03-29-11 02:06 PM
906 ... 2021222324 ...
tools
  1. DenverRalphy's Avatar
    This is EXACTLY the same thing Microslop got slapped for in the EU, antitrust, only giving users the option of their browser. There is no difference. So its time for "us" the consumers to show Microslop and Verizho who the boss is
    That's not entirely accurate. Microsoft never closed off the option to use other browsers. In the US Microsoft was sued because they gave OEMs monetary incentive to not bundle other browsers from within their install media, gambling that the common user would be too lazy, or oblivious to the fact that you could download and install any browser you wished. And in Europe they were forced to provide a version of windows sans IE so that the consumer could choose which version they wanted (despite the point that the majority still purchases the version with IE pre-installed).
    12-18-09 05:34 PM
  2. Joelist's Avatar
    I did several searches trying to find any primary source references to an exclusive Bing-VZW deal. There are none.

    All you get is hysterical people ranting or if it is an article they all cross reference each other, with most of them pointing to a blog as the source. So I would say the first thing that needs to happen is get Verizon to make a public, OFFICIAL statement on exactly what is happening. That is because the only references I could find to the MS-VZW deal were to providing Bing access on all the mobiles, no mention at all of removing others.

    Also, sorry but there is absolutely no antitrust or FTC issue here even if they have an exclusive deal (which right now there is no official evidence that they do). Google is the majority market share player in the market not Bing. To be guilty of monopolistic behavior you have to be a monopolist, and MS is not a monopoly in the world of internet search, nor in smartphone OSes or any other relevant market.

    So instead of hyperventilating and potentially looking EXTREMELY foolish if the removal of other providers turns out to be a mistake (as in improperly built address books), approach this logically and with a cool head. Press VZW to make a public official statement on exactly what they are doing.
    12-18-09 05:44 PM
  3. Sborden70's Avatar
    Thanks for your opinion, the only EXTREMELY foolish thing here is for us the consumers to allow these A hole businesses to continue thinking they run the place. No Consumers=No business.

    If they screwed up and pushed out the books by mistake them fine so be it, everyone screws up. But forcing consumers to exclusively use a certain search engine , and "NOT" allowing a user to choose "IS" an antitrust lawsuit.

    As for the Verizon Bing deal, i did a "Google" search and found lots of information:
    Verizon Bings BlackBerry Storm and Other BlackBerry Devices (Storm2): Solutions Offered - WIRELESS AND MOBILE NEWS

    Verizon making Bing only search option?
    Verizon Drops Google from BlackBerry Browser Search Tool (Phone Scoop)
    Last edited by Sborden70; 12-18-09 at 06:02 PM.
    12-18-09 05:55 PM
  4. DenverRalphy's Avatar
    If it indeed was a mistake, VZW would have been lightning quick to make a loud public statement assuring their customers that it was a mistake and it'd be fixed.
    12-18-09 06:02 PM
  5. Sborden70's Avatar
    Its definately NOT a mistake:

    Quote from Website boygeniusreport.com

    UPDATE: Verizon Wireless told us, “The default to our BlackBerry devices is now bing!” and that if you’d like to use another search provider, you can “go to web – bookmark, make favorite, download. Also – you can to Appworld and download Google quicksearch client for free and move it from the Downloads folder to have a link on the home screen.”
    12-18-09 06:05 PM
  6. DenverRalphy's Avatar
    To be guilty of monopolistic behavior you have to be a monopolist.. <snip>.
    That is 100% untrue. Monopolies are usually the target of anti-trust suits because they more commonly have the resources to support anti competitive practices, however that doesn't give them the monopoly (ironic huh?) on being guilty of antitrust.
    12-18-09 06:12 PM
  7. adambigge's Avatar
    Really? So you developed the software not RIM or VZW, then yes you should be able to change the search browser back to Google. I am sure that would be easy for a programmer of your stature. Because last I heard the OS was proprietary.
    I really don't understand the animosity you are displaying to others here. I never insinuated that I was a programmer of any kind. You seem to be attempting to troll just to aggravate people. Is this the way you treat VZW customers when they have problems? Yikes.

