05-28-09 05:19 AM
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  1. gotblackberry's Avatar
    Why do we even bother? The guy has shown zero ability or desire to understand the simplest of telecom use.

    The only reasons I unblocked his posts is because everyone keeps quoting his, he seems to like following my posts and it might be a good thing to refute his drivel before newbies take what he says as truth.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    What can I say. I have hope that it will change.
    03-06-09 02:30 PM
  2. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    Oh no - you used 'hope' & 'change' in the same sentence. QUIT READING THOSE NEWSPAPERS!

    I guess it could be worse, but reading Rican's posts is more comical than this: Wallypop Family Wipes, Toilet Wipes, Reusable Toilet Paper

    Hey - we're running out of things to talk about. Reusable toilet wipes shouldn't be off-limits in this discussion.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    03-06-09 02:49 PM
  3. gotblackberry's Avatar
    I was hoping you caught the poke at Obama there. Haha.
    03-06-09 03:31 PM
  4. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    I was hoping you caught the poke at Obama there. Haha.
    I can't imagine ever missing at opportunity to make a poke at King Hussein of America.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    03-06-09 04:03 PM
  5. bigvtec's Avatar
    it all comes down like this you want big tits or you want bee bites choose wisely.on the real note just be happy you can deppend on there service an the bars to be there all 5 of them.
    03-06-09 08:34 PM
  6. bigvtec's Avatar
    [why the blackberry phones dont have a flash media player?i got the storm an to be honest i think the phone was not ready to be on the market.i got tons of updates an themes an games.its so slow when u multitask on it.but this phone would be the bomd if it had a media player or flash player.
    03-06-09 08:49 PM
  7. lastraid's Avatar
    Write to RIM and ask why
    03-06-09 09:05 PM
  8. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    I guess the iPhone isn't worth anything either. Or the Palm. Or...

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    03-06-09 11:14 PM
  9. Funnystuff's Avatar
    Could be a sour goodbye...

    My most recent bill is over $700, and $666 of that is from data usage. I thought surely there was a mistake -- I have the BB unlimitted data plan. When I spoke with customer service, they said it was all bona-fide data usage and I would have to pay.

    I cried foul, and had them look into the usage. Thy said it had all been used on an older LG 8300 I'd activated over the course of a few days in the billing cycle when my Storm had to be replaced. I had to laugh -- I had not used the 8300 for any data-related services on the dates in question, even when it was my main phone, and certaily couldn't imagine what kind of acrobatics I'd have to push that peeshooter of a device to in order to get over $600 in charges. But they insisted it was all legitimate and I'd have to pay.

    I demanded to speak with a supervisor, and we figured out that when I had called to activate the LG and begun waiting for my replacement Storm, the data package had been suspended -- which I had not been alerted to. Meanwhile, while I was waiting for the replacement Storm, I had been tinkering with the damaged device -- mostly listening to Slacker. Hence the data usage.

    I thought that would be an easy fix, but was outraged to learn that the supervisor would only credit my account %50 of the charges -- in other words the best she was willing to do was to cut the charges to $333. I let her know I expected more assistance than this and asked why she wouldn't extend more credit. She said it wasn't Verizon's "fault" though she understood that if I had been told that the data package was being suspended I would have simply put the phone up and never have incurred several hundred dollars worth of charges.

    I told her I would likely end services with Verizon, thanked her insofar as the credit she was willing to extend would cut into the cost of doing so. I arranged to speak with her supervisor tomorrow (Monday, 3/9) just to see if there was anything more the next in command could do -- I mean I went from zero assistance to %50 on this call, it seems premature to assume that's where it will end.

    But -- if there is no effort to work with me I'm going to force the issue as to which is in their interest -- keeping a long-term customer by extending full credit on this matter and thus assuring themselves another $2000 (20 months left on my contract @ over $100/month of services), or insisting I pay $333 now. For me and my family, the choice would be obvious...pay now but then it's bye bye Verizon Wireless.
    03-08-09 03:38 PM
  10. lastraid's Avatar
    So you then deactivated the 8300 and activated the storm again??? If this was the case this would have activated the data plan again. If not, then the storm would not have worked at all.


    THere is a piece of the story missing here.
    03-08-09 03:42 PM
  11. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    THere is a piece of the story missing here.
    Not only that, but how do you get $34 in legitimate charges? $700-$666=$34.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    03-08-09 06:11 PM
  12. Funnystuff's Avatar
    The sequence of events --

    Original Storm got damaged (3 yo son knocked it into the sink while washing his hands). Contacted Asurian and then VZW to activate a backup phone (LG 8300) while waiting for Storm replacement. While waiting, I incurred the $666 in charges (the bill itself, as I originally posted is for over $700 -- actually in the neighborhood of $750). As I mentioned, the Slacker App was still active, and I simply assumed the data plan was active in the interim while waiting a matter of days for the replacement Storm. That's the story folks, everything else is a red herring.

    It just strikes me as bloodthirsty that VZW would not see this as an honest mistake coverable by a pro-rated data coverage window -- three dollars a day -- and instead sock me for over a hundred times that (assuming they don't rescind their offer to halve the damages, in which case they would be socking me for over two hundred times the cost of pro-rating the data coverage).
    03-08-09 06:30 PM
  13. ScottRPriester's Avatar
    The sequence of events --

    Original Storm got damaged (3 yo son knocked it into the sink while washing his hands). Contacted Asurian and then VZW to activate a backup phone (LG 8300) while waiting for Storm replacement. While waiting, I incurred the $666 in charges (the bill itself, as I originally posted is for over $700 -- actually in the neighborhood of $750). As I mentioned, the Slacker App was still active, and I simply assumed the data plan was active in the interim while waiting a matter of days for the replacement Storm. That's the story folks, everything else is a red herring.
    I agree, something is missing here. Like I stated in your other thread, if you activated the LG, the Blackberry should have been dead.
    03-08-09 07:44 PM
  14. gotblackberry's Avatar
    The blackberry data plan is different then the LG's data plan. Just curious though, you admit you used the data, it was a faulty assumption to assume the blackberry data plan would remain when you de-activated your blackberry. Verizon is accepting 50% of the blame. Why is this not satisfactory? Why do you want it all credited back? On what grounds?
    03-08-09 07:46 PM
  15. lastraid's Avatar
    So did slacker work on the LG? - did not think it would. Again if you deactivated the Storm there no way the storm would have been able to run slacker. If it works on the LG and no data plan for that, then it most likely 1.99 per MB used.

    If it was on the LG, then I would try to do what you are doing. Have them add the data plan for the 3 days for the LG. this would be reasonable and I think VZW would go for that. I would as rep, would credit the whole thing and debit for the 3 days of data plan for the LG.

    Good luck I hope it works out.
    03-08-09 08:31 PM
  16. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    So did slacker work on the LG? - did not think it would. Again if you deactivated the Storm there no way the storm would have been able to run slacker. If it works on the LG and no data plan for that, then it most likely 1.99 per MB used.
    Slacker does not work on an LG, but it is very data intensive - the data also wasn't accessed through the LG. Instead, it was run on the BlackBerry as roaming data.

    You'd get the same thing on any carrier and charges for this type of use are covered in the TOS and the contract.

    I'd be thrilled that VZW offered to credit what they did, & would be extremely surprised to hear of another carrier agreeing to credit anything.

    I had a fight with AT&T over my last GSM Berry with them. I left them, closed all accounts. Gave a phone to a friend, who immediately activated it on AT&T - I know she did because I was on the phone to authorize the equipment transfer. She didn't buy the data plan & didn't know she was even supposed to. Well, she played with that phone & played with it some more. She paid her bill on time, too. Problem was, she wasn't being charged for the data - I was. After about 3 months, I got an AT&T bill for close to $3500.

    It took several letters to the AG, the BBB & others to get AT&T to credit me. Then I had to fight because they reported the late payments to the credit bureaus. I am sorry - I have pristine credit & no two-bit outfit is going to mess with it.

