04-24-18 08:59 AM
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  1. DamianWarS's Avatar
    Isn't TCL also going to give a go at the palm brand too. Palm and blackberry seem more like long game strategy

    Posted via CB10
    11-30-17 08:33 PM
  2. ToniCipriani's Avatar
    Are we linking to dissimilar past corporate investments? Here's one:

    https://www.cnet.com/news/google-buys-android/
    No, just triggering your compulsive need to defend BlackBerry (Mobile).
    11-30-17 09:04 PM
  3. twopack's Avatar
    TCL isn't going anywhere anytime soon. This move was more than most likely done to strengthen their device department while still maintaining control; believe me they didn't hit on the 49% number by chance.

    Steve said over and over that this was a multi year blueprint. This is a very long roadmap that has only just started to unfold.

    Heck just look at the keyone: had a major screen flaw, and yet they promptly jumped on a fix, got the new ones out to jerryrig, so on and so on. if they didn't care why this level of promptness, attention, etc. This is a rebuild and like anything will take time. And even if (for the sake of argument) TCL is have a rough year and 'losing money' so to speak, welcome to the corporate world. one bad year literally means nothing. Look at Samsung, their phone has been banned on every airline out there..and yet they're still alive and well..

    Just give it time..TCL is in for the long haul
    11-30-17 09:23 PM
  4. Carjackd's Avatar
    TCL isn't going anywhere anytime soon. This move was more than most likely done to strengthen their device department while still maintaining control; believe me they didn't hit on the 49% number by chance.

    Steve said over and over that this was a multi year blueprint. This is a very long roadmap that has only just started to unfold.

    Heck just look at the keyone: had a major screen flaw, and yet they promptly jumped on a fix, got the new ones out to jerryrig, so on and so on. if they didn't care why this level of promptness, attention, etc. This is a rebuild and like anything will take time. And even if (for the sake of argument) TCL is have a rough year and 'losing money' so to speak, welcome to the corporate world. one bad year literally means nothing. Look at Samsung, their phone has been banned on every airline out there..and yet they're still alive and well..

    Just give it time..TCL is in for the long haul
    Had this reiterated to me in person by Steve and others from BlackBerry Mobile at both the KEYone and Motion launch events.

    If I could like your post twice I would.
    11-30-17 10:41 PM
  5. twopack's Avatar
    Had this reiterated to me in person by Steve and others from BlackBerry Mobile at both the KEYone and Motion launch events.

    If I could like your post twice I would.
    Would've killed to make it to those launches..
    Carjackd likes this.
    11-30-17 11:56 PM
  6. Carjackd's Avatar
    Would've killed to make it to those launches..
    I was completely humbled to be invited.
    12-01-17 12:37 AM
  7. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    It's like you guys are ignoring the fact that TCL Communications was financially struggling. Shipments were down by 40% at the time they took protective measures to leave the HK Stock Exchange and take the company back private back in January. They are shipping half as many products at this point as they were in 2015. Which is why they needed to make some major changes and bring in this outside "help" to try some strategic restructuring (most sounds like it will be domestically focused).

    I just think those financial issues explain why they have invested so little into BBMo up to this point.

    All three licensees had big plans last year, but things changed once they start going to market. BB Merah Putih was gearing up for production of millions of devices, Optiemus was planning to release two devices back in June, and TCL had plans to release three devices this year..... plans change when you are faced with reality.

    Do you see the Motions limited release as a natural progression of the brand growing? Do you see them only now releasing the KEYone in Mexico as a sign of TCL strongly supporting BBMo? Do you see any sign of BBMo doing things to rebuild the BlackBerry brand in the eyes of Enterprise? Do you see a roadmap that Enterprise could use to make plans to use BBMo?

    I don't rule out that the transformation that TCL is going through right now won't include more focus on BBMo in the future. But I don't rule out TCL ending this relationship either.
    HostessCupcake likes this.
    12-01-17 08:13 AM
  8. conite's Avatar
    TCL had plans to release three devices this year..... plans change when you are faced with reality.