    You seem to think that the entity that creates a given piece of software has the right to remove/withdraw/alter it (including all versions installed on the privately owned devices of end users) at any time in the future at the sole discretion of the corporate body without any care for the person who paid for its use. But when a person pays for a piece of software, they own it insomuch that they may use it as it was purchased for as long as they wish without being forced to use additional features or have features removed arbitrarily.

    My point was that when you buy a device that comes with an operating system (SOFTWARE) you are also buying the software. You are not buying rights to distribute or sell it in any way. That would violate copyright and patent law. But you are paying for the right to use it as you see fit within legal limits. How would you like it if Microsoft decided to use the remote assistance application that is in all windows versions to get into your home PC and remove features from whatever version of Windows that came pre-installed on it. And then cited some obscure line way down in the EULA that you clicked "Accept" on back when purchased the machine. You paid for the machine that the software came on. Therefore you paid for the license to use the software as you see fit and remain unmolested by the original vendor as long as you used the software within the license requirements. That is why software updates from every other software company are OPTIONAL. IE... You choose whether to download and install them or not.

    Now you can go on trying to insult my intelligence. That's fine. I have taken insults from meaner, nastier, and much more dangerous people than you. But maybe instead of trying to be snide and insulting you could contribute something meaningful to this conversation rather than simply saying "you signed a contract! Quit crying!" Because that defense really doesn't show anything other than your employer doesn't have any legal ground to stand on. Just because somebody put it in a contract, that doesn't make it legal. It would behoove you to learn that, my friend.
    12-18-09 06:23 PM
  8. TheWitness's Avatar
    I did several searches trying to find any primary source references to an exclusive Bing-VZW deal. There are none.

    All you get is hysterical people ranting or if it is an article they all cross reference each other, with most of them pointing to a blog as the source. So I would say the first thing that needs to happen is get Verizon to make a public, OFFICIAL statement on exactly what is happening. That is because the only references I could find to the MS-VZW deal were to providing Bing access on all the mobiles, no mention at all of removing others.

    Also, sorry but there is absolutely no antitrust or FTC issue here even if they have an exclusive deal (which right now there is no official evidence that they do). Google is the majority market share player in the market not Bing. To be guilty of monopolistic behavior you have to be a monopolist, and MS is not a monopoly in the world of internet search, nor in smartphone OSes or any other relevant market.

    So instead of hyperventilating and potentially looking EXTREMELY foolish if the removal of other providers turns out to be a mistake (as in improperly built address books), approach this logically and with a cool head. Press VZW to make a public official statement on exactly what they are doing.
    Google does not lie. Try these search terms

    microsoft bing google verizon "5 year"
    TheWitness
    12-18-09 06:44 PM
  9. TheWitness's Avatar
    Thanks for your opinion, the only EXTREMELY foolish thing here is for us the consumers to allow these A hole businesses to continue thinking they run the place. No Consumers=No business.

    If they screwed up and pushed out the books by mistake them fine so be it, everyone screws up. But forcing consumers to exclusively use a certain search engine , and "NOT" allowing a user to choose "IS" an antitrust lawsuit.

    As for the Verizon Bing deal, i did a "Google" search and found lots of information:
    Verizon Bings BlackBerry Storm and Other BlackBerry Devices (Storm2): Solutions Offered - WIRELESS AND MOBILE NEWS

    Verizon making Bing only search option?
    Verizon Drops Google from BlackBerry Browser Search Tool (Phone Scoop)
    My guess is that he/she used Bing to search for articles and that's why he/she could not find references

    TheWitness
    12-18-09 06:46 PM
  10. jburris020's Avatar
    Let me preface this response by sayin... Well apparently it's a big deal to VZW and Microsoft. So why are ya tryin to downplay it?

    Now to respond to the meat of your post...

    Actually YES the normal consumer indeed does browse on the web from their device on a daily basis (if not several times a day). It's a core component of the Blackberry. If while web browsing or when an idea sparks in my head and I reach for my BB and I want to search for something (happens all the time), I want to use the search engine of MY choice. While in my browser I am one click away from the quicksearch, so why would somebody decide to add extra steps to that? Sure, one could argue that it's a petty inconvenience, yet that same argument conveniently neglects that somebody is profiting over providing me with that inconvenience. The quicksearch on my phone is (well was until now) used all the time, several times a day. Now it's something that will not ever be used and I'm missing it already.

