10-15-18 11:10 AM
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  1. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Even if they renegotiate, BB will always be associated with PKB. The BB name has never been successfully associated with any VKB going back to Storm. If TCL wants to sell VKB there’s nothing stopping them. Actually,they’ve been doing that under the Alcatel brand for couple years in the USA and little success beyond prepaid.
    The problem is with the low volumes . Running a separate company within TCL plus all the costs of designing and implementing and servicing of the devices are prohibitive.

    I think the lowest number that Chen had for profitability was about 5 million units. BBmo is no where close.

    TCL needs to rework the agreement with BlackBerry in a manner which will allow them to grow the brand.
    10-01-18 04:50 PM
  2. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Even if they renegotiate, BB will always be associated with PKB. The BB name has never been successfully associated with any VKB going back to Storm. If TCL wants to sell VKB there’s nothing stopping them. Actually,they’ve been doing that under the Alcatel brand for couple years in the USA and little success beyond prepaid.
    I fact sales of Alcatel phones in the US fell by over 50%, that's higher than their general 30% drop in sales.

    Slab market is tough... on price and quality.
    10-01-18 04:59 PM
  3. Bbnivende's Avatar
    Yes, fair point. I sure would not have picked BlackBerry as part of a house of brands strategy. The PKB market is just too niche. The LE device's success will tell us if PKB's present a reasonable market opportunity.


    News article :
    "BlackBerry only holds a market share of less than 1 percent among premium smartphones, which are defined as those with price tags of over $400. Mahieu understandably is not happy with that figure."

    "It doesn't have to be a niche business," Mahieu said, referring to BlackBerry Mobile's products. "I would not be satisfied with market share in premium (phones) that is sub-1 percent forever," he added, saying that he hopes for BlackBerry Mobile to capture a premium smartphone market share of 3 percent to 5 percent over the next few years. "


    No way for BlackBerry to reach their target with just PKB devices.
    Last edited by Bbnivende; 10-01-18 at 05:50 PM.
    10-01-18 05:33 PM
  4. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Yes, fair point. I sure would not have picked BlackBerry as part of a house of brands strategy. The PKB market is just too niche. The LE device's success will tell us if PKB's present a reasonable market opportunity.


    News article :
    "BlackBerry only holds a market share of less than 1 percent among premium smartphones, which are defined as those with price tags of over $400. Mahieu understandably is not happy with that figure."

    "It doesn't have to be a niche business," Mahieu said, referring to BlackBerry Mobile's products. "I would not be satisfied with market share in premium (phones) that is sub-1 percent forever," he added, saying that he hopes for BlackBerry Mobile to capture a premium smartphone market share of 3 percent to 5 percent over the next few years. "


    No way for BlackBerry to reach their target with just PKB devices.
    There is no way to reach their target... if they don't make premium phones.
    10-02-18 09:56 AM
  5. Bbnivende's Avatar
    There is no way to reach their target... if they don't make premium phones.
    I think their idea of premium is what we call mid range. So BlackBerry phones are premium by comparison to Alcaltel.
    Qualcom chips for example.

    Having CrackBerry as a help forum certainly creates the impression that BlackBerry phones are not as reliable as they could be. Huawei and One Plus may be more reliable, a trait we associate with premium phones. I have high hopes that the LE will be better sorted out from the get go.
    10-02-18 10:37 AM
  6. DWonder's Avatar
    If Apple came out with a 9900 size phone they would be regarded as "changing the game", lol. For this reason BB Mobile to attempt to make one, if at all possible, to keep the their foot in that market. Same goes for a bigger phone. Put a little money into trying it with limited release to see wut they get. Spend a little money to possibly make more? Just my opinion
    10-02-18 11:29 PM
  7. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    What foot in what market? In 2018, both references are like referring to Big Foot.
    If Apple came out with a 9900 size phone they would be regarded as "changing the game", lol. For this reason BB Mobile to attempt to make one, if at all possible, to keep the their foot in that market. Same goes for a bigger phone. Put a little money into trying it with limited release to see wut they get. Spend a little money to possibly make more? Just my opinion
    10-03-18 12:23 AM
  8. DWonder's Avatar
    What foot in what market? In 2018, both references are like referring to Big Foot.
    However u want to word it. I see now that market may have been the wrong word to use in regards to the smaller phone. They should spend a little money and test the waters for a smaller phone. Is that better or is there a Titanic reference in there? Lol.

    For the bigger phone which I don't care about, like the OP said, there is a market for so they "could" make a low to mid spec one and see how it does.

    I mean wut more can they do in the KEY series? Just keep slowly but surely upping the specs? Then wut? Size will just be wut it is now for every new phone they come out with? Is that wut u personally think they're gonna do for the next 3-4 phones they release?
    10-03-18 12:36 AM
  9. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    However u want to word it. I see now that market may have been the wrong word to use in regards to the smaller phone. They should spend a little money and test the waters for a smaller phone. Is that better or is there a Titanic reference in there? Lol.

    For the bigger phone which I don't care about, like the OP said, there is a market for so they "could" make a low to mid spec one and see how it does.

