02-20-18 07:50 AM
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  1. panopticon's Avatar
    I agree IMO the passport was by far the best bb10 device the keyboard was amazing ..but the KEYone is probably the best keyboard I have used...and I’ve used a lot of physical keyboards. Everyone’s opinion is different . Nevertheless, I don’t expect to ever see a three rowed keyboard again as long as they continue using android we know we are not going to see a passport form factor on. Android as it wont work with a square screen. Any other option would just be ridiculous in size or they would have to cram keyboard together and it just wouldn’t be anything like a passport at all.
    Proportion wise I do like the size of the KeyONE keyboard. What I'm not crazy about is the glassy finish. Definitely prefer the matte black of the Passport. I also would to like to see a lot less 'dead space'. Get those bezels trimmed right down and get rid of those useless capacitive keys.

    And I know TCL has a propensity for buttons but they really need to rethink large buttons and particularly putting an extra button so low down on the device. There is a reason almost every OEM puts buttons near the top...and keeps them small...you need to able to grasp the sides of the device. That is especially important with a PKB device that requires more physical effort to press the keys!
    01-17-18 10:03 AM
  2. Carjackd's Avatar
    Proportion wise I do like the size of the KeyONE keyboard. What I'm not crazy about is the glassy finish. Definitely prefer the matte black of the Passport. I also would to like to see a lot less 'dead space'. Get those bezels trimmed right down and get rid of those useless capacitive keys.

    And I know TCL has a propensity for buttons but they really need to rethink large buttons and particularly putting an extra button so low down on the device. There is a reason almost every OEM puts buttons near the top...and keeps them small...you need to able to grasp the sides of the device. That is especially important with a PKB device that requires more physical effort to press the keys!
    I'd like to see the Bezels trimmed myself...and the speakers beefed up. Trimming those Bezels would free up some space for sure. Z30 probably had the best speakers of all BlackBerry devices , the passport was a pretty close second . TLC needs to dig into the BlackBerry roots a bit ...with a touch of new. I'm really not about living in the past and hoping ore about moving forward but there is always something that you can learn from the past.
    01-17-18 10:33 AM
  3. conite's Avatar
    Proportion wise I do like the size of the KeyONE keyboard. What I'm not crazy about is the glassy finish. Definitely prefer the matte black of the Passport. I also would to like to see a lot less 'dead space'. Get those bezels trimmed right down and get rid of those useless capacitive keys.

    And I know TCL has a propensity for buttons but they really need to rethink large buttons and particularly putting an extra button so low down on the device. There is a reason almost every OEM puts buttons near the top...and keeps them small...you need to able to grasp the sides of the device. That is especially important with a PKB device that requires more physical effort to press the keys!
    Those "useless" capacitive Android keys provide a constant 3:2 aspect ratio on the screen in all operating modes. Personally I prefer that.

    Getting rid of the bezels works against durability. A price that TCL is probably not willing to pay given its positioning with the brand.
    Qorax likes this.
    01-17-18 12:19 PM
  4. panopticon's Avatar
    Those "useless" capacitive Android keys provide a constant 3:2 aspect ratio on the screen in all operating modes. Personally I prefer that.

    Getting rid of the bezels works against durability. A price that TCL is probably not willing to pay given its positioning with the brand.
    When you combine all that dark space generated by a useless capacitive row, PKB (when not in use), and huge bezels...that's a lot of dark real estate that adds nothing to the enjoyment or appearance of the device. Trim the fat, and the bulk. Besides, that market is already cornered by the likes of Caterpillar, Samsung Active etc. It's not the BlackBerry crowd.

    As for the thick bezels...your durability myth is nothing more than post rationalized value engineering. Chunky is cheap. A phone can have thin, modern bezels and still be durable enough. Priorities first, and engineer an appropriate solution!
    01-17-18 12:55 PM
  5. conite's Avatar

    As for the thick bezels...your durability myth is nothing more than post rationalized value engineering. Chunky is cheap. A phone can have thin, modern bezels and still be durable enough. Priorities first, and engineer an appropriate solution!
    If you set out specifically to engineer a durable device, would you have an edge to edge screen? Do any of the other durable devices you list have edge to edge screens?
    01-17-18 01:01 PM
  6. panopticon's Avatar
    If you set out specifically to engineer a durable device, would you have an edge to edge screen? Do any of the other durable devices you list have edge to edge screens?
    I never said edge to edge glass. I said slimmed down bezels. The metal frame is one thing, but it's only a few mm thick at best. I think most people would agree we shouldn't need much more than 5mm or so for a bezel at the top and bottom of the device, and not be adding 20% or more worth of bulk for the sake of value engineered materials and methods. The durability excuse for big bezels is just that. An excuse.
    01-17-18 01:13 PM
  7. world traveler and former ceo's Avatar
    I want to see somewhere in between, a Passport like keyboard but not 3 row. A little wider than KEYone, but the same 'feeling' and style as Passport. Seems it would be the best balance. That said, I don't hate the KEYone keyboard either. I don't really ever look at it and think 'Gee, I wish this was more like the 9000/9900/Q10/Classic'.
    Agree completely!!! This is what I want, too!!

    Posted via CB10
    01-17-18 02:27 PM
  8. the_boon's Avatar
    What I'm not crazy about is the glassy finish. Definitely prefer the matte black of the Passport. I also would to like to see a lot less 'dead space'. Get those bezels trimmed right down and get rid of those useless capacitive keys.
    Finally someone who brings this up! The glossy finish is absolutely dreadful, it sucks and it is responsible for the less enjoyable scrolling experience compared to the Priv. While at it, make the keyboard one single part, again like the Priv. That way they can make it the first PKB device with an IP67/68 rating.
    Second, capacitive keys need to gtfo also, on-screen is the way to go.
    Third, AMOLED display.
    Perfect recipe for KEYtwo.
    ardakca likes this.
    01-17-18 03:09 PM
  9. bbslovakia's Avatar
    Yes it was a good keyboard but the reality is, a 3 row keyboard is not as efficient as a 4 row. With the alt key removing the need to move up to the screen to add punctuation or numbers, it makes for a much faster and natural typing experience in my opinion.
    What I could never understand is why didn't blackberry add an alt key into that 3 row keyboard, there is plenty space and then just add symbol signs next to letters and voilà there is the good old bb keyboard in 3 row version...
    01-17-18 04:19 PM
  10. BriniaSona's Avatar
    I'd like the same body style as the classic, but with the 9900's rear side and the front looking like this https://forums.crackberry.com/blackb.../#post13085525

    this device is the same size as the Classic but the screen takes up almost all the space the bzels took up on the classic.
    01-17-18 04:21 PM
  11. vladi's Avatar
    Few things here.

    1. You can't go too tall with a phone that has hardware keys on the bottom, especially if you have full keyboard made out of tiny keys like on every BBRY. KeyOne is close to a golden ration between screen and hardware keyboard.

    2. Point of full featured keyboard phones is one handed use and one handed use goes up to 70mm of width. Anything wider makes it more complicated to use one handed. But BBRY phones always had balancing issues with one handed use due to critical function buttons ill placements on the keyboard.

    3. Passport was always about comfortable textual productivity and it was always a two hander. It's wide screen allowed a lot of text on a single screen but question is do Android users really care about that much text manipulation? I would assume that they could try 3:2 ratio to get that extra width but keep some of the height that is so crucial for Android but doing so they would create subniche market out of already niche market.

    4. This is controversial but I still think T9 i superior text input to any other input method. You have only 9 buttons to deal with which could be very large and very comfortable to use.

    5. And probably most important point about Android and PKB input is that physical input will always be a half baked solution due to inability for manufacturer to access third party application actions.
    01-17-18 04:48 PM
  12. the_boon's Avatar

    4. This is controversial but I still think T9 i superior text input to any other input method. You have only 9 buttons to deal with which could be very large and very comfortable to use.
    You made some really good points until this... wtf? T9 is THE worst text input method, it's so frustratingly slow that I almost can't understand why there are still T9 phones being made today when full qwerty has been mastered long long ago.
    So no, just no to T9.
    01-17-18 05:05 PM
  13. panopticon's Avatar
    Still, after reading all these comments I continue to think an iPhone 8 plus sized device with a PKB would work and there would be interest. We can debate the merits of one PKB layout versus another...I think the kicker though is that it needs a proper full size screen and it's not just a scaled up KeyONE. There would need to be some payback for the phablet form factor in the form of screen real estate.

    I also continue to think that for a phablet size PKB device, BlackBerry's instincts were correct, and a three row keyboard is the right call. A tall...and wide phablet is still *wide enough* to make it workable.
    Bbnivende likes this.
    01-17-18 08:15 PM
  14. CrackedBarry3's Avatar
    Agree with @panopticon. Give me Passport width, Passport keyboard, Passport speakers, 3:2 screen ratio=ultimate phablet!

    Posted via CB10
    Qorax likes this.
    01-17-18 08:32 PM
  15. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Or no smartphone at all, Lol. A bluetooth headset and your basically phone free in almost any scenario anyway...
    Almost. Windows 10 VOIP solutions still don't support full voice control via Bluetooth. I will need to be able to initiate, answer, and terminate calls via Bluetooth while my laptop is in my bag.
    01-17-18 09:34 PM
  16. Bbnivende's Avatar
    I think that the best BlackBerry fans can hope for is that TCL keeps the PKB format alive with subtle continuous improvement. The part of the equation that I am most dubious about is whether old BlackBerry will deliver a constantly improving and evolving software suite of apps for TCL. I guess so far so good .
    Last edited by Bbnivende; 01-18-18 at 02:29 AM.
    01-18-18 02:17 AM
  17. panopticon's Avatar
    I think that the best BlackBerry fans can hope for is that TCL keeps the PKB format alive with subtle continuous improvement. The part of the equation that I am most dubious about is whether old BlackBerry will deliver a constantly improving and evolving software suite of apps for TCL. I guess so far so good .
    We've already seen two new models (+variants) brought to market by TCL within the span of a year, and two more on the way in 2018 (both pkb). I think it's fair to say its not completely unrealistic to expect a new pkb device that diverges somewhat from the KeyONE design in late 2018.

    Realistically...and based of the comments I've seen so far from people who 'probably' know something, it looks like the two devices for this year are going to be an updated KeyONE, and a slightly larger version of the KeyONE with a 4-row pkb. Too bad. I'm sure that approach will win over a few ex-Passport fans, but if the larger variant ends up having the exact same format and screen ratio as the KeyONE its broader appeal will be somewhat limited as a result.
    Last edited by panopticon; 01-18-18 at 10:00 AM.
    01-18-18 08:52 AM
  18. conite's Avatar
    We've already seen two new models (+variants) brought to market by TCL within the span of a year, and two more on the way in 2018 (both pkb). I think it's fair to say its not completely unrealistic to expect a new pkb device that diverges somewhat from the KeyONE design in late 2018.

    Realistically...and based of the comments I've seen so far from people who 'probably' know something, it looks like the two devices for this year are going to be an updated KeyONE, and a slightly larger version of the KeyONE with a 4-row pkb. Too bad. I'm sure that approach will win over a few ex-Passport fans, but if the larger variant ends up having the exact same format and screen ratio as the KeyONE its broader appeal will be somewhat limited as a result.
    I still think that ex-Passport users would want 4:3 (the maximum width to height ratio) rather than a tall, skinny media machine sporting a 16:9 display.

    Work wide - not tall.
    01-18-18 05:18 PM
  19. panopticon's Avatar
    I still think that ex-Passport users would want 4:3 (the maximum width to height ratio) rather than a tall, skinny media machine sporting a 16:9 display.

    Work wide - not tall.
    You think an iPhone 8+ is tall and skinny...seriously? When was the last time you actually picked one up? That was the reference form factor I was using (along with a Motion screen size).

    Anyway, I don't know where you come up with a ridiculous statement like 'tall skinny media machine'...I suppose it somehow rationalizes the barely compliant 4:3 ratio of which you speak...or a completely brainless scale-up of the KeyONE to appease Passport users? Let's hope not. Lol.
    01-18-18 06:49 PM
  20. conite's Avatar
    You think an iPhone 8+ is tall and skinny...seriously? When was the last time you actually picked one up? That was the reference form factor I was using (along with a Motion screen size).
    Compared to the whole philosophy behind the work-wide Passport, yes. Particularly after strapping on a keyboard at the bottom.
    01-18-18 07:14 PM
  21. panopticon's Avatar
    Compared to the whole philosophy behind the work-wide Passport, yes. Particularly after strapping on a keyboard at the bottom.
    There is no keyboard strapped to the bottom of my concept. It is a *slightly* scaled up Motion -to an iPhone 8+ size - and I mapped a Passport format 3-row pkb exactly onto the huge bottom bezel of the Motion.

    You really need to learn to observe a little more closely. Either that or you are coming out swinging with your scaled-up KeyONE just a little too hard...for a reason (?) I hope in your overzealousness you haven't let the cat out of the bag.

    Here it is again...next to a Motion this time. Notice the huge height differential. In fact, I could have kept it the exact same size as the Motion and slimmed down the top bezel a bit. The only reason I didn't was because I personally like the proportion of the iPhone 8+. Given that size has sold millions I'd say it's a pretty decent precedent for a phablet.

    A tall and skinny media beastie with a keyboard tacked on the bottom indeed...LMAO.



    01-18-18 08:36 PM
  22. conite's Avatar
    There is no keyboard strapped to the bottom of my concept. It is a *slightly* scaled up Motion -to an iPhone 8+ size - and I mapped a Passport format 3-row pkb exactly onto the huge bottom bezel of the Motion.

    You really need to learn to observe a little more closely. Either that or you are coming out swinging with your scaled-up KeyONE just a little too hard...for a reason (?) I hope in your overzealousness you haven't let the cat out of the bag.

    Here it is again...next to a Motion this time. Notice the huge height differential. In fact, I could have kept it the exact same size as the Motion and slimmed down the top bezel a bit. The only reason I didn't was because I personally like the proportion of the iPhone 8+. Given that size has sold millions I'd say it's a pretty decent precedent for a phablet.

    A tall and skinny media beastie with a keyboard tacked on the bottom indeed...LMAO.



    https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...3858a1477a.jpg
    But the Passport was EXCLUSIVELY about being much wider and squarer than a conventional 16:9 device.

    Your design is lovely and may actually appeal to many, but is the opposite of what a Passport represents.
    01-18-18 08:49 PM
  23. panopticon's Avatar
    But the Passport was EXCLUSIVELY about being much wider and squarer than a conventional 16:9 device.

    Your design is lovely and may actually appeal to many, but is the opposite of what a Passport represents.
    My perception of the Passport design is it's trying to mate a PKB to a large BlackBerry style 1:1 screen. What you end up with is a slightly bizarre mix of large, square screen and a slimmed down 3-row keyboard to compensate and keep the device somewhat managable. Obviously they realized it wouldn't work to simply scale up a Q10 or Classic. Therefore in my view one should take the marketing mantra of 'working wide' with a grain of salt. It's really about a PKB device with a big 1:1 screen and that's what you get...and besides, a square is as tall as it is wide anyway. Who are they kidding? LOL.

    The real stroke of genius with the Passport was slimming down the PKB to three rows. And I think it was more an afterthought born of necessity, to be honest. I'll call it a happy accident.

    Regardless, I am still of the opinion both the Passport and the hypothetical device I have suggested have the same ultimate goal - a PKB matched with a phablet size screen. The only difference is I have opted for a full size modern smartphone screen ratio and not a so called 'wide' 1:1 ratio...and in so doing put the 3 row PKB to a more productive use.
    01-18-18 09:17 PM
  24. Newbio's Avatar
    Honestly, I loved the Q10, Passport, Priv and now the Keyone all for different reasons.

    Q10 - compact, efficient, and stylish.
    Passport - attention grabber, typing masterpiece, and beefy.
    Priv - never knew how much I missed sliding phones! Android works well on BB!
    Keyone - slick, effective, firmly up-to-date.

    As long as TCL and BB go with one or all of these for future devices I'll be pretty happy.
    Bbnivende and Mrs Teapot like this.
    01-18-18 11:01 PM
  25. Bbnivende's Avatar
    Honestly, I loved the Q10, Passport, Priv and now the Keyone all for different reasons.

    Q10 - compact, efficient, and stylish.
    Passport - attention grabber, typing masterpiece, and beefy.
    Priv - never knew how much I missed sliding phones! Android works well on BB!
    Keyone - slick, effective, firmly up-to-date.

    As long as TCL and BB go with one or all of these for future devices I'll be pretty happy.
    I like your attitude. You like BlackBerry phones for what they are, with no expectations or pretense.
    01-19-18 12:32 AM
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