[dbq10]

I think that people who do a serious amount of typing on the go would probably have an 8 or 10 inch tablet with a keyboard case. Also, hand arthritis often occurs first in the joint at the base of the thumb and is common after the age of sixty.

[bb10adopter111]

That sums it up...

The "market" isn't as interested in creative writing on a mobile device, as it is in playing games, viewing post, creating post that are more visual than written langue, or simply using it as a mobile mini TV.

It's not that I think you are totally alone in your quests for a better device for your particular needs, just that I don't think that it's to BBMo benefit to consider your needs over the much larger overall markets needs.

Oh, I know it's my problem and that no one is incented to solve it! That's the whole point of this thread, and what I meant by "the bigger problem." It's my acknowledgment that I need to give up on mobile phones for getting my work done.

Also, just so we're clear, most of my writing is pure, boring business stuff, primarily company policy, team management, sales proposals and consulting advice. My ability to write fast and reasonably well is what brings in the money at my business and keeps everyone pulling together.

I wish I had time for creative writing!

Posted with my trusty Z10

[bb10adopter111]

I think that people who do a serious amount of typing on the go would probably have an 8 or 10 inch tablet with a keyboard case. Also, hand arthritis often occurs first in the joint at the base of the thumb and is common after the age of sixty.

I'm often on my feet, which is why I care about this stuff so much. I also like to pace while I compose. I've never had even a twinge of problems with my thumbs, and I would quit immediately if I did. I'm an amateur jazz drummer and play every day.

But I'm nowhere near sixty either!

Posted with my trusty Z10

[bb10adopter111]

Dupe

[glwerry]

I've used my Passport to type like crazy, making summaries of articles I've read online and also during studying in college. I was encouraged to type by good memo apps and the best keyboard on a phone. DNote mad my habit worse. Lol. I could even touch-type on my Passport which I can't do on a VKB. Having a laptop is indeed good but I don't always want to bring my Macbook anywhere God forbid it get lost or stolen. To me OP you describe the essence of BlackBerry - those of us who wanted a phone that does what our laptops did but with added features like those keyboard shortcuts to sweeten the productivity potential. Ok you can program keyboard shortcuts on Windows and OS X but it wasn't implemented on a phone until BlackBerry. My old BlackBerry phones had so many memos that kept growing and growing as I got other BlackBerry phones - memos about things to do in a nearby town I've been to many times, memos about what the doctor told me, and the aforementioned school notes, etc. Something like over 700 memos and they were long. On previous BlackBerry devices I would max out the memo limit. While I could do this on an iPhone or Android, it's the traditional BlackBerry devices that have emphasized good typing productivity which is why I'm waiting for a good-enough Android device - I tried the KeyOne and after the Passport I can't deal with it. I tried Android and Windows Phone and went right back to BlackBerry because typing was a punishment and I can't always talk to type and it wasn't always that great to use to begin with. I wouldn't even consider Android if it weren't for the BlackBerry apps now available. There is now an Indiegogo project called Planet Gemini which is an any-network usable phone with a mini laptop-like keyboard complete with programable shortcuts and dual-boot Linux and Android for sale soon. Might want to check it out. So, trust me. I know exactly what you're talking about. We are mostly niche people here. Type on bro. PS having a VKB on BlackBerry isn't that bad either and when I got a Z30 I continued to type notes or look for excuses to type. As we all know, BlackBerry was all about typing and productivity. I, too, am weary of Orwellian app spying to monetize you data. I don't trust this anymore than government spying. This is partly why I'm still on BB10 still and having gone running to Google just yet.

Posted via CB10

I got to the 2nd line before I gave up.

Please, use some paragraphs next time.

[glwerry]

There have been some good points here.
I'm closing in on 60 and I use my phone primarily for email and keeping in touch via text.

Although I use Facebook a bit I'm almost never on youtube on the phone.
My kids are a different story. Frankly, there are days when I wonder why my son has come over, since he's spent the entire time watching videos or playing games on his phone.

So, there is a definite difference in the approaches.

As a result, I am totally about having a PKB, ahead of all other features, even though I don't compose nearly the amount that some in this thread do.

[misterabrasive]

I think that people who do a serious amount of typing on the go would probably have an 8 or 10 inch tablet with a keyboard case. Also, hand arthritis often occurs first in the joint at the base of the thumb and is common after the age of sixty.

Yes, I concur. Both about the joint and the age

[werkregen]

For productivity, nothing beats a desktop computer, with a proper keyboard, a proper screen and a proper chair to allow a comfortable writing position.

This is spot on for me. I've used BB phones with a PKB for about 2 years and purely from a PKB vs VKB perspective (or writing experience as the OP put it), the PKB might have decreased my productivity since I wrote more IMs or unnecessarily long e-mails.

When it's about generating content and doing research (work), I switch to a Desktop or worst case scenario to an iPad with a PKB case. It's definitely faster and easier on the eyes and body.

it was understood that users would spend most of their time scanning messages and typing away furiously to get essential communications to the people who needed information to get their jobs done. BlackBerry phones were considered to be investments in productivity.

Communication was way more expensive in the stone age and BB with its BIS was a solution to a problem that no longer exists today. Employees could easily ramp up hundreds to thousands of dollars from long distance calls, but BIS offered that at a fraction of a cost, whereas today it's almost free.

IMO communicating via audio and multimedia today is more efficient than it was back then, so people don't need to spend as much time on typing.

I've seen lots of people that still use e-mail to organize all their data, a habit from the old days that's hardwired into them and it's inefficient compared to how young employees organize and compartmentalize data into apps and services.

One big reason is that people in 2018 use phones more for connectivity than productivity. The mainstream market is for people who use their phones to "stay in touch" with their friends, family and coworkers via messages and social networking apps.

I don't mean to sound rude, but I found it funny because it sounded like a remark from my grandma, when she complained that my dad used to work on his phone whereas she only uses a phone to call people and check up on them.

This is what is completely missing in today's phones. We haven't seen a single Android or iOS device that considers writing to be the "killer app."

Here, I disagree. There are keyboard apps that have predictive typing and swyping gestures.

Before I had my BB Classic, I used Swype on a Nexus 5, so this was about 5 years ago. After a bit of "training", it was impressively fast. I was at least as fast writing with Swype as typing on the Classic. Yes, the feeling was better on the Classic, but not more efficient. I imagine it's even faster by now.

And THAT is why we have huge Frankenstein phones that prioritize seeing over doing,

For work, besides calls, I use a phone for research and reading and that's where large form factor shines.

It's about the right tool for the job. I usually have to consume more data than what I have to give back. I gain more from being able to skim through a contract fast, than from being able to reply fast. Also, remember when you had to type (or copy/paste) parts of a contract for some coworker? Well, now you have high-res cameras that get the job done in 10 seconds, not 5 minutes.

Overall, my opinion is that it's ok. We currently have better tools to communicate, coordinate and work on-the-go than what we had in the "stone age". The overall trend is to write less, because information flows faster than it used to, so we don't have to specifically accommodate that activity anymore. The whole concept of being more productive by using a mobile phone has changed over time.

[bb10adopter111]

This is spot on for me. I've used BB phones with a PKB for about 2 years and purely from a PKB vs VKB perspective (or writing experience as the OP put it), the PKB might have decreased my productivity since I wrote more IMs or unnecessarily long e-mails.

When it's about generating content and doing research (work), I switch to a Desktop or worst case scenario to an iPad with a PKB case. It's definitely faster and easier on the eyes and body.



Communication was way more expensive in the stone age and BB with its BIS was a solution to a problem that no longer exists today. Employees could easily ramp up hundreds to thousands of dollars from long distance calls, but BIS offered that at a fraction of a cost, whereas today it's almost free.

IMO communicating via audio and multimedia today is more efficient than it was back then, so people don't need to spend as much time on typing.

I've seen lots of people that still use e-mail to organize all their data, a habit from the old days that's hardwired into them and it's inefficient compared to how young employees organize and compartmentalize data into apps and services.



I don't mean to sound rude, but I found it funny because it sounded like a remark from my grandma, when she complained that my dad used to work on his phone whereas she only uses a phone to call people and check up on them.



Here, I disagree. There are keyboard apps that have predictive typing and swyping gestures.

Before I had my BB Classic, I used Swype on a Nexus 5, so this was about 5 years ago. After a bit of "training", it was impressively fast. I was at least as fast writing with Swype as typing on the Classic. Yes, the feeling was better on the Classic, but not more efficient. I imagine it's even faster by now.



For work, besides calls, I use a phone for research and reading and that's where large form factor shines.

It's about the right tool for the job. I usually have to consume more data than what I have to give back. I gain more from being able to skim through a contract fast, than from being able to reply fast. Also, remember when you had to type (or copy/paste) parts of a contract for some coworker? Well, now you have high-res cameras that get the job done in 10 seconds, not 5 minutes.

Overall, my opinion is that it's ok. We currently have better tools to communicate, coordinate and work on-the-go than what we had in the "stone age". The overall trend is to write less, because information flows faster than it used to, so we don't have to specifically accommodate that activity anymore. The whole concept of being more productive by using a mobile phone has changed over time.

You seem to think I'm negative about the capabilities of modern phones. I'm not at all. I get why people like them and recognize all the things they can do that BBOS and BB10 phones don't. I don't want to go back to 2005!

But writing still matters. A lot. All significant discoveries, transactions, laws, regulations, contracts, engineering reports, organizational decisions, entertainment, marketing, business strategies, etc. are comprised of documents, and those documents go through multiple iterations. Until it's in writing, hardly anything that anyone says makes an impact on the world.

People who write quickly and effectively generally exert more influence in their organizations and professions than people who don't. As a business owner working with my company's clients my team and I spend 75% of our time writing all manner of things that drive everything from marketing to sales to delivery and internal processes. Without the quality and quantity of writing that we produce, we don't have a business.

Often I'm drafting these items while walking from one meeting to another, or through an airport, or during my commute or time before a meeting starts. Having a handheld device that is optimized for writing helps me be more successful.

So, while I'm happy to celebrate all the awesome things that newer technology can do well, I am also pointing out that, since the majority of people don't care much about writing (as you so aptly describe) the folks at Apple and Google don't design phones that are terribly good at the most critical thing that matters to me.

That's a problem for me. I have Apple and Android products that I use for everything EXCEPT writing, but, in the end, writing still controls the world of business.

Posted with my trusty Z10

[Bbnivende]

PBK’s deserve to exist. If BlackBerry advertised the benefits of a PBK they might double or even triple their yearly sales. Still, the fact remains that the other 99 percent of phone purchasers will still prefer a VKB.

[Emaderton3]

PBK’s deserve to exist. If BlackBerry advertised the benefits of a PBK they might double or even triple their yearly sales. Still, the fact remains that the other 99 percent of phone purchasers will still prefer a VKB.

There are a ton of people that grew up using BlackBerry KB phones. But they have since moved on. Perhaps a fraction of them could be brought back. I guess we will see. Hopefully TCL can vain momentum and have some resources to advertise.

[Chuck Finley69]

PBK’s deserve to exist. If BlackBerry advertised the benefits of a PBK they might double or even triple their yearly sales. Still, the fact remains that the other 99 percent of phone purchasers will still prefer a VKB.

Peanut Butter & Ketchup?

[bb10adopter111]

PBK’s deserve to exist. If BlackBerry advertised the benefits of a PBK they might double or even triple their yearly sales. Still, the fact remains that the other 99 percent of phone purchasers will still prefer a VKB.

VKBs can be great bfor writing, especially if the need for editing is limited. I'm faster at text entry on a VKB than on a PKB, and I've used both extemsively.

But a lot of current phones simply aren't designed for hours of daily typing on the VKB. It's really more of an afterthought, so that it's hard to find a relaxed, neutral hand position with thumbs centered on the middle of the keyboard.

[Bbnivende]

PKB reliability is a definite factor.

Edit: I see that the Keyone has a bit of a double typing issue. Seems to be Software though.

[valer466]

red dot awards anyone?

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

PBK’s deserve to exist. If BlackBerry advertised the benefits of a PBK they might double or even triple their yearly sales. Still, the fact remains that the other 99 percent of phone purchasers will still prefer a VKB.

All things being equal.... That was the hope with TCL. KEYone with those specs being sold for $400, with full US carrier support.

In the end I expect a PKB is always going to be a premium, on the just too few see as worth the extra expense. Which is why most OEMs have given up on it.

[Bbnivende]

I would not be surprised if BlackBerry sells its Keyboard patents. Chen has no love for hardware.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

I would not be surprised if BlackBerry sells its Keyboard patents. Chen has no love for hardware.

Chen doesn't seem to be a seller.... likes to keep ownership and license stuff.

Problem with the BlackBerry keyboard, it needs the BlackBerry name too.

But then I still think the company needs a new name - or an old one.

[Chuck Finley69]

Chen doesn't seem to be a seller.... likes to keep ownership and license stuff.

Problem with the BlackBerry keyboard, it needs the BlackBerry name too.

But then I still think the company needs a new name - or an old one.

After much thought, I've come up with two.

1. QNX since BlackBerry was associated for most people with hardware and company focus is now heavily with QNX.

2. Catch-all name to represent where the company is now in 2018. Drum roll please....


Research In Motion - RIM

[Troy Tiscareno]

Don't get me started. As I said here the day RIM announced they were renaming themselves to BB, that was a completely idiotic move, especially given the brand damage that the BB name had sustained by then. That was a major Heins bungle. The RIM name has never been more appropriate, given the work on self-driving cars and on Radar. I'm still incredulous about the move to the BB name (though plenty of people disagreed with me, strongly and loudly, at the time, believing the BB name was the way to go).

[bb10adopter111]

Don't get me started. As I said here the day RIM announced they were renaming themselves to BB, that was a completely idiotic move, especially given the brand damage that the BB name had sustained by then. That was a major Heins bungle. The RIM name has never been more appropriate, given the work on self-driving cars and on Radar. I'm still incredulous about the move to the BB name (though plenty of people disagreed with me, strongly and loudly, at the time, believing the BB name was the way to go).

I couldn't agree more. That was an obvious mistake at the time.

Posted with my trusty Z10

[makaiman]

EXCELLENT POST... SO TRUE, NO MORE, NO LESS... Chen needs to see these types of posts DAILY.

Posted via CB10

[Bbnivende]

EXCELLENT POST... SO TRUE, NO MORE, NO LESS... Chen needs to see these types of posts DAILY.

Posted via CB10

What type of post should Chen see daily? Lots of posts here.