08-03-09 07:14 AM
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  1. slinky#CB's Avatar
    It does make sense to me. Having a bb with no data plan is a preferrence. I should be able to have a cool looking phone without having to dish out 30 bucks a month. Its not that it doesnt make any sense. People have different needs. I would like to have a storm with just voice and texting plan and do away with data plan. I have a laptop for that.
    I agree. They did it because they can and a very few are upset because they can't. If you don't want a data plan, get a flip phone. Verizon isn't in business to cater to poseurs especially when the data plan helps subsidize the phone price. I am not willing to pay extra for my phone for a few pretenders out there.

    You say Carrier X allows it? Fine then go to Carrier X. But Carrier X probably has plans to require it too in the very near future.

    Some people really need to grow up and realize it is just a phone and they have no right to a phone.
    The answer is simple: $$. It's not a technical inability, it's just Verizon's business policy. Arguing the logic of it won't change it. I've got 2 bb's running on T-Mobile with no data.
    Our government is allowing us to get bent over and raped financially with impunity. What on earth are you guys babbling about? Perhaps we should dump you out on the street and out of your house that you paid for because someone may have a contract with someone else? I am no longer in contract. Any subsidy I may have received is long recouped. Now Verizon and RIM are both bending the consumer over and extracting cash with force.

    Here's the scoop. I've had my Blackberry for a year and change. I got another phone and plan to just use my Verizon line for voice service. All I wanted to do was shut down the data plan and use the phone for the phone portion. I was told it's impossible because their systems have been programmed to identify Blackberry ESN numbers and automatically add data. WHY on earth should I be forced to buy another phone to accomplish voice service with a phone I OWN. RIM cannot take my phone away. It's my property. This is not a new contract issue.

    Because Verizon has an agreement with Blackberry, it should not affect my ownership of a Blackberry whatsoever, and my service agreement with Blackberry. What VZW and RIM did was screw me indirectly via the fact that together, they have a monopoly on services which is indirectly forced upon the consumer. At some point it could be possible that you'll be forced to have a data, phone, text and whatever plan and have no reason to believe that if you bought the phone outright that you should be able to choose whatever services you want.

    This is no different than the issue I recently discovered with the iPhone. If you complete your contract with AT&T, Apple still won't unlock your phone and may require a data plan. Basically it's a way of these companies screwing consumers to the wall by putting in built in bombs that virtually all consumers wouldn't expect or has no choice but to accept.

