05-28-09 05:19 AM
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  1. gotblackberry's Avatar
    Something like 80% of our customers who leave come back within the first year. We do have the most loyal customer base, for a reason. I'm sure that Verizon is willing to negotiate (which is why we gave him half). That makes sense to me, it wasn't all verizon's fault.

    Let us know how it turns out though, please.
    03-09-09 05:50 PM
  2. Funnystuff's Avatar
    Again, I am not trying to screw VZW over and have not hidden any of the details of what I did not lied about any of it. That has to count for something. I have been with VZW for years now, have really valued their services. I honestly thought that the data plan was active, I called to switch phones, not to deactivate a data plan. I did think that deactivating a data plan in this case would amount to an early opt out and thus be subject to a $175 penalty -- that is I assumed it would simply remain active. If I had been alerted that by switching devices I would no longer have an active data plan and that I would simply have access to airtime minutes, all of this would never have happened. VZW has no way of knowing this for certain. But all signs point to absurdity since I have never lied about what happened and was completely naive to any problem, and I should have a pretty good if not excellent record as a customer...I was not willingly violating a TOS, but I am beginning to despair that I may evetr figure out how to convincingly show that it defies logic for anyone to conclude that I was willingly doing so.


    To be clear -- I want to point out that a VZW rep did offer 50% credit. That was at the discretion of a supervisor who obviously felt my perspective is compelling enough to merit some credit, and who also acknowledged that Verizon shared some degree of responsibility in this mishap. (BTW I spoke with another supervisor today who was willing to entertain the question of what arrangement I would find acceptable, but he was also not able to over-ride the initial offer). Is it really so irresponsible of me to hope that someone higher up on the ladder, who has more discretion to break from the script, who recognizes the script is not able to take the full scope of the human nature of this dilemma and leads to a really punative resolution if it stands as currently offered, may be willing to extend more credit?

    I acknowledge there is some degree of personal culpability here, and am not asking to be let off scott free. Verizon obviously incurred costs for the data I used. But the costs they incurred are so minimal compared to the charges they are imposing. The amount they lose by writing off the charges that would otherwise accue to them amount to paper loss. Any earnings in this case is more than they would have received if i'd known WTF I was doing and left it alone. On the other hand the cost to my family of a $400 phone bill represents real hardship.

    I hope someone at VZW recognizes this. I will certainly post re: the results of the next discussion. I have further questions about any steps I may have recourse to should I not get a satisfactory response.
    03-10-09 02:05 AM
  3. ok4a56's Avatar
    This is the very reason I double check anything I do over the phone, on the website so I know what I think was told to me is the case and I am getting what I think I am paying for.
    03-10-09 02:42 AM
  4. gotblackberry's Avatar
    Again, I am not trying to screw VZW over and have not hidden any of the details of what I did not lied about any of it. That has to count for something. I have been with VZW for years now, have really valued their services. I honestly thought that the data plan was active, I called to switch phones, not to deactivate a data plan. I did think that deactivating a data plan in this case would amount to an early opt out and thus be subject to a $175 penalty -- that is I assumed it would simply remain active. If I had been alerted that by switching devices I would no longer have an active data plan and that I would simply have access to airtime minutes, all of this would never have happened. VZW has no way of knowing this for certain. But all signs point to absurdity since I have never lied about what happened and was completely naive to any problem, and I should have a pretty good if not excellent record as a customer...I was not willingly violating a TOS, but I am beginning to despair that I may evetr figure out how to convincingly show that it defies logic for anyone to conclude that I was willingly doing so.


    To be clear -- I want to point out that a VZW rep did offer 50% credit. That was at the discretion of a supervisor who obviously felt my perspective is compelling enough to merit some credit, and who also acknowledged that Verizon shared some degree of responsibility in this mishap. (BTW I spoke with another supervisor today who was willing to entertain the question of what arrangement I would find acceptable, but he was also not able to over-ride the initial offer). Is it really so irresponsible of me to hope that someone higher up on the ladder, who has more discretion to break from the script, who recognizes the script is not able to take the full scope of the human nature of this dilemma and leads to a really punative resolution if it stands as currently offered, may be willing to extend more credit?

    I acknowledge there is some degree of personal culpability here, and am not asking to be let off scott free. Verizon obviously incurred costs for the data I used. But the costs they incurred are so minimal compared to the charges they are imposing. The amount they lose by writing off the charges that would otherwise accue to them amount to paper loss. Any earnings in this case is more than they would have received if i'd known WTF I was doing and left it alone. On the other hand the cost to my family of a $400 phone bill represents real hardship.

    I hope someone at VZW recognizes this. I will certainly post re: the results of the next discussion. I have further questions about any steps I may have recourse to should I not get a satisfactory response.
    The thing is even the associate you talked to has full discretion. People think that because they talk to a supervisor they might get more (sometimes supervisors do give in just to prevent further escalations) but reps on the phones have basically the same authority and as long as they have a good justification they can do whatever they want.

    I would have offered you 25%, then 50% depending on your tenure, arpu, credit and payment history.

    What do you think would be satisfactory?
    03-10-09 02:48 AM
  5. Funnystuff's Avatar
    Again -- I was not out to screw VZW over. I have at no point tried to hide or misrepresent the facts/my knowledge of them. I have truly valued the services and support I've received from VZW, and think I've generated a decent if not excellent customer history. I would be loathe to cancel the account and truly do not want to slog through the disruption such a drastic action would generate. I think VZW recognizes all of this, even the last point, and has acted accordingly.

    I was truly caught off guard by this -- I'd called to switch phones, and it is unfortunate that no ensuing changes in the data package occured. At the time, I let the VZW rep know I was using my insurance to get the Storm replaced, further I simply thought that to cancel the data package would amount to an early cancellation and would thus be subject to the $175 penalty -- in other words I thought the plan would remain active.

    I think it bears pointing out that I have already convincingly argued that I did not willingly violate any TOS -- let's not forget that the first supervisor I spoke with immediately recognized I had a compelling story and legitimate concern, and because of this she offered to credit the account 50%.

    I am not asking to be let off without any financial stake in this mishap. There are many lessons I have learned as a result -- from the wisdom of double checking "My Verizon" after making any changes to the account, to the way the blackberry data plan works, etc. Further, I recognize that VZW incurred costs to support the data I used. I have no way of knowing to what extent the costs to VZW were in proportional to the 50% they have so far offered to write off. I do know that a $300+ data charge is out of all proportion for my family, especially when you consider the data plan costs $1 per day. To be clear, a $400+ phone bill represents a real immediate threat to the financial viability of my family. It simply feels unjust and punative.

    Again -- let's not forget that at some point VZW recognized this. Therefor I ask those of you beating the personal accountability drum --

    Is it really so irresponsible and unrealistic of me to hope that someone higher up on the ladder at VZW, someone who may be authorized to exercise greater discretion and who can recognize that following the script in this case results in a lose-lose situation with real human and business costs, may be willing to flex a little more muscle and undo more of the charges? Where is the great irreparable harm to VZW and society in general in my asking for mercy? It's called self-advocacy, which is a critical skill in exercising personal accountability.
    03-10-09 03:33 AM
  6. Funnystuff's Avatar
    I meant to say iI had called to activate a different phone, and it is unfortunate that no ensuing discussion of changes to the data package occurred.
    03-10-09 03:38 AM
  7. Funnystuff's Avatar
    I understand now that it makes sense that the data package would "fall off" but at the time it didn't occur to me since I had announced my intention to replace one with another, and I assumed incorrectly that discontinuing would amount to early termination and thus be subject to a heavy penalty.

    I am not claiming these assumptions are examples of my intellectual prowess at it's best. In fact, this is my first smartphone and I was totally naive and uninformed -- which is my point, that I was uninformed. You say it was not VZW's fault, and I admit that I used the data -- but in the most literal sense of "uninformed" -- there was no discussion of the changes to the data.

    The argument that I would be upset if I was charged for a data plan that I didn't use is at best irrelevant -- remember, my Storm was still functioning. If VZW have told me the plan was remaining active, and if my Storm were completely trashed without any functionality, I would have argued that the device was completely unusable and asked for the plan to be disccontinued. But then it seems likely VZW could just have easily said they have no way of proving that I could not use data, so to cover their bases they would have had to keep the plan active while I awaited my replacement. Or -- if I hadn't been told the data plan was still active, I may have been upset but not financially wounded,. More to the point -- since I was able to get some use out of the phone then why on Earth would I complain about being charged $1/day while waiting for the replacement?

    03-10-09 03:58 AM
  8. Funnystuff's Avatar
    Better yet, if the plan was going to remain active, and if my device were totally dead so I asked for an exception -- they may granted this exception and STILL told me I would be liable for any data usage that occured while waiting to activate my replacement! Problem bloody solved.
    03-10-09 04:01 AM
  9. Funnystuff's Avatar
    To be clear -- I had called VZW and announced my intention to replace one Storm with another...
    03-10-09 04:12 AM
  10. ScottRPriester's Avatar
    Now you had issues with your device, called your carrier - this could be any carrier, actually - and asked for a replacement. They advised you that your service would be transferred to your old LG phone while you waited for a replacement.

    Regardless of what you did on your LG phone, you were told the service was moved. What possessed you to even think to use your BlackBerry? The service plans were removed, yet you chose to use the device.
    That's the whole point right there. Why would you even, oh never mind, this is so ridiculous. This reminds me to much of what happens in our store every day.
    03-10-09 06:22 AM
  11. cae2685's Avatar
    I'm still with Verizon because of the discount I get through work. I work for a HUGE company, and as more of us sign up for vzw discounts thru the company, the discount keeps getting bigger. I get 18% off my voice plan and 25 or 30% off my data plan (woo!) so my entire bill is less than some people i know with just dumbphones.

    Plus their coverage is the best in my area, i've never had a problem with it when traveling, and i've never had a customer service issue that couldn't be solved by threatening to cancel my service and find someone who wasn't an *****. Ahh, empty threats
    03-10-09 09:36 AM
  12. Funnystuff's Avatar
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TwinsX2Dad
    Now you had issues with your device, called your carrier - this could be any carrier, actually - and asked for a replacement. They advised you that your service would be transferred to your old LG phone while you waited for a replacement.

    Regardless of what you did on your LG phone, you were told the service was moved. What possessed you to even think to use your BlackBerry? The service plans were removed, yet you chose to use the device.

    Quote 2:
    That's the whole point right there. Why would you even, oh never mind, this is so ridiculous. This reminds me to much of what happens in our store every day.

    What possessed me was simple misunderstanding about the way a blackberry account works. Please remember, my point is that I was not told the service plans were "removed." Hence my choosing to use the device was not as fully informed as it could have been. Most people in this forum seem to think I should simply have known, but given the facts, that is unsound. I speak to this elsewhere in this thread -- at least two supervisors have said they agree that I am not entirely to "blame."

    In other words, VZW has already recognized it had a duty to inform.

    Is it such an affront to your conception of right and wrong and an insult to your higher power that I would ask to speak with someone higher up the ladder who may be in a position to extend a little more help? If you believe in accountability, and if you agree with VZW that there was duty to inform, and if you recognize that the offer to cut 50% credit was arbitraily set, you'll recognize I am simply practicing self-advocacy. I may be in the minority who believes that if the "blame" is shared equally then the punishment must be shared proportionally to one's ability to bear it, otherwise there is injustice if not abuse. If any higher ups in VZW have an issue with this, e.g if they insist that the unalterable policy is that the customer pays what he or she gets billed and that VZW is not at fault here, I am truly sorry if these supervisors get in trouble for breaking company policy, and if they did I would feel more compelled to cut ties with Verizon.


    I've received an lot of take home advice from memebers in this forum about how to be a more responsible consumer, and it is welcome if also a tad humiliating. Well here is some "take to the office" advice for Verizon Wireless: recognize that at the practice and policy level they need to strive to reduce the likelihood of this ever happening again with other customers. Recognize that if their practice and policy is simply to expect the customer to assume or reason that a plan is being removed, that is unsound and perhaps costly. Instead, in cases such as mine, they should insert the following language in the standard customer service rep script: "Your data plan will be removed and you will be charged [insert language to reflect the going rate for uncovered kilo/megabyte use] for any use until you reactivate it." That is not too much to ask, it would cost little to implement, it is clear and unambiguous, and most importantly it is forthright and proactive. Given the surprise and sympathy expressed by others in this forum, I imagine I'm not the only person whom this could or has happened to.

    I would love to know what you think.
    03-10-09 01:08 PM
  13. Funnystuff's Avatar
    I aplogize for the double post...

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TwinsX2Dad
    Now you had issues with your device, called your carrier - this could be any carrier, actually - and asked for a replacement. They advised you that your service would be transferred to your old LG phone while you waited for a replacement.

    Regardless of what you did on your LG phone, you were told the service was moved. What possessed you to even think to use your BlackBerry? The service plans were removed, yet you chose to use the device.

    Quote 2:
    That's the whole point right there. Why would you even, oh never mind, this is so ridiculous. This reminds me to much of what happens in our store every day.


    What possessed me was simple misunderstanding about the way a blackberry account works. Please remember, my point is that I was not told the service plans were "removed." Hence my choosing to use the device was not as fully informed as it could have been. Most people in this forum seem to think I should simply have known, but given the facts, that is unsound. Further it is not a rationally defendable policy for this company to follow. I speak to this elsewhere in this thread -- at least two supervisors have said they agree that I am not entirely to "blame."

    In other words, VZW has already recognized it had a duty to inform.

    Is it such an affront to your conception of right and wrong and an insult to your higher power that I would ask to speak with someone higher up the ladder who may be in a position to extend a little more help? If you believe in accountability, and if you agree with VZW that there was duty to inform, and if you recognize that the offer to cut 50% credit was arbitraily set, you'll recognize I am simply practicing self-advocacy. I may be in the minority who believes that if the "blame" is shared equally then the punishment must be shared proportionally to one's ability to bear it, otherwise there is injustice if not abuse. If any higher ups in VZW have an issue with this, e.g if they insist that the unalterable policy is that the customer pays what he or she gets billed and that VZW is not at fault here, I am truly sorry if these supervisors get in trouble for breaking company policy, and if they did I would feel more compelled to cut ties with Verizon.


    I've received an lot of take home advice from memebers in this forum about how to be a more responsible consumer, and it is welcome if also a tad humiliating. Well here is some "take to the office" advice for Verizon Wireless: recognize that at the practice and policy level they need to strive to reduce the likelihood of this ever happening again with other customers. Recognize that if their practice and policy is simply to expect the customer to assume or reason that a plan is being removed, that is unsound and perhaps costly. Instead, in cases such as mine, they should insert the following language in the standard customer service rep script: "Your data plan will be removed and you will be charged [insert language to reflect the going rate for uncovered kilo/megabyte use] for any use until you reactivate it." That is not too much to ask, it would cost little to implement, it is clear and unambiguous, and most importantly it is forthright and proactive. Given the surprise and sympathy expressed by others in this forum, I imagine I'm not the only person whom this could or has happened to.

    I would love to know what you think.
    03-10-09 01:15 PM
  14. gotblackberry's Avatar
    This is the exact reason why I support requiring data plan.

    I understand your point, I'm not bashing you, I'm not saying you're irresponsible or anything. You've come in here and respectfully stated your opinion, you didn't flame VzW or anyone. How much do you spend per month? How many lines do you have? Hows your payment history? How long have you been with us? Have you ever had credits before? Honestly..
    03-10-09 01:54 PM
  15. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    Well here is some "take to the office" advice for Verizon Wireless: recognize that at the practice and policy level they need to strive to reduce the likelihood of this ever happening again with other customers. Recognize that if their practice and policy is simply to expect the customer to assume or reason that a plan is being removed, that is unsound and perhaps costly. Instead, in cases such as mine, they should insert the following language in the standard customer service rep script: "Your data plan will be removed and you will be charged [insert language to reflect the going rate for uncovered kilo/megabyte use] for any use until you reactivate it." That is not too much to ask, it would cost little to implement, it is clear and unambiguous, and most importantly it is forthright and proactive. Given the surprise and sympathy expressed by others in this forum, I imagine I'm not the only person whom this could or has happened to.

    I would love to know what you think.
    Actually, I agree with you. You should have been told beforehand & when you first called about your issue. The problem is that, no matter what company you're dealing with, written agreements always tend to trump verbal customer service issues.

    If companies really believed the customer was always riight, there'd be no written disclaimers, TOS agreements or contracts.

    The reasoning goes in the direction that if customer service reps were to cover all contingencies, they'd be on the phone all day & you'd be upset that they were wasting your time. We've become a nation of disclaimers because personal responsibility has been trained out of people. Because of this, no matter what should or should have been said, the written agreements hold sway.

    Now, what should you do? Stop calling 611. Don't make a scene at the store. Go to the VZW site & find the Contact Us link. Look for an email link/form that will allow you to give service feedback or file a complaint. If I had the laptop working right now, I'd be more specific, but I don't, so bear with me.

    Fill out your details in much the way you have here. Make sure you provide not only your VZW number, but an extra one where you can be reached. Be certain to illustrate how long you've been a customer and how this situation makes you feel like jumping ship. Be kind in tone, but articulate your displeasure. Add in the best time to call you.

    Your complaint will reach an executive level CS manager who will call you. These folks can do more for you than the 611 supervisors, who often know less than the person who answered the phone. They can also do more for you than can the store managers, who are bound by policies & who must explain anything they do that is contrary to written agreements.

    When they call you, be ready to redescribe the issue. These folks are good at correcting things within reason. Know that the better your standing is with VZW and the more reasonable (and sane) you sound, the better your odds are they will go out of their way for you. If you sound like a madman who never pays their bill on time, forget it.

    Of course, if you speak the way you write, you'll have no trouble. Next to you, my writing is that of a crazed loon.

    Just remember that, in writing, you're wrong & they're right. Don't go in expecting much, but if VZW acts like VZW, you'll be delighted.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    03-10-09 02:55 PM
  16. Funnystuff's Avatar
    To Weekendbum and TwinsX2Dad --

    I rarely use all caps, but at the risk of losing my rep as a decent writer, here goes nothing:

    THANK YOU!!! THANK YOU!!! THANK YOU!!!

    When I saw that you'd replied to my last posts I figured "Oh here we go, I'm gonna be nailed with yet another couple of things I'd failed to consider." But then I corrected my attitude and reminded myself that thanks to your replies I'd likely learn something I could use in the phone call from management and for that I could be grateful.

    If you knew how much distress I've been managing as a result of this misfortune, how much sleep I've been losing, how much agony I've suffered trying to figure out how to break the news to my partner, and how I am actually crying as I type this, you'd understand how much your encouragement means...Given all the emotional turmoil the sane and composed routine may be hard to pull off when management calls and may lapse into whimpering and stammering.

    My main goal in respecting the time of the manager who calls is to strive to fashion a win-win solution. As confident as I am that this will be well-received in principle, I am despairing that I may never make the case that the current solution amounts to win-lose -- worse that such an assertion would be seen as insulting and ungrateful, that my plight may be received as just another SOB story, that the power of my plea is faded insofar as it lay in the immediate genuine bewilderment I felt in the initial call I'd made to customer service to figure out what was wrong with my account.

    As for my account history -- I am regrettably hazy on the exact details.. I have been a Verizon customer for about six years. I added a second line about two to three years ago for my partner, and currently spend about $110/month on that family plan. I had added a third line about two months ago but my partner was not happy that I did so without talking with her first and convinced me it was an expense we could not justify, so I cancelled within 30 days and paid the restocking fee on another LG I'd purchased for the third line. I recall I may have had a brief patch of difficulty and missed one or two regular payments very early in the account history, but have been on-time without interruption for at least four years since switching to auto pay. I have never asked for credits but I may have arranged a payment plan back when I think payment was missed. I am not a stranger to larger than expected bills...On two occassions when I used far more airtime than covered in my plan, the first time customer service alerted me to the overage and advised me to make use of the worry-free guarantee to upgrade my plan and cover it, which I did, whereas the second time I simply paid without question since I caught it only after the billing cycle. So it's likely not a pristine record, but it's been nothing if not much improved over a long stretch. I wish I could remember all of this with more accuracy! Maybe it's just too early in the morning. I look forward to getting management's perspective on it.

    Once again thanks for the tips and encouragement.
    03-11-09 06:47 AM
  17. DIA.NSA.CIA's Avatar
    After everything is done...if you still own the 300+ dollars...see if they will accept a 6 month interest-free payment plan to pay off that bill.
    03-11-09 01:03 PM
  18. gotblackberry's Avatar
    Funny. I wouldn't start out the conversation with management, "I've been a customer for many years." "If I don't get this I will disconnect" Contrary to what twin said. That usually turns them off. Everyone says that.

    Just explain the situation, and then explained, "You can look at my account history, I pay my bill on time and rarely ask for credits unless I feel it's justified." Or something to that nature.

    Bringing up how you have 3 lines, or you pay this much per month only makes management angry. They deal mostly with people with 5k+ lines and/or people who always escalate no matter what (there are people who always want to talk to management..)
    03-11-09 06:16 PM
  19. Funnystuff's Avatar
    Just a quick update for the folks who have been hammering away at this with me -- There was no call from Verizon management this week. (I had initially been told Sunday, by the call center supervisor, that her supervisor would be the one to take the matter up and would be getting back to me Monday). I did call CS twice -- first thing on Monday just to see if I could jumpstart the conversation and before I knew my request was going to be handled by management, and once again late Tuesday when the call didn't happen as promised on Monday -- I was respectfully told that I'd been given unrealistic expectation for a call Monday and told to expect it by the end of the week instead. I fully realized this meant there may be no call by the end of the week, but I'm still a bit bummed about the suspense of waiting the weekend. I have not gone to a store to talk about this with employees there and have no plans to.

    I have two questions --

    1) a] Would using the website "contact us" route lead this matter to a different department/tier of management? b]If so would it amount to stepping on somebody's toes?

    2) Re: the statement (here by TwinsX2Dad) that "...in writing, you're wrong & they're right," I have reviewed the BB solutions plan and found only this statement --

    Required Equipment
    Verizon Wireless BlackBerry Handheld

    -- which seems to be the backbone of the argument that once the Storm was switched for the LG 8300, I no longer had a data plan by default. Is there any other pertinent written policy I should bear in mind? Seems it may be worthwhile for me to check the terms of the data package I'd signed on for as stated on my original receipt. (I know, "Duh!" You can stop rolling your eyes now...)

    Thanks again to all who have slogged through this mess with me. I'll definitely post once the matter is settled (regardless of the outcome).
    03-14-09 02:15 AM
  20. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    Well, I've been off & on, mostly off even when here. Recovering from pneumonia does that to you.

    I would definitely use the website link. It isn't an issue of stepping on toes - if that ended up being the case, simply point out the "unrealistic" timeframe you were given.

    As far as the agreement goes, that we've already established & we don't need to rehash it. I believe this is a customer service issue and one that may be above the permissable abilities of call center staff to correct.

    From my experience, the website link will get you to a higher level management type with more latitude in what they can do. It also seems to result in a faster response time.

    You will receive an auto-reply soon after sending it. Don't take that as being blown off. I believe you get the same basic form even for simple comments or idea submissions.

    Just don't give up yet. A few of us have high hopes for a resolution for you.

    For now though, I think I am on a path to being able to breathe again - I wake up & check messages while waiting for the stuff to clear my lungs. So again, it is goodnight.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    03-14-09 03:43 AM
  21. gotblackberry's Avatar
    It's not auto. Every email either gets a call or a response. I used to work for the "Contact Us" team. I still do projects w/ them when they get overflown with emails.
    03-14-09 05:27 AM
  22. reeneebob's Avatar
    I personally am wondering one thing - if the phone was so damaged it requires replacement, how was Slacker still working? What exactly was the damage?

    Whenever I have had a damaged phone and waited for replacement, I haven't used the phone, because it's damaged. It makes sense for a company to kill a data plan if the phone is damaged enough to require a replacement since it would cut down on fraudulent insurance claims.
    03-14-09 11:18 AM
  23. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    It's not auto. Every email either gets a call or a response. I used to work for the "Contact Us" team. I still do projects w/ them when they get overflown with emails.
    I don't believe I alluded to the only response being auto - but the system does send an auto-reply usually within minutes as a confirmation of receipt. It's just that some folks interpret that auto-response negatively & I was trying to prep him.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    03-14-09 11:45 AM
  24. Funnystuff's Avatar
    I personally am wondering one thing - if the phone was so damaged it requires replacement, how was Slacker still working? What exactly was the damage?

    Whenever I have had a damaged phone and waited for replacement, I haven't used the phone, because it's damaged. It makes sense for a company to kill a data plan if the phone is damaged enough to require a replacement since it would cut down on fraudulent insurance claims.
    I figured I had the phone, I may as well tinker with it -- mostly because I had just received, on the same day as but immediately following the accident, an extended life battery (the Seidio 1600) which had minor visible defects and an Otterbox case. I wasn't sure if the trouble I was having was battery, Otterbox or water damage related. Couple that with the already less-than-reliable performance of the device OS I'd been experiencing prior to the accident, and I was not sure how to explain any of the problems I was observing. I made the calls to Verizon and Asurian, and the Storm dried out. The more I tinkered with the device, the batteries and the Otterbox the more I was able to pinpoint which variables were responsible for the various performance issues I was observing, and I determined that the the device had been most seriously compromised by water: I was having a hard time getting batteries to charge since most of the time the device struggled to recognize a battery at all (regardless of whether it was the OEM or the Seidio). With some drying, battery pulls, and a reinstall of the OS the performance/reliablity of the device improved but the battery issues remained. Slacker worked. The two pre-installed games worked. That was pretty much all I used the device for -- tinkering with the OS and general device options/battery/Otterbox, listening to Slacker, and playing Brickbreaker and Word Mole. While those were pretty lame uses of such a more capable device, I was more than happy to have some fun stuff to do with it as I waited for the replacement Storm to arrive. Man what a headache.

    Also -- I am not saying it doesn't make sense for Verizon to cancel data plans, but I think there are reasonable exceptions. Also I'm not sure I get the insurance rip-off concern -- except in the case of a fraudulent claim for a lost/stolen phone in which case data usage would be unassignable. I am saying that the situation I was in was akin to the following analogy (which actually came to me in a dream a few nights ago, and which may just show why I am not in the restaurant business):

    Let's say you go to a restaurant to take advantage of a special going on -- order the beef bourguignon, and you get a drastic break in the price of a multi-flight wine sampler. You order both. The beef and the wine sampler arrive, but the beef is rare when you ordered well done so you send it back to be cooked a little longer, and ask for some sides to hold you over. The beef is cleared off the table, but the wine remains and you partake of them without further delay or discussion of the original order. The beef returns some time later, you enjoy the meal, and eventually ask for the bill only to find you've been charged for the full price for each of the glasses of wine, uncorking of their respective bottles, etc. When you complain that you'd ordered the beef, it is explained that you drank the wine when the beef was not actually on the table.

    Obviously analogies can go only so far. There are some differences in the dream scenario above and what played out for me in waking life (e.g., that the beef was not acceptable was the restaurant's doing, whereas that the Storm was damaged was accidental/my doing), and I fully expect to be taken to school for even daring to draw such a naive and weak analogy. But from my perspective -- it serves to illustrate a point or two about the assumptions I was making regarding my data plan and my hopes for a less-costly resolution to this misunderstanding.
    03-15-09 02:38 AM
  25. Funnystuff's Avatar
    Well, I've been off & on, mostly off even when here. Recovering from pneumonia does that to you.

    I would definitely use the website link. It isn't an issue of stepping on toes - if that ended up being the case, simply point out the "unrealistic" timeframe you were given.

    As far as the agreement goes, that we've already established & we don't need to rehash it. I believe this is a customer service issue and one that may be above the permissable abilities of call center staff to correct.

    From my experience, the website link will get you to a higher level management type with more latitude in what they can do. It also seems to result in a faster response time.

    You will receive an auto-reply soon after sending it. Don't take that as being blown off. I believe you get the same basic form even for simple comments or idea submissions.

    Just don't give up yet. A few of us have high hopes for a resolution for you.

    For now though, I think I am on a path to being able to breathe again - I wake up & check messages while waiting for the stuff to clear my lungs. So again, it is goodnight.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Thanks for using some of what strength you have left to respond. I wish there was something helpful I could do for you. I spent five days in bed trying to beat some respiratory funk only a few weeks ago... With babies around it was tough. Chicken soup made from chicken bones and various scrap chicken leftovers did wonders, for real. Speedy recovery to you.
    03-15-09 02:50 AM
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