05-28-09 05:19 AM
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  1. gotblackberry's Avatar
    Exactly people are like "Well I can get unlimited service DSL for so much cheaper" Well for one, it's not unlimited (Comcast hates me cause I hit 250gb or so in a month sometimes LOL I'm constantly fighting w/ them.) for two it's because it runs through a cable and not wireless through towers. They don't seem to understand there is a HUGE difference.
    03-04-09 10:02 PM
  2. RicanMedic78's Avatar
    see, I'm no marketing person, but I'm wiling to bet that there are people that would replace their home ISP for tethering because of their limited need for internet (e.g. basic e-mail/browsing). And at a competitive price with on the go features which tethering provides, as a laymen, I can see a huge market for it. Plus, the 5gb cap can always kill the desires of say... your local gamers... So thats sort of a mute point.
    03-05-09 06:45 AM
  3. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    see, I'm no marketing person, but I'm wiling to bet that there are people that would replace their home ISP for tethering because of their limited need for internet (e.g. basic e-mail/browsing).
    They already have that ability.

    It's called BlackBerry.

    Or WinMo.

    Or Palm.

    $30/mo instead of $40+.

    Or less on smaller carriers.
    03-05-09 07:44 AM
  4. Lowsol94's Avatar
    Also to compare a stand alone aircard costs $59.99 per month while a smartphone with the tethering option costs $44.99. Both with EVDO Rev. A capabilities and a 5gb limit. So aren't you already saving with your "unlimited data plan" ($29.99) with tethering option ($15.00)???

    But personally using my only telephone for my only internet connection reminds me of the days of dial up. With a land line and a dial up ISP you'd be paying almost the same amount (in some areas of the country) with extremely limited speeds.
    Last edited by Lowsol94; 03-05-09 at 08:37 AM.
    03-05-09 08:21 AM
  5. RicanMedic78's Avatar
    Also to compare a stand alone aircard costs $59.99 per month while a smartphone with the tethering option costs $44.99. Both with EVDO Rev. A capabilities and a 5gb limit. So aren't you already saving with your "unlimited data plan" ($29.99) with tethering option ($15.00)???

    But personally using my only telephone for my internet connection reminds me of the days of dial up. With a land line and a dial up ISP you'd be paying almost the same amount (in some areas of the country) with extremely limited speeds.

    no, $29.99 for BIS + $15 for tethering is reasonable. As it stands, its $29.99 for BIS and an additional $29.99 for tethering. That is unreasonable when taking into perspective cost/convenience compared to other options. Now, everyone is different and desires are different. But logically, this price cannot be marketable for the masses by any means...
    Last edited by RicanMedic78; 03-05-09 at 08:39 AM.
    03-05-09 08:37 AM
  6. snork's Avatar
    I can't see many people really dropping their home ISPs for their BB connection.

    Keep in mind that if you have even so much as 2 people living in a home, it's not functional for tethering to be your primary internet connection since your blackberry has to be home to connect to the internet. I'm sure my girlfriend would just love having to wait till I get home so she can get online. She doesn't use a blackberry herself so getting her a tethering plan as well would cost an extra $60/month.. pretty much the same price as a 20down/5up fios connection.

    Families, College students living together and many others would agree. Complain all you want about VZWs rates, but really, the pricing is not unfair at all.

    I pay ~$75/month for my phone. I do get a company discount, but even so, without that it would be ~85-90/month. I've looked into other companies, and nobody can offer something thats noticeably less than what I pay with VZW.

