05-20-19 11:02 PM
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  1. Crusader03's Avatar
    We have seen an alarming number of threads here on CB be closed in the past couple of weeks. This to me is alarming. Can someone from CB please offer an explanation for the recent censor activity. Respectfully awaiting reply.
    TheBond, dendron01 and elfabio80 like this.
    04-06-19 10:28 PM
  2. TheBond's Avatar
    Yeah I have noticed too.
    I thought we as a community sit together through thick and thin. We vent out and then try to find workarounds and feel happy about the device.
    04-06-19 11:08 PM
  3. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Thread closures are done only by moderators and those moderators clearly state reason for thread closure. If you have any questions, you can PM the moderator directly.
    Ecm, john_v and Vistaus like this.
    04-07-19 03:45 AM
  4. falbo's Avatar
    Thread closed. Sorry I just couldn't resist ;-)
    04-07-19 04:09 AM
  5. danp2000's Avatar
    Thread closed. Sorry I just couldn't resist ;-)
    This is Fake News!
    Vistaus and MB64 like this.
    04-07-19 06:45 AM
  6. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    I have seen a number of posters hijack discussions with ad hominem attacks and name calling. That is a surefire way to shut down a discussion.

    Trying to discredit a poster to argue against their opinion destroys the civil discourse and openness that makes online forums useful and enjoyable to most (though obviously not all) of us.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    Ecm, john_v and Vistaus like this.
    04-07-19 07:34 AM
  7. dendron01's Avatar
    [Post Deleted by Moderator]
    MB64 likes this.
    04-07-19 08:23 AM
  8. dendron01's Avatar
    On a serious note, I think those of us with a passion for BlackBerry that want a better place to air our concerns and discuss issues that matter to us without being silenced by commercial interests, should consider taking the discussion elsewhere.

    CrackBerry has become the Internet equivalent of an infomercial. Except patrolled by "thought police".

    The r/blackberry Reddit is a good place to air opinions with minimal interference and censorship. Apparently there are also new BBM groups being set up to address this need.

    We can only hope and encourage BlackBerry Mobile / BlackBerry Ltd to set up a REAL support forum where technical issues with their apps can be addressed in a meaningful way - rather than BlackBerry Ltd hiding behind an email account that is never checked or a Beta program that no one would ever consider subscribing to in order to submit comments for non-beta apps.
    04-07-19 08:55 AM
  9. Ecm's Avatar
    Thread closures are done only by moderators and those moderators clearly state reason for thread closure. If you have any questions, you can PM the moderator directly.
    I have seen a number of posters hijack discussions with ad hominem attacks and name calling. That is a surefire way to shut down a discussion.

    Trying to discredit a poster to argue against their opinion destroys the civil discourse and openness that makes online forums useful and enjoyable to most (though obviously not all) of us.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    Correct, Gentlemen.

    It's unfortunate that some members cannot disagree and/or debate without resorting to "labelling" those who hold opposite opinions, or posting outright insults and accusations. The Community R&G that all of us agreed to upon joining the Forums specifically prohibits such behaviour. Moderators are regular members and volunteers, working in the Forums in our own free time (and moments stolen away from our paid gigs). We cannot see every post or thread and sometimes a thread will go off the rails before we are aware of it. When a thread has devolved to pages of bickering and insults, it's obviously past its "best before" date and is often closed. And, as noted, the Moderator will usually leave a final note explaining why.

    As to censorship? If we practiced censorship, this thread would already be gone. Instead, I have moved it to where it belongs (Site Feedback Forum). I certainly don't consider it censorship to ensure that discussions follow the R&G we all agreed to follow. Members are free to post whatever opinion they choose to, as long as they do so while following the R&G.

    If all members were to remember to discuss and debate the TOPIC instead of another member, Moderators could simply spend our efforts on ditching the pain in the *** spam, correcting thread titles, etc.
    04-07-19 09:56 AM
  10. Ecm's Avatar
    On a serious note, I think those of us with a passion for BlackBerry that want a better place to air our concerns and discuss issues that matter to us without being silenced by commercial interests, should consider taking the discussion elsewhere.

    CrackBerry has become the Internet equivalent of an infomercial. Except patrolled by "thought police".
    Beyond the participation of some confirmed BlackBerry representatives, there are no "commercial interests" at work here. I suspect that you may be referring to members with opinions that differ from yours.

    Infomercials? I do agree that those who cherish their BlackBerry devices will certainly speak well of them. But they do not stand to gain anything by having strong, positive opinions. They just love their devices.

    Thought police? Read my previous post, then the R&G. If you cannot abide by those conditions for civil discussions, then CrackBerry isn't likely the best place for you. I wish you well at the Reddit groups. Though my own observations from participating there lead me to believe that insulting or accusing others isn't welcome. Posts have been removed, participants censured.
    04-07-19 10:10 AM
  11. BigBadWulf's Avatar
    On a serious note, I think those of us with a passion for BlackBerry that want a better place to air our concerns and discuss issues that matter to us without being silenced by commercial interests, should consider taking the discussion elsewhere.
    While it's sad to lose members... usually... the Modfia are not hostage takers. Traffic diversion however is a banable offense. That's not censorship, it's good business sense.
    Thud Hardsmack and Rico4you like this.
    04-07-19 10:44 AM
  12. Bob80220's Avatar
    I understand where Ecm is coming from regarding the purpose and function of the Moderators... I am a Moderator and was once an Administrator of a motorcycle Forum. No, it isn't an American brand motorcycle Forum. Being a Moderator is a thankless position and often times it's like herding cats keeping members in line and not in violation of the AUP. I do have to say, CrackBerry as a Forum is like child's play in comparison to the Forum I Moderate.

    That being said, I think one has to be very careful when threads are over moderated by a Moderator. On the Forum I moderate, before a thread is locked up the Moderators and Administrators have a back channel discussion before a thread is locked. It's not solely up to me as a Moderator or any other Moderator. Before a thread is locked we always post in the thread making everyone aware of the consequences if posts in a thread are going in the direction of the thread being locked. We feel it's best to give people a warning first and not unilaterally lock up a thread.

    Additionally, members that push the envelope, don't adhere to the heads up and continue with their behavior that has been noted, get their hands slapped with a warning, be put on limited access, or ultimately get banned. Again, these are decisions made by the group that run the Forum, Administrators and Moderators... not a unilateral decision.

    I feel, although Moderators are necessary, to over moderate a Forum sends the wrong message. Over moderating can be perceived as controlling the content and censorship. I would like to believe that most of us here on CrackBerry are individuals that are here for the common good of the BlackBerry brand. I know that's why I'm here. As individuals we aren't always going to agree... However, we can respectfully disagree and offer our opinions. Otherwise, if our opinions or beliefs are not allowed by a Moderator, or CrackBerry, then these opinions and beliefs are unfortunately being controlled and censored.

    Just my opinion on this topic and I hope as we all move forward we can all play nice with one another.

    Bob
    04-07-19 10:44 AM
  13. dendron01's Avatar
    Correct, Gentlemen.

    It's unfortunate that some members cannot disagree and/or debate without resorting to "labelling" those who hold opposite opinions, or posting outright insults and accusations. The Community R&G that all of us agreed to upon joining the Forums specifically prohibits such behaviour. Moderators are regular members and volunteers, working in the Forums in our own free time (and moments stolen away from our paid gigs). We cannot see every post or thread and sometimes a thread will go off the rails before we are aware of it. When a thread has devolved to pages of bickering and insults, it's obviously past its "best before" date and is often closed. And, as noted, the Moderator will usually leave a final note explaining why.

    As to censorship? If we practiced censorship, this thread would already be gone. Instead, I have moved it to where it belongs (Site Feedback Forum). I certainly don't consider it censorship to ensure that discussions follow the R&G we all agreed to follow. Members are free to post whatever opinion they choose to, as long as they do so while following the R&G.

    If all members were to remember to discuss and debate the TOPIC instead of another member, Moderators could simply spend our efforts on ditching the pain in the *** spam, correcting thread titles, etc.
    Two things I will add to this well mannered attempt (in public, at least) to placate the masses.

    Enforcing the R&G is completely subjective. Furthermore, CB is no longer in control of its own destiny, nor can it claim to be. Nor is Android Central's R&G, which can be updated and changed at any time and is authored, policed, and members reprimanded by the owners of the site and it's cohorts. It is not a justice system or a bill of rights.

    Secondly, the censorship that is occurring -even beyond the initial determination of whether or not it deserved to be considered in violation of the R&G) goes far beyond deleting the post in question or closing threads. The entire chain of conversation is deleted, including replies that may or may not have had anything to do with the "offending" post. Infractions are completely subjective as well, and whether we agree or not is irrelevant because also under the R&G, all Moderator decisions are final. Moderators can also intimidate by PM or email directly to members and are not accountable to anyone.

    Having differences of opinion is one thing. But when the process has been reduced to a cynical INUNDATION of ANY criticism of BlackBerry by "members" using what appears to be the same corporate talking points and excuses, even cut and paste responses using previous posts, interception and swarming by the same "trusted members", a cycle of provocation and reporting, moderator intimidation both in public and behind the scenes - to me, these are all signs of a once public space that has been infected by corporate interests and where individuals are no longer free to participate in an open and honest discussion about the issues at hand.

    It is interesting that you also raised the issue of spam, because I honestly think you and many of the moderators here see anything that is not supportive of what BlackBerry is doing in exactly the same light. Well, guess what? Spam is how we view our legitimate concerns being smokescreened and obfuscated by corporate shills.
    04-07-19 10:47 AM
  14. dendron01's Avatar
    While it's sad to lose members... usually... the Modfia are not hostage takers. Traffic diversion however is a banable offense. That's not censorship, it's good business sense.
    Here we go, more threats from you. That's a first. Is it a bannable offence to talk about Reddit now?
    04-07-19 10:47 AM
  15. conite's Avatar
    Having differences of opinion is one thing. But when the process has been reduced to a cynical INUNDATION of ANY criticism of BlackBerry by "members" using what appears to be the same corporate talking points and excuses, even cut and paste responses using previous posts, interception and swarming by the same "trusted members", a cycle of provocation and reporting, moderator intimidation both in public and behind the scenes - to me, these are all signs of a once public space that has been infected by corporate interests and where individuals are no longer free to participate in an open and honest discussion about the issues at hand.
    Sometimes a rose is just a rose. You are looking for conspiracies where none exist.

    Occam's Razor: instead of what you write here, perhaps some folks simply push past the line of respectful discourse.
    04-07-19 11:00 AM
  16. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Two things I will add to this well mannered attempt (in public, at least) to placate the masses.

    Enforcing the R&G is completely subjective. Furthermore, CB is no longer in control of its own destiny, nor can it claim to be. Nor is Android Central's R&G, which can be updated and changed at any time and is authored, policed, and members reprimanded by the owners of the site and it's cohorts. It is not a justice system or a bill of rights.

    Secondly, the censorship that is occurring -even beyond the initial determination of whether or not it deserved to be considered in violation of the R&G) goes far beyond deleting the post in question or closing threads. The entire chain of conversation is deleted, including replies that may or may not have had anything to do with the "offending" post. Infractions are completely subjective as well, and whether we agree or not is irrelevant because also under the R&G, all Moderator decisions are final. Moderators can also intimidate by PM or email directly to members and are not accountable to anyone.

    Having differences of opinion is one thing. But when the process has been reduced to a cynical INUNDATION of ANY criticism of BlackBerry by "members" using what appears to be the same corporate talking points and excuses, even cut and paste responses using previous posts, interception and swarming by the same "trusted members", a cycle of provocation and reporting, moderator intimidation both in public and behind the scenes - to me, these are all signs of a once public space that has been infected by corporate interests and where individuals are no longer free to participate in an open and honest discussion about the issues at hand.

    It is interesting that you also raised the issue of spam, because I honestly think you and many of the moderators here see anything that is not supportive of what BlackBerry is doing in exactly the same light. Well, guess what? Spam is how we view our legitimate concerns being smokescreened and obfuscated by corporate shills.
    If member you’re referring to is me, I feel insulted that you’d think I’d cut and paste anything. I thoroughly enjoy typing my responses to you and others as well, although that’s just me......

    It may also have to do with the difficulty of cutting and pasting while on mobile devices on the road.....
    04-07-19 11:03 AM
  17. BigBadWulf's Avatar
    Here we go, more threats from you. That's a first. Is it a bannable offence to talk about Reddit now?
    In threads warnings about the rules are meant to keep people following them, so they don't have to be enforced.
    04-07-19 11:23 AM
  18. Thud Hardsmack's Avatar
    Here we go, more threats from you. That's a first. Is it a bannable offence to talk about Reddit now?
    Talking about Reddit is fine. We talk Reddit and other sites every day all day. Attempting to take traffic is called "leaching" and is a ban-worthy offense.
    BigBadWulf likes this.
    04-07-19 11:23 AM
  19. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    I understand where Ecm is coming from regarding the purpose and function of the Moderators... I am a Moderator and was once an Administrator of a motorcycle Forum. No, it isn't an American brand motorcycle Forum. Being a Moderator is a thankless position and often times it's like herding cats keeping members in line and not in violation of the AUP. I do have to say, CrackBerry as a Forum is like child's play in comparison to the Forum I Moderate.

    That being said, I think one has to be very careful when threads are over moderated by a Moderator. On the Forum I moderate, before a thread is locked up the Moderators and Administrators have a back channel discussion before a thread is locked. It's not solely up to me as a Moderator or any other Moderator. Before a thread is locked we always post in the thread making everyone aware of the consequences if posts in a thread are going in the direction of the thread being locked. We feel it's best to give people a warning first and not unilaterally lock up a thread.

    Additionally, members that push the envelope, don't adhere to the heads up and continue with their behavior that has been noted, get their hands slapped with a warning, be put on limited access, or ultimately get banned. Again, these are decisions made by the group that run the Forum, Administrators and Moderators... not a unilateral decision.

    I feel, although Moderators are necessary, to over moderate a Forum sends the wrong message. Over moderating can be perceived as controlling the content and censorship. I would like to believe that most of us here on CrackBerry are individuals that are here for the common good of the BlackBerry brand. I know that's why I'm here. As individuals we aren't always going to agree... However, we can respectfully disagree and offer our opinions. Otherwise, if our opinions or beliefs are not allowed by a Moderator, or CrackBerry, then these opinions and beliefs are unfortunately being controlled and censored.

    Just my opinion on this topic and I hope as we all move forward we can all play nice with one another.

    Bob

    CB moderator system is Praise in Public and Criticize in Private as I’ve been the recipient of many violations, shocking..... right?? I know....... I can assure you if anything reaches a certain level, it’s only after private warnings first, and explanations of the unintended messages or interpretations are provided with discussion allowed privately back and forth between the mods and member. I’ve run the gamut almost to permanent ban so, I only say this, not to brag, however, in explanation that more is allowed here than any other forum I’ve belonged too of any similar fashion. I’m a give me liberty or give me death kind of guy regardless of politics, opinions and religion.

    I’m still here and I still get warnings every so often..... If you don’t get warnings, you’re the dream member....

    Now that you’ve mentioned your experience, you’ll probably get a mod invite..... surely mine is lost in the spam box..... actually, it’ll never happen because of my infraction history I’m sure... but for that, I’m still lucky to be here....
    john_v and BigBadWulf like this.
    04-07-19 11:24 AM
  20. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Sometimes a rose is just a rose. You are looking for conspiracies where none exist.

    Occam's Razor: instead of what you write here, perhaps some folks simply push past the line of respectful discourse.
    If the rose scent is too strong, I’m going to HR and demanding you remove from your cubicle. We have employment rules here in Russia now since Putin and Trump are good friends. Please Comrade, let’s embrace the NWO and it’s conspiracies..... ;-)
    04-07-19 11:28 AM
  21. dendron01's Avatar
    If member you’re referring to is me, I feel insulted that you’d think I’d cut and paste anything. I thoroughly enjoy typing my responses to you and others as well, although that’s just me......

    It may also have to do with the difficulty of cutting and pasting while on mobile devices on the road.....
    Chuck, I am not implying you. But I do think you inadvertently swarm some members comments particularly when they are being critical of BlackBerry - although perhaps not in the same way (and for the same reasons) as the paid one(s).
    04-07-19 11:29 AM
  22. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Chuck, I am not implying you. But I do think you inadvertently swarm some members comments particularly when they are being critical of BlackBerry - although perhaps not in the same way (and for the same reasons) as the paid one(s).
    Now you know why I get warnings....... Simple, I enjoy debating and logic discussions.... The old Jesuits ruined me ...... I’ll play devils advocate because it seems that’s only way I could avoid penance hall back then...
    04-07-19 11:31 AM
  23. dendron01's Avatar
    Talking about Reddit is fine. We talk Reddit and other sites every day all day. Attempting to take traffic is called "leaching" and is a ban-worthy offense.
    And now you are here. I never posted any links. I never attempted to leach anyone. Where is the conspiracy now?

    So the full cast of mods is among us. The threats are piling up. Let's see what happens next...
    04-07-19 11:32 AM
  24. Tim-ANC's Avatar
    Regarding spam, the mods are referring to the auto spam bots that are forever battering at the castle walls of the forum. We've seen them leak through on rare occasions. Multiple replies in Chinese or Korean. The mods spend the majority of their time on this, not pondering whether a sentence we write can be construed as spam.

    I'm a trusted member. I was asked to be one because I try to help people with device problems. Its completely voluntary and I have not been given any sort of agenda nor would I follow one.
    04-07-19 11:32 AM
  25. Bob80220's Avatar

    Now that you’ve mentioned your experience, you’ll probably get a mod invite.....
    Well if I do get a mod invite Chuck, the compensation package will have to be better than the one I am currently receiving...

    Bob
    04-07-19 11:35 AM
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