09-19-09 12:27 AM
46 12
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  1. blue_and_bold's Avatar
    09-17-09 02:20 PM
  2. Afangrywarrior's Avatar
    Also on Wired.com, sent it to a few directors today.

    Why You Can’t Get a Good Phone With Verizon | Gadget Lab | Wired.com

    Its the pink elephant at Verizon, we all know it but keep pushing the network..
    09-17-09 02:22 PM
  3. IDsweetcheeks's Avatar


    hear hear... although I looove my curve..
    09-17-09 02:35 PM
  4. AaronWasHere's Avatar


    hear hear... although I looove my curve..
    curve ftw
    09-17-09 03:19 PM
  5. blue_and_bold's Avatar
    Curve is like years old now guys...
    09-17-09 03:21 PM
  6. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    Why Verizon's phones aren't more exciting - CNN.com

    Cleaned up the URL to make it BlackBerry friendly.

    From that article: "the staid...BlackBerry Tour"

    Even the politically handicapped understand.

    VZW has such a boring smartphone lineup for a few reasons.

    1) Market. Regardless of pros/cons of either technology, GSM does have many more potential customers. My problem with that is how many Ethiopians are going to be in the market for a smartphone?

    2) Ruffled feathers. VZW & Google don't like each other. No big push for Android by VZW & no big push to sell Android phones to VZW.

    3) Staid & safe. VZW is staid & safe. So is RIM. RIM wasn't happy that some carriers wouldn't highlight their devices & found a willing sucker in VZW. To get there, RIM offers substantial discounts to VZW that it doesn't offer other carriers. To help subsidize those discounts, RIM started cutting corners in quality. The RIM platform isn't designed to be scalable, so it will forever lag behind the innovations available on other platforms. VZW knows what it is getting years in advance & the other devices continue to wow people.

    LTE promises to change a lot of the above, with Nokia & Samsung gearing up for it & LG getting ready to make deep leaps into the smartphone fray. The one which will be left behind will be the players like RIM, who have been reaping the benefits of BOGOs & marketing. But the reality is that VZW has been playing too many cards at the RIM table. BlackBerry is the technology of yesterday. Apple & Palm are the technologies of today. WM, if MS gets its act together, will join a future Android, a new Linux-based Samsung OS & the also Linux-based Maemo as the OS of tomorrow. Apple will continue to evolve & BlackBerry will keep getting cheaper - the Blue-Light Special of smartphones.

    If you want good, capable technology, be flexible - don't hold on too tight to those BlackBerrys, as the smartphone world will pass you by... yesterday.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    09-17-09 05:01 PM
  7. i7guy's Avatar
    Why Verizon's phones aren't more exciting - CNN.com

    Cleaned up the URL to make it BlackBerry friendly.

    From that article: "the staid...BlackBerry Tour"

    Even the politically handicapped understand.

    VZW has such a boring smartphone lineup for a few reasons.

    1) Market. Regardless of pros/cons of either technology, GSM does have many more potential customers. My problem with that is how many Ethiopians are going to be in the market for a smartphone?

    2) Ruffled feathers. VZW & Google don't like each other. No big push for Android by VZW & no big push to sell Android phones to VZW.

    3) Staid & safe. VZW is staid & safe. So is RIM. RIM wasn't happy that some carriers wouldn't highlight their devices & found a willing sucker in VZW. To get there, RIM offers substantial discounts to VZW that it doesn't offer other carriers. To help subsidize those discounts, RIM started cutting corners in quality. The RIM platform isn't designed to be scalable, so it will forever lag behind the innovations available on other platforms. VZW knows what it is getting years in advance & the other devices continue to wow people.

    LTE promises to change a lot of the above, with Nokia & Samsung gearing up for it & LG getting ready to make deep leaps into the smartphone fray. The one which will be left behind will be the players like RIM, who have been reaping the benefits of BOGOs & marketing. But the reality is that VZW has been playing too many cards at the RIM table. BlackBerry is the technology of yesterday. Apple & Palm are the technologies of today. WM, if MS gets its act together, will join a future Android, a new Linux-based Samsung OS & the also Linux-based Maemo as the OS of tomorrow. Apple will continue to evolve & BlackBerry will keep getting cheaper - the Blue-Light Special of smartphones.

    If you want good, capable technology, be flexible - don't hold on too tight to those BlackBerrys, as the smartphone world will pass you by... yesterday.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    As soon as another phone is up to the security standards of a Blackberry and I can get to my companies email services in a manner approved by the IT dept., I'm there. Until then the smartphone world can pass me by. About the only thing I'm missing on my Tour, and I think there is an app released, is an MSTSC equivalent. RIM is the fastest, hottest technology company. They were smart about how they got there and are not stupid enough to fall down on their faces. Hey look, I know people bitten by the Honda tranny thing a few years ago and they still buy Hondas.
    09-17-09 06:54 PM
  8. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    They were smart only in dumping millions of BOGOs through VZW.

    As far as connecting to your company's email system, that is a restriction set by your employer. I have Mopar & Ford guys forced to drive my GM truck fleet.

    The only thing you gain by connecting through your company's servers is the email. You lose privacy, as they can see everything you do on your phone. They can add restrictions, change software and more.

    I know a lot of people have lost their jobs because of a single message sent on a company-connected BlackBerry. I own my company & still won't have my personal lines running through it.

    So you're using BlackBerry at your own peril.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    09-17-09 08:53 PM
  9. Darthkuriboh's Avatar
    Twins,

    Not intending to sound rude, but if you hate Berries so much why post on a berry board?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    09-17-09 09:18 PM
  10. sjsjr's Avatar
    This part of the forum is the Verizon section, not the Verizon Black Berry section. There are many regular contributors that don't use RIM products at the present time. Being honest about the downfalls of a BB is not hate, it is the truth. I am willing to bet, after reading many of Twins posts that he would point out the flaws in any device just so people would know what they are getting into when buying them. I don't intend to buy another BB when some of the other devices come out on the VZW network because they are becoming more and more flawed and not better.
    09-17-09 09:28 PM
  11. Darthkuriboh's Avatar
    I'll stick with Blackberry, thanks. Windoze anything ticks me off and palm is crap.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    09-17-09 09:34 PM
  12. sjsjr's Avatar
    Believe me if RIM made a BB that was as reliable as my Curve (which I love) but better then anything they have planned I would never switch but when i use my upgrade I intend to do that. Upgrade. The planned products to be released from RIM for VZW are faster sure but it is the same boring OS just prettied up and while the hardware is faster it is not much better. I will try something else for a while and I can always switch back if I don't like another type of device.
    09-17-09 09:40 PM
  13. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    Twins,

    Not intending to sound rude, but if you hate Berries so much why post on a berry board?
    Why is it about once a week, I am asked this question?

    Look at the ownership of this site. Look at the other sites owned by SMARTPHONE Experts. I have accounts on each of them. I will say that the level of objectivity, common sense & reason is higher on all of them, sans iphoneblog, than it is here.

    Now look at the devices they review on the front portal. Are they all BlackBerry?

    We have iPhone forums, non-BlackBerry forums & more.

    Does the truth of my comments make the BlackBerry faithful uncomfortable? I mentioned several devices. You chose one to pick on. Your very comments singling WM out of my comments is telling. What is more telling is that you're admitting an inability to use a WM device. Then mentioning the Pre, a device that runs circles around ANY BlackBerry cements my thoughts on the reaction.

    Even the real detractors say WM's biggest negative is its "clunky" feel and non-intuitive operation - things I might agree with. Those are the same shots Mac users point to in Windows. Yet custom UIs & even built-in customization tools fix nearly all of the criticisms.

    The Palm Pre had issues at rollout - all fixed with major corrections by Palm. Name me one hardware correction RIM made to Storm in a year on the market.

    I look at it this way. Is a 1964 Ferrari junk, just because you don't know how to drive it? Unless you can handle a non-synchro manual transmission, you can't drive it. There were also millions afraid to let go of the AOL handholding. Were you one of those too?

    Just because you don't know how to operate & optimize a WM device does not make it a bad device.

    Speaking the truth from a knowledgeable & objective point of view should never be out of style, regardless of the venue.

    And don't forget - I have more working BlackBerry devices in my phone case right this moment (6) than you've probably owned. That includes not one, but two that you can't get yet.

    And, with all the devices I have in my case (do NOT use my case as a pillow unless you want brain cancer), if I were to select one device to live with, none of the BlackBerrys in there would rate in the top five.

    You can hammer away at my motives all you want - the truth doesn't change. The only reason BlackBerry is popular is because of marketing, a soon-to-pass fad & VZW dumping them through BOGOs.

    Three years ago when they were $400-$500, only businesses wanted BlackBerry. Now every kid in town wants one because they are cheaper than the latest iPod - but along with being cheaper, they are less capable than those iPods. In fact, there isn't much that a Tour can do that an 8830 can't. Or even an old 7XXX BlackBerry.

    If you like BlackBerry, fine - like it. I will even assist in its operation. I can even help people (in person) make the ultimate BlackBerry by loading Linux on it. Just don't try to claim it is the best out there, because it isn't, anymore than this is a site for BlackBerrys only.

    I post here because it is the VZW forums. I happen to like VZW. It is inconvenient that it also happens to be CrackBerry - but in reality, most of the people who aspire to owning a BlackBerry or think BlackBerry is anywhere close to being the best or the most capable, might as well be on crack.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    09-17-09 10:08 PM
  14. derpudel's Avatar
    I signed onto this forum a few months ago to learn. I bought my first BB almost a year ago, and only chose it because it allowed me to make the fonts big enough for me to see them. I did not like what other smartphones Alltel had at the time. Before my BB, I had used a Moto Q, and altho it was ok, it started having some issues and I didn't know enough to fix them.

    I have learned sooo much from the good people on this forum. My upgrade is now and the Verizon merger is coming, so I have been doing tons of research into various phones. At first, I was sure I wanted the Storm 2, but after really looking at other OS and phones, I realized that WM offered me more of what I wanted in a phone and features. Espeically, now that I know about shells and other UI's to layer.

    I am not an insider, who knows about corporate decisions and the players who are slugging it out in the boardrooms. What I do know is that RIM has had two phones not meet up with the quality I used to hear came from that company. In the touchscreen arena, they are far behind, as far as I'm concerned with the other major companies. The AMOLED screen, being one example. As a consumer, I need clarity and customization, to be able to easily see, read and text from a phone, as well as hear the voice clearly. A nice camera is also a plus for me. I am not a corporate user, nor do I need extra security in a phone. So, my next phone will not be a BB, but a WM device.

    In no way do I want people not to express themselves freely on this forum. I depend upon it.
    09-17-09 10:37 PM
  15. vatothe0's Avatar
    The only thing you gain by connecting through your company's servers is the email. You lose privacy, as they can see everything you do on your phone. They can add restrictions, change software and more.
    This is exactly why businesses want them though. The whole point is to be able to control your assets.

    Would you want your employees to go out joy riding in your company vehicles? Do some doughnuts and burnouts then race a highschool kid on the freeway... They easily could but wouldn't it be nice to have a way to put a wholesale stop to that? That's the major attraction of Blackberries for business that I've seen. WM doesn't offer that, Palm doesn't offer that, Apple doesn't offer that, Android doesn't offer that.

    What if you need some help with your deployment of 25,000 Palm Pre phones? Who knows but if you have RIM you can get a service contract that will put a RIM employee at your location for 40 hours a week. The RIM service plans are unbelievable (both in price and service).

    The devices RIM has offered recently have been somewhat lacking in quality, but the service they provide is still the gold standard.
    09-17-09 10:42 PM
  16. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    This is exactly why businesses want them though. The whole point is to be able to control your assets. .
    I understand that & you know from reading my words that I understand that.

    But that doesn't explain every 7-11 clerk who wants to fight to the end over BlackBerry's status in the world.

    I don't hold an opinion on smartphones based on emotion or on what I've read. If you're a medium-to-large company, then BlackBerry is one of the choices at the top of your list. But if you're someone who wants the best personal device out there, it shouldn't even be in consideration. But VZW pushes BlackBerry as a premium solution for everyone because they don't have an iPhone, a Symbian device, an Android or a Pre. HTC isn't willing to play the BOGO parade and Samsung isn't out with the latest.

    Its a phone, guys - not a religion.

    And I have to call my doctor - after re-reading my latest round of posts, it is clear to me that my new meds are putting me on serious edge. I guess I should listen to my lady a bit more.

    Apologies to those whom I may have bitten heads off of today.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    09-17-09 11:13 PM
  17. i7guy's Avatar
    They were smart only in dumping millions of BOGOs through VZW.

    As far as connecting to your company's email system, that is a restriction set by your employer. I have Mopar & Ford guys forced to drive my GM truck fleet.

    The only thing you gain by connecting through your company's servers is the email. (Yes, timely delivery of business email is essential) You lose privacy, as they can see everything you do on your phone. (So what? They're going to see I frequent this site? My personal appointments are on the calendar and company policy is email, voicemail can be monitored.) They can add restrictions, change software and more. (They don't, I know exactly what the IT policy is.)

    I know a lot of people have lost their jobs because of a single message sent on a company-connected BlackBerry. (That's a strawman statement) I own my company & still won't have my personal lines running through it. (You certainly are entitled to run your company the way you want)

    So you're using BlackBerry at your own peril. (Yep, I think I'll take the risk. Considering every senior manager, client facing associate and a large percentage of the remainder of the company use them, I'm not too worried, I took of my tin foil hat years ago.)

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    See above for response.
    Last edited by i7guy; 09-17-09 at 11:43 PM.
    09-17-09 11:39 PM
  18. Johnly's Avatar
    I think WiReD doesn't do that good of a job. You can purchase their articles for a dime. I read all of that and not one mention of customer service? Come on WiReD, we can see your biased-ship in your work. That is a C article in it's best day. Yay Verizon for siding with the consumer and dropping those phone prices! I can't believe someone would think that is a bad thing for Verizon. Oh well, there are a centillion articles on the web that suck.
    09-17-09 11:53 PM
  19. i7guy's Avatar
    Why is it about once a week, I am asked this question?

    Look at the ownership of this site. Look at the other sites owned by SMARTPHONE Experts. I have accounts on each of them. I will say that the level of objectivity, common sense & reason is higher on all of them, sans iphoneblog, than it is here.

    snip....
    Well I happen to disagree with most everything you said. I do agree the vast variety of phones serve different market segments. However, I have been researching business devices for over two years. (Yeah I waited that long after my NE2). WM devices while kind of nice and supported by my company, did not wow me, although some of the Samsung non VZW models are kind of nice. iPhone is a joke and will not be supported until they beef up the security. That left Blackberry. Is it the most capable device? Depends on what you use it for. Interesting the president uses a BBerry, not iphone, with triple DES encryption on it. I tell you though, I wish I had the marketing savvy of RIM. There is nothing wrong with smart marketing combined with a great device. RIM is not the only player, but what they do, they do very well.

    Final note, the trackball issue. That's why these phones have warranties. I could care less the Tour had a bad batch of phones with defective trackballs. Doesn't mean I'm condeming RIM. It's a great phone. Now bring on wifi.
    09-17-09 11:59 PM
  20. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    The last vestige of a desperate scoundrel, when losing an argument, is to change the premise of the discussion, then throw in ad-hominem remarks.

    You, Mr. i7guy, have done both.

    Do you use Google? If you do, you're not concerned about security. Considering most here use Google, the reasonable soul can assume most here don't either.

    Take away the BOGOs & BlackBerry would not be selling in the numbers it does. Put phones like iPhone & several Nokias on VZW, and the numbers would fall further.

    It used to be BlackBerry usage was predominantly for business. Now its market breakdown is mainly consumer. Why? Because many consumers think it is great - but then many of those consumers get upset over things BlackBerry cannot do. But hey, they were initially wowed because their new BlackBerry could outdo their old Razr.

    Go back & read the article. It mentions 25% of iPhone users came from other carriers - an admirable figure. What is more telling is that a greater percentage of iPhone owners came from BlackBerry.

    Another telling thing is that worldwide, BlackBerry doesn't come close to being the number one platform.

    But you just go ahead with your attempts at changing the premise of the discussion, trying to read things I didn't write & tossing in the ad-hominems. We know where you're coming from.

    And next time you mention that the POTUS uses a BlackBerry, make sure you also mention that Hugo Chavez picked up one too.
    09-18-09 08:59 AM
  21. IDsweetcheeks's Avatar
    I understand that & you know from reading my words that I understand that.

    But that doesn't explain every 7-11 clerk who wants to fight to the end over BlackBerry's status in the world.

    I don't hold an opinion on smartphones based on emotion or on what I've read. If you're a medium-to-large company, then BlackBerry is one of the choices at the top of your list. But if you're someone who wants the best personal device out there, it shouldn't even be in consideration. But VZW pushes BlackBerry as a premium solution for everyone because they don't have an iPhone, a Symbian device, an Android or a Pre. HTC isn't willing to play the BOGO parade and Samsung isn't out with the latest.

    Its a phone, guys - not a religion.

    And I have to call my doctor - after re-reading my latest round of posts, it is clear to me that my new meds are putting me on serious edge. I guess I should listen to my lady a bit more.
    Apologies to those whom I may have bitten heads off of today.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    I got some ultram, flexeril, somas and norcos if you needs to relax! LOL
    09-18-09 09:16 AM
  22. i7guy's Avatar
    The last vestige of a desperate scoundrel, when losing an argument, is to change the premise of the discussion, then throw in ad-hominem remarks.

    You, Mr. i7guy, have done both.

    Do you use Google? If you do, you're not concerned about security. Considering most here use Google, the reasonable soul can assume most here don't either.

    Take away the BOGOs & BlackBerry would not be selling in the numbers it does. Put phones like iPhone & several Nokias on VZW, and the numbers would fall further.

    It used to be BlackBerry usage was predominantly for business. Now its market breakdown is mainly consumer. Why? Because many consumers think it is great - but then many of those consumers get upset over things BlackBerry cannot do. But hey, they were initially wowed because their new BlackBerry could outdo their old Razr.

    Go back & read the article. It mentions 25% of iPhone users came from other carriers - an admirable figure. What is more telling is that a greater percentage of iPhone owners came from BlackBerry.

    Another telling thing is that worldwide, BlackBerry doesn't come close to being the number one platform.

    But you just go ahead with your attempts at changing the premise of the discussion, trying to read things I didn't write & tossing in the ad-hominems. We know where you're coming from.

    And next time you mention that the POTUS uses a BlackBerry, make sure you also mention that Hugo Chavez picked up one too.
    If the government wants my Google info they can have it. They'd be yawning looking at what I do with Google applications. The title of this thread is Best Network Worst Smartphones, I somewhat agree with that. But best defines your individual use. Nobody is saying BBery is the best, in fact there is no "best" because no one phone does it all. What about the number of users that decided iphone and ATT weren't for them. Where is the churn rates documented? A lot of hubris and strawman arguements are floating around in this discussion. Didn't know Chavez uses a BBery, but that isn't quite germain to anything because he probably isn't on Verizon.

    Verizon always has deals on it's phones, but so does ATT. My friend got an iphone for free from ATT and then returned it for a free BBerry Bold because once the aura died down he had a 1000 nonsense applications installed and couldn't do with it what he really wanted. He would never have paid money for the iphone. So I believe this works both ways. And Verizon understands it has to be more aggressive. More phones with more features combined with more bars in most places is a win win for Verizon.

    People will jump ship for a phone, but the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.
    Last edited by i7guy; 09-18-09 at 12:06 PM.
    09-18-09 12:01 PM
  23. Darthkuriboh's Avatar
    Twins,

    I don't have an "inability" to use a winblows device, I don't LIKE winblows. At all. I run xp sp2 on my box because my games and programs aren't available on a linux platform, otherwise I'd run linux exclusively. I use 6.1 phones all day long at work because I get calls on them. I don't like mediocrisoft. Period. As for palm, I've read the palm forums for a while since the pre came out and its complaint after complaint after complaint about it not working. After the nightmares known as the Treo and the Centro, I, like many, have no faith in a palm device. I don't have an issue with android devices and WHEN we get one I'll likely give it a 30 day test and see if I like it.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    09-18-09 02:01 PM
  24. lastraid's Avatar
    Twins,

    I don't have an "inability" to use a winblows device, I don't LIKE winblows. At all. I run xp sp2 on my box because my games and programs aren't available on a linux platform, otherwise I'd run linux exclusively. I use 6.1 phones all day long at work because I get calls on them. I don't like mediocrisoft. Period. As for palm, I've read the palm forums for a while since the pre came out and its complaint after complaint after complaint about it not working. After the nightmares known as the Treo and the Centro, I, like many, have no faith in a palm device. I don't have an issue with android devices and WHEN we get one I'll likely give it a 30 day test and see if I like it.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Palm Confirms No More WinMo Phones
    Yesterday, 3:13 PM by Eric M. Zeman

    Palm revealed during a press call today that it will no longer make and sell smartphones based on Microsoft's Windows Mobile operating platform. It will only release devices using its own webOS platform from now on. The company also reiterated that it continues to develop and improve webOS, and that it will be able to push out system updates via the Internet. Palm noted that it sold 823,000 phones during its first fiscal quarter, but it wouldn't specify what percentage were represented by the Pre, which has been available from Sprint since June.
    09-18-09 02:04 PM
  25. Darthkuriboh's Avatar
    A chunk of those are going to be replacements of replacements that had to be done as new devices. Still more palm has a sort of lock on because real estate agents use an IR program for unlocking doors to show houses that isn't available on other devices. All the palm users I get on the phone at work are real estate agents and none of them can wait for blackberry to have the same capability.

    If you want TRUE numbers, find out how many of those devices were returned. Also, how many Pre's have sold SINCE the first 2 weeks of release.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    09-18-09 02:11 PM
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