07-18-15 12:26 AM
28 12
tools
  1. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    I'm thinking of switching from AT&T to TMobile. I live in the DC area. My wife and I have unlock able AT&T issued Z10s.

    I'm wondering if I'll be happy with the coverage and LTE bands available.

    I know that TMobile will let us try out their network, but I'd love to hear in advance about anyone else's experience.

    Posted via CB10
    07-14-15 01:59 PM
  2. raino's Avatar
    I don't own a Z10 -5, but I own a Q10 -5 which has the same band set as the Z10, and it works great on TMO's networks. I would really recommend you do the Test Drive before you switch, though: T-Mobile Test Drive | Try our 4G LTE Network for Free

    The only TMO band the Z10 -3 (or any BB phone, for that matter) is missing is LTE band 12. But TMO does not have a b12 network in nearly as many places as they do a b4 or b2 LTE network.
    07-14-15 02:09 PM
  3. scrannel's Avatar
    I have a Z10 - 3 on Tmo. Get back to DC once in a while, and unless something has changed, don't recall connection issues, but also can't say if I was on LTE. One question: have your phones been upgraded to 10.3.2? If so, you can't use wifi-calling.
    07-14-15 10:33 PM
  4. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    One question: have your phones been upgraded to 10.3.2? If so, you can't use wifi-calling.
    Yes, upgraded OTA with AT&T. However, since I can't use WiFi calling with AT&T either, I could live with that.

    Posted via CB10
    07-15-15 12:58 AM
  5. scrannel's Avatar
    Yes, upgraded OTA with AT&T. However, since I can't use WiFi calling with AT&T either, I could live with that.

    Posted via CB10
    We're presuming T-mo will have an update with a 10.3.2 that will allow WFC. It's a great feature.
    07-15-15 04:06 AM
  6. jelp2's Avatar
    Yes, upgraded OTA with AT&T. However, since I can't use WiFi calling with AT&T either, I could live with that.

    Posted via CB10
    You may be able to live without wifi calling on Att but with TMO you may run into some instances where you will need it. That being said, I would think the DC area is well covered being a metro area as well as a tourist area. Now outside of it in more rural areas, that's another question.
    07-15-15 09:19 AM
  7. lactose's Avatar
    I like TMO better in every way. Of course make sure they have coverage in your area ?
    One thing I don't get to with TMO since changing companies:
    Cell provider: Pay your past due bill or else !!!!
    Me: (now wasting time searching my banking records...)
    Me: But I sent the check and you cashed it on the 3rd !
    Cell provider: Pay your past due bill or else !!!!
    07-15-15 11:19 AM
  8. Denise in Los Angeles's Avatar
    Here is something I don't get about the online T-Mo billing site.
    Site: Click here to pay ahead on your Equipment Installment Plan.
    Me: Hey, last month I paid ahead on my EIP, but the extra amount was applied to my monthly service bill.
    Customer Service: We always apply the payment first to the monthly service bill.
    Site: Click here to pay ahead on your Equipment Installment Plan.

    Shouldn't that button tell me that the extra amount is NOT going to my EIP?
    07-15-15 11:43 AM
  9. raino's Avatar
    Here is something I don't get about the online T-Mo billing site.
    Site: Click here to pay ahead on your Equipment Installment Plan.
    Me: Hey, last month I paid ahead on my EIP, but the extra amount was applied to my monthly service bill.
    Customer Service: We always apply the payment first to the monthly service bill.
    Site: Click here to pay ahead on your Equipment Installment Plan.

    Shouldn't that button tell me that the extra amount is NOT going to my EIP?
    Yeah, that's weird. Would going to a store and paying there work? I hope it's not hard coded into their system everywhere.
    07-15-15 12:24 PM
  10. anon(7808135)'s Avatar
    I'm thinking of switching from AT&T to TMobile. I live in the DC area. My wife and I have unlock able AT&T issued Z10s.

    I'm wondering if I'll be happy with the coverage and LTE bands available.

    I know that TMobile will let us try out their network, but I'd love to hear in advance about anyone else's experience.