    I mean wut more can they do in the KEY series? Just keep slowly but surely upping the specs? Then wut? Size will just be wut it is now for every new phone they come out with? Is that wut u personally think they're gonna do for the next 3-4 phones they release?
    If sales don’t increase, there won’t be 3-4 more phones. Smaller phone won’t happen becuase it would be too obscure for parts sourcing and could actually be more expensive to produce. Demand from consumers are larger devices and not smaller devices.
    10-03-18 12:43 AM
  10. DWonder's Avatar
    If sales don’t increase, there won’t be 3-4 more phones. Smaller phone won’t happen becuase it would be too obscure for parts sourcing and could actually be more expensive to produce. Demand from consumers are larger devices and not smaller devices.
    Ok, I mentioned both sizes. I kno a smaller one isn't likely. Wut about a bigger one? Do u see them keeping the same size for the few phones even if demand is for larger? Askin for the OP, doesn't bother me either way per se :-)
    10-03-18 12:49 AM
  11. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Ok, I mentioned both sizes. I kno a smaller one isn't likely. Wut about a bigger one? Do u see them keeping the same size for the few phones even if demand is for larger? Askin for the OP, doesn't bother me either way per se :-)
    At this point, I only see them sticking to current size for parts sourcing efficiency unless some large carrier or retailer order is made and paid in advance.
    10-03-18 12:53 AM
  12. stlabrat's Avatar
    let's see if current handsets out there passed the "president" test today - before we venture out for large or small. it is antenna test time (compatibility to carrier network). If not, large/small doesn't matter much. (BB10 included). I keep my fingers crossed.
    10-03-18 05:29 AM
  13. Bbnivende's Avatar
    let's see if current handsets out there passed the "president" test today - before we venture out for large or small. it is antenna test time (compatibility to carrier network). If not, large/small doesn't matter much. (BB10 included). I keep my fingers crossed.
    There are phone OEM's that are successful even though they have a minimal footprint in the USA.


    By the way . The Evolve with 64 G memory sells for $100 US less than the LE. No, Keyboard fans the cost of manufacture is not significantly different. Could it be that TCL is price gouging rather than the BlackBerry tax ?
    Last edited by Bbnivende; 10-03-18 at 09:57 AM.
    10-03-18 09:01 AM
  14. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    There are phone OEM's that are successful even though they have a minimal footprint in the USA.


    By the way . The Evolve with 64 G memory sells for $100 US less than the LE. No, Keyboard fans the cost of manufacture is not significantly different. Could it be that TCL is price gouging rather than the BlackBerry tax ?
    It's a SD450 powered phone.... And BBMo cost/risks for global sales is higher. Optiemus probable just contracted a local manufacture that had a basic reference design that they picked a few components for. And it's unknown if Optiemus is going to try and offer updates like BBMo or like PT BB Merah Putih in Indonesia. And of course the Evolve doesn't have a PKB... that alone cost $100 (by some estimations - probable not the LE version without the touch sensitivity). Few Band, Fewer regulator test... But the Evolve is still much higher than like devices in that market... but with no PKB differential. It will succeed or fail based on the Brand and Privacy/Security alone.

    As for being successful without USA... without a doubt that is possible. If the reasons you can't make it in the US are specific to that market and not a general issue with your products. The big issue here was the lack of carrier support - Sales and Service, but there were other factors at play, and those affect any market.
    10-03-18 10:13 AM
  15. thurask's Avatar
    By the way . The Evolve with 64 G memory sells for $100 US less than the LE. No, Keyboard fans the cost of manufacture is not significantly different. Could it be that TCL is price gouging rather than the BlackBerry tax ?
    The Evolve is a Snapdragon 450 phone at 25k rupees, competitors with the same CPU like the 64GB Moto G6 and 64GB Samsung Galaxy A6+ are in the 16k-22k range.

    For a more apples to apples comparison, the Snapdragon 660 Evolve X is listed at 35k, while the Snapdragon 660 KEY2 is sold at 42k (both at 6 GB RAM and 64GB storage). Your guess where that 7k comes in.
    10-03-18 10:27 AM
  16. stlabrat's Avatar
    There are phone OEM's that are successful even though they have a minimal footprint in the USA.


    By the way . The Evolve with 64 G memory sells for $100 US less than the LE. No, Keyboard fans the cost of manufacture is not significantly different. Could it be that TCL is price gouging rather than the BlackBerry tax ?
    can understand all the phones with sim would be fine. wait and see those wifi only and un-locked (never carrier attached) would do. As for the indian phone, country of origin matters (with currency). it possibly forced to lower the price, meanwhile, TCL/BBMo does not have such a pressure. IMHO.
    10-03-18 12:02 PM
  17. ezubeBB2013's Avatar
    If sales don’t increase, there won’t be 3-4 more phones. Smaller phone won’t happen becuase it would be too obscure for parts sourcing and could actually be more expensive to produce. Demand from consumers are larger devices and not smaller devices.
    Larger devices nowadays means carrying a 6-foot long pole in your pocket! Oh and yes a tiny PKB at the bottom of the pole!

    Posted via BlackBerry Passport
    10-15-18 11:10 AM
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