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04-24-18 09:59 AM
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  1. Crusader03's Avatar
    Hello gang. Very interesting read. I was BB up until and including the 9900. Been with iphone since, always loved BB! Would pick up the Keyone with 4gigs ram in a heartbeat, but not in black. Hoping new release will again offer the steroid version in Silver. Guess now I wait. Typing this response from my iPhone! Lmao!
    mlb88 likes this.
    01-02-18 11:43 PM
  2. Eduard Pertinez's Avatar
    I do have a Priv. I bought it in April this year with a very interesting price. I owned a KEYone for a week or so and I gave it away to my mother (I had to choose). I like both phones but BIG SCREEN is the major point here for me. All big companies such as APPLE and SAMSUNG do have a double sized phones portfolio. Normal (large) phones and Extra Large phones. That is because some prefer smaller (a little bit cheapper) phones and some prefer bigger ones. That is the way it is. It makes no sense to argue about it.

    In BB world that difference is seen in KEYone vs PRIV (vs MOTION) form factor. Some will prefer "always ready" keyboard/smaller screen, some will prefer "powerfull" slidding feeling/bigger screen and some no buttons whatsoever. As I told you, I am on the second category. But all of them exist.

    Price is not a reason for not building sliders. PRIV has been sold by half the price they were announced, only a year after. Yes, they may have got a bunch of them and so on, yet they must have lost not a big amount of money in the selling, I guess.
    If an slider costs a hundred bugs more to build, simply add up a hundred bugs in the final price (not 200). Problem solved.

    Another point. PRIV failure on selling is in no way indicative of anything related to the form factor. First of all, there was a clear bias on the customer side on not buying into Android. We all wanted our BB10 to survive, so we were not eager to buy an Android phone when it came out. Add up some very bad reviews and quite expensive launching price and you have a big failure that has nothing to do with slider factor. It was, surely, an impossible to avoid transition. RIM needed experience in Android. And you only learn from your mistakes or the problems that arise.

    Now, in my humble opinion I think BBM should consider things very differently. They should understand their product the same way that Samsung Galaxy S series or Apple do. The form factor should not define the machine but the inside components should. S8 and S8+ and iPhone 8 and 8 Plus share the same specs. They are mainly the same products. They share development expenses. On the same manner, I would expect BBM to announce the three phones at the same time MOTION, KEY and PRIV with the same insides and only external differences. No keys, Static keys, slider. That would give a "every year renewed" portfolio to BBM for a fraction of the cost of developing three different devices. And all followers would have their yearly upgrade phone if they wanted to.
    mbert and Trisk333 like this.
    01-03-18 06:09 AM
  3. mbert's Avatar
    In BB world that difference is seen in KEYone vs PRIV (vs MOTION) form factor. Some will prefer "always ready" keyboard/smaller screen, some will prefer "powerfull" slidding feeling/bigger screen and some no buttons whatsoever. As I told you, I am on the second category. But all of them exist.
    I cannot "like" (and agree with) this post enough.

    This is exactly how I feel about it (same for the rest of what you write). I have hesitated to buy the KeyONE mainly because I like my PRIV's big screen and form factor too much, and this even though my Android version is not the latest anymore, battery life could be better and some apps are laggy on my phone. Still it is just the phone I like and want.

    Now, since BB have decided to end updates (which I find is an outrageous decision for a company targeting a professional target group) I'll have to consider which phone to get some time this year. I hope I am going to like the KeyTWO (or whatever its name will be), otherwise I might end up with an iPhone though I'd hate to live without a physical keyboard.
    CrackPriv likes this.
    01-03-18 01:56 PM
  4. Azumarill's Avatar
    BlackBerry Mobile have just confirmed a CES appearance on Instagram. Still hopeful there will be some kind of allusion to this device.
    01-06-18 03:59 PM
  5. DamianWarS's Avatar
    BlackBerry Mobile have just confirmed a CES appearance on Instagram. Still hopeful there will be some kind of allusion to this device.
    The CB team are doubtful. It's hard to say how much they are in the loop but not allowed to disclose so just act like they don't know but still throw hints around