    Do you see the Motions limited release as a natural progression of the brand growing? Do you see them only now releasing the KEYone in Mexico as a sign of TCL strongly supporting BBMo? Do you see any sign of BBMo doing things to rebuild the BlackBerry brand in the eyes of Enterprise? Do you see a roadmap that Enterprise could use to make plans to use BBMo?
    TCL did release 3 phones - KEYᵒⁿᵉ SE, KEYᵒⁿᵉ BE, Motion.

    There is no frame of reference by which to compare all of the actions (or lack of actions) you are listing. For all we know, they are spending exactly what they had always intended to.
    TheGraduate likes this.
    12-01-17 08:24 AM
  9. Carjackd's Avatar
    TCL did release 3 phones - KEYᵒⁿᵉ SE, KEYᵒⁿᵉ BE, Motion.

    There is no frame of reference by which to compare all of the actions (or lack of actions) you are listing. For all we know, they are spending exactly what they had always intended to.
    You got and it was said numerous times to me.."they are early into this". They have accomplished quite a bit in such a short period of time".

    I'm prepared for the comeback... d'oh!
    Last edited by Carjackd; 12-01-17 at 09:41 AM.
    twopack and HostessCupcake like this.
    12-01-17 09:00 AM
  10. twopack's Avatar
    You go it and it was said numerous times to me.."they are early into this". They have accomplished quite a bit in such a short period of time".

    I'm prepared for the comeback... d'oh! https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...2b20b653a7.jpg
    The picture is killer haha
    12-01-17 09:09 AM
  11. thurask's Avatar
    TCL did release 3 phones - KEYᵒⁿᵉ SE, KEYᵒⁿᵉ BE, Motion.
    That should be two phones, but I guess that's their cop-out for 2017.
    HostessCupcake likes this.
    12-01-17 09:18 AM
  12. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    TCL did release 3 phones - KEYᵒⁿᵉ SE, KEYᵒⁿᵉ BE, Motion.

    There is no frame of reference by which to compare all of the actions (or lack of actions) you are listing. For all we know, they are spending exactly what they had always intended to.
    If the KEYone BE is a separate device, then TCL isn't afraid to use corporate doublespeak. Which puts into question anything they say but aren't willing to backup.... things like sales are better than expected.

    Very possible that they are spending what they always intended. TCL Communications money issues were known before they even partnered with BlackBerry, their going private had began late summer of 2016. But if that is the case, then TCL never planned to rebuild the brand to begin with. The plan was to see if the brand had value all on it own....

    I get it, you are happy with what they have managed to do this year and you are confident in what they have told you about the future.

    I just see too many similarity to 2012/2013....
    HostessCupcake likes this.
    12-01-17 09:26 AM
  13. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    It's like you guys are ignoring the fact that TCL Communications was financially struggling. Shipments were down by 40% at the time they took protective measures to leave the HK Stock Exchange and take the company back private back in January. They are shipping half as many products at this point as they were in 2015. Which is why they needed to make some major changes and bring in this outside "help" to try some strategic restructuring (most sounds like it will be domestically focused).

    I just think those financial issues explain why they have invested so little into BBMo up to this point.

    All three licensees had big plans last year, but things changed once they start going to market. BB Merah Putih was gearing up for production of millions of devices, Optiemus was planning to release two devices back in June, and TCL had plans to release three devices this year..... plans change when you are faced with reality.

    Do you see the Motions limited release as a natural progression of the brand growing? Do you see them only now releasing the KEYone in Mexico as a sign of TCL strongly supporting BBMo? Do you see any sign of BBMo doing things to rebuild the BlackBerry brand in the eyes of Enterprise? Do you see a roadmap that Enterprise could use to make plans to use BBMo?

