04-23-18 07:57 AM
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  1. panopticon's Avatar
    Like I wrote, I'll leave the design details for others. I was just demonstrating a form factor that is probably as close to a Passport as Android will allow - with a proper full keyboard.
    And what I am saying is...it isn't. A three row pkb - on a phablet in particular - changes everything. I thought a picture, to scale no less...would help demonstrate the screen ratio of the concept I showed above is the same as the Motion. Not the KeyONE. The Motion.

    But if people can't see beyond a scaled up version of an already existing concept, I suppose I shouldn't be surprised. People usually only see what they want to see, not necessarily what is there.
    01-16-18 06:21 PM
  2. conite's Avatar
    And what I am saying is...it isn't. A three row pkb - on a phablet in particular - changes everything. I thought a picture, to scale no less...would help demonstrate the screen ratio of the concept I showed above is the same as the Motion. Not the KeyONE. The Motion.

    But if people can't see beyond a scaled up version of an already existing concept, I suppose I shouldn't be surprised. People usually only see what they want to see, not necessarily what is there.
    The Passport was primarily about "working wide".

    Wider (physically) and squatter (screen ratio) than the KEYᵒⁿᵉ is what I'm trying to achieve - but stopping short of the even wider and squatter Passport due to Material Design restrictions.
    01-16-18 06:29 PM
  3. panopticon's Avatar
    The Passport was primarily about "working wide".

    Wider (physically) and squatter (screen ratio) than the KEYᵒⁿᵉ is what I'm trying to achieve - but stopping short of the even wider and squatter Passport due to Material Design restrictions.
    Sure..if that's your preferred way of saying you simply scaled up a picture of a KeyONE and left the 'design' for others. Ha ha.
    01-16-18 06:38 PM
  4. conite's Avatar
    Sure..if that's your preferred way of saying you simply scaled up a picture of a KeyONE and left the 'design' for others. Ha ha.
    I'm just trying to place and size the screen and keyboard. I'm not interested in the rest ATM. Let the artists do that.

    Btw, my DTEK60 and KEYᵒⁿᵉ are the identical size, and I measured that I move my hands down a full 10mm when using the pkb on the KEYᵒⁿᵉ.
    01-16-18 06:42 PM
  5. toneytone's Avatar
    For illustration purposes this is basically what I am talking about...a Passport style keyboard mounted to a Motion, slightly upsized to the outline of an iPhone 8+. It works. It has wider and more generous keys relative to a KeyONE and yields a full size screen. No compromises. To me, a device like this would be a no brainer to follow in the footsteps of the Passport and a nice complement to the KeyONE.

    https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...335937d03d.jpg
    You sold me with this pic. Hopefully something like this is in the works.
    01-16-18 06:58 PM
  6. jamesharmeling's Avatar
    I was providing MY opinion.

    Despite having rather long thumbs, I still felt sore after hours of typing a day. I don't have this issue on the more traditionally-sized keyboards.
    Trying to type with one hand on the Passport keyboard hurt after a time and I totally agree. I have large hands as well, but even us large hand guys (like Trump) had a rough time.
    01-16-18 06:58 PM
  7. Bbnivende's Avatar
    I do not think that TCL is into strange , never seen before designs even if they are theoretically possible. Ergonomics and PKB usability are more important than screen real estate . On the other hand a screen size of less than 4.5 inches is rather unimaginable.
    01-16-18 07:08 PM
  8. panopticon's Avatar
    Btw, my DTEK60 and KEYᵒⁿᵉ are the identical size, and I measured that I move my hands down a full 10mm when using the pkb on the KEYᵒⁿᵉ.
    Interesting, I don't find myself doing that at all. Of course, the bezels on the DTEK60 are huge and the vkb pops up much closer to the centre of gravity...so it would definitely 'feel' a lot lighter compared to the KeyONE while typing, whether or not one is compelled to move their hands. Personally I find my forefingers always naturally/comfortably support the device at more or less the same spot on the back (near the centre) regardless of which device I am using. My thumbs do the rest of the work in terms of reaching the keyboard. I assume it is more or less the same for most people while typing...at least if they use their thumbs to do so.

    What I do find makes a difference is the finish of the device, and the width. It is definitely more comfortable to type on a device with a grippier back (or case) than on one having a glass or polished metal back. That sensation of the device feeling slippery creates a lot more hand strain than the location of the keyboard. Same with width. A wider device feels more comfortable and balanced to type on, generally speaking. Again I am talking about thumb typing here...which is pretty much assumed on a PKB device.
    01-16-18 07:18 PM
  9. panopticon's Avatar
    I do not think that TCL is into strange , never seen before designs even if they are theoretically possible. Ergonomics and PKB usability are more important than screen real estate . On the other hand a screen size of less than 4.5 inches is rather unimaginable.
    I don't know about that...some would say the Motion is a bit of an oddball. Where they came up with that design is anyone's guess.

    Ergonomically, I have to say the best BlackBerry PKB by far was the Passport's. The device as a whole maybe not but the keyboard, yes. We can debate the practical advantages of a 4 row keyboard all we want, but a 3 row Passport type keyboard is the hands down winner in terms of sheer comfort (which is the true basis of ergonomics, not words per minute). Which is exactly why I think it rightfully belongs on a larger device.
    Last edited by panopticon; 01-16-18 at 07:45 PM.
    Qorax likes this.
    01-16-18 07:34 PM
  10. ray689's Avatar
    I don't know about that...some would say the Motion is a bit of an oddball. Where they came up with that design is anyone's guess.

    Ergonomically, I have to say the best BlackBerry PKB by far was the Passport's. The device as a whole maybe not but the keyboard, yes. We can debate the practical advantages of a 4 row keyboard all we want, but a 3 row Passport type keyboard is the hands down winner in terms of sheer comfort (which is the true basis of ergonomics, not words per minute). Which is exactly why I think it rightfully belongs on a larger device.
    What's comfortable about reaching up to the screen to type a number in or for punctuation? (See that "?" Was really easy and smooth on the KEYone without having to bring up vkb on screen for it)
    01-16-18 08:03 PM
  11. DamianWarS's Avatar
    What I am expecting to eventually see is a smaller (KeyONE) and larger (KeyONE+?) PKB device from BBBMo. That would make the most sense IMHO. Lots of precedents for that in the market (iPhone 8/8+, Pixel 2 / Pixel 2 XL, S8/8+, etc etc). All those Passport users and even ex-BlackBerry fans on larger phablets will appreciate such a device. Especially if they can manage a true full size screen. Look at an iPhone+ model for example...add up those bezels and line them up at the bottom and you can easily squeeze in a nice and wide three row pkb...
    I love the size of my old Q10. I would buy a KEYᵒⁿᵉ mini like that although I know it would have to be a little taller.

    Posted via CB10
    01-16-18 08:06 PM
  12. conite's Avatar
    I love the size of my old Q10. I would buy a KEYᵒⁿᵉ mini like that although I know it would have to be a little taller.

    Posted via CB10
    A LOT taller. About 2" taller. And after that, I'm not sure it would be big enough to interact with a non-text UX.
    01-16-18 08:06 PM
  13. DamianWarS's Avatar
    Not sure there is room to go cheaper.... KEYone with natural depreciation is probable it.
    I'm not sure there's much room to go more expensive. It's already close to the pixel.

    Posted via CB10
    01-16-18 08:11 PM
  14. DamianWarS's Avatar
    A LOT taller. About 2" taller. And after that, I'm not sure it would be big enough to interact with a non-text UX.
    3.1 is the diagonal dimension of the Q10 screen. If my trig is right 3.1/√2 = 2.2 (nearest 1 decimal place) is the width/height of the Q10 screen.

    so if 2.2 is the "2" of the 3:2 ratio than 2.2 needs to be multiplied by 1.5 for the "3" part of the ratio (which is obviously 3.3). So the screen would have to be 3.3:2.2, almost a pure 3:2 ratio dimension.

    This is only 1.1 inches taller than the Q10 not factoring of course in the bezel design

    Posted via CB10
    01-16-18 08:35 PM
  15. conite's Avatar
    3.1 is the diagonal dimension of the Q10 screen. If my trig is right 3.1/√2 = 2.2 (nearest 1 decimal place) is the width/height of the Q10 screen.

    so if 2.2 is the "2" of the 3:2 ratio than 2.2 needs to be multiplied by 1.5 for the "3" part of the ratio (which is obviously 3.3). So the screen would have to be 3.3:2.2, almost a pure 3:2 ratio dimension.

    This is only 1.1 inches taller than the Q10 not factoring of course in the bezel design

    Posted via CB10
    I was expanding the screen width to eliminate the bezels, and going with 3:2. Just under 2" taller. But I still think it's academic, as it's just too small for Android.
    01-16-18 08:40 PM
  16. panopticon's Avatar
    What's comfortable about reaching up to the screen to type a number in or for punctuation? (See that "?" Was really easy and smooth on the KEYone without having to bring up vkb on screen for it)
    Ha ha...yes. The memories! To be fair though, as I said initially...I really see this larger (hypothetical) pkb as reaching out to Passport fans first and foremost. Hence the three row pkb and the big, no compromise screen. Most of the rest of us are happy with a more or less KeyONE sized device and 4 row pkb...if not a slightly slimmer KeyONE that is both lighter and with reduced bezels.
    Mrs Teapot likes this.
    01-16-18 08:40 PM
  17. Carjackd's Avatar
    The Passport keyboard was too good. So good it split the PKB crowd in half. TCL would be wise to at least take a shot at larger screen device with a three row keyboard. I suspect a good chunk of people still on BB10 are rocking a Passport. It was by far their best BB10 device.
    I agree IMO the passport was by far the best bb10 device the keyboard was amazing ..but the KEYone is probably the best keyboard I have used...and I’ve used a lot of physical keyboards. Everyone’s opinion is different . Nevertheless, I don’t expect to ever see a three rowed keyboard again as long as they continue using android we know we are not going to see a passport form factor on. Android as it wont work with a square screen. Any other option would just be ridiculous in size or they would have to cram keyboard together and it just wouldn’t be anything like a passport at all.
    01-16-18 09:31 PM
  18. Bbnivende's Avatar
    I was expanding the screen width to eliminate the bezels, and going with 3:2. Just under 2" taller. But I still think it's academic, as it's just too small for Android.
    With smaller bezels the phone would would have a Q10 keyboard size and approximately a screen size of about 4.1 inches.

    Technically the phone would work and have decent ergonomics. It would be pocketable but is there a market? Ultimately, I think that the PKB market is just not big enough but who knows. If it were cheap enough, it could be popular as sort of a "feature phone" / texting email device.
    01-16-18 10:55 PM
  19. Gajja's Avatar
    KEYᵒⁿᵉ is my favourite by far.

    Capacitive-touch without the giant carpal tunnel thumb travel.
    ...and bigger devices also can have issues with being top heavy, unless maybe using a ninja loop or similar. Actually it would be a good feature if the body of some of these devices had something molded in to take a ninja loop without needing to add a skin case, which is the only other way of keeping the loop in place.
    01-17-18 07:10 AM
  20. Gajja's Avatar
    Tried iphone X for almost an hour very much like it and really wish sooner they would put more and more bb10 gesture and might be multitasking in their updates. I am very much attracted towards it, my Passport is done I am surely gonna buy iphone X but no more BlackDroid . Period

    Peace

    Posted via CB10
    ...but that big chunk always missing out of the side of every landscape view video or photo, its not good, really not good. Paying a lot of money and getting a big chunk missing all the time.
    01-17-18 07:28 AM
  21. DamianWarS's Avatar
    With smaller bezels the phone would would have a Q10 keyboard size and approximately a screen size of about 4.1 inches.

    Technically the phone would work and have decent ergonomics. It would be pocketable but is there a market? Ultimately, I think that the PKB market is just not big enough but who knows. If it were cheap enough, it could be popular as sort of a "feature phone" / texting email device.
    Yet TCL has determined two PKB devices are warranted. Perhaps it's not a mini or an XL variant of the KEYᵒⁿᵉ but its something.
    Qorax and Mrs Teapot like this.
    01-17-18 07:30 AM
  22. DamianWarS's Avatar
    ...but that big chunk always missing out of the side of every landscape view video or photo, its not good, really not good. Paying a lot of money and getting a big chunk missing all the time.
    its all about perspective. you could say a chuck has been taken out or you could say the bezels were surrounded with screen. since the ratio is longer the same old iphone space is available even with the chunk.
    01-17-18 07:34 AM
  23. Gajja's Avatar
    The same way I hold up an iPhone 8+. Lol.

    Admittedly though, they would be well advised to make it thinner and lighter like an iPhone too!
    Isn't "thinner and lighter" just an excuse / marketing-talk, meaning they are skimping on the battery ;-)
    Qorax likes this.
    01-17-18 07:34 AM
  24. Gajja's Avatar
    its all about perspective. you could say a chuck has been taken out or you could say the bezels were surrounded with screen. since the ratio is longer the same old iphone space is available even with the chunk.
    All the same it would have been good if the image display was an actual rectangle instead of the odd shape that it is. Most things people want to run on the display are in fact rectangles.
    01-17-18 07:45 AM
  25. Lincoln Allen's Avatar
    I actually like the Keyone's keyboard I kinda like how it it's do big on the keys like the Classic and it stay four rows and mimics the Size of the Bold phones
    01-17-18 08:27 AM
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