    ATT has an identical pricing structure
    T-Mobile can save me about $5/month
    Sprint is pretty much identical as well. it would only be cheaper if i needed unlimited minutes.

    sure we all hate paying bills, but its a fact of life. just remember a cell phone isnt required. heck ive had a cell phone for less than 10 years. 20 years ago it was rare to even know someone who had a cell phone.

    its all about convenience. how much do you value your time? do you want to have to find a Wi-Fi spot every time you need to check your email? what if you're skiing out west but waiting on an important call. do you want to sit in the lodge until you get that call? wouldn't it be better to just pull off to the side of a trail to take the call rather than waste a day? I dont know about you, but the time i save not having to go home or to a hot spot to check my email, stocks, weather, bank accounts, etc etc etc is worth much more than the measley $75 a month I pay for my phone.
    03-05-09 09:11 AM
  7. pkcable's Avatar
    I'm sick of being rapped by this thread! Ok so why do I keep reading it! lol
    03-05-09 12:21 PM
  8. RicanMedic78's Avatar
    I can't see many people really dropping their home ISPs for their BB connection.

    Keep in mind that if you have even so much as 2 people living in a home, it's not functional for tethering to be your primary internet connection since your blackberry has to be home to connect to the internet. I'm sure my girlfriend would just love having to wait till I get home so she can get online. She doesn't use a blackberry herself so getting her a tethering plan as well would cost an extra $60/month.. pretty much the same price as a 20down/5up fios connection.

    Families, College students living together and many others would agree. Complain all you want about VZWs rates, but really, the pricing is not unfair at all.

    I pay ~$75/month for my phone. I do get a company discount, but even so, without that it would be ~85-90/month. I've looked into other companies, and nobody can offer something thats noticeably less than what I pay with VZW.

    ATT has an identical pricing structure
    T-Mobile can save me about $5/month
    Sprint is pretty much identical as well. it would only be cheaper if i needed unlimited minutes.

    sure we all hate paying bills, but its a fact of life. just remember a cell phone isnt required. heck ive had a cell phone for less than 10 years. 20 years ago it was rare to even know someone who had a cell phone.

    its all about convenience. how much do you value your time? do you want to have to find a Wi-Fi spot every time you need to check your email? what if you're skiing out west but waiting on an important call. do you want to sit in the lodge until you get that call? wouldn't it be better to just pull off to the side of a trail to take the call rather than waste a day? I dont know about you, but the time i save not having to go home or to a hot spot to check my email, stocks, weather, bank accounts, etc etc etc is worth much more than the measley $75 a month I pay for my phone.
    it might not be worth it for 2 people. Or.... if the rates were more practical, as in lets say... $15 extra, then maybe the $30 would be worth it for 2 devices. Either way, there are couples, singles, whatever! Not for me to judge. I only speak of the benefit of the tethering and cost verses free wifi, land connections, and alternatives out there. it looks to me as if tethering is something they want to make money on, they need to make it practical for the masses. There's only a small nitch of people that need tethering so much that they are willing to incurr the charge for it. Basically, there's only a small nitch of places where it is beneficial... then again, I'm in NYC where wifi is plentiful everywhere I go. But regardless, in my mind, tethering taking over ISPs would be the way to go, just like cell phones are taking over land lines
    Last edited by RicanMedic78; 03-05-09 at 12:48 PM.
    03-05-09 12:44 PM
  9. gotblackberry's Avatar
    see, I'm no marketing person, but I'm wiling to bet that there are people that would replace their home ISP for tethering because of their limited need for internet (e.g. basic e-mail/browsing). And at a competitive price with on the go features which tethering provides, as a laymen, I can see a huge market for it. Plus, the 5gb cap can always kill the desires of say... your local gamers... So thats sort of a mute point.
    You can get basic DSL in your house for $20/month w/ Verizon. Also, you also have to remember when we slash prices, we also have to slash towers, jobs, coverage, upgrading speed etc.

    no, $29.99 for BIS + $15 for tethering is reasonable. As it stands, its $29.99 for BIS and an additional $29.99 for tethering. That is unreasonable when taking into perspective cost/convenience compared to other options. Now, everyone is different and desires are different. But logically, this price cannot be marketable for the masses by any means...
    It's not unreasonable because you have NO IDEA how much it costs to transmit bandwidth over a wireless network versus CABLES IN THE GROUND. You keep comparing it to home connections when they CAN NOT be compared. Geez you sound like a little complaining child.
    03-05-09 02:34 PM
  10. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    I'm sick of being rapped by this thread! Ok so why do I keep reading it! lol
    Who is rapping on you? Let me at 'em. LET ME AT 'EM!!!