    Next is why one person chooses one search engine over another. Actually this is a moot point. It may be that I base it solely on performance, or it may be that I choose not to support a company who's business practices show a shady pattern, or it may be because I like the name better. Who really cares? But to appease the masses, I will freely say that I advertise on google, as well I use a lot of Google products, and prefer to support google.

    So sometime in the past I purchased a product that allowed me to use google as I see fit. Now with the recent changes, sure I can still use Google, however it is less convenient. That inconvenience comes from somebody else exercising overly aggressive practices to make a few bucks (well a lot more than a few bucks).

    You ask "So what is different than going to the web and looking up crackberry, and going to google.com to perform a search?" The difference is now I have to take extra steps to perform what used to be done in one simple step. As well I choose not to support Microsoft in this venture.

    It is quite sane and reasonable to change to a different service, simply because I prefer not to conduct business with a company who supports somebody I choose not to support.

    And to whoever keeps spewing the ABM mentality (forgot who posted it), I think you're the one with a kneejerk reaction in your effort to defend Microsoft. How you're blind to the point that in this situation Microsoft is once again reverting to it's questionable tactics, is really beyond me. It's not like people are sayin "Eew! Microsoft pew pew!" In this instance it's people reacting to Microsoft for once again practicing what gave them a bad reputation to begin with.
    I can see your point, but if you download the quick search application then your back in business with google yet again, so I'm still not really seeing the point if other options are present. Just because one door closes doesn't mean another isn't opened. If you were driving to work one morning and your normal quickest route was blocked off due to construction would you quit your job? Now what if the way you took every day ended up with a lot built on what used to be a road way, you would probably find the best viable option to get to work....there are applications that are available to keep it just a simple, and infact it's probably more simple and faster..
    12-18-09 06:56 PM
  11. Super_Mario's Avatar
    I really don't understand the animosity you are displaying to others here. I never insinuated that I was a programmer of any kind. You seem to be attempting to troll just to aggravate people. Is this the way you treat VZW customers when they have problems? Yikes.

    You seem to think that the entity that creates a given piece of software has the right to remove/withdraw/alter it (including all versions installed on the privately owned devices of end users) at any time in the future at the sole discretion of the corporate body without any care for the person who paid for its use. But when a person pays for a piece of software, they own it insomuch that they may use it as it was purchased for as long as they wish without being forced to use additional features or have features removed arbitrarily.

    My point was that when you buy a device that comes with an operating system (SOFTWARE) you are also buying the software. You are not buying rights to distribute or sell it in any way. That would violate copyright and patent law. But you are paying for the right to use it as you see fit within legal limits. How would you like it if Microsoft decided to use the remote assistance application that is in all windows versions to get into your home PC and remove features from whatever version of Windows that came pre-installed on it. And then cited some obscure line way down in the EULA that you clicked "Accept" on back when purchased the machine. You paid for the machine that the software came on. Therefore you paid for the license to use the software as you see fit and remain unmolested by the original vendor as long as you used the software within the license requirements. That is why software updates from every other software company are OPTIONAL. IE... You choose whether to download and install them or not.

    Now you can go on trying to insult my intelligence. That's fine. I have taken insults from meaner, nastier, and much more dangerous people than you. But maybe instead of trying to be snide and insulting you could contribute something meaningful to this conversation rather than simply saying "you signed a contract! Quit crying!" Because that defense really doesn't show anything other than your employer doesn't have any legal ground to stand on. Just because somebody put it in a contract, that doesn't make it legal. It would behoove you to learn that, my friend.
    I have no idea how my post was displaying animosity. But what can I expect from a person so upset about a Search browser to not be sensitive in real life. Stop being a drama queen.
    12-18-09 07:15 PM
  12. adambigge's Avatar
    You know very well that many of your posts are confrontational and antagonistic in regards to this subject. Referring to others as "whiny", and "drama queens", and "cry babies". That, scooter, is animosity.

    I am not upset about a search browser. I am upset about a company removing functionality from a piece of technology that I own without asking my permission. I can easily (and already have) compensate for what they wrongfully took away. But I shouldn't HAVE to. I should get what I initially paid for. No more, no less.

    That isn't being a drama queen. That is being vigilant in regards to my rights as a consumer. Yes we have rights. You may be jaded from having to deal with "whiners" all day but hey, it is a fact. That is why there are government agencies set up to safeguard our rights from overbearing businesses. If you don't like working in the Customer Service industry I suggest you man up and pick another job. You just might be a happier person

    But once again, you use sarcasm and insults. No substance. Not one inkling of a contribution to the subject at hand.
    12-18-09 07:29 PM
  13. SevereDeceit's Avatar
    Guys, it happened, I know people are upset, that's fine. Arguing and insulting does not solve the problem, we will have to wait and see what happens, that's all we can do...
    12-18-09 07:36 PM
  14. paimon.soror's Avatar
    Ok heres a plan, lets leave the personal attacks alone. For what its worth, no one in this forum is the decision maker for verizon. To be honest i dont give a rats *** what any Verizon peons/associates tell me about what i committed to or why verizon did this and im sure they dont care about what "some whining customer" has to say. This thread is to express our dissatisfaction on what happened. At this rate we are going to get this thread closed. So every one needs to chill the f* out and realize that whatever i say doesn't influence a damn person on this thread, and whatever person xyz says doesn't influence me. Carry on.
    12-18-09 07:36 PM
  15. Super_Mario's Avatar
    You know very well that many of your posts are confrontational and antagonistic in regards to this subject. Referring to others as "whiny", and "drama queens", and "cry babies". That, scooter, is animosity.

    I am not upset about a search browser. I am upset about a company removing functionality from a piece of technology that I own without asking my permission. I can easily (and already have) compensate for what they wrongfully took away. But I shouldn't HAVE to. I should get what I initially paid for. No more, no less.

    That isn't being a drama queen. That is being vigilant in regards to my rights as a consumer. Yes we have rights. You may be jaded from having to deal with "whiners" all day but hey, it is a fact. That is why there are government agencies set up to safeguard our rights from overbearing businesses. If you don't like working in the Customer Service industry I suggest you man up and pick another job. You just might be a happier person

    But once again, you use sarcasm and insults. No substance. Not one inkling of a contribution to the subject at hand.
    I can understand being upset about losing the control of your search bar, I have a Tour so I haven't received the push yet but if you want to twist what I say so it's all about you, then please go ahead. But I recommend taking up a hobby where your time is better spent.
    I like working in Customer Service and Tech Support, because contrary to your belief, I do enjoy helping people. Lucky for me not all customers are bad and the ones that are, congregate here and I can speak more freely.
    12-18-09 07:37 PM
  16. Webcredible's Avatar
    Bing sucks big time. I am really unhappy and I don't like that Verizon didn't even ask for our preference. They DID NOT give us an option and just made the change. If they care so much about profits, why don't they do everything in their power to bring in the iPhone. I am not saying it's the best phone but there would be quite a number of people that would upgrade.

    There is a reason why I don't sign up for a contract through Verizon b/c I constantly have one foot out the door. This is just enough for me to give them the shaft and leave. I have been a Verizon customer for 10 years, but this shh is what makes me want leave.
    12-18-09 07:44 PM
  17. grayzweb's Avatar
    I sent an email to VZW Enter your location

    I sent an email to Bing. Go to bing.com and lower right side is a link called "tell us what you think" So I did

    I feel a little better now, just a little
    12-18-09 07:51 PM
  18. nextyear's Avatar
    Bing sucks big time. I am really unhappy and I don't like that Verizon didn't even ask for our preference. They DID NOT give us an option and just made the change. If they care so much about profits, why don't they do everything in their power to bring in the iPhone. I am not saying it's the best phone but there would be quite a number of people that would upgrade.

