing manufactorers making more phones for it.

    I'll be doing a lot of research looking at all the new smart phones. While I may still get myself a Storm2 that will last me a year I expect this time next year I'll be taking a long hard look at a platform other than blackberry.
    09-29-09 11:09 AM
  17. Coachbulldog's Avatar
    Twins is right.

    I own several vzw premium retailer stores and our return rate (both defective and customers unhappy with the phone) on blackberry devices is absolutely staggering. It costs me so much money a year to ship these pieces back.

    I really look froward to the day verizon has a valid alterntiave
    Interesting perspective. Since you are a Verizon retailer I am curious how much pressure, if any, Verizon's retailers are putting on Verizon to offer a better selection of smart phones. I am sure as a retailer you would love to be able to offer the iPhone. Verizon keeps saying the network is their priority but there is going to come a point where Verizon is going to have to compete with the carriers in terms of handsets. It might get to a point where RIM needs Verizon more than Verizon needs RIM.

    I've had my 8330 for almost a year now and it's my first smart phone. Like many others here I've become addicted to it however I'm beginning to realize that what I thought was a blackberry addiction is actually just a smart phone in general addiction.....I've looked forward to the Storm2 like many others here but lately have started looking at other devices such as the htc touch pro 2.
    I never thought of it from this perspective, but you described how I look at it. I love my Curve and everything it can do but if a better unit came along I would consider switching to it. I am hoping the Storm 2 is that unitl. There will always be a sector of the mobile phone community that RIM-BlackBerry will appeal too but, if it is going to continue to grow, it is going to have to offer smart phones that attracts customers beyond their current base.
    09-29-09 12:18 PM
  18. NVR2ND's Avatar
    I think that verizon has unhappy customers due to the fact that they charge 30/month per device, and sometime the service is NOT worth the buck a day...

    The bogo promo is a joke. Most times there will be a New every 2 credit that is being given up. So on a storm, you would be buying and getting one free either way. unless you did 2 new tours you would be losing money on the bogo if you have that NE2 credit.

    Now if verizon offered an unlimited data plan ofr 19.99 RIM's market share would go from 33% to higher then 50%(I assume). You would Not believe the number of people that I talk to every day that want a BB, but dont want to pay 60 to get 2 of them. Heck I dont want by 29.99 per line, and 3/4 of me believes that I actually need it. Lucky for me though I get 50% the data fee for working at an indirect, so it isnt even a thought.
    09-29-09 02:29 PM
  19. forkup's Avatar
    They should not charge $30/device only $30 for the plan like when you add a line and keep the same minutes.
    09-29-09 04:44 PM
  20. DesertDogs's Avatar
    They should not charge $30/device only $30 for the plan like when you add a line and keep the same minutes.
    They might do something like that if there was a cap on the data like there is on Rogue.

    But what do I know? Wireless Vet says I only exist in Dad's imagination and WV is everyone's hero!
    09-29-09 08:28 PM
  21. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    But what do I know? Wireless Vet says I only exist in Dad's imagination and WV is everyone's hero!
    A) He is the type to wear his name on his belt so he can remember it when he pulls hos head out of ...

    B) My imagination sure ate a lot at my house last week.

    They should not charge $30/device only $30 for the plan like when you add a line and keep the same minutes.
    Dogs is correct, in concept - take a look at unlimited family minutes plans on the various carriers. I believe VZW is $99.99 for one line, $199.98 for two, $299.97 for three, $499.95 for five. Notice the pattern? No discount on unlimited. AT&T's rates are mirror-images, so don't tell me VZW is more expensive.

    The $9.99 additional line deal is for lines 3-5 & only on the plans with a finite number of minutes. Same with AT&T.

    So, let's say they offer 5GB family plan for $29.99, with $9.99 each additional - you all share that 5GB. Sound like a good deal? Didn't think so.

    Then you need to consider that RIM gets about 50% of the BlackBerry data fees.

    Has anyone noticed you can't get unlimited voice only or even voice/text on Sprint? To get unlimited voice, you must also get data. For their Simply Everything plan, you're looking at $99.99 for one, with each additional line at $89.99, for only a 10% discount on the additional lines. Have five lines & your total net discount is only 8%.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    09-29-09 10:41 PM
  22. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    RIM seems to be going down the same road. They are taking the position they are #1 in the business community and they don't have to pay a great deal of attention to the mass of consumers that are buying devices like the iPhone. In the most recent Crackberry podcast Kevin was commenting on RIM's recent earnings report and he said the RIM executive giving the report "belittled apps." If this is where RIM is coming from they are inviting huge difficulties because regardless of what RIM executives believe, the mass of consumers want apps and their phone and they are going to purchase devices that provide them with what they want.
    It is arrogance. RIM thinks they can do no wrong. As you mentioned, the same attitude befell Apple, but then again, it bit Microsoft a little, too. And look what arrogance did to Netscape.