    Geez you sound like a little complaining child.
    It's about time you got out of bed. We can't hold down the fort without you.


    I'd like to ask this: If you want to replace your home broadband connection with a wireless one, why not get satellite? It is available in most areas. Oh wait, where mobile broadband is available through satellite carriers, it is very expensive, available only while stationary or full of signal hiccups.

    LTE may solve some of these issues, but it isn't yet available. Oh wait - it is VZW pushing for LTE and expanded services.

    Just don't complain when more service equates to a higher price.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    03-05-09 03:14 PM
  11. gotblackberry's Avatar
    I'm so excited for LTE. It's going to be amazing.

    It's about time you got out of bed. We can't hold down the fort without you.
    I know, sorry! I overslept
    03-05-09 03:28 PM
  12. RicanMedic78's Avatar
    You can get basic DSL in your house for $20/month w/ Verizon. Also, you also have to remember when we slash prices, we also have to slash towers, jobs, coverage, upgrading speed etc.
    Not if u end up with more customers in the process.



    It's not unreasonable because you have NO IDEA how much it costs to transmit bandwidth over a wireless network versus CABLES IN THE GROUND. You keep comparing it to home connections when they CAN NOT be compared. Geez you sound like a little complaining child.
    i'm not comparing cost of land verse wireless. I'm just stating that with the wealth of alternatives, especially free alternatives out there and the high price for tethering, it makes it worth it for a VERY small group of people. If they slash prices but gain more customers, then it can offset the slash in price and keep it realistically available for the masses.

    This is the exact argument for price reductions that allow wireless plans to be the primary home phone. The difference is that voice plans have gone down in price throughout the past 10 years, but tethering has gone up!
    03-05-09 08:48 PM
  13. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    Not if u end up with more customers in the process.
    Bad analysis there, Einstein. Bandwidth & traffic on any network is finite. You add more customers & you then have to add more network. More network means more cost.

    Can your local telco offer you two lines for less than one? No, they can't.



    i'm not comparing cost of land verse wireless.
    Then why did you bring up landlines?
    I'm just stating that with the wealth of alternatives, especially free alternatives out there and the high price for tethering, it makes it worth it for a VERY small group of people. If they slash prices but gain more customers, then it can offset the slash in price and keep it realistically available for the masses.
    What would happen if Rolex started mass producing? Quality goes down. What would happen if Ferrari started mass producing? The cache would be gone. This isn't the issue with wireless, but it does illustrate that anyone who thinks everyone should be able to have anything anyone else has is a real buffoon who doesn't know their **** from a hole in the ground.

    This is the exact argument for price reductions that allow wireless plans to be the primary home phone. The difference is that voice plans have gone down in price throughout the past 10 years, but tethering has gone up!
    It is called competition and bandwidth management. I can put 25 phone lines on a wireless network for about the same amount of bandwidth as one smartphone user. The competition would do it, therefore I must do it too, but since I am a responsible. profit-oriented company and not a charity, nor one that bows to socialist leaning punks, there has to be limits... just like the competition has.

    Did you know that in some areas, you cannot connect on Sprint 12% of the times you try? AT&T is around 5%. T-mobile is just below 5%. VZW is @ 99%+ across their entire network.

    Get your satellite or go to Sprint. Make sure you read their fine print before you tether on them, as they are much harder on you than is VZW.
    03-05-09 09:21 PM
  14. RicanMedic78's Avatar
    Then why did you bring up landlines?
    Because wireless worth and viability depends on the expense and the limitations of those landlines.
    03-05-09 10:40 PM
  15. verizonworker's Avatar
    okay i work for verizon and will be as unbiased as i can be with this answer.. for the most part be careful whenever you switch your plan.. do not think you can switch ur price plan in the middle of your billing cycle and not get prorated charges.. realize that EVERY company charges you one month in advance.. READ YOUR BILL.. check how many minutes you actually use every month.. if youre not using as much as you thought you were call in and have a representative assist you in getting you on the correct plan.. anyone heard about the friends and family option yet? if you have a single plan with 900 or more you can have up to 5 numbers that you can call to outside of the verizon network.. yes it is a little tmobile ish with myfaves and alltell my circle.. but hey its a great service.. also if you are on a family plan you get up to 10 people.. any 10 numbers in the us.. including home numbers and 800 numbers.. if you are already on a qualifying plan you can start it right away online by logging into your account..

    okay i understand why everyone is complaining about the whole blackberry internet plan that is needed with the phone.. but seriously.. dont get a blackberry if you dont plan on using its features..

    just to clarify the whole ETF thing.. this is in your contract as "UP TO 175" .. which means that the closer you get to your contract the cheaper your ETF is.. as for TMO you can be 1 month away and you still have to pay 200.

    and your 450 minutes plan.. if you are on a basic plan without any txt msgs is only 39.99.. add 20 dollars and you have unlimited txt msging.. so yes it gets pricey.. but seriously what are you expecting? nothing comes for free..
    are you expecting roll over minutes? quite honestly thats a useless product as well.. your minutes expire in 1 year.. and if you had a high plan and switch down to a lower plan.. you lose all of your minutes except what is equivalent to the price plan you changed to..

    as far as them crippling the devices.. you also have to take into consideration that the more options your phone comes with.. the higher the price for it is.. manufacturers visit us often.. and they hear that question a lot as well.. and they tell us the same thing.. the more that is included in the phone.. means more money...

    also.. check the status of your account.. ask if you are a VIP customer.. if you are.. you qualify to have 100% overage credit applied to your account every 12 months just in case you go over your minutes or your text messages...


    did i also mention that if you do go over your minutes.. the representative may do what is called a "rerate" which means its a possibility they will credit your overages if you change to a priceplan that would have covered it?

    c'mon give us a break.. the company offers alot.. but most people only see the negative.. they don't take into consideration what can be done for them.. and what has already been done for them..

    take the jump and go to another carrier.. compare the difference.. if you return within 90 days youll get your ETF credited back to you...
    03-06-09 03:51 AM
  16. verizonworker's Avatar
    Very true. Bandwidth is finite.

    Also, in reference to your comment on gaming, you can blow 5GB in an hour on some games. World of Warcraft & Everquest come to mind there.

    To allow this type of activity would overload the network & seriously degrade service. Mobile phone service isn't fiber, it isn't cable, it isn't T1/T3. It isn't even ISDN.

    Something many don't realize. The TDMA protocol that is the basis of GSM has a hard capacity limit. Reach that limit, as happens all too frequently on GSM carriers and you get a network busy intercept - in other words, try your call again later. CDMA, since it is fully digital, starts with a capacity limit far higher than GSM/TDMA, and when that limit is reached, it begins to compress the signals to allow for more traffic - a soft limit on its capacity. If the traffic reaches overload, the call quality will degrade to nearly a point where it is unusable. Before this point is reached, calls will be automatically handed off to adjacent cells. This is one reason CDMA is more reliable than GSM. Now imagine if data access were opened up - you'd not be able to make calls much of the day until the carrier put up more towers. Put up more towers without an increase in revenue & the prices go up for everyone.

    Again, bandwidth is finite. Wishing for things available only through a bigger pipeline is silly.

    BTW - it appears Sprint will be going WiMAX. As such, it will be cutting its lifeline with VZW. Their stock has taken a beating over this decision, as Sprint doesn't have the capital to pull it off.