    I don't rule out that the transformation that TCL is going through right now won't include more focus on BBMo in the future. But I don't rule out TCL ending this relationship either.
    I think you're misinterpreting the financial reports. Those are mostly trailing indicators of their business that they all knew when they licensed BlackBerry hardware.

    I have no idea that they'll succeed but their plan looks pretty sensible so far. They are getting global visibility for 2-3 phones a year. That's better than BlackBerry did in the BB10 era.

    It appears you think that TCL is too financially weak to execute an effective business plan. But I don't see the evidence of that that you do.



    Posted with my trusty Z10
    12-01-17 07:41 PM
  14. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    I think you're misinterpreting the financial reports. Those are mostly trailing indicators of their business that they all knew when they licensed BlackBerry hardware.

    I have no idea that they'll succeed but their plan looks pretty sensible so far. They are getting global visibility for 2-3 phones a year. That's better than BlackBerry did in the BB10 era.

    It appears you think that TCL is too financially weak to execute an effective business plan. But I don't see the evidence of that that you do.



    Posted with my trusty Z10
    There really isn't much in the way of trailing indicators after they licensed BlackBerry in Dec, as they went private in January and stopped reporting. Their financial problems began around the 1st of 2016, which lead them to announcing in Sept 2016 they were going to take the company private.... because the value of share were plummeting and affecting the value of TCL Corporation too.

    Yes I think TCL Communications financial problems are the reason that both Alcatel and BBMo have had limited support.

    Going forward we will have to see what these new investors bring in the way of change. I'm just saying TCL Corporations billions have not helped BBMo up to this point, see no reason to expect them to bail out the BlackBerry Brand if it's not able to gain any traction on it's own.
    12-04-17 07:46 AM
  15. HostessCupcake's Avatar
    BlackBerry Mobile were pretty clear they had underestimated demand for the KEYᵒⁿᵉ. So that can only be good, no?
    Still drinking the corporate kool-aid I see...that's just spin, if it was actually true they'd release sales figures.
    12-04-17 10:49 AM
  16. conite's Avatar
    Still drinking the corporate kool-aid I see...that's just spin, if it was actually true they'd release sales figures.
    They were very conservative with the initial estimates, so it's not an indication of a runaway success by any means.
    12-04-17 10:51 AM
  17. HostessCupcake's Avatar
    They were very conservative with the initial estimates, so it's not an indication of a runaway success by any means.
    Unless you have the numbers on their initial estimates and their actual sales, this is just speculation.
    12-04-17 10:54 AM
  18. conite's Avatar
    Unless you have the numbers on their initial estimates and their actual sales, this is just speculation.
    Yet you're not speculating when you say it's just spin?

    My information is accurate however. Take it or leave it.
    12-04-17 10:56 AM
  19. HostessCupcake's Avatar
    Yet you're not speculating when you say it's just spin?

    My information is accurate however. Take it or leave it.
    I speculate all the time. For example I believe they've sold less than 50k
    of the K1 worldwide.

    The difference is that I don't claim my speculations are totally accurate fact without any data to back them up.
    12-04-17 11:14 AM
  20. conite's Avatar
    I speculate all the time. For example I believe they've sold less than 50k
    of the K1 worldwide.