    So quit yer complaining that it's the consumer's fault and get on the side that is backing you. We're getting financially bent over because Verizon decided it was in their best interests and I have to deal with it because my legislators are too busy hanging out in nightclubs or whatever it is that they do. TheScionicMan is right - and VZW should have had in big print that you are screwed into a data plan whether you like it or not whenever you buy their phone - because after you do, where else can you go with it?
    Last edited by slinky; 07-31-09 at 09:52 AM.
    07-31-09 09:49 AM
  2. TheScionicMan's Avatar
    What VZW and RIM did was screw me indirectly via the fact that together, they have a monopoly on services which is indirectly forced upon the consumer.
    Yes, if you exclude the several other companies that sell Blackberries and service, it's quite a monopoly they have there...
    07-31-09 10:10 AM
  3. blue_and_bold's Avatar
    Should have gone with a different provider.
    07-31-09 10:19 AM
  4. slinky#CB's Avatar
    Yes, if you exclude the several other companies that sell Blackberries and service, it's quite a monopoly they have there...
    If you have a blackberry on Verizon, you have no choices. You cannot switch to AT&T or T-Mobile. The phone will also not work on Sprint without major hacking, if that is even possible. The monopoly is that your phone becomes a brick because the companies themselves have decided to give you one option even though you would not be under the assumption that is the case. When I had my Treo, I could have voice only, data only, or voice and data. From what I'm told I get conflicting reports that RIM requires data because (a) that is their contract with VZW, or (b) that VZW cannot provide voice with a Blackberry without data because their data plan is always on and there are leaks resulting in data charges indirectly, etc. Regardless of the reason, one should be aware that if you buy a blackberry on Verizon Wireless you will never be offered a voice only plan. If I had known this, I may have bought a Treo or other data phone instead that didn't force me into this plan.
    07-31-09 10:25 AM
  5. blue_and_bold's Avatar
    If you have a blackberry on Verizon, you have no choices. You cannot switch to AT&T or T-Mobile. The phone will also not work on Sprint without major hacking, if that is even possible. The monopoly is that your phone becomes a brick because the companies themselves have decided to give you one option even though you would not be under the assumption that is the case. When I had my Treo, I could have voice only, data only, or voice and data. From what I'm told I get conflicting reports that RIM requires data because (a) that is their contract with VZW, or (b) that VZW cannot provide voice with a Blackberry without data because their data plan is always on and there are leaks resulting in data charges indirectly, etc. Regardless of the reason, one should be aware that if you buy a blackberry on Verizon Wireless you will never be offered a voice only plan. If I had known this, I may have bought a Treo or other data phone instead that didn't force me into this plan.
    You had 30 days to make up your mind and you did. I agree that there should be an option that doesnt require a data plan, but don't complain about vzw "forcing" you into anything. You signed on the dotted line.
    07-31-09 10:31 AM
  6. TheScionicMan's Avatar
    I'll trade you your Verizon Curve for a ATT Curve, if that would help...
    07-31-09 10:39 AM
  7. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    If you have a blackberry on Verizon, you have no choices. You cannot switch to AT&T or T-Mobile. The phone will also not work on Sprint without major hacking, if that is even possible. The monopoly is that your phone becomes a brick because the companies themselves have decided to give you one option even though you would not be under the assumption that is the case. When I had my Treo, I could have voice only, data only, or voice and data. From what I'm told I get conflicting reports that RIM requires data because (a) that is their contract with VZW, or (b) that VZW cannot provide voice with a Blackberry without data because their data plan is always on and there are leaks resulting in data charges indirectly, etc. Regardless of the reason, one should be aware that if you buy a blackberry on Verizon Wireless you will never be offered a voice only plan. If I had known this, I may have bought a Treo or other data phone instead that didn't force me into this plan.
    Oh waaaaah - were you asleep, drunk or high when you signed on?

    I'd like to see you take an AT&T of T-Mobile phone that is under contract - no one held a gun to your head on this - and use it on VZW or Sprint.

    The other carriers are moving to require data plans, too - so your option will soon only be the one that fits - a dumbphone.

    Maybe you need to learn the realities of cell phone service, how to read & understand BEFORE you commit and then hold up your end of what you committed to.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-31-09 11:15 AM
  8. slinky#CB's Avatar
    You had 30 days to make up your mind and you did. I agree that there should be an option that doesnt require a data plan, but don't complain about vzw "forcing" you into anything. You signed on the dotted line.
    I AM NOT UNDER CONTRACT. I HAVE NO CONTRACT EXCEPT FOR A PHONE THAT I BOUGHT AND FULFILLED MY END OF BUYING A DATA+VOICE PLAN FOR ONE YEAR.

    The point is that I own my phone. I can connect it voice only, data only, or voice plus data. When my contract is DONE, Verizon can still screw me indirectly. How? Because they will claim that they cannot sell me any service except for voice plus data for my Blackberry. Why? Because they have an agreement with RIM? Why didn't anyone tell me this before I signed on that dotted line, only that I was required to buy voice and data during the term of my original contract? They should say "you will NEVER be able to use that phone on Verizon EXCEPT with a voice AND data plan." That sounds a lot more imposing on a consumer... that's why.

    So yes, when your contract is DONE, FINISHED, COMPLETE, you STILL have to buy data plus voice. You have NO CHOICE but to only buy data plus voice. The phone cannot be used on any other service either so it becomes worthless if you want to use voice only.
    07-31-09 11:38 AM
  9. lastraid's Avatar
    I AM NOT UNDER CONTRACT. I HAVE NO CONTRACT EXCEPT FOR A PHONE THAT I BOUGHT AND FULFILLED MY END OF BUYING A DATA+VOICE PLAN FOR ONE YEAR.