    Telling me what Sprint charges or promises is irrelevant. Sprint is fading quickly into the realm of being completely irrelevant, as even T-Mobile will be eating Sprint's lunch shortly.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    wow what an explanation.. !! but this is all very true.. to keep it simple.. if there is no 5GB cap.. the network will crash.. then you people will complain that its not working correctly..

    many of my customers do not understand when i tell them this is NOT made for streaming!!! althought verizon invests millions of dollars on their network every few months.. the space is limited.. this is the same reason why verizon will only keep the content of your text messages on the network for a maximum of 3 days.. then its gone..
    03-06-09 04:02 AM
  17. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    the space is limited..
    The four truest words spoken when referring to bandwidth.

    These guys keep trying to use conservative economics to push a liberal agenda. I keep hearing posters claim "if they lower the prices, more people will be a customer and revenue will increase!" This works with taxes & the economy, where human ingenuity has no bounds. It does not work for technologically finite resources, like bandwidth.

    Say the movie theater cuts ticket prices in half. More people will come, right? The problem is that the movie house only has so many seats. Where will they put the added masses? Will those masses tolerate standing room only (lower call quality)? What of the ones who paid for their ticket, but who cannot get in (can't connect calls)? How about those in seats who now cannot see the screen for half the movie because someone blocks their view (dropped calls)? These people will complain, demand their money back & go to the competition - much like many Sprint & AT&T customers do now. The increase in customers is lost, some loyal customers leave & reputation is tarnished.

    Our 200-seat theater which was selling 190 tickets to each showing got a short-lived increase to 326 tickets, but at what cost? One of two things: 1) They left the lower prices intact and the previously loved theatre is now regarded as a cut-rate discount venue. It is dirty, as employee morale has dropped, due to being overwhelmed by the traffis and the fact bargain shoppers scream louder when they think they aren't getting what they paid for. Those wanting a nice movie experience now stay away. OR 2) A week after all returned to normal and prices are restored to previous levels, ticket sales are no longer at 190, but closer to 139 as many from the week before have found another theater that gives them what they want. Employees are laid off, because revenues are down.

    At least in the movie theater business, those who go down the street aren't locked into one or two year contracts.

    Without major & extremely costly infrastructure investments & additional licenses, adding many more customers is impossible, without sacrificing quality and service. Those infrastructure upgrades, where possible, are fiscally responsible at current pricing or possibly slight reductions due to competitive pressures. Then you must also take into consideration the hurdles to infrastructure upgrades - frequency/use licenses, zoning & other local restrictions on towers & tower placement, geography & land acquisition. There are times when a company wants to increase service/capacity, but outside forces, like municipalities, community groups & green lobbies block it/slow it/change it. Over a third of all tower locations are stopped and over half are challenged.

    Pay special attention to towers - they don't all look like towers anymore. We build them to look like saguaro cacti, gradient paint them to match the background regardless of the viewing angle, make them hospitable to birds & squirrels, just to reduce (not eliminate) opposition.

    While I don't advocate trashing the entire skyline with cell towers, regulations and legal actions can increase the cost of placing a new tower by over 500%.

    If you want an uncluttered horizon, throw away all of your radios, pay for CATV & wireline & look at the sky.

    So, to increase bandwidth to accomodate the increased traffic, we need more frequencies, reduced regulation, less environmental opposition & new technology solutions.

    To simply say REDUCE PRICE & THEY WILL COME is overly simplistic, shortsighted and, quite frankly, ignorant.

    Posted from my proudly VZW CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    03-06-09 10:24 AM
  18. wheelman02's Avatar
    but tethering has gone up!

    Honestly, what's a dollar a day? To have the mobile solution that you aren't required to keep, (i.e. not contract based) that would allow you to be at an airport on a SECURE connection so you can pay last minute bills before your vacation to Vegas, or make sure the power bill is caught up? All without the fear of the creepy guy who looks like he lives in his grandmothers basement next to you, being able to jack all of your information through WI-FI.