    The difference is that I don't claim my speculations are totally accurate fact without any data to back them up.
    Then you choose to "leave it". I don't care either way, and have no desire to debate you. Cheers.
    12-04-17 11:17 AM
  21. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Unless you have the numbers on their initial estimates and their actual sales, this is just speculation.
    If we all had facts... what would the point be of a forum
    TheGraduate likes this.
    12-04-17 11:52 AM
  22. stlabrat's Avatar
    not sure about you guys, I thought TCL did well for 2017 regarding BB brand handset (not sure about their TV, or other stuff, including dteck). they learned how to make KB phone, improved reception (from SE to BE), started pay attention to carrier (Bell, Rogers, etc as partner to sell its phones at discount - at least you don't need to worry about config problem if you go with carrier). With K1, assume the initial cost (MFG and testing) are recoverd. The K1 still in demand (not like essential) with follow on BE. The rest is collect on going cost but profit (fix cost assume is done... only variable cost for the adding of shipment). Being said that, look like they are slow learner in both customer support and marketing (very defensive player). especially, lack of capability of correct estimate market demand is shockingly surprise to me (smaller batch... can't fulfill the initial launch demand for months). As for the future challenge in 2018, no longer has BB design (can't take advantage of BB design group accumulated knowledge, including MFG, test, QA/FA know how), let's see if it can do better than what we saw (the proposed unit image didn't appear to me, let alone to have the BB design essence). pull a super spec is easy (sourcing and logistic might be difficult), to utilize a set of key parts and come out with super performance handset with esthetic design and priced at range that suitable to 80% of your customer (not spec catcher) will be a long road to perfection... hopefully, 2018 is a good start for TCL/BBM...- the 1st independence from BB but carrying BB flag (unless they found other DNA they wish to import - generate of its own based on what I see, might be a tall order at the moment).
    ddp_in likes this.
    12-04-17 12:28 PM
  23. FeitaInc's Avatar
    Well.. Both Snap and Gravis had limited supply initially with the Spectacles and their shoes, respectively. Snap had to do a massive write down on unsold Spectacles, as they found out that the hype the limited release caused didn't signal a massive market. For Gravis, the surprise came year three (I think) when, after doubling sales for a few years, they went out of fashion. So that BB Mobile is still doing a controlled roll out, seems prudent.

    I don't know what the story is for BlackBerry Mobile in where they are as opposed to where they planned to be, but as long as they keep on making phones like the KEYone and the Motion, I'll be a happy camper. It seems like they are making waves, albeit not so big as of yet.

    I sent in my KEYone for service after the screen came loose a couple of weeks back, which was right after the Motion arrived. The service level BBMo has shown me has been nothing short of excellent. If my experience is anything to go by, I think it will work out.
    Last edited by FeitaInc; 12-04-17 at 03:20 PM. Reason: made new section
    12-04-17 03:19 PM
  24. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    There really isn't much in the way of trailing indicators after they licensed BlackBerry in Dec, as they went private in January and stopped reporting. Their financial problems began around the 1st of 2016, which lead them to announcing in Sept 2016 they were going to take the company private.... because the value of share were plummeting and affecting the value of TCL Corporation too.

    Yes I think TCL Communications financial problems are the reason that both Alcatel and BBMo have had limited support.

    Going forward we will have to see what these new investors bring in the way of change. I'm just saying TCL Corporations billions have not helped BBMo up to this point, see no reason to expect them to bail out the BlackBerry Brand if it's not able to gain any traction on it's own.
    The point of BBMo's relationship with the larger TCL is that it can leverage the larger company's manufacturing capabilities, not that it can count on them to "bail them out." There's no reason that BBMo should have to lose a lot of money to grow the BlackBerry brand over 2-3 years. We're not talking about high volumes here.

    It's a low risk, low investment approach. The worst case is a loss of millions, not billions, and the best case is a return of 100s of millions in a few years. Small potatoes compared to Apple and Samsung, but that is the game for BBMo.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    12-04-17 05:55 PM
  25. stlabrat's Avatar
    TCL/BBM better do well... BB is counting on its cash to pay nokia for 137 million possibly.
    As for small drop/drop launch, I have no objection to launch by "multiply rats" - replicated additional assembly line quickly... but it appear to be TCL/BBM didn't react that quickly... I am suspect their assembly line are not standard set platform, but mix-matched. therefore, it is not easy to transfer tech from one line to the other... (need new reflow profile if one line is 12 zone and the other is 9 zone for example...). that will possibly related to the variation quality of the handset as we saw it in the field. thx god there is only one KB phone in market, otherwise, you got ran over by bus if it react so slow to customer demend.
    12-04-17 07:24 PM
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