    Posted via CB10
    01-06-18 04:25 PM
  6. Azumarill's Avatar
    The CB team are doubtful. It's hard to say how much they are in the loop but not allowed to disclose so just act like they don't know but still throw hints around

    Posted via CB10
    Yeah, that was very much the impression in the podcast. Part of me would be surprised if they didn't capitalise on CES in some capacity after the success they had last year. The KEYone has had significant price cuts in the UK market for several months now, so I'm ambivalent as to how much a higher-end prototype would eat into its sales.
    01-06-18 04:45 PM
  7. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Yeah, that was very much the impression in the podcast. Part of me would be surprised if they didn't capitalise on CES in some capacity after the success they had last year. The KEYone has had significant price cuts in the UK market for several months now, so I'm ambivalent as to how much a higher-end prototype would eat into its sales.
    Well, the beauty of BlackBerry Mobile 's just in time manufacturing for the KEYone is that they don't have much excess inventory to worry about before launching the KEYtwo!


    Posted with my trusty Z10
    01-06-18 04:58 PM
  8. Marcin Dabrowsky's Avatar
    how would you know what their inventory levels are?
    01-07-18 06:18 PM
  9. DamianWarS's Avatar
    Yeah, that was very much the impression in the podcast. Part of me would be surprised if they didn't capitalise on CES in some capacity after the success they had last year. The KEYone has had significant price cuts in the UK market for several months now, so I'm ambivalent as to how much a higher-end prototype would eat into its sales.
    I think they need to be more aggressive with their launch for this device then they were last year. If they tease something at CES they need to be ready to launch in the first quarter otherwise. If they wait until may then blackberry has yet another device with a year + old tech... at least release something before the chipset is a year old.

    It will no doubt upset people with the KEYᵒⁿᵉ but it happens. I remember I bought the "the new iPad" as soon as it came out when their iPad release times where in the spring. Then 6 months later an iPad is released that's twice as fast. You agree to what you pay for when you buy it and the manufacturer owes you nothing else.

    Posted via CB10
    01-07-18 07:58 PM
  10. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    how would you know what their inventory levels are?
    Well, if you're asking me to prove it conclusively, I can't. But we've seen how they replenish stock around the world, channel by channel, model by model, and we've seen their repeated stock outs. So, it's logical to infer that they are manufacturing in small batches as needed to fill the channels.

    In addition, a TCL rep told me that, historically, TCL manufactured it's products to order to avoid excess inventory, and that's why they were stocking out of the KEYone In North America in early summer.

    Feel free to draw your own conclusions, of course, but I believe the scenario that best fits the evidence at hand: history of manufacturing to order + rolling releases and regional stock outs => small batch production of the "economic order quantity" based on proven actual demand.

    There's simply zero evidence of them manufacturing large quantities speculatively.



    Posted with my trusty Z10
    Marcin Dabrowsky likes this.
    01-07-18 07:58 PM
  11. DamianWarS's Avatar
    PCmag is quoted saying "CES is not the big cell phone show. That's Mobile World Congress, in Barcelona at the end of February, and that's probably where you're going to see many of the big hitters of the mobile phone world ... That leaves less prominent announcements on the CES stages ... BlackBerry will announce the US availability of its touch-screen BlackBerry Motion." we will see what happens but they are probably right and MWC is a better place for a new device.
    Marcin Dabrowsky likes this.
    01-07-18 11:43 PM
  12. ToniCipriani's Avatar
    PCmag is quoted saying "CES is not the big cell phone show. That's Mobile World Congress, in Barcelona at the end of February, and that's probably where you're going to see many of the big hitters of the mobile phone world ... That leaves less prominent announcements on the CES stages ... BlackBerry will announce the US availability of its touch-screen BlackBerry Motion." we will see what happens but they are probably right and MWC is a better place for a new device.
    Pretty much the same message as last year, just replace Motion with KEYone, and US availability with the name itself.
    Qorax likes this.
    01-08-18 07:59 PM
  13. Azumarill's Avatar
    Interesting as it would have been to hear something more about this device today, I thought the messaging at CES was positive and on-point.

    New devices in the pipeline, including physical keyboard models. KEYone selling well enough to warrant further expansion. US availability for the Motion. Oreo update in progress.

    This PCMag article is an interesting read - Mahieu and Lejeune articulating a little more about the US strategy, and seem to be actively working on the Verizon problem.
    01-09-18 01:46 PM
  14. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Interesting as it would have been to hear something more about this device today, I thought the messaging at CES was positive and on-point.

    New devices in the pipeline, including physical keyboard models. KEYone selling well enough to warrant further expansion. US availability for the Motion. Oreo update in progress.

    This PCMag article is an interesting read - Mahieu and Lejeune articulating a little more about the US strategy, and seem to be actively working on the Verizon problem.
    Making a device compatible with Verizon is one thing, getting Verizon to carry that device(s) is what BBMo has to do in order to be a viable vendor for Enterprise. Even if it's only online purchases, as long as Enterprise can buy it via the carrier.

    But Alcatel being #4 or #5 in the US Smartphone market.... wonder where he pulled that figure from?
    01-09-18 03:03 PM
  15. Sigewif's Avatar
    I actually can't wait to see the new device's design. Since my beloved PRIV is now out of support, I'd really appreciate another slider, but I understand that this is quite unlikely to happen.

    I am still getting approached by people in the bus on my way to work asking me what kind of device my PRIV is and whether it's worth getting. I usually said that it is a wonderful device now available to a more than fair price. But after the recent news I'll have to give a different assessment.
    My PRIV has been awesome and still very much in use. I have a KEYone as well and use them both, side by side. I got an extra sim from T-Mobile one time when they were having a promo. The PRIV is the one I reach for when I want that spacious screen, and frankly, the keyboard is comfortable for me to use. I am a heavy PKB user. It is as comfortable to type on as my KEYone and the keys are a little more responsive. I have the silver KEYone and don't know if they differ. Slightly rounded corners would be nice on the PRIV. The KEYone is better in that way. I would love a new slider like the PRIV with flagship everything.
    Wezard and Trisk333 like this.
    01-09-18 10:42 PM
  16. idssteve's Avatar
    My PRIV has been awesome and still very much in use. I have a KEYone as well and use them both, side by side. I got an extra sim from T-Mobile one time when they were having a promo. The PRIV is the one I reach for when I want that spacious screen, and frankly, the keyboard is comfortable for me to use. I am a heavy PKB user. It is as comfortable to type on as my KEYone and the keys are a little more responsive. I have the silver KEYone and don't know if they differ. Slightly rounded corners would be nice on the PRIV. The KEYone is better in that way. I would love a new slider like the PRIV with flagship everything.
    My complaint with "typical" sliders is that they hide the KB behind the screen when stowed. No good for shortcut and speed dial use. Then, they make the overall length longer than needed while typing. Who actually looks at more than a few lines while typing?

    My "dream slider" would stow the retracted KB in FRONT of the lower part of the screen. Making it readily available for shortcuts and speed dial. And providing better, shorter, balance while typing... Leaving enough screen visible for typing and other critical tasks and notifications.

    Then, the KB could slide down to reveal the full sized screen, when desired. Who cares how long the handset is while watching movies? Lol.

    Obviously, screen would need to transition from 1080x720 2:3 landscape in upper portion while kb is stowed, to 1080x1620 3:2 portrait when kb is extended. No clue if android supports 1080x720???

    Add Classic's toolbelt and that's MY dream config... Compact when compact is needed. Large when large is needed. Win-win, imo. Still dreaming... Lol.
    01-29-18 01:53 PM
  17. DamianWarS's Avatar
    My complaint with "typical" sliders is that they hide the KB behind the screen when stowed. No good for shortcut and speed dial use. Then, they make the overall length longer than needed while typing. Who actually looks at more than a few lines while typing?

    My "dream slider" would stow the retracted KB in FRONT of the lower part of the screen. Making it readily available for shortcuts and speed dial. And providing better, shorter, balance while typing... Leaving enough screen visible for typing and other critical tasks and notifications.

    Then, the KB could slide down to reveal the full sized screen, when desired. Who cares how long the handset is while watching movies? Lol.

    Obviously, screen would need to transition from 1080x720 2:3 landscape in upper portion while kb is stowed, to 1080x1620 3:2 portrait when kb is extended. No clue if android supports 1080x720???

    Add Classic's toolbelt and that's MY dream config... Compact when compact is needed. Large when large is needed. Win-win, imo. Still dreaming... Lol.
    Sounds a bit the "Visa Victoria" patent
    http://crackberry.com/blackberry-vis...ting-keyboards

    Posted via CB10
    Qorax likes this.
    01-29-18 03:55 PM
  18. idssteve's Avatar
    Sounds a bit the "Visa Victoria" patent
    http://crackberry.com/blackberry-vis...ting-keyboards

    Posted via CB10
    Hmm... could be ?? idk... seems like they're mentioning a cover of some sort over part of the keyboard... idk..

    The keyboard on Passport, KeyOne, Classic, 9900 etc survive satisfactorily without being covered. Why hide it? Hiding the keyboard limits access to speed dials and shortcuts. A BIG part of BB PKB experience. Imo.

    The major attraction I have to slider concept is compactness. But, sliding the kb behind the screen might make sense to "glass phreaks" who value screenestate above all else but makes precious little sense to us PKB phreaks.

    A PKB phreak prioritizes pkb functionality over screenestate. I say, slide the slider's pkb in FRONT of the lower part of the screen to optimize pkb functionality. But permit the keyboard to uncover and expose the full screen while extended. Just my dream. Lol.

    Crude measurements on KeyOne indicates pkb/toolbelt might occupy about 1.6" of handset length. A 1080x720 upper portion of K1's screen would also occupy roughly 1.6" of handset length, while that slider PKB is retracted and stowed in FRONT of the lower half of screen. Too tiny for watching movies but plenty of space for typing and many critical activities. Overall length of the retracted slider of under 4" might be achievable... depending...

    Extending the keyboard would then expose the full 1080x1620 4.5" screen for other activities. Trackpad/toolbelt would make navigating and text selection quite easy on the tiny screen. AND make text selection and reaching distant corners of the larger screen much easier than anything K1 does currently. Imo.
    01-29-18 04:56 PM
  19. DamianWarS's Avatar
    Hmm... could be ?? idk... seems like they're mentioning a cover of some sort over part of the keyboard... idk..

    The keyboard on Passport, KeyOne, Classic, 9900 etc survive satisfactorily without being covered. Why hide it? Hiding the keyboard limits access to speed dials and shortcuts. A BIG part of BB PKB experience. Imo.

    The major attraction I have to slider concept is compactness. But, sliding the kb behind the screen might make sense to "glass phreaks" who value screenestate above all else but makes precious little sense to us PKB phreaks.

    A PKB phreak prioritizes pkb functionality over screenestate. I say, slide the slider's pkb in FRONT of the lower part of the screen to optimize pkb functionality. But permit the keyboard to uncover and expose the full screen while extended. Just my dream. Lol.

    Crude measurements on KeyOne indicates pkb/toolbelt might occupy about 1.6" of handset length. A 1080x720 upper portion of K1's screen would also occupy roughly 1.6" of handset length, while that slider PKB is retracted and stowed in FRONT of the lower half of screen. Too tiny for watching movies but plenty of space for typing and many critical activities. Overall length of the retracted slider of under 4" might be achievable... depending...

    Extending the keyboard would then expose the full 1080x1620 4.5" screen for other activities. Trackpad/toolbelt would make navigating and text selection quite easy on the tiny screen. AND make text selection and reaching distant corners of the larger screen much easier than anything K1 does currently. Imo.
    that's basically this "visa victoria" patent except the keyboard doesn't fold over the screen. The keyboard still slides back inside like a typical slider but the top row remains for things like convenience keys.

    Whatever the BBF100-1 is-600x893xslider_pic3-600x893.png.pagespeed.ic_.n480wvpoat.png

    some sort of retraction back into the device while keeping the top row.
    Attached Thumbnails Whatever the BBF100-1 is-uspto_blackberry_visa_2.jpg  
    Qorax likes this.
    01-29-18 05:27 PM
  20. idssteve's Avatar
    that's basically this "visa victoria" patent except the keyboard doesn't fold over the screen. The keyboard still slides back inside like a typical slider but the top row remains for things like convenience keys.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	600x893xSlider_pic3-600x893.png.pagespeed.ic_.N480wvPOat.png 
Views:	145 
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    some sort of retraction back into the device while keeping the top row.
    Ah, I see... At least a step in the direction. . Now, if they'd reverse the concept and slide the lower half of the screen behind the keyboard, they'd preserve shortcut & speed dial availability while providing a compact handset for typing. If that makes sense. I'd MUCH rather type on a 4" tall handset than the k1 or Priv. Imo.

    Using K1 screen and keyboard dimensions, it's also possible that the extended length wouldn't be any longer than current K1. But retracted length in 9900-Q10 range might also be possible. The ability to solidly grasp compact 9900 contributes significantly to it's famed typing experience...

    I see no way TCL's glass oriented folks would ever conceive of such a keyboard prioritized approach but... Fun to fantasize... Lol
    01-29-18 07:34 PM
  21. DamianWarS's Avatar
    Ah, I see... At least a step in the direction. . Now, if they'd reverse the concept and slide the lower half of the screen behind the keyboard, they'd preserve shortcut & speed dial availability while providing a compact handset for typing. If that makes sense. I'd MUCH rather type on a 4" tall handset than the k1 or Priv. Imo.

    Using K1 screen and keyboard dimensions, it's also possible that the extended length wouldn't be any longer than current K1. But retracted length in 9900-Q10 range might also be possible. The ability to solidly grasp compact 9900 contributes significantly to it's famed typing experience...

    I see no way TCL's glass oriented folks would ever conceive of such a keyboard prioritized approach but... Fun to fantasize... Lol
    TCL has access to BlackBerry's big book of patents so who knows what they will do with them

    Posted via CB10
    01-30-18 08:50 AM
  22. conite's Avatar
    TCL has access to BlackBerry's big book of patents so who knows what they will do with them

    Posted via CB10
    They have access as much as I do, or anyone else willing to pay.
    01-30-18 09:58 AM
  23. DamianWarS's Avatar
    They have access as much as I do, or anyone else willing to pay.
    Since they have already paid then they get the keys. You and I are free to do the same but I don't think either of us has those keys. Their access is immediately not just theoretical.

    Posted via CB10
    01-30-18 10:04 AM
  24. conite's Avatar
    Since they have already paid then they get the keys. You and I are free to do the same but I don't think either of us has those keys. Their access is immediately not just theoretical.

    Posted via CB10
    They don't have access to BlackBerry's patent portfolio - just the design they have.
    01-30-18 10:23 AM
  25. DamianWarS's Avatar
    They don't have access to BlackBerry's patent portfolio - just the design they have.
    Perhaps not the entire thing but it would seem some are available, we know at the very least those that the KEYᵒⁿᵉ would be infringing upon, such as the capacitive keyboard or the keyboard itself. I'm guessing the actual amount available to them is far greater than these 2 unless you're thinking it's more of an à la carte menu.

    Posted via CB10
    Last edited by DamianWarS; 01-30-18 at 01:51 PM.
    01-30-18 01:13 PM
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