    There is a reason why I don't sign up for a contract through Verizon b/c I constantly have one foot out the door. This is just enough for me to give them the shaft and leave. I have been a Verizon customer for 10 years, but this shh is what makes me want leave.
    i am unhappy also but i was told a few pages back that verizon can do what ever they want cause its in the contract,no options for us
    12-18-09 08:04 PM
  19. ppbb's Avatar
    +1

    I have all those options on my Browser... No bing... I don't even like Bing... As soon as Verizon pushed the Bing Icon, I hid it, lol...
    +1

    i moved all those ridiculous Verizon paid apps into a folder and hid them.
    12-18-09 08:17 PM
  20. Joelist's Avatar
    My guess is that he/she used Bing to search for articles and that's why he/she could not find references

    TheWitness
    I found all of those, and read them. None of them are official VZW announcments of a deal making Bing the exclusive provider in the BB Browser. A couple have a purported email from someone at VZW, but that is not official word.

    And to another post, yes you have to have a monopoly in the market in question to be guilty of monopolistic behavior. That is why Apple can play all sorts of tricks of this nature on Macs with no legal issues - it is not a monopoly in the PC market. Plus you can be quite sure that even if there is an exclusive agreement they got legal clearance first.

    All I said was people need to settle down and handle this logically, and that the first logical step is getting an official statement out of Verizon. Until you have that (and official statement means an official statement from Verizon for the press not someone's anecdote) there really is no logical direction to go in. Screaming and yelling in anger at everyone accomplishes nothing.
    12-18-09 08:21 PM
  21. DenverRalphy's Avatar
    I can see your point, but if you download the quick search application then your back in business with google yet again, so I'm still not really seeing the point if other options are present.
    Yes there is a point... now you're saying that I should install another program, which eats up space and resources on my device, just to enter search terms then load up my browser anyway? I don't want 2 apps to do the job of one.

    Just because one door closes doesn't mean another isn't opened.
    That analogy is flawed, because the new door requires a longer route, thus less effective.

    If you were driving to work one morning and your normal quickest route was blocked off due to construction would you quit your job? Now what if the way you took every day ended up with a lot built on what used to be a road way, you would probably find the best viable option to get to work....
    That analogy would work only if my job was responsible for the road-work to begin with. And if that were the case, I would expect my job to accomodate me having to make a change.

    There are applications that are available to keep it just a simple, and infact it's probably more simple and faster..
    No, as I explained above... additional applications to complete the task of one, do nothing but consume more resources from my device, adds an inconvenience because now there are added steps, and all just because somebody wants to make a buck.
    12-18-09 08:21 PM
  22. jburris020's Avatar
    Hopefully my posts here haven't been one that can be seen as argumentative at all, I'm just trying to see why people would be willing to leave a carrier do to how the software on a phone.
    12-18-09 08:22 PM
  23. jburris020's Avatar

    No, as I explained above... additional applications to complete the task of one, do nothing but consume more resources from my device, adds an inconvenience because now there are added steps, and all just because somebody wants to make a buck.

    I can see where your coming from, however if you were an owner of a business and someone offered you a whole bunch of money to make one change to your product would you actually say no?

    It is still a business after all and not all businesses can please every person that they have come through their door, or that buy their product in every situation. But I am beginning to understand the reasoning behind this all.
    12-18-09 08:24 PM
  24. DenverRalphy's Avatar
    I can see where your coming from, however if you were an owner of a business and someone offered you a whole bunch of money to make one change to your product would you actually say no?

    It is still a business after all and not all businesses can please every person that they have come through their door, or that buy their product in every situation. But I am beginning to understand the reasoning behind this all.
    Aaah, but there's the genius behind the concept of Supply and Demand, and therein lies the rub.

    If a company makes a decision to make fast money, they've got to be careful that decision doesn't reduce the demand for their particular product. Sometimes you've got to turn down the fast money in deference to makin a whole lotta slow money.
    12-18-09 08:32 PM
  25. jburris020's Avatar
    Aaah, but there's the genius behind the concept of Supply and Demand, and therein lies the rub.

    If a company makes a decision to make fast money, they've got to be careful that decision doesn't reduce the demand for their particular product. Sometimes you've got to turn down the fast money in deference to makin a whole lotta slow money.
    Very true, and by no means (to the other readers) have my posts been intended to be argumentative.
    12-18-09 08:35 PM
906 ... 2021222324 ...
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD