- Or more correctly, who needs flagship devices? I have been using my inexpensive moto G Power for the last couple weeks as my dd.
I hate the glass kb. (duh).
But most of the rest of it seems just fine. It works. I have low storage issues, but that is a known thing. The expansion seems to mostly work on that. Pretty much only apps must be on native storage. Even then the new phones have more.
Bottom line. I can get 3 or 4 Motos for the price of one pixel pro or Samsung device. So when updates cease. Just move on.
What is important about flagship other than cameras that I do not use much at all. Do we care about colors or plastic, the thing will be in a case anyway. Is screen refresh important if not a gamer?
For whom is a cheaper phone plenty good enough? Since the only deciding factor for me has been the pkb, I am trying to determine what I care about when buying my post bb phone.03-23-22 09:25 AMLike 0 - Or more correctly, who needs flagship devices? I have been using my inexpensive moto G Power for the last couple weeks as my dd.
I hate the glass kb. (duh).
But most of the rest of it seems just fine. It works. I have low storage issues, but that is a known thing. The expansion seems to mostly work on that. Pretty much only apps must be on native storage. Even then the new phones have more.
Bottom line. I can get 3 or 4 Motos for the price of one pixel pro or Samsung device. So when updates cease. Just move on.
What is important about flagship other than cameras that I do not use much at all. Do we care about colors or plastic, the thing will be in a case anyway. Is screen refresh important if not a gamer?
For whom is a cheaper phone plenty good enough? Since the only deciding factor for me has been the pkb, I am trying to determine what I care about when buying my post bb phone.
If you plan to roll through phones every 3 years then a flagship is just a luxury.
A Samsung A53 5G or Pixel 6a at $449 represents a sweet spot that can bridge the two.03-23-22 09:30 AMLike 0 - Different folks have different needs....
100% I think many would be fine with a solid midgrade phone. But others today are looking for better performance, longer life span and resell value, or a camera experience that can't be beat.... short of carrying around a big DLSR and Lenses ALL THE TIME.
In the end I know most the females in my family.... it's the camera that drives their choices.
And a Moto 3 or 4 isn't going to offer the display quality of a Pixel 6 Pro or S22.... thankfully there are plenty of options that fit a wide range of budgets.03-23-22 09:37 AMLike 0 -
To be clear, I much prefer not to be stuck on/with a carrier if I need to move. (My house is in a questionable zone, for instance. over the years, Verizon, then ATT was the best there - I am now on T-Mob for the K2). Either way, I would get unlocked phones both to save money vs the plans and have flexibility to move when needed.
So explain why a flagship would be a "necessity." Is it just for the 5 year life cycle? If cost was comparable, I would be getting the highest and best simply to extend its EOL date. But costs are multiples of each other.
Now, the newest Moto's still do not offer 5G. That is a problem for me. But what are other dealbreakers? Camera only counts for some - I am not one.03-23-22 09:49 AMLike 0 - Why would one need to keep a phone for 5 years? I agree that what was flagship 5 years ago is borderline obsolete today. So why wouldn't the smarter play be to by a mid-level and repeat every 3 years? The carrier plans are pretty much designed that way anyway.
To be clear, I much prefer not to be stuck on/with a carrier if I need to move. (My house is in a questionable zone, for instance. over the years, Verizon, then ATT was the best there - I am now on T-Mob for the K2). Either way, I would get unlocked phones both to save money vs the plans and have flexibility to move when needed.
So explain why a flagship would be a "necessity." Is it just for the 5 year life cycle? If cost was comparable, I would be getting the highest and best simply to extend its EOL date. But costs are multiples of each other.
Now, the newest Moto's still do not offer 5G. That is a problem for me. But what are other dealbreakers? Camera only counts for some - I am not one.
On a separate topic, buying a Chinese smartphone like Motorola would not be in the cards for myself and many others. Pretty much only Apple, Samsung, Google, and Nokia are on the table.03-23-22 10:25 AMLike 0 - Or more correctly, who needs flagship devices? I have been using my inexpensive moto G Power for the last couple weeks as my dd.
I hate the glass kb. (duh).
But most of the rest of it seems just fine. It works. I have low storage issues, but that is a known thing. The expansion seems to mostly work on that. Pretty much only apps must be on native storage. Even then the new phones have more.
Bottom line. I can get 3 or 4 Motos for the price of one pixel pro or Samsung device. So when updates cease. Just move on.
What is important about flagship other than cameras that I do not use much at all. Do we care about colors or plastic, the thing will be in a case anyway. Is screen refresh important if not a gamer?
For whom is a cheaper phone plenty good enough? Since the only deciding factor for me has been the pkb, I am trying to determine what I care about when buying my post bb phone.
Issue is most persons, when amortizing a device, are not considering total costs. Carriers conveniently show a "monthly fee."
For Android in the US the Samsung A series and Pixel a series that are much more affordable and offer 95 percent or more of the same experience (and now just as long of a support cycle) are all most need. In many cases as was posted above they are half the cost or less of a flagship.
Motorola/Lenovo has benefited greatly from LG exiting the handset business in the US. IF they can and do commit to a longer support cycle (which they are going to have too) the G series has always been a good value proposition. I tried one before I purchased a DTEK50 and returned it. It was honestly a better all touch experience. A lot of users praise the clean UI of Motorola. It's only their slow and cruddy update history holding them back. Motorola still has brand recognition here in the states and carrier support. That reflects in their continuing sales state side.
Apple's new (2014 design) 5G SE and devices going back to the XR (they still sell new) are their answers for midrange entry points.
I thought the following was a good read in regard to the two newest iOS vs Android offerings.
https://www.macworld.com/article/624...5g-camera.html
Also equally a good read is this best processors compilation. They are not all flagship and reason being they are not always what's best for intended user needs or experience.
https://www.androidauthority.com/bes...story-3110822/03-23-22 10:34 AMLike 0 - Honestly nobody. The ONLY reason flagship devices move here in the US is their carrier deals to either re-up for 24-36 more months, add a line, buy one get one free, etc,etc. Just go to any carrier site and see.
Issue is most persons, when amortizing a device, are not considering total costs. Carriers conveniently show a "monthly fee."
For Android in the US the Samsung A series and Pixel a series that are much more affordable and offer 95 percent or more of the same experience (and now just as long of a support cycle) are all most need. In many cases as was posted above they are half the cost or less of a flagship.
Motorola/Lenovo has benefited greatly from LG exiting the handset business in the US. IF they can and do commit to a longer support cycle (which they are going to have too) the G series has always been a good value proposition. I tried one before I purchased a DTEK50 and returned it. It was honestly a better all touch experience. A lot of users praise the clean UI of Motorola. It's only their slow and cruddy update history holding them back. Motorola still has brand recognition here in the states and carrier support. That reflects in their continuing sales state side.
Apple's new (2014 design) 5G SE and devices going back to the XR (they still sell new) are their answers for midrange entry points.
In the Android world, the premium segment in declining greatly, but even Google realized they needed Flagship to anchor their sales - or get out of smartphone.
Again, individuals have to decide what they "need" or "want".... if your looking for a phone to answer calls, do a little browsing and texting... you can find an adequate device for $200. But if you just had a baby and want to document every moment... your not going to think twice at spending $1,200.Laura Knotek likes this.03-23-22 12:00 PMLike 1 - Another consideration is whether or not one is interested in wireless charging. For example, if one wants a Moto device that offers wireless charging, then the only option currently available is the Moto Edge+. For a person in the USA, that is a locked device only available at Verizon. It costs $899 for 256 GB storage and 5G capability. That is up there with Google Pixel and Samsung flagship pricing. However, given Moto's questionable update policies and being made by a Chinese-owned company, either a Pixel or Samsung would be preferable in that price range.03-23-22 12:52 PMLike 0
- Why would one need to keep a phone for 5 years? I agree that what was flagship 5 years ago is borderline obsolete today. So why wouldn't the smarter play be to by a mid-level and repeat every 3 years? The carrier plans are pretty much designed that way anyway.
To be clear, I much prefer not to be stuck on/with a carrier if I need to move. (My house is in a questionable zone, for instance. over the years, Verizon, then ATT was the best there - I am now on T-Mob for the K2). Either way, I would get unlocked phones both to save money vs the plans and have flexibility to move when needed.
So explain why a flagship would be a "necessity." Is it just for the 5 year life cycle? If cost was comparable, I would be getting the highest and best simply to extend its EOL date. But costs are multiples of each other.
Now, the newest Moto's still do not offer 5G. That is a problem for me. But what are other dealbreakers? Camera only counts for some - I am not one.
For Sprint/TMO, it hasn’t even really started but there have already been some issues with Sprint re-farming affecting some customers. Finally, VZW is last,but more importantly, seriously re-farming their network. I wouldn’t buy a device from them until after their 3G shutdown is completed.03-23-22 01:14 PMLike 0 - Another consideration is whether or not one is interested in wireless charging. For example, if one wants a Moto device that offers wireless charging, then the only option currently available is the Moto Edge+. For a person in the USA, that is a locked device only available at Verizon. It costs $899 for 256 GB storage and 5G capability. That is up there with Google Pixel and Samsung flagship pricing. However, given Moto's questionable update policies and being made by a Chinese-owned company, either a Pixel or Samsung would be preferable in that price range.03-23-22 01:33 PMLike 0
- Biggest reason for a carrier device for next 12-24 months is to get best supported 4G/5G networks on device optimized by the respective carrier. AT&T is only focused right now on finishing the switchover from 3G to 5G bands and supporting the devices it’s sold in this respective time frame. AT&T can’t worry about factory unlocked devices since it’s not really worth it for now. It’s having to adjust or manage it’s network load utilization for it’s most important profitable customers which are the carrier locked captive accounts.
For Sprint/TMO, it hasn’t even really started but there have already been some issues with Sprint re-farming affecting some customers. Finally, VZW is last,but more importantly, seriously re-farming their network. I wouldn’t buy a device from them until after their 3G shutdown is completed.
But 5G compatibility between markets is going to be painful for today's phones with only a few bands.Laura Knotek likes this.03-23-22 01:33 PMLike 1 -
Google, Samsung, and Nokia are American, South Korean, and Finnish respectively - and all of their parts are sourced from outside of China.Laura Knotek likes this.03-23-22 01:36 PMLike 1 -
- If your theory were correct... why does Apple do so well in other markets. They sell more phones outside the USA than inside the USA. And the SE isn't even close to being their top selling model.
In the Android world, the premium segment in declining greatly, but even Google realized they needed Flagship to anchor their sales - or get out of smartphone.
Again, individuals have to decide what they "need" or "want".... if your looking for a phone to answer calls, do a little browsing and texting... you can find an adequate device for $200. But if you just had a baby and want to document every moment... your not going to think twice at spending $1,200.
I feel horrible for all the less fortunate people that can't afford to properly photo their new babies..
The notion one has to spend "flagship" money for performance has long been debunked. But the marketing machines roll on...
If the Realme, Xiaomi and Oppo's were more widely available and the US carriers didn't play their BS games you would see a lot more in use.
Check out Flossy Carter's review on the S22 Ultra (he digs) to see how many things the latest Xiaomi has (at a fraction of the cost) that he argues a Samsung flagship should. LED for notifications, expandable storage, head phone jack, IR blaster, etc...
Do you really get more functionality by simply paying more?? That answer is no03-23-22 01:40 PMLike 0 - The current Pixel 5a camera beat all those "must have" amortized, BOGO or "free" 1,200 dollar devices in MBK's camera shoot out. (And it's @ 449 new or 349 refurbished)
I feel horrible for all the less fortunate people that can't afford to properly photo their new babies..
The notion one has to spend "flagship" money for performance has long been debunked. But the marketing machines roll on...
If the Realme, Xiaomi and Oppo's were more widely available and the US carriers didn't play their BS games you would see a lot more in use.
Check out Flossy Carter's review on the S22 Ultra (he digs) to see how many things the latest Xiaomi has (at a fraction of the cost) that he argues a Samsung flagship should. LED for notifications, expandable storage, head phone jack, IR blaster, etc...
Do you really get more functionality by simply paying more?? That answer is no
Top Camera score on DXOMARK (independent site that's been known for scientifically assesses cameras... before smartphones had them)
- #1 Honor Magic 4 Ultimate.... SRP $1,211
- #3 Xiaomi Mi II Ultra....... SRP $1,200
- #5 Apple iPhone 13 Pro Max..... SRP $1,099
- #10 Oppo Find X3 Pro..... SRP $1,149
I'll admit the Pixel 6 at $599 (#12) is a GREAT value.... if the rest of the package meets your needs. (Pixel 5 less so as it's not even rated, but the Pixel 5 was only #38). But many looking at the camera reviews are going to see that more lenses means more options, and the 5a didn't have those.
Oppo's been selling phone for a while now in the USA....
- Nord 2 5G is a solid contender at #55 and only $399 (SRP)
- But it's flagship big bother the OnePlus 9 Pro (#30) is up there at $969 (SRP)
Do Chinese manufacture offer cheaper phones... sure, but so does Samsung and Nokia. In general you do get what your willing to pay for.... overall. As the camera is only one aspect that some might value. Others it might be the display size, brightness, color rendition, refresh rate. Someone else might value battery life, others are looking for great stereo audio. And something to be said for a company with a known track record of providing long term support, updates and patches. And many Apple users it's the features (Face ID that works, iMessage, Facetime, AirDrop....) and ecosystem and the compatible with those around them - family and friends
Buy what you want... but people aren't wrong to buy a Flagship phone if that fits their budget and their needs and wants.Laura Knotek and howarmat like this.03-23-22 03:38 PMLike 2 - Personally I use a midrange phone (Samsung A52s) which I am currently happy with. But I don't see why flagships shouldn't exist.
Phones nowadays became like cars. A midrange car is perfectly fine and usable for most people but it doesn't mean that high end cars shouldn't exist.
We can argue about features until the cows come home but the matter is, even on phones which have SD card slot and headphone jack many people don't use it (didn't use it either one single time since I have the phone)
Ir blaster and notification light are even more niche features.
I agree that not including charger with some models is inexcusable (especially with Samsung as Apple always bundled their sh!ttiest 5w charger with iPhone's)
Plus one thing: if we approach this discussion from the favourite angle of many in this forum: did it contribute to PKB/BB's disappearance?
Rest assured if BB still made phones, it would certainly have a 1000 $/€ + priced flagship as well. Some people would criticize it that it's too expensive, it lacks feature XYZ, and so on...03-24-22 08:12 AMLike 0 - Personally I use a midrange phone (Samsung A52s) which I am currently happy with. But I don't see why flagships shouldn't exist.
Phones nowadays became like cars. A midrange car is perfectly fine and usable for most people but it doesn't mean that high end cars shouldn't exist.
We can argue about features until the cows come home but the matter is, even on phones which have SD card slot and headphone jack many people don't use it (didn't use it either one single time since I have the phone)
Ir blaster and notification light are even more niche features.
I agree that not including charger with some models is inexcusable (especially with Samsung as Apple always bundled their sh!ttiest 5w charger with iPhone's)
Plus one thing: if we approach this discussion from the favourite angle of many in this forum: did it contribute to PKB/BB's disappearance?
Rest assured if BB still made phones, it would certainly have a 1000 $/€ + priced flagship as well. Some people would criticize it that it's too expensive, it lacks feature XYZ, and so on...
I know OM promised a Flagship phone (among other things), but I was expecting a $1,000 - $1,300 phone, plus a monthly subscription. Would be interesting to know how much info Adam got on their overall plans...03-24-22 08:35 AMLike 0 - Or more correctly, who needs flagship devices? I have been using my inexpensive moto G Power for the last couple weeks as my dd.
I hate the glass kb. (duh).
But most of the rest of it seems just fine. It works. I have low storage issues, but that is a known thing. The expansion seems to mostly work on that. Pretty much only apps must be on native storage. Even then the new phones have more.
Bottom line. I can get 3 or 4 Motos for the price of one pixel pro or Samsung device. So when updates cease. Just move on.
What is important about flagship other than cameras that I do not use much at all. Do we care about colors or plastic, the thing will be in a case anyway. Is screen refresh important if not a gamer?
For whom is a cheaper phone plenty good enough? Since the only deciding factor for me has been the pkb, I am trying to determine what I care about when buying my post bb phone.
I also like buying the latest and greatest of the time when I do get a new smartphone, I’m an enthusiast after all. I also love the build quality of the flagship iPhones with their stainless steel frames, they give it a lot of heft and premium feel, mix that with a genuine leather case and the phone feels like a luxury product, I’m actually shopping for a second leather case now.
Does one NEED a flagship? Hell no! In fact I’d be more than happy to recommend a Galaxy A or those huge battery Galaxy M series to someone or an older iPhone that is still being supported to someone depending on what they are looking for.03-26-22 05:22 AMLike 0 - For me personally it’s the longevity a flagship can give you, I think Conite touched on this to.
I also like buying the latest and greatest of the time when I do get a new smartphone, I’m an enthusiast after all. I also love the build quality of the flagship iPhones with their stainless steel frames, they give it a lot of heft and premium feel, mix that with a genuine leather case and the phone feels like a luxury product, I’m actually shopping for a second leather case now.
Does one NEED a flagship? Hell no! In fact I’d be more than happy to recommend a Galaxy A or those huge battery Galaxy M series to someone or an older iPhone that is still being supported to someone depending on what they are looking for.
And you'd be saving a lot of money buying last year's flagship, at least in the case of Android they lose most of their value within the first year. If I wanted an S22 Ultra now... I could just get a Note 20U which is still less than two years old and seems to bring 97% the same experience, and for just over half the cost (based on current Swappa prices).03-26-22 08:05 PMLike 0 - Except that you wouldn't be feeling nor seeing that premium Steel frame if you throw a case on the thing (which is definitely a good idea considering the price and just being a glass sandwich).
And you'd be saving a lot of money buying last year's flagship, at least in the case of Android they lose most of their value within the first year. If I wanted an S22 Ultra now... I could just get a Note 20U which is still less than two years old and seems to bring 97% the same experience, and for just over half the cost (based on current Swappa prices).
But I want the latest and greatest when I am purchasing, LOL! Don’t care for last years model I want the year of my purchase’s model.Laura Knotek likes this.03-27-22 05:43 AMLike 1 -
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Do you resell your current one every year right after purchasing the latest one at least?03-27-22 06:59 AMLike 0 -
Nope, no resale, I usually give my devices to relatives or friends who need them or I’ll just keep them around as spares, really depends.Laura Knotek likes this.03-27-22 09:49 AMLike 1 - The thing is - you can get two or three phones for the price of a flagship. I can see, touch and appreciate there is a difference between a moto G power and a Pixel 6 Pro.
The Moto is not 5G. To me, that is significant as it might make the phone largely unusable within 3 years.
The Pixel camera is much better, but I do not use it much at all.
The Pixel screen is better. Likely much more visible outdoors and "more better" at video games. But since I do not play games, not an issue. I do work outside from time to time, so the screen is a thing. But how much value to ascribe? Not sure.
No wireless charging. Again, an issue, but I have never really had it (yes, the Priv did) so i will not miss it.
The Moto has SD expansion and lower native storage. I am working through that as an issue now.
Moto has WAY better battery life. nuff said.
Moto has 3.5 jack. For some important - I have two analog cars, so I am one of them.
So the Pixel Pro is appx 5 times the cost for the Moto if i get the 256 storage model.
FIVE TIMES!!!
Would I prefer the Pixel? Probably. But not 5 times, or even twice, as much.
I appreciate that the Moto will be EOL within 2 years +/-. But I can get the (then) newest model which will have more than the current Pixel.
So what am I missing?
And to be clear, one can be an enthusiast by being able to do everything one wants on your phone at a lower price point. It is all about utility and functionality and enjoyment. If you can get all of that for 1/5th the price, are you not just wasting money on the flagship?
Also - I am at a loss for why folks talk about resale. Why do i care the value of my stuff for someone else? I care its value for ME and my family. Could resale be a factor? Sure, but not an overwhelming one.03-27-22 02:59 PMLike 0 - The thing is - you can get two or three phones for the price of a flagship. I can see, touch and appreciate there is a difference between a moto G power and a Pixel 6 Pro.
The Moto is not 5G. To me, that is significant as it might make the phone largely unusable within 3 years.
The Pixel camera is much better, but I do not use it much at all.
The Pixel screen is better. Likely much more visible outdoors and "more better" at video games. But since I do not play games, not an issue. I do work outside from time to time, so the screen is a thing. But how much value to ascribe? Not sure.
No wireless charging. Again, an issue, but I have never really had it (yes, the Priv did) so i will not miss it.
The Moto has SD expansion and lower native storage. I am working through that as an issue now.
Moto has WAY better battery life. nuff said.
Moto has 3.5 jack. For some important - I have two analog cars, so I am one of them.
So the Pixel Pro is appx 5 times the cost for the Moto if i get the 256 storage model.
FIVE TIMES!!!
Would I prefer the Pixel? Probably. But not 5 times, or even twice, as much.
I appreciate that the Moto will be EOL within 2 years +/-. But I can get the (then) newest model which will have more than the current Pixel.
So what am I missing?
And to be clear, one can be an enthusiast by being able to do everything one wants on your phone at a lower price point. It is all about utility and functionality and enjoyment. If you can get all of that for 1/5th the price, are you not just wasting money on the flagship?
Also - I am at a loss for why folks talk about resale. Why do i care the value of my stuff for someone else? I care its value for ME and my family. Could resale be a factor? Sure, but not an overwhelming one.
Value is in the eye of the beholder.03-27-22 03:35 PMLike 0
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