    Posted via CB10
    The Z10 model is the exact same as the ATT model Z10. 100-3 model so you'll get the same exact service on T-Mobile with way better speeds!

    Posted with my Z10 and future Classic
    07-15-15 02:03 PM
  11. Denise in Los Angeles's Avatar
    Yeah, that's weird. Would going to a store and paying there work? I hope it's not hard coded into their system everywhere.
    I've never paid in the store, so I have no clue on that one. I try to avoid going in the store unless I absolutely have to.
    raino likes this.
    07-15-15 02:34 PM
  12. jelp2's Avatar
    The Z10 model is the exact same as the ATT model Z10. 100-3 model so you'll get the same exact service on T-Mobile with way better speeds!

    Posted with my Z10 and future Classic
    There are 2 100-3 models. I don't know which one Att brands as theirs but to use TMO LTE you need the model RFK121LW
    07-15-15 04:03 PM
  13. raino's Avatar
    The Z10 model is the exact same as the ATT model Z10. 100-3 model so you'll get the same exact service on T-Mobile with way better speeds!
    *YMMV*

    There are 2 100-3 models. I don't know which one Att brands as theirs but to use TMO LTE you need the model RFK121LW
    AT&T sold the RFF91LW. LTE on TMO was never in doubt; the question initially was about AWS 3G/'4G'--the 91LW did not list a UMTS 1700 band in the documentation. But through brave CBers' testing in the US and Canada, it was determined that the 91LW too had the UMTS 1700 band. It was just "hidden" to non-AWS carrier SIMs.
    lift likes this.
    07-15-15 04:10 PM
  14. joecool1029's Avatar
    There are 2 100-3 models. I don't know which one Att brands as theirs but to use TMO LTE you need the model RFK121LW
    No you don't. This is misinformation. I have owned 2 100-3 models, both RFF91LW's. One unbranded and unlocked, the other AT&T branded and unlocked. They both work fine on T-Mobile on all LTE bands (except of course Band 12).

    The spec sheets say RFF91LW is missing AWS (UMTS 1700 Band 4) for 3G, but it works once you unlock the phone. Widely reported across the forums.
    raino likes this.
    07-15-15 04:24 PM
  15. Ozziemints's Avatar
    I was just in Maryland/DC, no issues. Had full bars most of the trip. Wifi worked great at the hotel and wherever they had it.

    Posted via CB10
    07-15-15 06:31 PM
  16. gariac's Avatar
    No you don't. This is misinformation. I have owned 2 100-3 models, both RFF91LW's. One unbranded and unlocked, the other AT&T branded and unlocked. They both work fine on T-Mobile on all LTE bands (except of course Band 12).

    The spec sheets say RFF91LW is missing AWS (UMTS 1700 Band 4) for 3G, but it works once you unlock the phone. Widely reported across the forums.
    My recollection was the FCC product database put both phones in the same file, so I think they are the same.

    I wish I saved the enabled bands when I had a Cricket sim. I didn't realize there would be one less band. All I can tell you is the phone reset itself a bunch of times with the Cricket sim.

    Posted via CB10
    07-15-15 10:49 PM
  17. modifier's Avatar
    All Z10 STL100-3 variants have the same bands available at the hardware level. I've used both the RFF91LW and RFK121LW on 1700MHz UMTS and know with absolute certainty that they work equally.

    Regardless, for anyone switching to T-Mobile, please know that they are actively killing off 1700MHz UMTS in favor of LTE upgrades so the UMTS Band 4 issue is moot at this point. There's no reason to own or seek out a phone with UMTS 4 as it will soon be a dinosaur.

    [CB10 / Q10]
    raino likes this.
    07-16-15 12:37 AM
  18. gariac's Avatar
    All Z10 STL100-3 variants have the same bands available at the hardware level. I've used both the RFF91LW and RFK121LW on 1700MHz UMTS and know with absolute certainty that they work equally.

    Regardless, for anyone switching to T-Mobile, please know that they are actively killing off 1700MHz UMTS in favor of LTE upgrades so the UMTS Band 4 issue is moot at this point. There's no reason to own or seek out a phone with UMTS 4 as it will soon be a dinosaur.

    [CB10 / Q10]
    But we have the issue of no VoLTE. I believe the opinion of "the hive" is that the phone can do VoLTE but Tmo is not allowing it. My phone goes to 4G for voice calls.

    I'm in the process of going to the back alley and loading the latest OS. I just spent a ridiculous amount of time doing all the updates on a win7 partition. When you don't use windows routinely, those updates are a pain.

    Posted via CB10
    07-16-15 01:10 AM
  19. jelp2's Avatar
    *YMMV*



    AT&T sold the RFF91LW. LTE on TMO was never in doubt; the question initially was about AWS 3G/'4G'--the 91LW did not list a UMTS 1700 band in the documentation. But through brave CBers' testing in the US and Canada, it was determined that the 91LW too had the UMTS 1700 band. It was just "hidden" to non-AWS carrier SIMs.
    Oh, interesting. I haven't heard that. Good to know, wish I knew that back when I was looking for a Z10 on ebay many months ago. Would have saved a lot of time!
    07-16-15 07:50 AM
  20. modifier's Avatar
    But we have the issue of no VoLTE. I believe the opinion of "the hive" is that the phone can do VoLTE but Tmo is not allowing it. My phone goes to 4G for voice calls.

    I'm in the process of going to the back alley and loading the latest OS. I just spent a ridiculous amount of time doing all the updates on a win7 partition. When you don't use windows routinely, those updates are a pain.
    Not to get off-topic here but VoLTE should show as being present in your current BB10 OS via escreen. T-Mobile, to my knowledge, wouldn't require specific OS versions for VoLTE to function as this would be a logistical nightmare. Instead, it should be a network feature as designed.

    Are you able to get VoLTE service in your area using a different phone (an iPhone 6, for example) but unable to get it on your Z10? Or, is there no VoLTE service in your area?

    [CB10 / Q10]
    07-16-15 08:34 AM
  21. raino's Avatar
    Regardless, for anyone switching to T-Mobile, please know that they are actively killing off 1700MHz UMTS in favor of LTE upgrades so the UMTS Band 4 issue is moot at this point. There's no reason to own or seek out a phone with UMTS 4 as it will soon be a dinosaur.
    Recently they announced some UMTS 1700 network shutdowns but all of them looked to be in markets where this network was redundant because of overlapping UMTS 1900 coverage (or the UMTS 1700 phone owner base is so small that they're willing to swap their phones out at company's expense and then re-farm.)
    07-16-15 12:18 PM
  22. gariac's Avatar
    Not to get off-topic here but VoLTE should show as being present in your current BB10 OS via escreen. T-Mobile, to my knowledge, wouldn't require specific OS versions for VoLTE to function as this would be a logistical nightmare. Instead, it should be a network feature as designed.

    Are you able to get VoLTE service in your area using a different phone (an iPhone 6, for example) but unable to get it on your Z10? Or, is there no VoLTE service in your area?

    [CB10 / Q10]
    The VoLTE under the IMS tab looks mostly blank. It could be my OS rev.

    Posted via CB10
    07-16-15 02:07 PM
  23. joecool1029's Avatar
    But we have the issue of no VoLTE. I believe the opinion of "the hive" is that the phone can do VoLTE but Tmo is not allowing it. My phone goes to 4G for voice calls.

    I'm in the process of going to the back alley and loading the latest OS. I just spent a ridiculous amount of time doing all the updates on a win7 partition. When you don't use windows routinely, those updates are a pain.
    The phones can do voLTE. The prevailing theory seems to be that it needs to be enabled in the OS and it needs to be IMEI whitelisted by T-Mobile.

    Also, just use Sachesi. It works on all major OS. Unless you absolutely needed to use an autoloader. I update my phones all the time from Linux.

    My recollection was the FCC product database put both phones in the same file, so I think they are the same.

    I wish I saved the enabled bands when I had a Cricket sim. I didn't realize there would be one less band. All I can tell you is the phone reset itself a bunch of times with the Cricket sim.
    No clue on the resets. I have an AT&T sim in my last Z10 right now (the unbranded one). All the bands show in the about screen. I'll screenshot it in a few days if this thread is still active, (gave the phone to a parent after I got a passport)

    Recently they announced some UMTS 1700 network shutdowns but all of them looked to be in markets where this network was redundant because of overlapping UMTS 1900 coverage (or the UMTS 1700 phone owner base is so small that they're willing to swap their phones out at company's expense and then re-farm.)
    The entire reason for the Band4 UMTS shutdowns are due to spectrum constraints in some markets. Indianapolis (10+10mhz band4 license) was such a market that did not have enough spectrum to deploy Band4 LTE on more than 5+5mhz (HSPA requires 5+5mhz, 10+10mhz if DC-HSPA+). Moving HSPA to PCS there just made sense so they could run LTE on 10+10 of Band4 AWS and deal with less congestion.

    Now markets like NYC have *no* reason to shutdown Band4 anytime soon. They run a DC-HSPA+ network on band4 AND a Band2 HSPA network in addition to 15+15 wideband LTE that's almost surely soon to be 20+20 (they already shifted the band down with the shutdown of metroPCS's CDMA band).

    So yeah Band4 HSPA+ is still useful. Rural areas in NJ seem to be doing some weird stuff where they only run Band4 HSPA+, Band2 LTE (5mhz), and GSM of course on the 1900mhz. Not fun when you use something like my crappy early at&t iphone5 that kicks from LTE to GSM to make calls in these areas.

    small note: I'm aware HSPA+ can run on slightly smaller amounts of spectrum like 4.2mhz per carrier. T-Mo had been doing this in NYC to fit metropcs's legacy cdma band in AWS until a few weeks ago. Now I assume they are up to the full 5mhz. But I don't own a spectrum analyzer and BB phones don't report if using things like DC-HSPA+, the LTE information is a lot more verbose.

    note #2: NYC has 25+25mhz of AWS licensed. So they will likely go to 20+20mhz LTE and move from DC-HSPA to HSPA there. So that market will have HSPA on both bands (I doubt they'll put LTE on Band2 with only 10+10mhz available. They want a 5mhz HSPA carrier and GSM).
    Last edited by joecool1029; 07-16-15 at 03:59 PM.
    modifier and raino like this.
    07-16-15 03:32 PM
  24. raino's Avatar
    Moving HSPA to PCS there just made sense so they could run LTE on 10+10 of Band4 AWS and deal with less congestion.
    Parsing here: when you say "moving HSPA to PCS," you don't mean they're re-farming 2G to HSPA+ here, right? They're just choosing to keep the existing PCS HSPA+ up and free up AWS for LTE?
    07-16-15 08:15 PM
  25. joecool1029's Avatar
    Parsing here: when you say "moving HSPA to PCS," you don't mean they're re-farming 2G to HSPA+ here, right? They're just choosing to keep the existing PCS HSPA+ up and free up AWS for LTE?
    Correct, they are likely already running something like 5mhz for hspa+ and 5mhz for GSM in that market on PCS. The change only affected AWS. The split might be a little different depending on how many GSM users they have, hspa+ can be configured as low as 3.8mhz so you can run GSM or CDMA in the guard band, which is what had to happen in NYC prior to metropcs CDMA shutdown. It's also how at&t fits its GSM in that market.

    Posted via CB10
    raino likes this.
    07-16-15 09:54 PM
28 12

Similar Threads

  1. This might be a dumb question, but I am desperate ;)
    By jeanholton1 in forum Verizon Wireless
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: 08-15-15, 03:12 PM
  2. OSMAND can't install on 10.3.2.2339?
    By chris.r. in forum BlackBerry 10 OS
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 07-15-15, 04:37 PM
  3. Z10 lag on YouTube
    By BB fan forever in forum Ask a Question
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 07-15-15, 02:29 AM
  4. Developer edition Z10
    By Jamie Wooten in forum Buy, Sell, Trade - Sold / Archived
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 07-14-15, 09:31 PM
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD