02-08-18 03:50 PM
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  1. hkgnyc's Avatar
    I got a DTEK60 performance survey so it's obviously full touch, then.
    Lol. I did say "could".

    Sent from my BBB100-7 using CB Forums mobile app
    10-29-17 11:20 AM
  2. Marcin Dabrowsky's Avatar
    Finally I had decided to buy K1 black edition ow this rumor.... Darn it :-/
    I pulled the trigger on one 2 days ago... its coming Tuesday . I don’t care about this news... I will still enjoy the Black Edition. New models and upgrades are always coming out. Think about it this way, how long did it take BBM to figure out the kinks and issues (screen popping out) before they started manufacturing and delivering solid units? I think the Black Edition just might be the grown up edition without any early issues. This buys you an additional 4-5 months. So if the new phone comes out in the next 6 months, you’ll want to give it 4-5 months before they work out the kinks again (hopefully there wont be any but there probably will). This basically ogives you a solid year of use of a well put together phone.

    Enjoy it for what it is. I know I will!
    Sick Viscous likes this.
    10-29-17 12:10 PM
  3. idssteve's Avatar
    Fwiw, my personal objection to every slider to date is that they hide the PKB in shame BEHIND the screen, when stowed. I, for one, find zero use for super tall display while actually typing... who actually looks at more than a few lines while typing? ?

    No small part of Blackberry PKB experience includes PKB shortcuts. PKB shortcuts provide a fabulously welcome, if crudely implemented, feature on K1. What good would these PKB shortcuts be if hidden behind an oversized screen of a conventional slider? If some future slider steps outside of the established box, and bravely stows the pkb in FRONT of the lower part of display, PKB shortcuts would be readily available and typing comfort GREATLY improved... the tall display would still be available while PKB is extended. Who cares how long the device is while movie watching? Lol.

    Of course that's a configuration "glass phreaks" will never comprehend or accept. Let alone design. AND those same "glass phreaks" will never bother to ask "PKB phreaks" or even accept their replies so... lol.
    app_Developer likes this.
    10-29-17 02:22 PM
  4. TheBirdDog's Avatar
    Fwiw, my personal objection to every slider to date is that they hide the PKB in shame BEHIND the screen, when stowed. I, for one, find zero use for super tall display while actually typing... who actually looks at more than a few lines while typing? ?

    No small part of Blackberry PKB experience includes PKB shortcuts. PKB shortcuts provide a fabulously welcome, if crudely implemented, feature on K1. What good would these PKB shortcuts be if hidden behind an oversized screen of a conventional slider? If some future slider steps outside of the established box, and bravely stows the pkb in FRONT of the lower part of display, PKB shortcuts would be readily available and typing comfort GREATLY improved... the tall display would still be available while PKB is extended. Who cares how long the device is while movie watching? Lol.

    Of course that's a configuration "glass phreaks" will never comprehend or accept. Let alone design. AND those same "glass phreaks" will never bother to ask "PKB phreaks" or even accept their replies so... lol.
    I'm not sure exactly with what you have in mind with your 'outside of the established box' design but there is a patent kicking around of a keyboard that is deployed in sort of a slider but it also pops up so that it becomes flush with the screen, similar to the existing pkb devices we've seen before (like the KEYone).

    For me, the slider form is less about having a gigantic screen and more about having a compact form. To me, this is another area where the Priv failed a bit. The overall device was gigantic. I mean, they literally went with their biggest screen to date AND made it a slider. That is a contradiction to me as it ignores the advantage of a more compact footprint when the keyboard isn't in use.

    I would be EXTREMELY curious to see how the design of a slider with the screen relatively the same size of a KEYone would do. As physical keyboard enthusiasts can also attest to, a pkb inherently keeps the usable display relatively large because the keyboard doesn't need to take up any additional screen real estate.

    In my opinion, the correct way to market the slider would be to both PKB enthusiasts AND to people who want a more compact device. People who want a gigantic display are probably, as you've so aptly called them 'glass phreaks' and they are going to go after as much display as they can, probably not giving any devices but the existing phablets a second look. The slider is not for them and doesn't need to have a huge display.
    ominaxe and Parker_Lewis like this.
    10-29-17 05:23 PM
  5. idssteve's Avatar
    I'm not sure exactly with what you have in mind with your 'outside of the established box' design but there is a patent kicking around of a keyboard that is deployed in sort of a slider but it also pops up so that it becomes flush with the screen, similar to the existing pkb devices we've seen before (like the KEYone).

    For me, the slider form is less about having a gigantic screen and more about having a compact form. To me, this is another area where the Priv failed a bit. The overall device was gigantic. I mean, they literally went with their biggest screen to date AND made it a slider. That is a contradiction to me as it ignores the advantage of a more compact footprint when the keyboard isn't in use.

    I would be EXTREMELY curious to see how the design of a slider with the screen relatively the same size of a KEYone would do. As physical keyboard enthusiasts can also attest to, a pkb inherently keeps the usable display relatively large because the keyboard doesn't need to take up any additional screen real estate.

    In my opinion, the correct way to market the slider would be to both PKB enthusiasts AND to people who want a more compact device. People who want a gigantic display are probably, as you've so aptly called them 'glass phreaks' and they are going to go after as much display as they can, probably not giving any devices but the existing phablets a second look. The slider is not for them and doesn't need to have a huge display.
    Well, K1's PKB plus "virtual toolbelt" (whatever it's called) measures about 1.75" tall. It's display is about 3.75" tall. Roughly ideally (if that makes sense lol) retracting a 1.75" tall PKB+toolbelt up & over to cover the lower part of that 3.75" tall screen would leave about 2" tall screen showing for use during typing, talking, etc. AND would preserve PKB shortcut availability under all conditions. See what I mean?

    The display would need to rotate to horizontal 2/3 while PKB is retracted. Vertical 3/2 while PKB is extended. ???

    Overall length should be about 4" when retracted and would remain that same short length while typing or calling or utilizing the readily available PKB shortcuts. See what I mean? An extended kb should yield the same OAL as K1, imo.

    If any of that makes sense. Of course it would require someone who actually uses and appreciates BB's PKB to appreciate the concept. Lol. "Glass phreaks" will never understand why anyone would even want a PKB nor any physical keys or buttons of ANY kind. Nor can they accept that anyone might like a handset sized to fit a hand, let alone a pocket. Lol. Oh well, I'm used to minority status. Lol.

    EDIT: Just read the whole thread and realize I'm somewhat off topic. My apologies.
    Mrs Teapot likes this.
    10-29-17 07:01 PM
  6. panopticon's Avatar
    Lol. I did say "could".

    Sent from my BBB100-7 using CB Forums mobile app
    Sorry, back to pkb. I got the survey too...one month old black edition. Lol
    10-29-17 08:51 PM
  7. herbersh's Avatar
    I pulled the trigger on one 2 days ago... its coming Tuesday . I don’t care about this news... I will still enjoy the Black Edition. New models and upgrades are always coming out. Think about it this way, how long did it take BBM to figure out the kinks and issues (screen popping out) before they started manufacturing and delivering solid units? I think the Black Edition just might be the grown up edition without any early issues. This buys you an additional 4-5 months. So if the new phone comes out in the next 6 months, you’ll want to give it 4-5 months before they work out the kinks again (hopefully there wont be any but there probably will). This basically ogives you a solid year of use of a well put together phone.

    Enjoy it for what it is. I know I will!
    ^ this. The black is a better phone. I'm enjoying the keyboard much more on the black. Feels 'clickier'.

    Looks great too.
    Sick Viscous likes this.
    10-29-17 09:59 PM
  8. Azumarill's Avatar
    Seeing as we can only deal in vague speculation at present, here's one suggestion: has some understanding has been reached with Verizon?

    I think we have well passed the point of a VZW variant KEYone being a possibility, but it's not impossible that they have expressed interest in a PKB device conditional on some changes being made in a successor. The different variants unearthed could follow an initially exclusive release.

    I don't have a suggestion otherwise as to why the KEYone would be being refreshed so quickly, particularly after the rollout of the Black Edition. A higher-end PKB device for Optiemus or BB Merah Putih doesn't seem logical at this stage either.
    10-30-17 06:10 AM
  9. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Seeing as we can only deal in vague speculation at present, here's one suggestion: has some understanding has been reached with Verizon?

    I think we have well passed the point of a VZW variant KEYone being a possibility, but it's not impossible that they have expressed interest in a PKB device conditional on some changes being made in a successor. The different variants unearthed could follow an initially exclusive release.