    Of course, there was a big difference here. The AT&T issue was caused by AT&T. One of the people I spoke with even admitted this, but said it was still up to me to pay.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    03-08-09 09:14 PM
  17. lastraid's Avatar
    Still not sure how? If the storm was not active, and he was roaming, how would device even get slacker?
    03-08-09 09:20 PM
  18. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    He already had Slacker. I've heard stories (mostly from my ex who never can remember to pay a bill) that the device is shut off, but the data will still go through.

    On a BlackBerry, there are two channels - one is ESN-driven while the other is PIN driven. VZW (or any carrier) doesn't have full control over the PIN side. For all we know, the phone roamed onto Sprint or another CDMA carrier to access data.

    Now, had there been no Slacker activity, there could be a case for credit. But in this case, the Storm's ESN was deactivated and data was willfully used.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    03-08-09 09:35 PM
  19. lastraid's Avatar
    WOW - cool, guess one learns something new everyday. I guess in this case carriers might control as VZW has the ability to get into the RIM Relay and suspend the pin there, I guess this might stop this from happening.

    Therefore, it was used with his knowledge and I would take the 50% and move on.
    03-08-09 09:40 PM
  20. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    WOW - cool, guess one learns something new everyday. I guess in this case carriers might control as VZW has the ability to get into the RIM Relay and suspend the pin there, I guess this might stop this from happening.

    Therefore, it was used with his knowledge and I would take the 50% and move on.
    I would too, as a personal responsibility issue.

    With the ex, she has a Pearl. About every three months or so, I call her and get the disconnect intercept. I can't send her an SMS or MMS message, but I can reach her through BBM. She then pays the bill and I have to listen to her voice again.

    A lot of folks don't consider that BlackBerry is flawed in that to function fully, two networks need to be active and working. It isn't the best way to assure reliability. From what I understand, a full disconnect of data takes a couple weeks through RIM.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    03-08-09 11:00 PM
  21. Funnystuff's Avatar
    I'll tell you what -- if I can be shown where it says any of this in clear and unambiguous language in the VZW contract, I'll agree the 50% offer amounts to a good faith effort on their part to keep doing business with a heretofore happy customer. I was not out to screw VZW, and am not now -- it is obscene (to me at least) to think I'd willingly rack up that kind of usage and then try to weasel out of it. I want a win-win solution to this, and I live and breathe the "personal accountability" angle.

    Even so -- if this type of language about the data plan is in the contract -- the rep I spoke with today admitted that VZW was in error for not alerting me the data plan would be suspended when I called to activate the LG. Not that reps know everything or don't occasionally speak out of turn, maybe she knows this is all covered in the contract and was simply talking about VZW customer service policy -- because at the end of the call when I activated my LG, during the part where the changes made to the account were reviewed and consented to -- there was no mention of this at all, and if there had been I assure you we would not be having this discussion right now because I would never have touched the thing except to ship it off to Asurian.

    Again -- show me where in the contract this is discussed. If it is not, or if it is at all ambiguous -- turning off the data plan without telling me amounts in effect to altering my plan without my consent/without due notice.

    Granted -- I think there is something in the contract about how VZW retains the right to alter the terms of service at will, but if that gets invoked in this instance as the only supporting contract info -- it by definition amount to their decision to stop working with me, and I would follow suit.
    03-08-09 11:45 PM
  22. Funnystuff's Avatar
    I looked at the customer agreement, and this is as close as it seems to come to touching on the facts of this matter:

    If Your Wireless Phone is Lost or Stolen
    If your wireless phone is lost or stolen, it is very important that you notify us immediately for your own protection, so that we can suspend your service to prevent further usage. If your bill shows charges to your phone after the loss but before you reported it, and you want a credit for those charges, we will investigate your account activity. You do not have to pay the charges you dispute while they are being investigated to determine whether the charges resulted from usage by someone not authorized to use the phone. Further, if we haven't given you a courtesy suspension of recurring monthly fees within the prior year, we'll give you one for 30 days, or until you replace or recover your wireless phone, whichever comes first. You may need to provide further information regarding the theft or loss if we ask for it.


    A courtesy is not something I am owed, and not something they are obliged to extend. I wish they wouldn't in this case, but they have and that strikes me as other than courteous. I guess they consider it a "courtesy" to charge me $333... Of course, that seems somewhat of a bastardization of the meaning and intent of "courtesy." If they wanted to operate in the spirit of "courtesy" -- I would ask that they let ME decide if I want to accept their offer or decline it and instead keep the data plan active.
    I never asked for it or consented to it, they never told me they were willing to extend it in this instance.

    Maybe I'm missing something from previous posts about the PIN question...I'll have to go re-read those and see where they take me. If anything I appreciate the food for thought. But I think the argument is going to rest on this whole courtesy point. As you can probably tell I like a good argument, but the stakes of this are uncomfortably high for me. In my world $300 buys a lot more than a day's lunch and itis discourteous not to ask for consent or to make one's intentions clear...
    03-09-09 12:08 AM
  23. gotblackberry's Avatar
    There isn't going to be anything in the contract regarding what's "good faith." That is on a case by case basis. It does say that you agree to pay ALL usage that we bill you. Unless it was a VzW error (which it's not, IMO). I agree that we should have told you, but you also have a responsibility to ask. Why wouldn't your blackberry data feature fall off when you switch off your blackberry? Imagine if we kept it on, customers would wonder why we're still charging for a BB data plan when they have an LG.

    If you get 100%, congratulations. It all depends on your previous credit history, ARPU, tenure, and payment history on how much you get.

    I think 50% is fair, and remember, VzW is one of the more liberal companies in regards to credits. We give more customer breaks, credits, etc than any other company. Try calling another company and tell them you just want a credit for your minutes because you went over. Good luck. Let us know how it turns out!
    03-09-09 01:50 PM
  24. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    and we figured out that when I had called to activate the LG and begun waiting for my replacement Storm, the data package had been suspended -- which I had not been alerted to. Meanwhile, while I was waiting for the replacement Storm, I had been tinkering with the damaged device -- mostly listening to Slacker. Hence the data usage.
    Forgive me if any of this strikes you wrong - it is not my intent, but I'd like to touch on what we see here.

    At $1.99/MB for data, it would seem you used about 330MB of data. Couple that with using a streaming service that is technically against the TOS of all carriers that I've seen, even though VZW currently looks the other way.

    Now you had issues with your device, called your carrier - this could be any carrier, actually - and asked for a replacement. They advised you that your service would be transferred to your old LG phone while you waited for a replacement.

    Regardless of what you did on your LG phone, you were told the service was moved. What possessed you to even think to use your BlackBerry? The service plans were removed, yet you chose to use the device.

    I asked one of my AT&T contacts about this question this morning. He said it would be against their policy to credit you anything, since you willingly and knowingly were using your device. He also said that customers should be told of this before they "play" with their phone - no, he didn't know if AT&T reps said anything, but did add that was irrelevant; the charges would still be valid.

    I can try VZNav or AT&T's TeleNav then call to have it removed from my account. If I then access the navigation system after removing the service, I'd get hit with their daily rate, which is considerably more.

    Out where I live, I can choose to subscribe to Rural-Metro fire services & pay something like $300/year. If I then use their service, it costs me nothing. If I don't pay their subscription and my home catches on fire, they still respond, but send me a bill for $2000. They don't have to tell me about this charge ahead of time - I use their services, so I pay for their services.

    Next time you disconnect a phone, don't try checking email, listening to Slacker or dialing 900 numbers. You already signed onto the service & agreed to the terms. Now that those terms are not in your favor, you shouldn't be surprised when your actions cause you some wallet-action.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    03-09-09 03:23 PM
  25. Steamboatsig's Avatar
    You yelled "rape" at the top of your lungs!

    Mom, I honestly thought I was going to be raped for a second. He had the craziest look in his eyes, and at one point he said "let's get it on."
    03-09-09 04:39 PM
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