    Have 2 fewer cheeseburger combo meals, 2 fewer latte's, and see one less movie at a theater, and VIOLA! You have paid for your tethering, as well as lost 5 pounds, you don't have the jitters, and haven't added any success to the bloody Jonas Brothers.
    03-06-09 11:52 AM
  19. RicanMedic78's Avatar
    still doesnt take away from the fact that tethering has gone UP in a decade
    Last edited by RicanMedic78; 03-06-09 at 12:10 PM.
    03-06-09 12:06 PM
  20. RicanMedic78's Avatar
    in response to verizonworker, good post. However, the only part I disagree with is the crippling of the device and what cost money. Leaving the GPS unlocked to allow 3rd party apps does not cost money. Monopoly practices imprint a reputation on your business, and that is why manufacturers are coming to you with that mindset in place. NZ Navigator is being monopolized by your company and that is the bottom line.

    I'm a very reasonable consumer and I will not hesitate to agree with u or anyone about the positives of Verizon, but I will never forget the negatives and wont sugarcoat it in place of those positives
    03-06-09 12:10 PM
  21. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    Have 2 fewer cheeseburger combo meals, 2 fewer latte's, and see one less movie at a theater, and VIOLA!
    But without those viola lessons (and guitar & piano), the kids will really hurt my ears!

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    03-06-09 12:41 PM
  22. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    Hey Rican - we've already established that you can take a VZW software phone to another carrier & the GPS works - so it isn't the chip being locked. VZW isn't allowing unapproved applications to access their network.

    With your argument, maybe we should get after AT&T & Sprint for not allowing access to VZNav & VCast? Let's get on VZW for not allowing SprintTV. We might have some fun with RIM for not allowing me to dual-boot my BlackBerry into Palm. Then there is the eternal PC/Mac thing.

    Learn what you're talking about before you speak and especially before you repeat it over & over again. Oh wait, you need to demononstrate the ability to comprehend the English language & sufficiently reason to learn - you've not yet done either.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    03-06-09 01:02 PM
  23. gotblackberry's Avatar
    still doesnt take away from the fact that tethering has gone UP in a decade
    That's because TAXES have gone up. Government regulation has increased, SPEED has increased - subscribers have increased -- which means less bandwidth unless we expand. So what does VzW do? We use PROFIT and EXPAND the network so it will be more reliable, faster, and more people can use it.
    03-06-09 02:15 PM
  24. gotblackberry's Avatar
    Not if u end up with more customers in the process.
    Even if you end up with more customers, if you're running at cost or only for a little profit you have no money to expand. No money to improve. Having the most customers does not automatically mean a great business (Can I point out AIG? The largest insurance company in the world who has been bailed out count it 1-2-3- times?)

    i'm not comparing cost of land verse wireless. I'm just stating that with the wealth of alternatives, especially free alternatives out there and the high price for tethering, it makes it worth it for a VERY small group of people. If they slash prices but gain more customers, then it can offset the slash in price and keep it realistically available for the masses.
    What's a free alternative to tethering or DSL? Please let me know! We're not trying to mass market tethering. Verizon Wireless is a cell phone company. We have extra benefits that customers who need it use. I've told people NOT to get aircards before because it's not for them.

    This is the exact argument for price reductions that allow wireless plans to be the primary home phone. The difference is that voice plans have gone down in price throughout the past 10 years, but tethering has gone up!
    That's because voice calls still use the same basic technology. The only thing that has changed is we have more coverage. Tethering is constantly evolving, adding speed, coverage, and trying to increase the number of people we allow to use the service at one time.

    56k has gone down too, but DSL/Cable is still expensive if you want internet.
    03-06-09 02:20 PM
  25. TwinsX2Dad's Avatar
    That's because TAXES have gone up. Government regulation has increased, SPEED has increased - subscribers have increased -- which means less bandwidth unless we expand. So what does VzW do? We use PROFIT and EXPAND the network so it will be more reliable, faster, and more people can use it.
    Why do we even bother? The guy has shown zero ability or desire to understand the simplest of telecom use.

    The only reasons I unblocked his posts is because everyone keeps quoting his, he seems to like following my posts and it might be a good thing to refute his drivel before newbies take what he says as truth.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    03-06-09 02:22 PM
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