    I really look froward to the day verizon has a valid alterntiave
    There are valid alternatives - people just have to stop holding so tightly to one brand or one OS that they lose sight of the bigger picture. Are those alternatives right for everyone? No, but many of those alternatives are certainly more capable than what many here clamor for.

    One has to measure the tradeoffs in different platforms & choose accordingly. The educated soul doesn't bunch apples & oranges together, though. We all hear about the deficiencies of iPhone, but many of those crying the loudest have never owned one. We hear about how "clunky" WM is - again, many have never owned one - and even some who have, missed the bigger picture. WM is probably the most varied mobile platform out there, from basic to Pro to TouchWiz & TouchFlo UIs. Even WM from one model to another from the same manufacturer can be dramatically different. If I had to live with WM on an XV6800, I'd have launched it out a window long ago. But the Samsung i-760, the contemporary of the XV 6800, wasn't bad - with a fraction of the RAM.

    Most people here have never seen Symbian, much less worked with it - Nokia hasn't been a household word here in a few years - but they sell far more phones than does RIM.

    We are seeing the emergence of Google's Android & the Linux-based Maemo, as well as an upcoming Linux-based OS from Samsung. I predict that in the next 12 months, Linux & WM will be the kings of the hill.

    Poor Palm seems destined to either oblivion or takeover by Microsoft. That is too bad, because the WebOS is a terrific OS in need of a more polished phone on a better network.

    We all do.
    See above - open your eyes & your mind - it is out there. October 6th promises to be a day the US smartphone world may not soon forget - WM6.5 in a coordinated worldwide release which may result in as many as five new non-BlackBerry smartphones for VZW alone. We could also see Android come to VZW. TP2 just out a couple weeks ago & sold out, with WM6.1 even. Tour never managed a sellout, having fallen well below initial sales estimates. RIM is seriously crossing their fingers that the Storm2 can even manage making a showing in the lineup.

    I've looked forward to the Storm2 like many others here but lately have started looking at other devices such as the htc touch pro 2. Rim is trying to make every conceivable device shape and format to have a phone that appeals to everyone. They are going hog wild if you will with all the hardware but seem to be very slow developing software that the masses want.

    As I watch youtube clips of some of the other new smart phones out I'm seeing how badly Rim is falling behind software wise. Yea they may have a new browser coming and everyone is drooling over OS 5.0 but what major advantage will it give the end user....not a lot that I can see.
    Dead on, there - and they can drool all they want over 5.0 - it is less of an improvement for BlackBerry than 6.5 is for WM. It is pretty bad when point releases are better than version releases.

    Interesting perspective. Since you are a Verizon retailer I am curious how much pressure, if any, Verizon's retailers are putting on Verizon to offer a better selection of smart phones. I am sure as a retailer you would love to be able to offer the iPhone. Verizon keeps saying the network is their priority but there is going to come a point where Verizon is going to have to compete with the carriers in terms of handsets. It might get to a point where RIM needs Verizon more than Verizon needs RIM.
    They have seen a ton of pressure - but not just from retailers - customers & shareholders have kept the fire lit.

    Personally, I believe RIM already needs VZW more than VZW needs RIM. AT&T somewhat dissed RIM by featuring the iPhone in everything. T-Mobile is focusing on Android now - they don't need RIM. Sprint seems to screw up everything, including the Palm Pre & needs simply everything - but the RIM take of the data revenue is something Sprint can't afford, so they push other devices.

    VZW has seen a few things backfire in the past couple of years. I have heard that there is an agreement where they push BlackBerrys, RIM gives them deep discounts & special pricing on BlackBerry devices - this is seen in BOGOS & other cut-rate deals. Yet AT&T is making headway against VZW not on ther back of BlackBerry - but on iPhone & other devices.

    Contrary to the belief of many on this site, the vast majority of cell phone customers do not want a BlackBerry. Between VZW & AT&T, you're looking at close to 170,000,000 lines of service. Toss in Sprint & T-Mobile, and we're at around 245 million lines. Add the Canadian carriers & we're closing in on 400million lines. Yet look at the total number of BlackBerry lines open worldwide. Even if we went high & said 40 million, then looked at the number of customer lines on all carriers that offered BlackBerry, & we're looking at less than 3% of lines are BlackBerry. It isn't that great & a higher percentage of AT&T customers have an iPhone.

    I have seen far too many prople get one, be frustrated about the vast number of sites that crash their browsers & the limited number of things they can do, decide the $30 isn't worth it & return the phone. RIM has been reaching out to consumers - but they have added half-baked features to a bare-bones OS & hope it does well against iPhone. Well, it worked for awhile, until people decided they wanted more.They looked at iPhone - some switch to AT&T for it, while others refuse to leave VZW. An odd thing happens in the world of BlackBerry - they report sales, but do not adjust for returns. Many of their reported numbers are inflated.

    For those of you who have researched with an open mind & still want a BlackBerry, good for you - but you're probably not hanging out on the fansites. You chose BlackBerry out of a realistic decision & not out of hype & speculation.

    I would venture to say that those who constantly are wanting the next one couldn't be too happy with their current one - I wonder why? About a third of the Samsung i-760s sold are still in use. Hang out on xda-dev, ars or even WMExperts & you see a lot of people wondering if the Omnia 2 or TP2 is the one they should finally retire their old Samsung for. As much as I disliked the XV6700/6800, there are even still quite a few of those still in use. Many TYTN-II users didn't rush right out for the TP2, because their Tilt-on-Steroids still does well by them. BlackBerry users who adamantly defend BlackBerry as the "best" out there, typically are wanting that one phone that might finally have the cool-factor of those iPhones or have a smooth Zippo lighter app. Wheeee!

    Those who want the best device, regardless of the brand on front, are probably much happier & more loyal. You quietly research & decide based on what is best for your needs & budget. You don't go with fads & instead put your money into something that works. If BlackBerry works for you, wonderful - you don't need my approval, anyway. But for the vast majority of cell-phone users, BlackBerry is not where it is at.

    The preceding was written by someone who supposedly conjures up alternate egoes just to upset vets of some private industry or another...
    09-29-09 11:46 PM
  23. sportboy's Avatar
    Good post.


    I've had my 8330 for almost a year now and it's my first smart phone. Like many others here I've become addicted to it however I'm beginning to realize that what I thought was a blackberry addiction is actually just a smart phone in general addiction. I've become addicted to having the web access and all that goes along with it. I'm a heavy pc and internet user when home and having it mobile is something I'd hate to give up.

    I've looked forward to the Storm2 like many others here but lately have started looking at other devices such as the htc touch pro 2. Rim is trying to make every conceivable device shape and format to have a phone that appeals to everyone. They are going hog wild if you will with all the hardware but seem to be very slow developing software that the masses want.

    As I watch youtube clips of some of the other new smart phones out I'm seeing how badly Rim is falling behind software wise. Yea they may have a new browser coming and everyone is drooling over OS 5.0 but what major advantage will it give the end user....not a lot that I can see.

    They may be raking in the money currently but if they wish to succeed in the long term they have absolutely got to do something about their OS whether it be a total redesign or make the move to another platform. I imagine somewhere they are secretly working on all this because if not they are going nowhere fast.

    I have a lot of unix and fbsd experience and android appeals to me. While it's still in its infancy I expect great things from it. Now we are finally seeing manufactorers making more phones for it.

    I'll be doing a lot of research looking at all the new smart phones. While I may still get myself a Storm2 that will last me a year I expect this time next year I'll be taking a long hard look at a platform other than blackberry.
    09-30-09 06:44 AM
  24. Wireless Vet's Avatar
    Twins is right.

    I own several vzw premium retailer stores and our return rate (both defective and customers unhappy with the phone) on blackberry devices is absolutely staggering. It costs me so mcuh money a year to ship these pieces back.

    I really look froward to the day verizon has a valid alterntiave
    Our return rates are high to, but it's not so much because of the quality of the product, it's because people see the deal in the BOGO and go for it, when they really don't have a need for the product.

    We are now evaluated on our return rates, which is a joke.

    I had a husband, wife and daughter who were in the other night and the mother and daughter took advantage of the bogo on the Storm. I did all I could to ensure the mother was comfortable with it and she insisted she would be fine. Sure enough, she brought it back and traded it for a Curve. I asked her what some of her issues were and she said she couldn't do this and couldn't do that. I picked up her phone and demonstrated doing this and that were fine, but the bottom line is, some people can't handle the Storm. I got mine on December 19th and am still on my first.
    09-30-09 07:57 AM
  25. blue_and_bold's Avatar
    Our return rates are high to, but it's not so much because of the quality of the product, it's because people see the deal in the BOGO and go for it, when they really don't have a need for the product.

    We are now evaluated on our return rates, which is a joke.

    I had a husband, wife and daughter who were in the other night and the mother and daughter took advantage of the bogo on the Storm. I did all I could to ensure the mother was comfortable with it and she insisted she would be fine. Sure enough, she brought it back and traded it for a Curve. I asked her what some of her issues were and she said she couldn't do this and couldn't do that. I picked up her phone and demonstrated doing this and that were fine, but the bottom line is, some people can't handle the Storm. I got mine on December 19th and am still on my first.
    I agree its a whole lot of phone for some people. Its hard to go from lg 5200 and so on to a phone like the storm. Its corolla to gallardo... A big jump. I'm still on my first tour I got several days after release. Sure the battery door is loose but I don't see it as a reason for a replacement as it spends most its time in a case. Screen ripples a little sure but I'm not expecting perfection like everyone else.
    09-30-09 08:11 AM
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