    I don't have a suggestion otherwise as to why the KEYone would be being refreshed so quickly, particularly after the rollout of the Black Edition. A higher-end PKB device for Optiemus or BB Merah Putih doesn't seem logical at this stage either.
    I think if Verizon, there would be info on CDMA included. Earliest comments on thread mentioned no CDMA version info yet....
    10-30-17 06:57 AM
  10. Spinnp's Avatar
    No love for landscape slider with wider pkb hidden underneath the length of the screen? Like the Nokia E7 or the prototype Nokia N9 form factor.
    10-30-17 07:26 AM
  11. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    No love for landscape slider with wider pkb hidden underneath the length of the screen? Like the Nokia E7 or the prototype Nokia N9 form factor.
    No love for any sliders, even ala PRIV. For any company, financially struggling or not, there has to be the expectation of profit. BlackBerry proved with the PRIV, that device costs too much to make and therefore had to be priced high.

    Be thankful KEYone exists..... If you want a PKB...
    10-30-17 07:45 AM
  12. Azumarill's Avatar
    I think if Verizon, there would be info on CDMA included. Earliest comments on thread mentioned no CDMA version info yet....
    I agree, but the fact is that there just aren't enough variants yet, if the past is anything to go by. Generic CDMA versions of the KEYone and Motion emerged very quickly in config files; a carrier-only version for Verizon might have a different trajectory.

    All that aside, I was inclined towards believing that Verizon would begin with an all-touch model, if at all.
    10-30-17 07:56 AM
  13. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    I agree, but the fact is that there just aren't enough variants yet, if the past is anything to go by. Generic CDMA versions of the KEYone and Motion emerged very quickly in config files; a carrier-only version for Verizon might have a different trajectory.

    All that aside, I was inclined towards believing that Verizon would begin with an all-touch model, if at all.
    I think Verizon is letting AT&T be the crash test dummy for the KEYone and if AT&T handles, the Motion as well.
    10-30-17 08:05 AM
  14. TheBirdDog's Avatar
    No love for any sliders, even ala PRIV. For any company, financially struggling or not, there has to be the expectation of profit. BlackBerry proved with the PRIV, that device costs too much to make and therefore had to be priced high.

    Be thankful KEYone exists..... If you want a PKB...
    The Priv used nothing but new components for BlackBerry - software AND hardware. Everything from the processor (obviously a fail, in hindsight) to the screen, the camera, keyboard, literally the whole kit was comprised of new components. It shouldn't be a new concept that buying all new things in small quantities is expensive.

    It would be entirely more possible for TCL to use many of the same components of the KEYone / Motion devices to be able to make a slider type device at a lower cost.

    BlackBerry didn't 'prove' anything with the Priv, except perhaps to shareholders that remaining in the hardware business was not financially viable for them as a company. This actually could have been their intention all along, however, as it was seemingly the piece of the puzzle they needed to make their official transition to a 'software company'.
    10-30-17 08:13 AM
  15. conite's Avatar
    The Priv used nothing but new components for BlackBerry - software AND hardware. Everything from the processor (obviously a fail, in hindsight) to the screen, the camera, keyboard, literally the whole kit was comprised of new components. It shouldn't be a new concept that buying all new things in small quantities is expensive.

    It would be entirely more possible for TCL to use many of the same components of the KEYone / Motion devices to be able to make a slider type device at a lower cost.

    BlackBerry didn't 'prove' anything with the Priv, except perhaps to shareholders that remaining in the hardware business was not financially viable for them as a company. This actually could have been their intention all along, however, as it was seemingly the piece of the puzzle they needed to make their official transition to a 'software company'.
    I'm with Chuck on this one.

    Too many unique mechanisms and components to achieve reasonable economies of scale.

    Too many failure points to keep support costs down.

    Half the advantages of the physical keyboard are all the shortcuts - rendered useless when tucked away.
    10-30-17 08:46 AM
  16. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    The Priv used nothing but new components for BlackBerry - software AND hardware. Everything from the processor (obviously a fail, in hindsight) to the screen, the camera, keyboard, literally the whole kit was comprised of new components. It shouldn't be a new concept that buying all new things in small quantities is expensive.

    It would be entirely more possible for TCL to use many of the same components of the KEYone / Motion devices to be able to make a slider type device at a lower cost.

    BlackBerry didn't 'prove' anything with the Priv, except perhaps to shareholders that remaining in the hardware business was not financially viable for them as a company. This actually could have been their intention all along, however, as it was seemingly the piece of the puzzle they needed to make their official transition to a 'software company'.
    The form/style of the device is a subset of a niche. People buy VKB, PKB and Slider in that order. It will cost more than PKB to make and offers the promise of fewer sales. Using the model of separate devices encourages consumers to purchase two devices. The PRIV like the 9800/9810 sliders were testing devices, more about Android or larger screen while offering the familiar PKB if needed.

    Consumers at every level are usually followers, not trendsetters or innovators.
    10-30-17 08:54 AM
  17. valer466's Avatar
    Will we see a windermere or atleast something close to it from TCL- Given that BBOS/10 had those.
    10-30-17 10:34 AM
  18. conite's Avatar
    Will we see a windermere or atleast something close to it from TCL- Given that BBOS/10 had those.
    You will not see a Passport form factor.
    10-30-17 11:14 AM
  19. michaelakid's Avatar
    You will not see a Passport form factor.
    Do you think will see an expanded keyboard? I would like to see a taller keyboard layout.
    10-30-17 02:42 PM
  20. conite's Avatar
    Do you think will see an expanded keyboard? I would like to see a taller keyboard layout.
    You never know, but I doubt it.

    They have a winning design now, so they would do well to stick to it in order to keep costs down.
    10-30-17 02:43 PM
  21. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Do you think will see an expanded keyboard? I would like to see a taller keyboard layout.
    Well if Samsung can make a fold out screen a viable consumer product... who know what kinda of wide format fold out keyboard/screen combo "could" be made....


    Would they... probable not for a number of years yet.
    10-30-17 03:57 PM
  22. dflyer's Avatar
    I wouldn't want them to have too many different devices. It just becomes too fragmented. Also, you start creating frustration when a device is purchased then another better option come available shortly thereafter. A good PKB and VKB that they have now. It would be nice to see these devices all have similar specs. The Silver. BE and SB drives me nuts trying to figure what is what and availability of it in my region. I am still waiting for my carrier to supply the BE.
    10-31-17 05:11 PM
  23. TheBirdDog's Avatar
    I wouldn't want them to have too many different devices. It just becomes too fragmented. Also, you start creating frustration when a device is purchased then another better option come available shortly thereafter. A good PKB and VKB that they have now. It would be nice to see these devices all have similar specs. The Silver. BE and SB drives me nuts trying to figure what is what and availability of it in my region. I am still waiting for my carrier to supply the BE.
    There is a good chance that your carrier won't ever have the Black Edition. If you're in North America, it seems that Telus and AT&T have their own version which is literally identical to the silver internally and only a different colour. The actual Black Edition with upgraded specs is available only factory unlocked. Personally, I see nothing wrong with this model. One for carriers and then a limited edition for the "prosumer" who know where to look for the device that they want. They did pretty much the exact same thing with the Passport and the Silver Edition.
    10-31-17 06:58 PM
  24. thurask's Avatar
    I wouldn't want them to have too many different devices. It just becomes too fragmented. Also, you start creating frustration when a device is purchased then another better option come available shortly thereafter. A good PKB and VKB that they have now. It would be nice to see these devices all have similar specs. The Silver. BE and SB drives me nuts trying to figure what is what and availability of it in my region. I am still waiting for my carrier to supply the BE.
    The only reason there's this confusion is because their launch process was horrible; cutting down on variants (silver 4/64 or black 4/64 only) and launching every variant within a short period of time instead of dragging it out through most of 2017 would mean that this BBF100-x would be the yearly refresh rather than having to coexist.
    herbersh and Parker_Lewis like this.
    10-31-17 07:00 PM
  25. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    The only reason there's this confusion is because their launch process was horrible; cutting down on variants (silver 4/64 or black 4/64 only) and launching every variant within a short period of time instead of dragging it out through most of 2017 would mean that this BBF100-x would be the yearly refresh rather than having to coexist.
    Probably right, but me thinks cash flow problem worse than originally suspected for TCL/BBMo.
    10-31-17 08:18 PM
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