    The point is that I own my phone. I can connect it voice only, data only, or voice plus data. When my contract is DONE, Verizon can still screw me indirectly. How? Because they will claim that they cannot sell me any service except for voice plus data for my Blackberry. Why? Because they have an agreement with RIM? Why didn't anyone tell me this before I signed on that dotted line, only that I was required to buy voice and data during the term of my original contract? They should say "you will NEVER be able to use that phone on Verizon EXCEPT with a voice AND data plan." That sounds a lot more imposing on a consumer... that's why.

    So yes, when your contract is DONE, FINISHED, COMPLETE, you STILL have to buy data plus voice. You have NO CHOICE but to only buy data plus voice. The phone cannot be used on any other service either so it becomes worthless if you want to use voice only.
    Contract or not data is required. Yet another person that want to depend on a body called government to run and control his life. If you do not like it, then do the american thing and sue. Complaining here is just that and will do nothing.

    Find a carrier that does do this. Although most are going to it. Part of the reason for this is folks like you that do not want it, will then use and then call for huge credits. Can't block data then you get no picture messages. These devices are bred for data as well.

    Btw if you do sue, good luck I doubt you will win.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-31-09 11:56 AM
  10. tsguy52's Avatar
    The answer is simple: $$. It's not a technical inability, it's just Verizon's business policy. Arguing the logic of it won't change it. I've got 2 bb's running on T-Mobile with no data.
    Correct - Verizon is a business. Profit is made. Get over it.
    07-31-09 01:08 PM
  11. RicanMedic78's Avatar
    LMAO! I havent really seen pickering like this in a while. Its amazing how no one acknowledges anyone elses points and resorts to insults and smeers!

    There are points on both sides... If you want to argue what "IS," then guess what, a data plan IS required!

    Will arguing on here get you anywhere? Absolutely not! Its what discussion was designed for! Why would we talk politics at the dinner table is nothing can be done anyway? Get my point?

    If you want to argue that most people would want a data plan anyway, then guess what... Most people WANT a data plan anyway!

    If you want to argue what should be, then, a data plan SHOULD be an OPTION!

    If you want to hear a big fat lie, that is that, a blackberry cannot be connected without a data plan! It can, and it can also be done without mistakes! Every carrier has done it without problems and all of them are also changing to "required" data plans and that is a farce!

    To those debating, less bickering and more dialog creates a better environment to acheive common ground. Theres a lot of good points on both sides and what IS and what is ETHICAL has a clear and obvious separation
    Last edited by RicanMedic78; 07-31-09 at 01:21 PM.
    07-31-09 01:19 PM
  12. gotblackberry's Avatar
    Our government is allowing us to get bent over and raped financially with impunity. What on earth are you guys babbling about? Perhaps we should dump you out on the street and out of your house that you paid for because someone may have a contract with someone else? I am no longer in contract. Any subsidy I may have received is long recouped. Now Verizon and RIM are both bending the consumer over and extracting cash with force.

    Here's the scoop. I've had my Blackberry for a year and change. I got another phone and plan to just use my Verizon line for voice service. All I wanted to do was shut down the data plan and use the phone for the phone portion. I was told it's impossible because their systems have been programmed to identify Blackberry ESN numbers and automatically add data. WHY on earth should I be forced to buy another phone to accomplish voice service with a phone I OWN. RIM cannot take my phone away. It's my property. This is not a new contract issue.

    Because Verizon has an agreement with Blackberry, it should not affect my ownership of a Blackberry whatsoever, and my service agreement with Blackberry. What VZW and RIM did was screw me indirectly via the fact that together, they have a monopoly on services which is indirectly forced upon the consumer. At some point it could be possible that you'll be forced to have a data, phone, text and whatever plan and have no reason to believe that if you bought the phone outright that you should be able to choose whatever services you want.

    This is no different than the issue I recently discovered with the iPhone. If you complete your contract with AT&T, Apple still won't unlock your phone and may require a data plan. Basically it's a way of these companies screwing consumers to the wall by putting in built in bombs that virtually all consumers wouldn't expect or has no choice but to accept.

    So quit yer complaining that it's the consumer's fault and get on the side that is backing you. We're getting financially bent over because Verizon decided it was in their best interests and I have to deal with it because my legislators are too busy hanging out in nightclubs or whatever it is that they do. TheScionicMan is right - and VZW should have had in big print that you are screwed into a data plan whether you like it or not whenever you buy their phone - because after you do, where else can you go with it?
    Our government is not letting us get taken for financially. Our government IS taking us financially. Do you understand how much of your income you pay in taxes now? Do you understand how much MORE you will pay in taxes if this healthcare bill gets passed, along with many of the other government programs? You complain about a data plan and say the government is allowing it? Perhaps if they lowered our tax burden to the government you could more easily afford a data plan.

    I'm not sure why everyone falls back on government to fight their battles for them. If you can point to me in the constitution where the governments job is to look out for you at all times and make sure you're doing okay -- please show me it. I think this is still a free market economy and it's still a partial capatilist economy, why does that always get thrown at the window when people have a complaint. Government regulations makes things worse, not better, voting with your wallet (i.e. leaving the company, not buying a BB if you don't want the data plan) works SO MUCH BETTER. Yet, you don't do this. You KNEW the BB required a data plan yet you bought one anyways, why? Just so you could come on here and complain and act like Verizon is forcing you to have a data plan? Seriously, it's really ridiculous.

    And just to remind you to try to think before you talk, as I said, I am NOT under a contractual commitment. After my contract is done my phone becomes a brick unless I pay Verizon Wireless as much as they want or lose my investment in the phone. These options are certainly avaialable but they aren't providing them to me. Wireless companies are akin to public utilities in many ways. We only have 4 and what you've invested in is, unfortunately, not interchangeable and your investment (accessories etc.) means you're screwed. Our government should have been regulating this area but has been too busy with their own tax fraud and cavorting with people other than their spouses. Wake up and see the forest.
    Just because you're not in a contract does not mean you're not bound by the terms and conditions of Verizon Wireless. Perhaps you should think before you talk.
    07-31-09 01:28 PM
  13. krishkrish33's Avatar
    Its not 1.99 per mb, thats only with GIN capable phones. The overage rate or per kb rate for bb is 0.015/kb. And the system has been allowing you too add the "pay per use" plan even though you couldnt before.
    This usually happens when they are on an old Americas Choice plan, where they pay per minute for data.... strange. I'd fill out a DIMOND report.
    07-31-09 09:33 PM
  14. slinky#CB's Avatar
    You're right. You aren't under contract for the phone or data plan so you are free to take it to any carrier that will activate a blackberry with no data plan. The phone isn't locked to Verizon so get to it.
    The Blackberry IS locked or virtually locked to Verizon Wireless. Do you want to explain to us how you got yours onto AT&T?
    07-31-09 11:27 PM
  15. vatothe0's Avatar
    At least tou admit to knowing nothing, sort of.

    The Storm, Tour, HTC Ozone, Samsung Renown and Saga are all quad band GSM and can be unlocked and used with AT&T or TMobile. Verizon doesn't even charge to unlock it.
    If you want to use a CDMA only phone with another carrier, the service lock code for EVERY verizon phone is 000000.

    Now there's no excuse to say you're forced to use Verizon.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    08-01-09 12:28 AM
  16. slinky#CB's Avatar
    Blackberries are intended specifically for e-mail. Not showing off at high school or shoving into the faces of the proverbial joneses. You wouldn't buy a laptop just to show off and not actually use, would you? If you don't want it for what its meant for, buy one and don't activate it. Because a blackberry without data is hardly a blackberry at all.
    I'm keeping my cool here since perhaps this didn't dawn on you.

    I bought a Blackberry and used it for a year and change. I have another line that is being primarily used for data and I felt like switching the BB to use for voice only, just like I did for the Treo. Unfortunately VZW said they will not accommodate because they made a deal with RIM to only provide service for a BB via voice plus data plans. I didn't see why I should be forced to buy another phone or cough up for a data plan I don't need when I already had a BB, which is a phone, perhaps not utilized to full capacity but it did the job.
    Last edited by slinky; 08-01-09 at 03:46 AM.
    08-01-09 03:41 AM
  17. Polychrome's Avatar
    Then in that case, I'd ask around my friends to see if anybody has a spare flip phone laying around. Either that or check Craigslist. Make sure to check the ESN with us before forking over any money for the latter. Yes, that's a serious suggestion.

    Data plans are required not just because "Rim Said So", but because without them, you'd have tons of mommies buying blackberries for all the "little billies" out there just so he can look good for his classmates, before blocking everything but voice and text on his $10 a month line. And that's not why we sell $400 devices for $100 on a 2-year. :P Yes, admittedly, data plans do filter out the people who would buy these expensive devices and never use them as intended. That's why we have Voyagers and Envs.

    Seem unfair? Maybe. But I assure you that very, VERY few of the people who complain of the Blackberry requiring a data plan do so because they keep it as a spare phone.

    You gotta draw the line somewhere. I am sorry if that sounds harsh.
    08-01-09 04:16 AM
  18. lastraid's Avatar
    You can argue and complain here all you want, it will get you nothing.

    Here is the scoop.

    EFFECTIVE 11/14/2008 - all VZW devices released that are smartphones, PDA's will require the minimum data plan of $29.99.

    If you DO NOT want data plan get any WINMO or PALM device released prior to that date. Blackberry is exluded.

    Now you flame, whine, scream, stomp your feet, flail your body on the ground. This will do nothing except let you vent.

    Now - it seams like the call and letter campaign, may or may not have helped with the opening of GPS on future BB devices and maybe even the WIFI issue, as rumored.
    08-01-09 07:40 AM
  19. jahoobob's Avatar
    Look at the "keypad" on a BB, excepting the Flip and the Storm, and you will see it was meant for typing as in email and internet but mostly the former, not for placing calls. Why anyone would spend the extra money on ANY smartphone and not want the data plan is beyond me.
    I believe I saw on the AT&T forum that that company is going to be requiring a data plan on BBs after the end of next month. I think that is on new contracts and at the end of current ones. This is apparently the trend.
    I say if you don't want the data plan buy another phone that doesn't require one or find a carrier that doesn't require one. If you bought a BB and thought you could activate it on VZW without a plan, you should have checked first. VZW offers a service that you are free to accept terms or not - your choice.
    Just because someone "feels" they should be able to do something doesn't mean they should get their way. They've probably been watching too much Oprah (she says, "go with your what you feel.")

    For those presenting the opposite of the OP (those who support the OPs sides should not read this):
    If someone expresses "feeling" they should get something they are basing their argument on emotions not logic so it is of no use for anyone to use logic of facts on that person.
    08-01-09 08:25 AM
  20. tsguy52's Avatar
    What I and others want is technically possible. That's the only issue - for the 100th time - carriers like VZW can offer voice only plans for a Blackberry on a technical level. Their failure to offer voice only is a contractual business obligation that isn't made known to the user. Furthermore, if you have a VZW Blackberry like the Curve and World Phone, you can't move them anywhere like you might be able to with other models. Hence you're locked into whatever the carrier decides, changing pricing knowing you can't switch without losing your investment..
    Sure it is technically possible and could be done. But guess what! It's against policy and no one can get around it unless it is a mistake (the reason this thread was started in the first place).

    Bottom line policy-wise it cannot be done. No argument. End of story.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    08-01-09 09:40 AM
  21. slinky#CB's Avatar
    EFFECTIVE 11/14/2008 - all VZW devices released that are smartphones, PDA's will require the minimum data plan of $29.99. If you DO NOT want data plan get any WINMO or PALM device released prior to that date. Blackberry is exluded. Now you flame, whine, scream, stomp your feet, flail your body on the ground. This will do nothing except let you vent.
    1. I bought my Curve prior to 11/14/08! So jump up and down, wave your hands in glee that you found this. I was bootstrapped to this "new policy" after my purchase. Do you have an article about a VZW plan that allows you to see the future?

    2. Source?

    3. At time of purchase this information needs to be made manifestly clear, not published somewhere at some time or in small print. Regardless, I bought my Curve before I was forced to accept paying more money than I'd need.

    Then in that case, I'd ask around my friends to see if anybody has a spare flip phone laying around. Either that or check Craigslist. Make sure to check the ESN with us before forking over any money for the latter. Yes, that's a serious suggestion.

    Data plans are required not just because "Rim Said So", but because without them, you'd have tons of mommies buying blackberries for all the "little billies" out there just so he can look good for his classmates, before blocking everything but voice and text on his $10 a month line. And that's not why we sell $400 devices for $100 on a 2-year. :P Yes, admittedly, data plans do filter out the people who would buy these expensive devices and never use them as intended. That's why we have Voyagers and Envs. Seem unfair? Maybe. But I assure you that very, VERY few of the people who complain of the Blackberry requiring a data plan do so because they keep it as a spare phone. You gotta draw the line somewhere. I am sorry if that sounds harsh.
    1. Thanks for the suggestion.

    2. No offense, your rationale is absurd and I'll guess women might take some offense with you. It makes no difference to Verizon whether a phone is a Blackberry any more than a Voyager. It's just an ESN number. As others stated, VZW did this because they can force more money out of you and nobody, not government, is stopping them.
    08-01-09 09:41 AM
  22. slinky#CB's Avatar
    I believe I saw on the AT&T forum that that company is going to be requiring a data plan on BBs after the end of next month. I think that is on new contracts and at the end of current ones. This is apparently the trend....

    I say if you don't want the data plan buy another phone that doesn't require one or find a carrier that doesn't require one. If you bought a BB and thought you could activate it on VZW without a plan, you should have checked first. VZW offers a service that you are free to accept terms or not - your choice.
    Just because someone "feels" they should be able to do something doesn't mean they should get their way. They've probably been watching too much Oprah (she says, "go with your what you feel.")
    1. The Trend - that's the problem I'm identifying. It's not a typical trend because we have only 4 wireless providers in the market and if they act together then there are no alternatives.

    2. Regarding the VZW phone... once more... I bought a Blackberry on VZW. It works fine. After 18 months or so I decided I wanted voice only. As per the OP, cannot do it. Why? Not because VZW can't do it but because they made a deal with RIM to charge customers for data, whether they like it or not. Now the phone I bought is either a brick or an expensive option.

    Yes... we should all be tolerant of each others positions. Hopefully we can start now. It's a much nicer place this way.
    08-01-09 09:46 AM
  23. TheScionicMan's Avatar
    There's a nice market for used BBs. You could always recoup some of your $$, unless you'd rather fight the windmills.

    SERIOUS OFFER: Will trade either of you an ATT Curve for your VZW Curve.
    08-01-09 09:50 AM
  24. tsguy52's Avatar
    What I'm, wondering is, as soon as they made the data mandatory, why didn't you leave? Why not just throw a fit with CSR and see if you can get out of the contract?
    Because he originally got the phone with data of course!

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    08-01-09 09:51 AM
  25. Doctorwho281's Avatar
    Had a customer call in today to set up email on her blackberry. She had an storm that got lost, activated some old gin phone (get it now) dummie phone, and when she got her replacement she activated (it don't know if it was online or *228 option 3) anyway i set up her bis account and all that get the new pin on her acc try sending service books and it fails, so we ota and soft reset... still nothing. I then glance at her account and see there is no data plan associated with it... So I think that maybe this was a freak accident or if you activate an old line it will take the BB data plan off but not add it on automatically when new BB is activated.
    I dunno just thought I should share and see if anyone could test this? I know that whenever we activate blackberries the data plan is immediately added.
    Whoa, you work for VZW? I feel sorry for you. I just left them. I couldnt take their weekly QA sessions and stupid monthly report crap. It was like working in a kindergarten full of kids. I missed back when Verizon was the former company. lol

    Anyhow, as a tech support rep, I remember that the new plans do require all bb devices now have a data plan that is included, either in the plan itself or as a feature. Either the PDA/Smartphone email & web for blackberry for 29.99 or the 44.99 Blackberry provisioning one that allows the blackberrys to connect to BES (business exchange servers/service), which is kinda dumb, but then again, why else would you buy a bb?

    The older plans we had from back in 2005-2006 you could put on a payasgo feature and/or put on the nationalaccess block feature which would prevent data usage on the phone, but all you would be able to do is use the device to make/receive calls and text. Thats it. A waste in my opinion of a good device at a large value.
    08-01-09 10:06 AM
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